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Arc Hammer posted:I've only ever heard: As a 15-year-old who was in the theater, I assure you it was there. The first game to make use of it to my recollection was West End's Star Warriors (1986), a hex-and-counter boardgame covering basically the same territory that the X-Wing miniatures game does now. Concussion missiles were depicted as heavier but slower than protorps, occupying the same niche that proton rockets did in the X-Wing computer games.
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Feb 28, 2023 20:04
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Looks like that line is in the '83 comic adaptation:
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Feb 28, 2023 20:25
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Madurai posted:On the final run in DS2's reactor. Lando: "All right, Wedge. Go for the power regulator on the north tower. I'm carrying concussion missiles – they should penetrate." NVM what I found was a real line re-used in fanfic. Seems pretty common for anything that takes place during the BoE.
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Feb 28, 2023 21:51
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I'm sure it will appear eventually when someone digs through an old box of tapes and finds a live recording of a drive through viewing of Jedi.
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Feb 28, 2023 21:57
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Napoleon Nelson posted:Looks like that line is in the '83 comic adaptation: Interesting detail that makes sense, the Falcon is a bigger ship (probably the biggest that could still fit in the gaps of the incomplete second Death Star) and can carry heavier weapons than a one-man fighter.
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Mar 1, 2023 06:23
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There's a lot of extra details that novelizations added, often because they had to work from early cuts or scripts, sometimes just because it makes them read better. The Battle of Yavin is absolutely stuffed with dialogue mentioning and depicting random technical details, but the Battle of Endor is a lot sparser on that front. The Battle of Yavin did a whole thing with sound effects and random garbled dialogue forming a whole unique soundscape, but maybe that was more specifically George Lucas's thing and he wasn't directing for RotJ. But also with the Battle of Endor, the space battle is spliced between the land battle and Luke's duel with his poppa, so it couldn't play around with too much distracting dialogue, and they already had their extremely expensive mind-boggling system of superimposed miniatures on robot arms to create an amazing visual that could largely speak for itself. Possibly an earlier cut or the script before everything was edited together had a lot more dialogue. There's plenty of deleted footage that wasn't used, like the dudes running around on the Falcon as Lando used it for his battleship, or cut fighter pilots. The B-Wing and alien pilots were cut out entirely.
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Mar 1, 2023 06:52
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IIRC, the B-wings were cut from the battle because they didn’t look well in the combat scenes, due to some issue with their narrow size against the blue screen or something like that
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Mar 1, 2023 16:05
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Wookieepedia's got a pretty comprehensive list of all the changes to the movies over the years, but there's no mention of concussion missiles. The comic adaptation had the mention, as did the novelization, so it probably was in the script at one point. Here's a video directly comparing different versions of the movie as well. It has a 35mm version of the original release from a grindhouse, the unaltered version of the movie from the 2006 DVD (which itself was taken from the laserdisc), the Blu Ray, and a fan-made restoration. It doesn't include the '97 special edition, but I definitely don't remember that having the line. The line also isn't in the radio drama, and it's not in the Death Star II mission of Rogue Leader either. That game came out in 2002 so likely would have based their script on the '97 version of the movie - and a mention of concussion missiles would be helpful to let the player know not to use lasers to try and blow up the reactor.
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Mar 1, 2023 18:56
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It's also not in the X Wing Alliance DS2 run.
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Mar 1, 2023 19:59
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I am going to be volcanically angry if I have been Berenstain Bears-ing myself about this for forty years.
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Mar 1, 2023 20:48
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The Nelson Lando-la Effect
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Mar 1, 2023 20:52
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Everyone's ultimately got their own definitive experience of every piece of media.
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Mar 2, 2023 07:26
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Well now I just read that in the original X-Wing they were just called missiles which I do not remember.
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Mar 2, 2023 16:59
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Somehow thinking about concussion missiles brought me back to a Y-Wing memory. I used to be in The Rebel Squadrons/Republic Shield (RS)- online X-Wing club for playing custom missions. I joined in like 1996 when it was an AOL thing. Our rival was the Emperor's Hammer (EH). When XvT came out we could finally do tournaments with the EH. For a long time I couldn't participate because my computer didn't support DirectX. Eventually I got a new computer and participated in a tournament that I more or less won single-handedly. In retrospect it was probably because my lovely Internet connection made my movements so choppy that I was invincible. Everyone flew TIE Interceptors, by the way. I thought I was some kind of badass after this and was bragging about it on IRC so another RS guy called me out and challenged me to a duel. He chose a Y-Wing and he said choose any ship you want. He beat my rear end 10/10 because he cut throttle to 1/3 and put everything to max recharge and just sat there and shot at me and young dumbass me kept trying to dogfight him. The only way to beat this strategy is to try the same thing with another Y-Wing. That's right - the Y-Wing was actually the apex dogfighter in XvT. I was brutally owned and got trolled out of the IRC after that lol
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Mar 2, 2023 17:27
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Mulaney Power Move posted:Somehow thinking about concussion missiles brought me back to a Y-Wing memory. Low-speed flare duel was really the Y-Wing's opportunity to pwn all comers, yeah.
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Mar 2, 2023 19:06
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Napoleon Nelson posted:Looks like that line is in the '83 comic adaptation: Nice find. That explains why it's in the official website, then.
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Mar 7, 2023 18:08
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tadashi posted:Nice find. That explains why it's in the official website, then. It must have been in the novelization, too, which is where I'd have picked it up. Then my brain did the rest--and is still doing it. I can hear Billy Dee Williams' voice saying it.
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Mar 7, 2023 18:58
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y wing still best wing
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Mar 7, 2023 19:26
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that's my favourite Lando line
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Mar 7, 2023 23:08
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Madurai posted:It must have been in the novelization, too, which is where I'd have picked it up. Then my brain did the rest--and is still doing it. I can hear Billy Dee Williams' voice saying it. It is, on page 468 of my beaten up old paperback copy that has the entire original trilogy, and it's almost the exact same line as what was in the comic: "It's too big, Gold Leader," yelled Wedge. "My proton torpedoes won't even dent that." "Go for the power regulator on the north tower," Lando directed. "I'll take the main reactor. We're carrying concussion missiles - they should penetrate. Once I let them go, we won't have much time to get out of here, through."
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Mar 8, 2023 01:41
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Mar 9, 2023 07:21
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I want to go to there.
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Mar 9, 2023 20:03
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tadashi posted:I want to go to there. Same reaction the Fox execs had in 1975! https://vimeo.com/246979354 The two volume set of McQuarrie's work they show at the start of the video is really good, if you want more.
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Mar 10, 2023 02:41
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Madurai posted:Whoever came up with the pushtug retcon is doing good work: it neatly explains the cockpit asymmetry and the oversized engines. That was Brian Daley in one of the Han Solo Adventures trilogy. On one run, Han is pretending to be an ordinary YT-1300 acting as a tug pushing a massive load of containers of grain. Under pursuit by a local bulk cruiser, hand detaches from the cargo and dumps the grain, buying him enough time to escape.
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Mar 18, 2023 21:41
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Prolonged Panorama posted:Same reaction the Fox execs had in 1975! So Han Solo is basically Zeb's model?
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Mar 21, 2023 15:15
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tadashi posted:So Han Solo is basically Zeb's model? Huh, I always heard Zeb was based on Chewie concept art.
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Mar 21, 2023 16:19
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MikeJF posted:Huh, I always heard Zeb was based on Chewie concept art. He was, but there might be a little bit of Han in there as well. A character named "Han Solo" appears in the rough draft script, and is described as "a huge, green skinned monster with no nose and large gills". The "Wookees", which appear in the same draft are only described as "huge grey and furry beasts". Ralph McQuarrie started his work based on the second draft script, where Han was a human and Chewie served with him aboard Jabba's pirate ship. That draft describes Chewbacca as "an eight foot tall, savage-looking creature resembling a huge gray bushbaby- monkey with fierce “baboon”-like fangs. His large yellow eyes dominate a fur-covered face and soften his otherwise awesome appearance." That description led to the early McQuarrie art that inspired Zeb, though the description of early Han as being huge and having no nose certainly seems to have carried over as well.  It's definitely possible that the version of Han from the rough draft was just split into two characters in the second, after it became apparent that Lucas wouldn't be able to completely feature a primitive Wookiee society but still wanted the idea to have some representation in the movie. The more or less final Wookiee design was taken from art done for a short story by George R.R. Martin in 1975:  Ralph McQuarrie had also talked about Lucas specifically saying he wanted Chewie to look like a Lemur early on, which didn't end up part of the final design, but did eventually work its way back into the series. During the making of Revenge of the Sith, Lucas revisited the idea of Lemur-like aliens, and intended them to be the inhabitants of Utapau:  This idea didn't make it into the movie, but was eventually reused in The Clone Wars for the Lurmen species:  And the Utapauns that we know today were originally supposed to live on Mustafar, which is why they all wear red robes and have ashy skin. 
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Mar 21, 2023 23:54
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Always nice to recycle an old idea.
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Mar 22, 2023 09:39
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https://twitter.com/AdmiralNick22/status/1398457703471616003
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Mar 24, 2023 18:47
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Nice of them to give the Y-Wings a tropical retirement after the war.
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Mar 29, 2023 18:24
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Do we ever see how exactly a rebel airfield works? The X-Wings are parked so neatly, to me that implies they taxied in to position after landing. Making such a precise repulsorlift landing (or take off) seems needlessly risky. So do X and Y-Wings slide a few inches off the ground on minimum repulsorlift power to taxi around, get in an out of tiny hangars, etc? The closest I've seen to a direct answer is this brief shot in Rogue One, where an X-Wing appears to have wheels in its landing gear, and is being towed deeper in to the Yavin IV base: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1ifFkaxvCo Although it's hard to tell whether it's really moving or not, and whether the wheels are the in-universe answer, or just part of the practical prop. But it would answer the question of how so many ships got so far in to a confined space.
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Apr 13, 2023 03:31
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In A New Hope don't they use those little towing scooters to move the fighters into position before they take off? I could have sworn there's a shot where a Y Wing is getting towed.
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Apr 13, 2023 03:42
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Arc Hammer posted:In A New Hope don't they use those little towing scooters to move the fighters into position before they take off? I could have sworn there's a shot where a Y Wing is getting towed. Counterpoint: when they were taking off for the strike, the fighters looked like they VTOLed right out of their parking spots inside the temple.
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Apr 13, 2023 05:52
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Yeah, Luke lifts off surprisingly high while still inside the super dark temple, and in the SE and later that cuts to the ships rising and transitioning to forward flight seemingly just outside the base: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9AMCARnQ8g That video is edited, with closeups of Luke and other shots removed. In the 1977 version, the ships are tiny specks moving at incredible speed, having used the "launch tubes" mentioned in background hangar chatter earlier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFGp4A9GlkM Here's a fan restoration of the launch tubes shot for a better look: https://vimeo.com/119422001 So originally, Luke takes off and rises pretty high up inside the hangar, then... what? Carefully hovers over to the "launch tube" entrance (in the ceiling or high on a wall?), gets lined up, then hits full throttle? Or is propelled by some force? Seems like a lot of delicate maneuvering to do in a dark temple, especially when every other ship is also doing the same thing. The SE "helicopter" style takeoff shows that they aren't moving super fast while inside, but still, that's a lot of moving ships at once. Personally I like to imagine the launch tubes being like aircraft carrier catapults, and that ships would taxi in to position while still on the ground. Then engage repulsorlifts, retract gear, throttle up, and wait for the launch tube to do its thing and fling you out at (apparently) hypersonic speed. The shakiest part of that, lore-wise, is the most mundane: Taxiing or being towed around while still on the ground. But repulsorlift hovering everywhere seems inefficient and dangerous, and what if a ship has damage or is unpowered? Prolonged Panorama fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Apr 13, 2023 |
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Apr 13, 2023 06:51
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Yeah that's something weird I was thinking of the other day. In the Battle of Yavin aand throughout all of the Rogue Squadron games, they depict fighters taking off inside the hangar, guided by airport dudes with lights on sticks instead of being towed around like real aircraft. I guess if you have hover technology, you can just kinda scoot ships around over eachother instead of managing limited deck space. No idea if that means that the hangar technicians have to move ships around by getting inside them and hoping the hover functions are working right or if they have other means. Interestingly, TIE Fighters presumably work the other way around, since they are stored on racks on the ceiling, so maneuvering and landing would be done at floor level. You could maybe even imagine TIEs being designed for less in-gravity hover abilities. There's a couple scenes in other material of airfields where they keep starships outdoors, but I guess that's just a storage option. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aCzbNCe_1A I feel like usually when ships are landing on planets, they don't bother with guiding themselves laterally into a hangar though. At most they'll just plop down into the middle of some thing without a roof like the Millennium Falcon was in on Tatooine. I guess that means that at Yavin they got towed into the hangar somehow specifically to gear them up for battle?
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Apr 13, 2023 07:07
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Tractor beams have been a thing since ANH, they probably use those to guide incoming and outgoing spacecraft.
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Apr 13, 2023 07:47
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The view from the office:
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Apr 13, 2023 17:53
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aww yeah gimme them tubes
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Apr 16, 2023 06:14
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Prolonged Panorama posted:
Repulsorlifts are an extremely Solved Technology based on how ubiquitous they are for incredibly mundane uses (pretty sure we've seen them used for the same things we would use a dolly/pallet jack for). They seem to be cheap, extremely energy efficient and incredibly robust/reliable. Look at Din's starfighter in The Mandalorian: the thing doesn't even bother with landing gear, it just stops falling about eight inches above the ground, at which point the thing can just be pushed around by hand.
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Apr 17, 2023 00:13
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Nov 6, 2023 15:54
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