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tarbrush posted:The nfl season will be fine, your kleptocrat overlords are going to get a million people killed, but they'll all be dead by September October is when this starts flaring back up again
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Apr 1, 2020 15:18
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Ehud posted:We half-assed a tank job, went 5-11 and ended up in a position where we'll probably have to give up a considerable amount of draft assets to get a good QB. He's developed a multitude of players and coaches, he's attracted both premium and cheap free agents, players generally like playing for him and he won five games with a sub replacement level roster. Against that, he was a poo poo to Kenny Stills and might hypothetically draft Herbert.
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Apr 1, 2020 15:21
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FizFashizzle posted:if the season doesn't happen (which it won't) what happens with the 2021 draft order? NFL rule is based on years removed from the high school graduating class, isn't it? So it should definitely count regardless of whether they play any NCAA games. I imagine people like Lawrence will bail, but it will be interesting to see who else goes since guys tend to develop later in football. If this happened in the 2019 season, Burrow would have been a third rounder instead of first overall.
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Apr 1, 2020 15:21
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If the fins had successfully tanked they would be in such an amazing position right now.
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Apr 1, 2020 15:27
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tarbrush posted:He's developed a multitude of players and coaches, he's attracted both premium and cheap free agents, players generally like playing for him and he won five games with a sub replacement level roster. Against that, he was a poo poo to Kenny Stills and might hypothetically draft Herbert. "I came here to play for coach X" is the most tired cliche that free agents say when they sign somewhere new. I don't put any stock in that. I have no idea how to do the measurements on crediting Flores with developing a "multitude" of players and coaches. I have no idea how good any of these guys would be playing anywhere else. And I really have no idea how you measure how well Flores developed a coach? I'm a jaded, old Dolphins fan. I'm not going to get excited about a coaching staff or front office until we put together two consecutive good seasons of football, which has not happened in like two decades.
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Apr 1, 2020 15:31
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Ehud posted:Why are you skeptical of Burrow? One year wonder, only looked good when surrounded by a stacked team
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Apr 1, 2020 15:41
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Yeah I think I'm a bit of the mind that if I were Miami I wouldn't give up everything for Burrow, especially when I could reasonably get Tua for a lot less. The track record for first-round QBs the past five or six years hasn't been that great, especially those drafted within the first five picks.
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Apr 1, 2020 15:46
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https://twitter.com/danielrpopper/status/1245071397392502784?s=19 Yikes
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Apr 1, 2020 16:08
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Ehud posted:I think we're gonna end up drafting Herbert because we're a stupid, lovely franchise tarbrush posted:I would be flabbergasted if they did this. I think they're much more likely to white-knuckle it at five and pick whichever of Tua or Herbert drops. If neither drops I can see them going on tilt and doing something weird. I really really don’t see them drafting Herbert. There’s more smoke in the Love camp than Herbert camp. I guess the interviews with Flores and Grier did not go well with Herbert It’d be amazing to see them actually understand you don’t go all in for ONE shot because of job pressure
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Apr 1, 2020 16:22
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Ehud posted:"I came here to play for coach X" is the most tired cliche that free agents say when they sign somewhere new. I don't put any stock in that. He also developed a pro bowl level player right out of town.
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Apr 1, 2020 16:24
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PERPETUAL IDIOT posted:He also developed a pro bowl level player right out of town. He's pulling the same bullshit in Pittsburgh. I'm not saying that Flores is the second coming or anything, I'm just saying that right at the moment he's in credit, not on his final warning.
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Apr 1, 2020 16:30
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Ehud posted:Why are you skeptical of Burrow? All the same reasons that have been beaten to death already. (also tiny hands) kidding We'll see how he turns out, maybe he really is that good
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Apr 1, 2020 16:48
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We saw him develop two guys this year alone, which is a hell of a lot more than you can ever say for Philbin or Gase. And the word around the agent realm is guys were legitimately looking at Miami as a preferred destination partly because of what Flores got out of his guys. If you’re a backup / fringe starter who knows you can do better, you pick the hot team and hope for the big 3rd deal. I have a lot of faith in Flores, but the mass exodus of coaches gave a lot of people (rightful) pause. After seeing and hearing the full explanations of everyone leaving you kinda see a situation that looks good for Miami, not bad. Ultimately this all means nothing if we don’t find a QB tho! Amy Pole Her fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Apr 1, 2020 |
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Apr 1, 2020 16:49
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fsif posted:Yeah I think I'm a bit of the mind that if I were Miami I wouldn't give up everything for Burrow, especially when I could reasonably get Tua for a lot less. The track record for first-round QBs the past five or six years hasn't been that great, especially those drafted within the first five picks. All of the best quarterbacks recently have come from the first round in that time, basically. Jackson, Mahomes, Murray, Wentz, Goff, Mariota, Winston, Mayfield/Darnold/Allen. Now those guys aren't all worldbeaters but most have been solid and most importantly there was nothing really better outside of the first round. Honestly in order to find a draft where later quarterbacks performed better than earlier ones you have to go back to 2014, when Bortles, Manziel and Bridgewater went in the first followed by Garoppolo and Carr in the second, who have probably proved themselves the best QBs in that group. Still, it's pretty rare, usually if you are finding a franchise quarterback you are finding him in the first round, and often you are paying quite a bit to put yourself in that position to get him, it's just how it is. Refusing to gamble won't get you any further, generally. I'll go on record saying that I think Burrow will be a good quarterback, he has attributes I value most highly in prospects (processing, accuracy, footwork, calm under pressure, can navigate the pocket, etc.) and some of those attributes are straight up elite to a level you rarely see in college players. He is absolutely an NFL-ready quarterback, and a better prospect (imo) than other recent first round picks like Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield. Whether he succeeds on the Bengals is another question entirely, but in my mind there is no question Burrow is the class of the field (followed very closely by Tua) and any team would be lucky to be in a position to draft him.
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Apr 1, 2020 17:12
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How much did Washington give up to move up to take RG3?
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Apr 1, 2020 17:52
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:How much did Washington give up to move up to take RG3? 3 firsts and a 2nd I think
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Apr 1, 2020 17:53
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:How much did Washington give up to move up to take RG3? 2012, 2013, and 2014 1st rounders, as well as the 2012 2nd rounder
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Apr 1, 2020 17:54
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It looked good for Washington until his knee got destroyed
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Apr 1, 2020 17:56
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Better Than You posted:It looked good for Washington until his knee got destroyed Yeah, it did. Although it took time for St. Louis to really see the benefit. With the extra picks the Rams got Michael Brockers, Janoris Jenkins, Alex Ogletree, and Greg Robinson (oof). Of course, when they took Robinson at #2 they also got Aaron Donald with their own pick at #13 sooooo These things can work out, I'm guessing the Falcons didn't regret the haul they gave up to draft Julio.
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Apr 1, 2020 18:06
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Play posted:All of the best quarterbacks recently have come from the first round in that time, basically. Jackson, Mahomes, Murray, Wentz, Goff, Mariota, Winston, Mayfield/Darnold/Allen. You wouldn't want to give up a huge bounty for half of those quarterbacks, though. You definitely would for Mahomes, Jackson, and Watson (none of which were drafted in the top 5!), a maybe for Murray and Wentz, and a doubtful/definitely not for Goff, Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Winston, and Mariota. Combine those with the obvious duds and a couple other "probably not"s (Paxton Lynch, Trubisky, Rosen, Daniel Jones, Haskins) and you have between 3–5 out of 16 (19–31%) shot of it paying off. Miami should still draft someone, of course, but I wouldn't give up that much equity for it.
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Apr 1, 2020 18:14
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fsif posted:You wouldn't want to give up a huge bounty for half of those quarterbacks, though. You definitely would for Mahomes, Jackson, and Watson (none of which were drafted in the top 5!), a maybe for Murray and Wentz, and a doubtful/definitely not for Goff, Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Winston, and Mariota. Combine those with the obvious duds and a couple other "probably not"s (Paxton Lynch, Trubisky, Rosen, Daniel Jones, Haskins) and you have between 3–5 out of 16 (19–31%) shot of it paying off. I think you're being a bit glib with 'pays off' because still the majority of those teams who drafted those quarterbacks are better for having done so. Maybe Darnold and Mayfield don't compare that well to some other prospects, but their teams are still better for having drafted them. Basically, you gotta play the game and take a chance, obviously trying to minimize risk as much as possible but not taking a chance somewhere isn't really an option One draftee may compare unfavorably to others but but still favorably to the other options the team had, most of the teams in your doubtful/definitely not category were still better off for making that call
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Apr 1, 2020 18:42
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tarbrush posted:He's pulling the same bullshit in Pittsburgh. What? No he isn't, he had 6 INTs, 3 FF and 2 defensive TDs, and played at FS the whole season. Tomlin doesn't ask him to do anything but play center field, and he's killer at it
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Apr 1, 2020 18:46
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https://twitter.com/Primetime_jet/status/1245405615482179584 ronpaulitshappening.gif
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Apr 1, 2020 19:00
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That's not 6 feet apart
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Apr 1, 2020 19:04
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Play posted:I think you're being a bit glib with 'pays off' because still the majority of those teams who drafted those quarterbacks are better for having done so. Maybe Darnold and Mayfield don't compare that well to some other prospects, but their teams are still better for having drafted them. Basically, you gotta play the game and take a chance, obviously trying to minimize risk as much as possible but not taking a chance somewhere isn't really an option I'm not really convinced that any of those teams are better off with a Darnold/Allen/Mayfield tier QB than they would be with an Andy Dalton. I agree these teams still need to take a shot and I'm okay with trading up (within reason!) to do it, but the proposed Miami bounties that include three first round picks are too much, especially when Miami has pick #5 and can probably get Tua for far less.
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Apr 1, 2020 19:06
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D-LINK posted:What? No he isn't, he had 6 INTs, 3 FF and 2 defensive TDs, and played at FS the whole season. Tomlin doesn't ask him to do anything but play center field, and he's killer at it Yes, and towards the end of the season he was complaining that he wasn't being moved around enough and not being made best use of. Performance was not the issue in Miami, he's been fantastic everywhere and I would absolutely have him back in a heartbeat. But he does seem to hit discontentment with coaching pretty easily
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Apr 1, 2020 19:08
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fsif posted:I'm not really convinced that any of those teams are better off with a Darnold/Allen/Mayfield tier QB than they would be with an Andy Dalton. But yeah, giving up that much draft capital for any one player is dumb. The Bills were super dumb to give up what they did for Allen, even if he turns out to be actually good.
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Apr 1, 2020 19:15
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I think the Bills would be flirting with Super Bowl contender with Dalton as their QB. I say "flirting" because Patrick Mahomes exists.
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Apr 1, 2020 19:19
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Ehud posted:We half-assed a tank job, went 5-11 and ended up in a position where we'll probably have to give up a considerable amount of draft assets to get a good QB. The regime, over my explicit objections (they never seem to listen to the Colorado based fan community) traded Minkah, and that's looking smart given his attitude issues even after he got what he wanted; got good value for Tunsil, whose contract looks far heavier than his talent; have added team first hard workers with talent at positions of need; got the most out of a team with holes literally everywhere. There was never a tank job, just the expectation that having the least talented team in the league would result in the worst record. They've got credit with me on coaching, and credit on talent evaluation. I agree, I'd like Burrows. I'd like Tua. I do not want to end up with just one pick in the first round, and I'm real scared to give up that capital on a guy with one good season or a guy who has never had one full good season. D-LINK posted:What? No he isn't, he had 6 INTs, 3 FF and 2 defensive TDs, and played at FS the whole season. Tomlin doesn't ask him to do anything but play center field, and he's killer at it https://www.thephinsider.com/2020/2/7/21128030/miami-dolphins-minkah-fitzpatrick-unhappy-pittsburgh-steelers-trade torgeaux fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Apr 1, 2020 |
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Apr 1, 2020 20:07
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D-LINK posted:What? No he isn't, he had 6 INTs, 3 FF and 2 defensive TDs, and played at FS the whole season. Tomlin doesn't ask him to do anything but play center field, and he's killer at it He’s referring to this - https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/02/07/minkah-fitzpatrick-wants-to-be-moving-piece-on-the-chessboard-in-2020/ And honestly his dip in production was obvious. Several of those INTs were pure flukes, not the result of any tremendous play by him TBH. But he’s still a stud and they have a an amazing FS for the price of 18. Great trade by Pitt. And Flores didn’t run him out of town. That’s an incredibly incorrect understanding of the situation
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Apr 1, 2020 20:18
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Amy Pole Her posted:He’s referring to this - Yeah, he'll get to do more this season, as do all 2nd year players on Pittsburgh's notoriously hard-to-learn defense. Not being snarky, just saying Tomlin/Butler always keep rookie and new player's workload simple
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Apr 1, 2020 20:32
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https://twitter.com/danielrpopper/status/1245430646903681024?s=19
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Apr 1, 2020 20:55
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D-LINK posted:Yeah, he'll get to do more this season, as do all 2nd year players on Pittsburgh's notoriously hard-to-learn defense. Not being snarky, just saying Tomlin/Butler always keep rookie and new player's workload simple Maybe. Coming off a pretty mediocre second half of the season, he's talking an awful lot and asking for change. Exactly what he did in Miami, as noted. Maybe he'll grow up but running to the media (and having his mother run interference for him) on two teams in one season is reason to be concerned. If they can keep him playing at a high level, it's a steal.
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Apr 1, 2020 21:11
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D-LINK posted:Yeah, he'll get to do more this season, as do all 2nd year players on Pittsburgh's notoriously hard-to-learn defense. Not being snarky, just saying Tomlin/Butler always keep rookie and new player's workload simple Oh i don’t think you were the one who said Flores ran him out of town! I actually don’t recall who said that. Omar seems to hate Flores which tells me he’s doing Something right
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Apr 1, 2020 21:42
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What if the NFL decided to just monopolize all this dead time? What if they started the draft today and only had 3 or 4 picks a night? You could analyze each pick for an hour or so and it would definitely be something to watch. Yeah, there would be extreme fatigue, but.....I’d probably flip it on. 3 picks a night: 85 days of the draft 4 picks a night: 64 days of the draft Good luck on those hour long profiles of the seventh round picks though.
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Apr 1, 2020 21:42
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I wonder if that would result in a bunch more trades than we normally get.
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Apr 1, 2020 22:02
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A round a night could absolutely work. gently caress it I’d watch some of the 3 hours of round 7 just to see how lost the commentators are talking about these players they’ve never heard of.
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Apr 1, 2020 22:09
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:A round a night could absolutely work. gently caress it I’d watch some of the 3 hours of round 7 just to see how lost the commentators are talking about these players they’ve never heard of. I'd watch to see 20 minutes of them reviewing every social media post a 7th round punter made since high school.
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Apr 1, 2020 22:27
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Chichevache posted:I'd watch to see 20 minutes of them reviewing every social media post a 7th round punter made since high school. They should do this for everyone it would be great.
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Apr 1, 2020 23:11
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The Vikings would still miss their pick
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Apr 1, 2020 23:16
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