|
Proud Rat Mom posted:No I believe the horribleness of the school, just this account of it seems fake. The stories surrounding it are written in true stdh fashion. 
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2020 22:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 7, 2024 06:47 |
|
|
Crowsbeak posted:I thought this was going to be about the Elan school of thought in warfare. Same.  TheAardvark posted:Is anyone else loving terrified of The Corner? I would absolutely rather take a fight club with multiple bigger dudes than the prospect of being put in solitary confinement with only a chair for months. Jesus christ. Somewhere on this forum is a post I will not find because I never want to read it again. I'll just say that this corner for months torture is not limited to elan programs. I read about a parent home schooling their kid and doing the same thing. It may or may not have been a cross post from r/raisedbynarcissists but like I said, I ain't finding it again. The abuse of children is just so shockingly common.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 00:50
|
|
|
Proud Rat Mom posted:No I believe the horribleness of the school, just this account of it seems fake. The stories surrounding it are written in true stdh fashion. It may have some creative licence, but consider the following: A lot of holocaust survivor stories sound implausible because of survivor bias. Their stories are outrageous because the 99% who had far more believable stories couldn't tell them, because they were dead. It may be a similar phenomenon for this type of thing, though I will freely admit that human memory is shithouse, especially after a few years from the incident, and especially if the incident is traumatic.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 00:54
|
|
|
I have a whole long history with mental health and my family, and a lot of it is stuff I am still sorting out but I do know one thing - When I was in middle school, a guidance counselor got annoyed at my mother advocating for me. She super nicely threatened to have me institutionalized with kids who had what she called 'real' problems. My mother was the editor of the local newspaper in the middle of bumfuck nowhere that we lived and did not take that well. Her response was to super nicely tell the guidance counselor to gently caress right off and that if she tried it she would have a lot more issues than just an annoying parent. I have a lot of problems with my mother, will probably until the day I die, but that moment could have changed the entire course of my life if she didn't have the backbone to do what she did. Sometimes the mental health system™ can put you at risk even without your parents being complicit. Sticking up for your kids involves having some steel huevos in your back pocket and for a lot of parents that is just  Elan is a systematic issue that has come about in part on the back of bad infrastructure, but also on the backs of people who would really just rather give their $$ to make it all go away. I wish we had some better support structure in both the MH system and also for parents who don't know WTF they are doing and aren't as savvy as mine were that ONE time that it mattered for them to be. I think about how different my life could have been in that moment sometime. And I worry about the people who weren't as lucky as I was. Also, my folks still live in that small town. I see that guidance counselor every once in a looong while when I'm visiting my parents. I treat her in public like what she really is. A piece of poo poo who thinks it's okay to play with the lives of children for her own convenience. I encourage you all who have had run ins with people like that to do the same. If it isn't socially acceptable to flex your "power" like that, maybe that then can stand as a deterrent to others. Sunlight can be a powerful disinfectant.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 00:55
|
|
|
All people running it up to its closure should face criminal charges. Parents who send their kids there knowing what it is should also face criminal charges.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 00:59
|
|
|
What leads a parent to decide this sort of thing is even remotely ok? I can't even get my head around the idea of shipping kids away to boarding school, let alone North Korea mk2.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 01:01
|
|
|
Tree Bucket posted:What leads a parent to decide this sort of thing is even remotely ok? I can't even get my head around the idea of shipping kids away to boarding school, let alone North Korea mk2. Being a piece of poo poo person.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 01:02
|
|
|
Being gullible too. Being told this is the only thing that can help by a Real Mental Health Professional who is either getting kickbacks, or a sadist, or doesn't give a poo poo or some combination of those. Imagine being at the end of your rope and having someone who seems competent and calm throwing you a rope to the land where everything is handled. I'm not excusing all parents - in fact, being gullible and at the end of your rope can be just as damning as being an rear end in a top hat who doesn't want to deal with it, or a parent who sincerely doesn't give a gently caress. I'm just saying part of the problem is how institutional this is - how for years all of this gets normalized to the point where people who go through this struggle to get others to believe them. Where there are whole companies who abduct teens to take them to facilities and no one bats an eye at it. It isn't hard to get swept along with that current if you're the average american dumbass. And then there's always the sunk cost fallacy for when you start having second thoughts.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 01:24
|
|
|
Im not really confident that a kid knifing people who come to take him in the night would actually see the charges go through, especially if they are woken up by someone unknown physically touching them. Especially if the kid was white. It would be a media circus and would suck for every party involved. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Feb 13, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 01:26
|
|
|
Telsa Cola posted:Im not really confident that a kid knifing people who come to take him in the night would actually see the charges go through, especially if they are woken uo by someone unknown physically touching them. I'm pretty sure the parents would be liable in that case since they gave the okay to the kidnapping company.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 01:28
|
|
|
Literally A Person posted:I'm pretty sure the parents would be liable in that case since they gave the okay to the kidnapping company. Probably, and would also boil down to if they informed the kid or not.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 01:30
|
|
|
Telsa Cola posted:Probably, and would also boil down to if they informed the kid or not. Which I would figure you don't tell your teen when you pay someone to kidnap them in the dead of night.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 01:30
|
|
|
Tree Bucket posted:What leads a parent to decide this sort of thing is even remotely ok? I can't even get my head around the idea of shipping kids away to boarding school, let alone North Korea mk2. he said it in the comic, people hear what they want to hear. the way he described his speech and their reactions is pretty classic behavior, on the parents part, of authoritarian thought. they don't actually care about his well being or him as a person, they keep repeating what they really care about is what their neighbors think, just the perception from others of their household. this is sadly a symptom of a much greater problem that has been growing since the 70's, thus why the "school" wasn't shut down till recently, and even then that was after a very lengthy process that started in the 90's.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 01:32
|
|
|
Literally A Person posted:Which I would figure you don't tell your teen when you pay someone to kidnap them in the dead of night. In that passage posted before they made it clear that these abductions are ambushes in every sense of the word. Often taking place in the middle of the night, or if not, then at some point when the kid is in a compromised position where they won't be able to fight back or make a scene. It's like planning to trap an animal, observing its habits to find the most efficacious strategy and hit it when its most vulnerable
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 01:42
|
|
|
Play posted:In that passage posted before they made it clear that these abductions are ambushes in every sense of the word. Often taking place in the middle of the night, or if not, then at some point when the kid is in a compromised position where they won't be able to fight back or make a scene. Yeah IANAL but im sure the defence would have a field day going through their protocols for this type of stuff.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 01:46
|
|
|
Sweet God. The more we talk about this the more I want to personally find some of these fuckers.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 02:14
|
|
|
Literally A Person posted:Sweet God. The more we talk about this the more I want to personally find some of these fuckers. Yea this was horribly upsetting and it loving sucks nobody has been held accountable for this. God drat.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 02:34
|
|
|
AF posted:Yea this was horribly upsetting and it loving sucks nobody has been held accountable for this. God drat. I just really haven't ever had such a visceral reaction to some dumb thing I read on the internet. This is like an affront to some part of me that I didn't know could be affronted.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 02:35
|
|
|
Telebite posted:All people running it up to its closure should face criminal charges. Parents who send their kids there knowing what it is should also face criminal charges. One of the more chilling details in the comic is that a number of the people working at Elan were alumni (for lack of a better word...former victims?). That's where it really turns cult-like.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 02:41
|
|
Literally A Person posted:Sweet God. The more we talk about this the more I want to personally find some of these fuckers. Then you can complete the circle of violence and become the master. Sadly despite not knowing much and life being hard, we've decided to make it harder. It does seem to generally be improving in the big picture, but damned if it doesn't feel like we're perpetually moving backwards.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 04:06
|
|
|
HelloIAmYourHeart posted:Tiffany's will barred her family from collecting her body or coming to her memorial service and honestly I do not blame her. Someone recommended one of David's books (maybe irl, maybe Book Barn) and it starts with that essay about her suicide. I couldn't even finish that. It came across as he and Amy still believing all their bullying was hilarious, it was disgusting. loving assholes, both of them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 04:45
|
|
|
This poo poo makes me so mad that I become a hipocrit. I start daydreaming randomly during the day of these parents, and David Sedaris, getting woken up in the night and treated to even just a couple weeks of this poo poo. I don't condone torture, but I can't stop fantasizing about making these torturers get a taste of their own medicine.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 05:45
|
|
|
xcheopis posted:Someone recommended one of David's books (maybe irl, maybe Book Barn) and it starts with that essay about her suicide. I couldn't even finish that. It came across as he and Amy still believing all their bullying was hilarious, it was disgusting. loving assholes, both of them. Oh, so you missed the story when she tried to reconnect with him at one of his speaking events and he called security on her. He wasn't responsible for sending her away, but that was damning.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 05:51
|
|
|
all these parents should really be executed
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 05:55
|
|
|
derra posted:Oh, so you missed the story when she tried to reconnect with him at one of his speaking events and he called security on her. Ugh.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 06:02
|
|
|
derra posted:Oh, so you missed the story when she tried to reconnect with him at one of his speaking events and he called security on her. Wtf is wrong with this dude
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 07:13
|
|
|
I won’t lie, rethinking Amy Sedaris’ career with the lens of what happened with her sister, yikes on bikes. Not that she should be responsible for her sister and her lovely parents but loving hell, don’t make me rewatch Bojack and somehow feel even more grimmer.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 07:19
|
|
|
Crowsbeak posted:I thought this was going to be about the Elan school of thought in warfare. Same. I thought "finally, the cult of the offense will be brought to heel" but no someone decided to name their school after a concept that got millions of young people cut to pieces by machine gun fire and artillery shrapnel. Sort of appropriate I guess.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 07:22
|
|
|
Proud Rat Mom posted:No I believe the horribleness of the school, just this account of it seems fake. The stories surrounding it are written in true stdh fashion. I once meet someone who was groomed into being a teenage/adult human trafficked sex slave. I initially felt the same way about some of the things she said. So when I hear a story about some really hosed up poo poo happening to someone I tend to believe them. The author did say that he was worried that the former staff might try to retaliate agasnt him and his family. So obfuscating parts of his story might be a way of keeping them from connecting the dots. "Oh yeah, I remember when that kid got away by pepper spraying his guard and got to NYC. His name was John Nobody, let's go find him."
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 16:32
|
|
|
TheAardvark posted:This poo poo makes me so mad that I become a hipocrit. I start daydreaming randomly during the day of these parents, and David Sedaris, getting woken up in the night and treated to even just a couple weeks of this poo poo. I don't condone torture, but I can't stop fantasizing about making these torturers get a taste of their own medicine. I mean, it got Christopher Hitchens of all people to change his mind about waterboarding, but he willingly had someone do it to him.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 20:04
|
|
|
Tree Bucket posted:What leads a parent to decide this sort of thing is even remotely ok? I can't even get my head around the idea of shipping kids away to boarding school, let alone North Korea mk2. Shame. Guilt. Helplessness.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2020 20:29
|
|
|
derra posted:Oh, so you missed the story when she tried to reconnect with him at one of his speaking events and he called security on her. So I thought you were exaggerating but holy poo poo this guy: quote:Sedaris recalls that the last time he saw Tiffany was at the stage door of the Symphony Hall in Boston. He’d just finished a show and she called out to him. Their relationship was so strained at that point that they hadn’t spoken in four years. The reader expects some kind of reconciliation, but instead Sedaris coolly instructs a security guard to close the door on the woman. He writes: gently caress this guy
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2020 06:48
|
|
|
I remember reading about a similar thing 15 years ago. It was a reform school based in Jamaica called Tranquility Bay. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tranquility_Bay Imagine spending a college tuition every year so someone can torture your kid and you don't have to be a parent. skooma512 fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Feb 14, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2020 23:42
|
|
|
America is just a Nazi Germany that got away with it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2020 02:10
|
|
|
I went through some weird Christian poo poo for a lot of my childhood thanks to my parents, camps where we were told at 13 that if we “looked at girls with lust it was because demons had come into us” and all that sort of fantastic, headfucking poo poo that makes for a great, well rounded young teenager. We (I) were told about these Elan style things because obviously there was a big American evangelist connection, and I always genuinely wondered how, given the Americans availability to guns, they didn’t shoot more of these abducting motherfuckers. Does anybody have any good schadenfreude of someone coming to “collect” someone then getting guilt-free sent directly to Jesus?
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2020 02:11
|
|
|
Jesus christ, I did not anticipate being beyond furious tonight
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2020 02:46
|
|
|
EvenWorseOpinions posted:Jesus christ, I did not anticipate being beyond furious tonight Right!?
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2020 03:26
|
|
|
this thread certainly puts into perspective any misgivings i had about how i was raised
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2020 03:33
|
|
|
That David Sedaris story reminds me of JFK's sister who was icepick lobotomied because she was not performing as well as her siblings by her psychopath dad.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2020 03:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 7, 2024 06:47 |
|
|
Animal-Mother posted:America is just a Nazi Germany that got away with it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2020 05:49
|
|
