Forensic Files II

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best true crime
	Forensic Files (pick this one)
	Forensic Files II
	Judge Judy
	Goku and a pig with giant balls solve crimes

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

Forensic Files is the best true crime show, if you think it is something else you are wrong. It is a great show and we had a good thread on it on awhile back.

This past weekend Forensic Files II debuted and while it sort of has the same feel they got a new narrator (the old guy died in 2016 :rip:

) that tries to mimic the delivery of the old one and it's just not working for me. It probably doesn't help that right before watching the new show I watched the old show so the correct narrator was fresh in my mind. I don't know if they told the new guy to try to sound like Peter Thomas or if it's something he did on his own but they need to cut it out and just let the new guy develop his own style.

Anyone else watch the new one and feel the same way?

# ? Feb 26, 2020 16:18

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# ? May 13, 2024 08:24

Rod Hoofhearted: Jun 18, 2000; I am a ghost

It's great fun watching old Forensic Files episodes from the 2000s and being like, "yep, that junk science they used to convict that guy is now debunked! And that one! And that one, too!"

It's really super cool how the Obama administration just started looking into all these bullshit fake-science things cops and DAs had been using to railroad people, and then Jeff Sessions came in and shut all that down.

So in a word, gently caress Forensic Files. It's pro-cop authoritarian propaganda.

# ? Feb 26, 2020 16:24

Good soup!: Nov 2, 2010

I've been meaning to do a supercut of all the ridiculous murder weapons people have used, like that one guy who murdered the real estate agent (iirc) with a giant loving exhaust pipe from a motorcycle or some poo poo. Just had it lying around I guess

# ? Feb 26, 2020 16:27

Zeluth: May 12, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Comcast hosed me with ID Discovery. I just wanted to bitch. At least, I still have A&E.

# ? Feb 26, 2020 16:35

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

Zeluth posted:

Comcast hosed me with ID Discovery. I just wanted to bitch. At least, I still have A&E.

Isn't there another channel that is exactly like ID? it's not A&E, I know I have it on my cable but I can't think of the name of it. I like Homicide Hunter so losing ID would suck.

# ? Feb 26, 2020 16:37

Colonel Cancer: Sep 26, 2015; Tune into the fireplace channel, you absolute buffoon

LabyaMynora posted:

It's great fun watching old Forensic Files episodes from the 2000s and being like, "yep, that junk science they used to convict that guy is now debunked! And that one! And that one, too!"

It's really super cool how the Obama administration just started looking into all these bullshit fake-science things cops and DAs had been using to railroad people, and then Jeff Sessions came in and shut all that down.

So in a word, gently caress Forensic Files. It's pro-cop authoritarian propaganda.

# ? Feb 26, 2020 16:40

Rad-daddio: Apr 25, 2017

LabyaMynora posted:

It's great fun watching old Forensic Files episodes from the 2000s and being like, "yep, that junk science they used to convict that guy is now debunked! And that one! And that one, too!"

It's really super cool how the Obama administration just started looking into all these bullshit fake-science things cops and DAs had been using to railroad people, and then Jeff Sessions came in and shut all that down.

So in a word, gently caress Forensic Files. It's pro-cop authoritarian propaganda.

Do you have any specific examples? This is the first time I've heard of this.

# ? Feb 26, 2020 16:44

Necros: Jul 23, 2003

Oh cool there are new ones? I think I've seen all the old ones a hundred times each. It's all I watch whenever I'm having surgery or whatever. It's really calming and I have no idea why cuz the dudes voice is hella creepy.

# ? Feb 26, 2020 16:45

SilvergunSuperman: Aug 7, 2010

I love the inflection he gives certain things.

"They found traces of onion in his hash brown potatoes."

# ? Feb 26, 2020 16:49

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

SilvergunSuperman posted:

I love the inflection he gives certain things.

"They found traces of onion in his hash brown potatoes."

Watch one of the new ones and tell me the new guy wasn't told "try your hardest to sound like Peter Thomas"

# ? Feb 26, 2020 16:51

sweet thursday: Sep 16, 2012

My favourites are when it's really obvious who did it but they have to work up the drama anyway.

Was it the escaped serial killer found wearing the victim's skin with "I did it" written across the wall in blood?

~~~

Yes.

# ? Feb 26, 2020 16:51

Rod Hoofhearted: Jun 18, 2000; I am a ghost

Rad-daddio posted:

Do you have any specific examples? This is the first time I've heard of this.

I googled for something that's not conspiracy theory and found this LA Times article if that works for you. Otherwise just search "bad forensic science" and stick to the reputable sources.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-humes-forensic-evidence-20190113-story.html

But I know specifically that there was a guy who presented himself as a "Bite marks expert" for years and years, and people went to jail based on his testimony. However, his techniques were found to be wrong by real scientists to the point that he put out a statement saying, "I no longer believe that bite mark analysis is legitimate."

I tried searching for him but kept hitting paywalled articles, so here's a wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_dentistry#Bite_mark_analysis

# ? Feb 26, 2020 16:56

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

LabyaMynora posted:

I googled for something that's not conspiracy theory and found this LA Times article if that works for you. Otherwise just search "bad forensic science" and stick to the reputable sources.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-humes-forensic-evidence-20190113-story.html

But I know specifically that there was a guy who presented himself as a "Bite marks expert" for years and years, and people went to jail based on his testimony. However, his techniques were found to be wrong by real scientists to the point that he put out a statement saying, "I no longer believe that bite mark analysis is legitimate."

I tried searching for him but kept hitting paywalled articles, so here's a wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_dentistry#Bite_mark_analysis

So which episodes of Forensic Files were wrong?

# ? Feb 26, 2020 16:57

Ginette Reno: Nov 18, 2006; How Doers get more done; Fun Shoe

I don't advocate for junk science and if people got wrongly convicted using it that's hosed up but having said that I enjoy Forensic Files because it's a good show to have in the background while working or doing something else. They assume you can't remember anything and remind you after every commercial break what's going on. And Peter Thomas has a great voice. I haven't seen the new ones yet but I'm sure I will.

# ? Feb 26, 2020 17:04

Chumbawumba4ever97: Dec 31, 2000; by Fluffdaddy

big nipples big life posted:

So which episodes of Forensic Files were wrong?

I know it's not really what you are asking but there's around 5 episodes of Forensic Files where the person was later exonerated. I believe FilmRise pulled them from Youtube at some point. The only one I remember off the top of my head was the doctor who had a gay lover; years later they found out the witness lied.

sweet thursday posted:

My favourites are when it's really obvious who did it but they have to work up the drama anyway.

Was it the escaped serial killer found wearing the victim's skin with "I did it" written across the wall in blood?

~~~

Yes.

My favorite is when they make it look like it was extremely difficult to solve, and they're doing everything possible like taking a eyelash fiber from a rug and other things, and then with 3 minutes left in the episode they also mention there was video of the guy doing it.

# ? Feb 26, 2020 17:05

JK Fresco: Jul 5, 2019

big nipples big life posted:

So which episodes of Forensic Files were wrong?

None of them

# ? Feb 26, 2020 17:06

Mr. Fall Down Terror: Jan 24, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

big nipples big life posted:

So which episodes of Forensic Files were wrong?

the episodes accurately depict the events and court cases of the time, but there's no system by which individual episodes where the persons portrayed as guilty (at the time) would later be exonerated. so the show can't be any wronger that the court system is

this episode has the wrong guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovryUSVvm9U

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Alexander_(exonerated_convict)

this episode also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aMYUS3Mekw

https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/casedetail.aspx?caseid=4238

# ? Feb 26, 2020 17:09

Rod Hoofhearted: Jun 18, 2000; I am a ghost

big nipples big life posted:

So which episodes of Forensic Files were wrong?

Yes, yes, let me compile a thoroughly researched list of all the season and episode numbers of which episodes contain example of junk science for you, OP.

I'll get right on that.

...

I'm totally doing that right now.

...

Totally.

:jerkbag:

I'll meet you halfway and pull some quotes form the LA Times article I linked.

quote:

Welcome to the real world of forensics, where the wizardry lionized by the �CSI� television empire turns out to have serious flaws. The science of bite-mark comparisons, ballistic comparisons, fingerprint matching, blood-spatter analysis, arson investigation and other common forensic techniques has been tainted by systematic error, cognitive bias (sometimes called �tunnel vision�) and little or no research or data to support it. There is, in short, very little science behind some of the forensic �sciences� used in court to imprison and sometimes execute people.

...

The rigorously researched and peer-reviewed newcomer to forensics, DNA matching, has thrown into sharp relief the lack of scientific rigor in many other forensic disciplines. According to data gathered by the National Registry of Exonerations, of the 2,363 inmates exonerated of murder or other serious felonies since 1989 (most commonly through DNA), 553 were convicted with flawed or misleading forensic evidence�nearly one out of four.

Forensic science�s shortcomings have left the justice system alternately in a quiet panic or massive denial. The issue was first brought into the spotlight by a highly critical report from the National Academy of Sciences in 2009, which found a dearth of scientific backing for most forensics methods other than DNA. It cited evidence that �faulty forensic science analyses may have contributed to wrongful convictions of innocent people.� That report was followed by an even more blistering presidential commission report in 2016, which found serious errors and junk science in a host of commonly used forensic methods tying suspects to crimes.

Even the seeming infallibility of fingerprint evidence took a big hit. Multiple experts at the FBI�s vaunted Latent Print Unit incorrectly matched a Portland, Ore., attorney to prints found at the scene of the 2004 Madrid train station bombing. The prints actually belonged to an Algerian terrorist. A form of cognitive bias � finding what you expect to find� has been blamed because the FBI examiners had received extraneous information about the lawyer converting to Islam, and they were also told that a respected senior agent had already declared a match.

Closer to home, the murder conviction of Bill Richards of Mojave led the California Legislature to confront the problem of junk science in the courtroom � but only after an innocent man served 22 years in prison for supposedly killing his wife. After two hung juries failed to convict Richards, prosecutors found a bite-pattern expert who tilted the scales by matching a mark on the victim�s hand to Richards� crooked teeth. Years later, attorneys at the California Innocence Project based in San Diego requested testing of samples from the murder weapon, which uncovered DNA that did not belong to either Richards or his wife. The expert recanted and admitted there was no scientific basis for any of his bite-mark findings in the case. But Richards� release was delayed for eight years after prosecutors argued successfully that only factual testimony, not expert opinions, can be false evidence under California law. It took new legislation to change the definition of false evidence to include disproven or recanted expert opinions before Richards walked out of prison in 2016.

...

Whatever the outcome of the Parks case, it is one of many demonstrating the profound difficulty the justice system has in separating good science from bad. The National Academy of Sciences has suggested raising the bar for expert testimony by requiring hard data and error rates for all forensic disciplines.

Right now the bar is shockingly low. One expert in the recent Parks hearing testified that his analysis of door hinges showed that she had barricaded her child in a closet, using a technique he had never attempted before and for which he cited no scientific data. This lack of scientific rigor in the courtroom has to change.

A commission formed by President Obama to study solutions to flawed forensics was disbanded by the Trump administration. It may be time for the states, individually or in partnership, to undertake this effort. The stakes are too high to maintain the status quo.

# ? Feb 26, 2020 17:09

Necros: Jul 23, 2003

big nipples big life posted:

So which episodes of Forensic Files were wrong?

I've seen several of the cases in other Netflix series about wrongful convictions. Like there is one episode called A Novel Idea (s11ep22) where a dude says his wife fell down the stairs or something and forensic files shows he's convicted of murder, but then theres a documentary on Netflix called The Staircase about it where he is eventually released via an alford plea. There are a few like that where expert testimony was kinda terrible.

# ? Feb 26, 2020 17:11

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

Since the first post I have been trying to find episodes where they said someone was guilty and it was overturned. There were shows where the episode was about getting a conviction overturned. There was Michael Peterson who eventually got a new trial and ended up ~~back in jail~~ still convicted of killing his wife but out on time served. Apparently the people who wanted that Beyonce photo removed from the internet should have hired Forensic Files production company because they have scrubbed all talk of the wrong episodes form the internet.

big nipples big life fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Feb 26, 2020

# ? Feb 26, 2020 17:11

Rad-daddio: Apr 25, 2017

Chumbawumba4ever97 posted:

I know it's not really what you are asking but there's around 5 episodes of Forensic Files where the person was later exonerated. I believe FilmRise pulled them from Youtube at some point. The only one I remember off the top of my head was the doctor who had a gay lover; years later they found out the witness lied.

My favorite is when they make it look like it was extremely difficult to solve, and they're doing everything possible like taking a eyelash fiber from a rug and other things, and then with 3 minutes left in the episode they also mention there was video of the guy doing it.

It would be kind of neat if they went back and covered the ones who got exonerated.

# ? Feb 26, 2020 17:11

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

LabyaMynora posted:

Yes, yes, let me compile a thoroughly researched list of all the season and episode numbers of which episodes contain example of junk science for you, OP.

I'll get right on that.

...

I'm totally doing that right now.

...

Totally.

I'll meet you halfway and pull some quotes form the LA Times article I linked.

ctrl+f "Forensic Files"

I see...

# ? Feb 26, 2020 17:13

Mr. Fall Down Terror: Jan 24, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

Rad-daddio posted:

It would be kind of neat if they went back and covered the ones who got exonerated.

they do sometimes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Rnv-aAlIQ

# ? Feb 26, 2020 17:17

Fox Mulner: Feb 25, 2001; No wonder this clown died, his lungs were filled with CANDY!

big nipples big life posted:

Since the first post I have been trying to find episodes where they said someone was guilty and it was overturned. There were shows where the episode was about getting a conviction overturned. There was Michael Peterson who eventually got a new trial and ended up back in jail but apparently the people who wanted that Beyonce photo removed from the internet should have hired Forensic Files production company because they have scrubbed all talk of the wrong episodes form the internet.

That is the only one I can think of but MIchael didn't end up back in jail. He made an Alford plea and already served longer than what the new sentence was.

# ? Feb 26, 2020 17:20

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

Oh right, he was still convicted of killing his wife though.

# ? Feb 26, 2020 17:21

JK Fresco: Jul 5, 2019

I blame the cops for criminalizing what is a private matter between man and wife

# ? Feb 26, 2020 17:23

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

Holy hell that was a popular case for true crime tv:

quote:

Television productions about the case

The Staircase, a French miniseries which got new episodes through Netflix
"A Novel Idea" Forensic Files
"Debut" Cold Case
"Written in Blood" The New Detectives
"Blood on the Staircase" American Justice
"Murder, He Wrote" Dominick Dunne's Power, Privilege, and Justice
"Staircase Killer" True Crime with Aphrodite Jones
"Stairway to Hell" The Devil You Know
"Reversal of Fortune" Dateline NBC
"Death on the Staircase" Storyville
"The Staircase II: The Last Chance" Storyville
"Down the Back Staircase" Dateline NBC
�Trial and Error� Season One - Loosely based

# ? Feb 26, 2020 17:24

Colonel Cancer: Sep 26, 2015; Tune into the fireplace channel, you absolute buffoon

"She was not Protected", somethingawful.com

# ? Feb 26, 2020 18:11

Zeluth: May 12, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

big nipples big life posted:

Isn't there another channel that is exactly like ID? it's not A&E, I know I have it on my cable but I can't think of the name of it. I like Homicide Hunter so losing ID would suck.

TLC for the foot fetishes and popping the cysts and what not. Quality programming. Unlike, Botched because I do not like the hosts. They do good repairs so yay for their patients.

# ? Feb 26, 2020 18:18

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

Zeluth posted:

TLC for the foot fetishes and popping the cysts and what not. Quality programming. Unlike, Botched because I do not like the hosts. They do good repairs so yay for their patients.

No I mean another all true crime all the time channel. Watching TLC is a crime against yourself.

# ? Feb 26, 2020 18:20

Zeluth: May 12, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

big nipples big life posted:

No I mean another all true crime all the time channel. Watching TLC is a crime against yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgY7Ug7WiqA

# ? Feb 26, 2020 18:23

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

Found it, the other channel on my cable is the Crime & Investigation channel but it shows stuff like 24 and Nash Bridges along with true crime stuff like First 48. So it's sort of like ID but not quite.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_%26_Investigation

# ? Feb 26, 2020 18:36

Colonel Cancer: Sep 26, 2015; Tune into the fireplace channel, you absolute buffoon

Is there some way to combine forensic files with squatch huntan and UFO wrasslin?

# ? Feb 26, 2020 18:38

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

forensic squatchin?

what about forensic luking?

# ? Feb 26, 2020 18:38

RC and Moon Pie: May 5, 2011

The new Forensic Files needs to work on pacing. In both episodes aired so far, they get to the trial with about three minutes to go and rush through the coverage.

The show is continuing the previous one's legacy of being cheap as hell. The first new episode showed the same photograph of the guy about 27,000 times during the 30 minutes.

# ? Feb 26, 2020 18:46

a dmc delorean: Jul 2, 2006; Live the dream

LabyaMynora posted:

But I know specifically that there was a guy who presented himself as a "Bite marks expert" for years and years, and people went to jail based on his testimony. However, his techniques were found to be wrong by real scientists to the point that he put out a statement saying, "I no longer believe that bite mark analysis is legitimate."

Wasn't there an episode where a snaggle tooth guy was wrongfully convicted but then years later they got him to bite into a polystyrene cup and realised it wasn't him or something?

Then they found the real killer through actual forensic investigation? (all in the same episode)

# ? Feb 26, 2020 19:32

sweet thursday: Sep 16, 2012

[...] and he finally discovered the identity of the roommate who had been leaving sticky poo poo residue in his private bathroom.

How?

~~☆Forensics☆~~

# ? Feb 26, 2020 19:47