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Well at least two zombie franchises are moving forward
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Apr 11, 2020 23:14
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Gripweed posted:The decision between those two franchises would have to be made based on which one had the best cyborg battle, imo. Jason X, Jaxon, does have magnetic nipples which is a pretty hard thing to top
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Apr 12, 2020 17:02
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Lurdiak posted:The opening is funny in theory but the execution is so terrible. Jason's design does not help
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Apr 16, 2020 00:24
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Predator is a perfect movie. Unfortunately it's going up against two perfect films and has a lot of dead weight of its own. Tremors is also a perfect movie and the first sequel is at least fun and the TV series is better than it has any right to be. I love Lee, but there's a reason he didn't talk in much of them and the best one wasn't even made by Hammer
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Apr 18, 2020 23:52
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BisonDollah posted:I'm going to watch the Tremors sequels over the next few days. Is it worth me trying to hunt down the Pumpkinhead sequels at all? I mean the first one was fine and it's a cool monster design but I can't find a stream anywhere and eeeeeh. You do not need to track down the Pumpkinhead sequels. One is only 'good' in that is features the obvious idea of summoning a Pumpkinhead to fight another Pumpkinhead
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Apr 19, 2020 00:53
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STAC Goat posted:I think I have to squint less to see Alien as horror. To me the first one has always been a clear haunted house film just in a spaceship and the xenomorphs are just genuinely one of the monsters I was more scared of as a kid. I just mentioned it in my AVP review but I still have vivid memories of being scared out of my wits by the Alien ride portion in Universal Studios and having a xenomorph "breath" on my neck that chilled me to the bone. Only the first Predator counts as a horror film as much as its anything. Everything after is action first and foremost. ALIEN tries to be horror through out to varying degrees of success. The first Predator is a perfect film, and I will die on that hill, but it's going up against two perfect films. That's what tips it to TCM. Other notable franchises though, TCM's back half is going to weigh it down considerably.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:25
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TrixRabbi posted:It's a shame we won't have a Universal vs. Hammer showdown so we could debate Lugosi vs. Lee. Let's be honest there would be no debate. Lee and Lugosi went for very, very different takes on the character. Lugosi was the sophisticated monster, feasting on the high class and putting on airs wherever he went. Lee was the beast, a blood driven creature that could think of nothing but death and misery and sought out only that. It's basically what kind of Dracula do you like, the one that can pretend to be human for more than five seconds, or the one frothing at the mouth and wanting to wipe out the entire human race. Universal would still demolish Hammer on every front and is my personal pick for the victor of the whole shebang. There's just too much going for it and too many amazing films.
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Apr 24, 2020 20:11
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The worst thing you can say about most of the Friday the 13ths is that they're average slashers who got screwed over by censors. Wishmaster is a disaster of a series where I'm not even its two best films even live up to what they should be, given what they had to work with. Wishmaster is the low rent knock off of the Leprechaun series, and anyone who isn't just taking the piss knows that. Literally any other franchise on the list right now would also stomp Wishmaster and the fact that it made it this far is a fluke at best. Chucky, I love you man, but you're just one inventive slasher genre. You're going up against titans of horror. I love you, but its time to take your bow. Make sure to go for the ankles while you can though. And honestly, Exorcist has had some love in recent years for latter films, but I've just never found it all that scary. It was fine, definitely a good horror film, but I just think the original Alien is better. And the other Exorcist films are less good as horror and more good as "What the gently caress are you doing yes do that yes"
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Apr 28, 2020 21:02
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Like if you want to include the Invisible Man I don't see why you can't include the Invisible Man Vincent Price is the Invisible Man in the Invisible Man Returns which is a direct sequel to the original The Invisible Man and he reprises the role of the Invisible Man in Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein, where he appears at the end as the Invisible Man, fortelling their eventual meet up with a different The Invisible Man Basically voting against classic Universal horror is voting against Vincent Goddamn Price as the Invisible Man
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Apr 29, 2020 17:23
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I'm going to have to disagree with you there for one big reason. Yes, you can discount the Invisible Man films, because no, no one is seriously going to argue their appearance due to a one off gag in Abbott and Costello- but the rest? Frankenstein leads into Bride leads into Son leads into Ghost leads into Meets Wolfman leads into House of, House of and Abbot. Dracula leads into Daughter, wanders near Son, arrives at House of, stumbles into House of, and finally comes back into Abbot. Wolfman leads into Meets, leads into House of, leads into House of, leads into Abbot. While the three tent poles don't converge until House of Frankenstein, arguably until Abbot and Costello if you strictly want actor continuity, what that still definitively leaves you with is Frankenstein, Bride, Son, Ghost, Wolfman, Meets the Wolfman, House of Frankenstein, House of Dracula and Meets Frankenstein And almost definitely includes Dracula and Daughter and probably Son of Dracula Even if you stripped it down to JUST the Frankenstein, they stomp Chuck into the ground. Dracula not as much, but it has the first arguable lesbian vampire in film history, and Bride is arguably the first queer horror film period. Then you factor in the Wolfman which is one of the most efficient, tightly created films in the history of monster making. In an hour and eleven minutes of film, you get the complete tale of a man at the top of life, happy and wealthy and with everything going for him, and his total and complete self destruction through no fault of his own that ends with his mercy killing by his father to try (and fail) to save his soul. You have THE codification of the movie werewolf and its lore presented as naturally and fully formed as anything ever has, that to this day has made its stamp on that monster and is still one of the first things you look to. You have brilliant acting from the usuals and the unusuals, a film where tragedy is king and no one walks away the hero. The Wolfman doesn't have the amazing cinematography of the earlier films, especially Bride, but it stands unique among the trio as being a completely original story that creates a unique, unforgettable movie monster and defines them in a way that others could only imitate or comment on. And then you carry that through into the sequels and you see the character of Larry go from a suicidal wreck in Meets the Wolfman, to someone who knows that even death will not save him in House of Frankenstein, to a man trying just to be cured in House of Dracula, and finally a man who makes peace that he IS a monster, but that won't stop him from trying to hunt the worse monsters that exist out there with every piece of his immortal body. This is why these core films are not 'loosely' tied together. They converge wonderfully and completely into one film franchise by the end and stand unique in horror for doing so. And I'm not even going to go into what makes Bride of Frankenstein one of the flat out best movies in the entire bracket. Chucky is great, I love the Chuck. Chucky is not the Universal Monster Lineage
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Apr 29, 2020 17:48
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Freddy and Jason aren't because they're in exactly one crossover movie. Unless you count sight gags. You'd have a stronger argument for Predator and ALIEN but that at least plays SUPER fast and loose with continuity. The core Universal films are part of the same franchise because the entire latter portion of their movies are nothing but in continuity crossovers. Meets Wolfman, House of Frankenstein, House of Dracula, Abbot and Costello Meet Frankenstein. Four different movies in continuity with each other and their prior films. The only odd duck is Dracula since they had a different actor almost all the time but even there, Bella comes back for the last one. There is no Wolfman sequel without the Frankenstein movies. There is no Dracula sequel (with Dracula) without the Wolfman and Frankenstein. And the movies are all directly tied back to Frankenstein, with Meets the Wolfman being a direct continuation of Ghost. That's the difference. Of course Creature doesn't count, nor does Phantom. I'm skeptical of Invisible Man I just made that post as a gag to see how often I could say Invisible Man in one post about the Invisible Man. If every Nightmare movie after Freddy VS involved Jason, or every Jason movie after Freddy VS involved Freddy, or every ALIEN movie after Predator VS involved the Predator, then sure, they'd count. They don't. Mind I'm not sure including the Predator franchise with ALIEN would give it that much of a leg up
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Apr 29, 2020 18:11
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Basebf555 posted:Edit: What the hell Burk stop transcribing my brain waves Never
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Apr 29, 2020 18:13
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The rules of the tournament are, to count for this, they must have at least three films in continuity with one another. Your argument for why people should vote for Chucky over the Universal line is "it's not fair". I want you to understand why I do not take that very seriously. It's not like House of Dracula is a good movie- it objectively is one of the absolute worst. House of Frankenstein at least had some great German inspired shots but it's also a loving disaster of a film, it's just better than House of Dracula. Most of the Chucky films are better than both, in arguably. But the thing is, you can't just arrive at House of Dracula. Because that isn't the first, third or even fifth movie. You go back to where that started and you get to House of Frankenstein. You go back to where that came from and you arrive at Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman. You go back from there and you find The Wolfman and Ghost of Frankenstein. It'd be kind of like going, okay, we're going to have a Monster Movie Tournament, but Godzilla isn't allowed to have any of his in continuity sequels because that wouldn't be fair to the rest even though it's 100% allowed by the rules. Godzilla would dominate that tournament for the exact same reasons. This is why Hammer flagged in comparison. No cross continuity at all, meaning each of their franchises had to live or die on their own. I personally would have picked Frankenstein over Dracula myself, but the fact that they never had the idea to have Lee V Cushing as Dracula and Doctor Frankenstein is THEIR mistake. Not ours. And they seriously should have had that. Just a movie with no heroes, only monsters. That would have been amazing. but they didn't. Universal did. And even just counting the ones that SHOULD be counted, Invisible Man or not, they stomp the Chucky films into the ground by weight of Wolfman alone. let me put this another way- if this was just Universal Frankenstein, and it easily could have been, Universal would still be crushing Chucky beneath its iron booted feet. There's a reason why Bride of Chucky is called Bride of Chucky and draws so much love and inspiration from the Universal lot.
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Apr 29, 2020 18:41
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Class3KillStorm posted:I know we're constraining this down to largely just the Frankenstein and Wolf Man movies, with a few tangential asides for Dracula (and I personally don't see how the two direct Dracula sequels have any bearing on House of Dracula), IF we're including Dracula, we must include Daughter, since it is a direct sequel, and Son is more thematically relevant in the tradition of recasting the role of Dracula, and beginning the Alucard trend. quote:but even still, you have to square up some basic facts here. Namely: Let's have some words. House of Frankenstein has some brilliant cinematography and direction and it picks up from the last film competently. It is flawed, but not bad in any dire sense. The worst thing about it is that Dracula is completely separate from the rest of the action, taking up the first act only. Larry's torment and character arc is carried on perfectly well and Boris Karloff as the Mad Scientist is beautifully poetic as he hams it up with the absolute best of them. He is the king of the show, and it is fitting that the Monster that he created carries them both to their death. It is flawed, but not bad and has a lot of positives outweighing the negative. House of Dracula is a trash fire but an amusing one. The plot is fully off the rails, Dracula is an active agent of destruction even though it costs his own life, the entire finale is stock footage, and we have a rogue Doctor Jekyl Mr Hyde alike. But we also have the foundations of greatness, as Talbot knows for certain he is truly immortal- no method can kill him. So he has taken his first steps to thwarting other evils, and is the ultimate hero of the piece, defeating the rogue doctor and cosigning the Monster to its repeat burning finale. It is easily the weakest of all of these films, but still has elements of greatness to it. It just couldn't get the footwork together. That wouldn't happen until Abbott and Costello but we'll get back to that. Let's swing back to the bad bitch that got us to the ball. Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman is a great film, maybe not an all time classic, but a great one all the same. It functions simultaneously as a sequel to The Wolfman and to Ghost of Frankenstein, and generally does not miss a beat. The movie is harmed by the choice to shy away from Bella Lugosi speaking as the Monster, as he is canonically still Ygor at this point and also blind, but this is the movie that started THE walk for the Monster. You have the Wolfman Frankenstein Monster throwdown at the climax, the exploding dam, the villagers being very rightfully wary, the best drunk in the world, the return of class acts all around, and a seamless blending of two very different monsters. It is the first cinematic crossover and stands out even now in how well it managed. The Wolf Man not being a great horror film on its own terms deserves some loving talk back. I already went on at length about what the Wolfman accomplished and what it did and what it means, so I want to hear from you on how it failed itself. Yes, the violence is muted because they couldn't do what they wanted- that is the lament of all but the rarest of horror films. But sheer pound for pound, Wolfman stands heads and shoulders above almost all other films for birthing an entire genre of work. There were werewolf movies before The Wolf Man, but there has never been one after that ever looked the same with few exceptions. Every single werewolf movie made thereafter has been inspired by, in response to, or because of the Wolf Man, and the mark the Wolf Man made on pop culture is beyond iconic. The worst thing I can say is that the camera work isn't the best, but the sets, actors, lore, story, all of it is firing on all cylinders. Chucky was not the first evil toy movie, though he certainly made his mark on the genre. The Wolf Man defined what it was to be a cinematic werewolf. And Dracula? Yes the movie is flawed- it has no sound track that isn't diegetic, though you could argue that works as part of its style the same way with Frankenstein. Yes it's not a perfect adaptation of the book and takes several liberties, again, like Frankenstein. Also like Frankenstein, it defined what this genre was. Bella Lugosi, on the strength of one film, defined the role of Dracula forever. The Spanish version has superior effects and cinematography, but the English version has Bella Lugosi who personified the monster of Dracula without a drop of blood to his name and a single fang in his mouth. He speaks as if he knows the words to use, but not how to use them, very specifically. He blends into high society so he may dine on whomever he wishes. He slaughters men and women alike like animals. A role Christopher Lee would become synonymous with after ten times, Bella Lugosi owned in one. The fact that he returns for Abbott and Costello is just the icing on the cake. The film is weakened only by its run time and restrictions, and still stands the test of time. But let's grant you the House movies as bad. Let's grant you Meets Wolfman, Dracula and Wolfman as middling. Then we have Frankenstein. Two bad films, three middling films (that are all time greats and iconic and genre making and) and then we have Frankenstein. Frankenstein '31, Bride of Frankenstein, Son of Frankenstein, Ghost of Frankenstein. Five all time great films that each accomplish very different things, very different ambitions and very different stories. Each establish a legacy unto themselves, beholden to no other. Eclipsing the books, eclipsing the moon and the stars, eclipsing all else, is Frankenstein. The most nuanced films of its era, especially Bride. The most ambitious and transgressive and imaginative. The five movies that stand above and beyond and defined what cinematic horror was, what the sympathetic monster was, what the idea of the Mad Scientist and his Lab Assistant was. Defined what the Horror Movie Crossover was, the big monster throw down, the big dumb as balls cinematic crossover to end all crossovers. Do you really think House of Frankenstein and House of Dracula muddy the water that much? The worst thing about both of them was that they could not live up to what came before. And that's why Abbott and Costello Meets Frankenstein was made. I love Chucky, but Chucky's best film was great. These films are iconic in a way few others ever were. And not just because they're first, because there's a reason we don't have more Nosferatu running around, or stans for the Werewolf of London. And you don't want to bring the Mummy or Creature into this because then I'll just get to go on longer
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Apr 30, 2020 00:04
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Shrecknet posted:Ive mentioned it upthread but Lugosi literally dis not speak English at the time of filming which is why his dialog is so captivating and weird, he learned his lines phonetically Oh yeah, definitely. He just had the raw charisma to carry that through. When Lugosi was on, he really was on. Ygor might be his best performance.
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Apr 30, 2020 00:33
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Origami Dali posted:Considering he had been playing Dracula, and other roles, on broadway for years before the film, I highly doubt Lugosi didn't know English by the time of filming. This is something I'd really like to know the truth on. I've heard both things from different sources, which is why I was vague.
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Apr 30, 2020 00:44
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Almost Blue posted:I actually really like House of Dracula. It is a bit nonsensical, but with its strong focus on dual natures and the monstrous elements within people, it ends up having really interesting sort of "recovering addict" storyline that cuts deeper than House of Frankenstein or Frankenstein Meets the Wolf-Man. It's a sadder, and more desperate. Like, Dracula knows her can't go on as he is, but he can't help himself. This right here is why I hesitate to even call it bad. It has so many interesting things in it and it tries to do a lot of stuff. The movie is just straight up bonkers
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Apr 30, 2020 01:37
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Franchescanado posted:Personally I would like the next bracket battle to be... Oh that'd be a fist fight by the end
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Apr 30, 2020 21:51
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MacheteZombie posted:If you nominate a director, you toxx clause for that director. gey muckle mowser posted:oh god Just one big ugly fist fight Timeless Appeal posted:edit: everyone's factoring gayness in their rankings right?
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May 1, 2020 00:10
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TrixRabbi posted:Wishmaster It's more likely than you might think! stick around
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May 1, 2020 05:31
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He saw the Christian Romance Special writing on the wall and walked
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May 1, 2020 16:45
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TrixRabbi posted:I think Universal Monsters is the one to beat it. It is the chosen one. Also I could write a whole impassioned thing about Universal Monster movies and what they personally mean to me but frankly? If that's your only reason you're going for Chucky, I don't want to argue you out of it. You love it, you vote for it, that's just how you do. You do you. There's a very real disconnect with some people when they look back on the Universal lot because they seem so bare bones. But that's largely because they ARE the bones. They are the foundation on which modern horror was built. In all of its artsy, critic hated, sequel driven, body count heavy, cleavage sporting, overly censored, stamped down by conservative goons, goofy ghost bullshit having, camp and queer glory, Modern Horror has come forged from their fires. You can vote with your heart on Chucky, but give the originals their due. They made this genre what it is now, and set the tone for what horror should be and strive for ever since. Which is gay as gently caress. Also if Universal does not win then I will write an essay about every single Friday the 13th film and how each of them are great and perfect forever until it wins every tournament from here unto the Heat Death Of The Universe
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May 1, 2020 17:21
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STAC Goat posted:I guess my counter to that would be: ... Yes, the MCU is a franchise. That's a ridiculous question. Universe and Franchise are the same term, Universe just gets tossed around because it's in vogue since MCU means the Marvel Cinematic Universe. They're in continuity with each other, they inform each other, they are made by the same company and have the same creators and the same production, they are part of the same franchise. Just like Godzilla is a Franchise. Just like James Bond is arguably a Franchise. There are different continuities- Godzilla has several that are very distinct. The Universal lot have several as well over the decades. Don't let branding get in the way of terminology. There's a reason why Blade isn't part of the MCU- it's because that isn't an MCU movie. It's not in continuity and it's not part of that Franchise. In this instance, Universe and Franchise are interchangeable. Wonder Woman is part of the main DCU franchise, while Joker is not. Both are DC movies, but one is part of the greater narrative and the other is not. That's the difference.
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May 1, 2020 23:51
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If we're playing by Continuity rules, the way a franchise works is if you have three films in continuity within those franchises or universes, whatever you want to count it as. For a very brief breakdown on Godzilla- there are two primary timelines. Both start with 1954 Gojira, but veer off from there. The Showa Continuity picks up in 1955 with Godzilla Raids Again, then has the crossover with Toho's version of King Kong (specifically that one, and not the original or other versions) and then has a crossover with Mothra, and then has a crossover with Mothra and Rodan to fight a new monster. Because there were more than just Godzilla films being made at the time. Just like in the Universal franchise, independent but later connected films were being made. Rodan came out in 1956 and had no ties to Gojira, the Mysterians came out in 1957, Varan came out in '58, Mothra came out in 1961, all their own films that did not tie into Godzilla at all. King Kong VS Godzilla then happened in 1962 after it started its life as Frankenstein VS King Kong, which then was followed by the in house continuity crossover of VS Mothra. Even after this, individual Kaiju movies were being made that weren't part of or involved Godzilla, just as the Universal films didn't involve Frankenstein, but are generally considered part of the continuity. This continuity ended in 1975. In 1984, Return of Godzilla kicked off the Heisei continuity, which discarded the entire previous lineup of films and all of their monsters and everything in them except 1954's Gojira. This continuity carried on into 1995's Godzilla VS Destroyah, and does not include the other monster movies made in the Heisei era, including up to Shin Godzilla, but Shin Godzilla is generally lumped into the Reiwa Era since it's from 2016, just as Return of is considered Heisei despite being from 1984. And the films in between VS Destroyah and Shin all have their OWN continuities. Godzilla 2000 presumably sits at its own little table and isn't even in continuity with VS Megagirus released a year later (2000, amusingly enough) which is roughly in continuity with 1954 but with the ending changed so that Godzilla was never killed. And looked different. GMK disregards all of that and only keeps 1954 again, and then is disregarded by the duology of Godzilla X MechaGodzilla and Godzilla, Mothra, MechaGodzilla, Tokyo SOS WHICH IS IMPORTANT TO BRING UP Because THIS film is in continuity with the original 1954 Godzilla, with one detail changed that Godzilla's skeleton remained so that it could be turned into this version of MechaGodzilla, and it is in continuity with Mothra 1961, Frankenstein Conquers the World 1965 (Where Frankenstein's Monsters heart gets eaten by a feral child after the atomic bombs were dropped, who becomes a giant and then that giant fights Baragon, who would appear in the Showa Era film Destroy All Monsters and also appear in GMK) and War of the Gargantuas 1966 But is NOT in continuity with any Godzilla film after 1954's original. Only those disconnected films that would tie into the greater continuity later. Then you have Final Wars which is an island unto itself. The Legendary Movies are their own thing in their own continuity that don't tie into anything else. So, you know, I'm pretty much used to thinking about movies like this. It's why its easy for me to discount Alien and Predator because while Predator makes allusions to Alien, but AVP doesn't work in continuity with the ALIEN franchise at all. Similarly, Freddy VS Jason ties more into Jason's continuity than it does Freddy and is a single crossover film, VS a trend of the two co-existing from that point on as was the case with the Universal lot and the Godzilla franchise.
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May 2, 2020 00:39
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One crucial detail I forgot to bring up but love to mention The connecting element from King Kong VS Godzilla to Frankenstein Conquers the World and then War of the Gargantuas is Oodako, a giant monster you've probably never heard of. He is a giant octopus that pops up to fight King Kong, then he inexplicably shows up to kill Frankenstein's monster in an alternate ending to the film that was never on the TV version OR the theatrical release but is the canon ending of the film because The titular Gargantuans in the next film are the 'children' of the Monster, one grown from discarded flesh left on land and one grown from the flesh that was left to the ocean after Oodako killed him, and that one gets into a fight of revenge for killing their progenitor. And to tie this back again into horror, which it already technically is because Frankenstein, Scooby Doo Mystery Incorporated has an entire episode dedicated to this last movie including its amazing dubbed song "The Words Keep Getting Stuck In My Throat" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP5LZOsGkzw Because gently caress YOUR MAINSTREAM HORROR CONVOLUTION this is the Godzilla franchise! AND THIS IS ALSO CANON IN THE MECHAGODZILLA FILMS WHERE THE BONES OF GODZILLA ARE USED TO MAKE A GIANT CYBORG WHO TEAMS UP WITH MOTHRA TO BEAT UP HIS SON AND FIRES ABSOLUTE ZERO ENERGY BECAUSE gently caress YOU Godzilla is the best dumbest greatest thing. ALSO Oodako and Godzilla would later team up to fight terrorists and Oodako gets a shout out in Kong Skull Island. The best obscure z list kaiju, ever
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May 2, 2020 01:10
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Class3KillStorm posted:I mean, with only a few exceptions, it's not like the Godzilla movies have a lot of ongoing continuity. And most of the instances where it does happen either relate back to the original or to the immediate preceding movie. So, for the most part, it's just easiest to watch the original 1954 version and then just pick and choose based on whether the poster or the opponent design grabs you. Ah my friend, no. While it is true that some Godzilla films do not share heavy continuity or characters, as I detailed earlier in the thread, every major continuity has had that very thing. Continuity. Just more subtle than one might think. For example, Across the 1950s, the kaiju movies of note featured consistently human, mundane levels of military firepower. Then 1961 Mothra came out and introduced a brand new anti-kaiju weapon, a heat ray. This weapon was then carried over into the War of the Gargantuas and refined into the Maser Cannon, which itself would then feature prominently in the Godzilla films of the 1970s. The Showa Timeline is also pretty rock solid, all things considered. 54 leads into 55 where Godzilla is stuck in a giant block of ice. This leads into KKVSGoji where Godzilla breaks free of that block of ice but then gets knocked out underwater while fighting Kong. When Godzilla resurfaces in '64, humanity knows that their weapons cannot stop him, they know that Kong cannot stop him, so they turn to the one respite they may yet have- God. Specifically, they appeal to Mothra, a divine entity that kicked the poo poo out of Japan and America three years prior, because this movie is in continuity with Mothra. Godzilla falls into the ocean again, gets recovered by some assholes, falls into the ocean again, washes up on an island and gets woken up by some assholes, so he goes and gets a kid and then the next movie is cannonically the end of the Showa Era and set in the FAR FUTURE of 1999 and it shows the natural progression of humanity as technological giants. The rest of the showa era then establish certain things that will happen in DAM such as humanity's growing technological pallet, and Angirus being A Thing again. But that does get a bit loose with it, I will admit. Then you have the Heisei era which is one long storyline of convolution and plodding glory from 1984 to 1995, with the same characters cropping up from '89 on. Miki is the effective main character of the Heisei Era and her relationship with Godzilla and their son is what defines the emotional throughline of the last three films. If you try to jump into, say, Godzilla VS MechaGodzilla 2, the first image you see is of a destroyed Mecha King Ghidorah head as scientists study it and you stop and go "Wait what the gently caress" The only one that really stands on its own is Godzilla VS Mothra Battle For Earth, as that was more of a Mothra film with Godzilla guest starring. Which then ties itself into the continuity by having Miki along and then being integral to the plot of Godzilla VS Space Godzilla which is a real thing yes and that one also demands that you have seen Godzilla VS Biollante to understand all the stuff in the backstory. Biollante for the record is a genetic abomination that came about because a scientist decided to crossbreed a rose with Godzilla's DNA and then terrorists shot his daughter and her soul haunted the mutation. The Godzilla series is a wild, wild ride
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May 3, 2020 17:46
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Class3KillStorm posted:On the other hand, how much of that matters? Considering you said Class3KillStorm posted:I mean, with only a few exceptions, it's not like the Godzilla movies have a lot of ongoing continuity. Everything, actually. Yes, you can watch these movies out of order and have a fun time doing it- God knows back in the day that was the only way you could really do it. But you can also piece them together with a rough knowledge of what happens in each film and figure out the timeline by yourself- because I did that as a kid, when the only thing I had to go off of were my VHS releases or whatever I recorded off of TV. But to say that the continuity was superfluous is straight up, top to bottom, wrong. The Godzilla movies built up a whole extended universe, and even in the later movies that didn't have the other series in continuity, they would still work in OTHER films. GMK, from 2001, discounts every other Godzilla or Toho Kaiju film except 1954. But it also includes Godzilla 1998 in its canon. The Kiryu Duology includes Mothra 1961, Frankenstein Conquers the World and War of the Gargantuans, and I believe one or two other Non Godzilla Toho Kaiju movies. It implies a connection to YOG, for example, by having one of the Yog trio cameo at the start of Tokyo SOS. You can change the goal posts and say that it's not necessary to enjoy the films, and that is true, but to say that it isn't there at all and only 'from the previous movie to the next' is flat out wrong and has been wrong since Godzilla VS Mothra 1964, definitively. This is ignoring the Heisei Era which criss crosses itself back and forth and has the tightest through-line of all the continuities as I also detailed. I didn't go on a whole aside about loving Space Godzilla for no reason, even if I was trying to be funny. Funny related story. As a kid, my earliest Godzilla movies I had access to were Godzilla VS Megalon, Sea Monster, 1985, Godzilla VS Mothra 1964, Godzilla VS King Kong, VS MechaGodzilla and Monster Zero. I was able to work out that 85 didn't seem to have anything to do with the older movies but was a sequel to somethign I hadn't seen- I was aware of the original but had never gotten to see it- and I could tell that like in '85, Godzilla used to be a bad guy but became a good guy at some point. I was even able to piece together that King Kong went into Mothra. When I finally got a copy of Ghidorah the Three Headed Monster it was like a puzzle piece falling into place. "Oh, that's where he becomes a good guy!"
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May 4, 2020 17:12
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gey muckle mowser posted:I ended up switching my vote to Child's Play - there are unquestionably some better films in the Universal lineup, but the arguments here convinced me that they aren't really a franchise in the same way as most everything else in this tournament. If it had specified "Universal Frankenstein" that probably would've won. Those same arguments that started to break down and switched to "I'm voting emotionally rather than logically"? I'm only bringing THAT up because, since Universal is still in the drat thing, we're still going to have this discussion later.
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May 5, 2020 18:53
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Splint Chesthair posted:I can’t believe I’ve lived long enough to see the reappraisal of Halloween III be reappraised. Just wait for that to happen to the Star Wars Prequels, it's gonna get ugly
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May 6, 2020 17:34
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Franchescanado posted:Someone hasn't been in the CineD Star Wars threads lately. Can't imagine why
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May 6, 2020 18:15
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Question Aren't at least one or two of the Scream killers rapists
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May 12, 2020 17:55
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The main reason I bring it up is that it's kind of a double standard to not like This Killer because they're Bad and do like this Killer when they're also The Bad. They're all bad, and we love them anyways. Trying to bring up Freddy's a pedo as a detractment against the series is asinine because that doesn't mean that it's a negative. It can be done BADLY, see the remake, but generally Freddy the Child Predator was done well for the rest of it, and he always had rapist overtones. It's not why you like him, but it's part of what informs him as a villain and makes him unique.
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May 12, 2020 19:48
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God this round is a nightmare
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May 12, 2020 20:02
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So I've got some thoughts but I'll share them soonSTAC Goat posted:and I believe Carpenter's said he wanted to say it overtly but the studio wouldn't let him. But this made me think of a universe where John Carpenter made a Nightmare on Elm Street movie and my God that would have been the best thing ever
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May 12, 2020 20:42
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COOL CORN posted:I voted with my gut but I'm not quite ready to explain my choices because I'm not entirely sure I made the right choices If you voted for Jason, that's okay Jason will win the tournament don't you worry
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May 12, 2020 20:58
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So I wrote a whole thing for Universal. Twice over, in fact. I would do it again in a heartbeat. I didn't continue responding to Class because, frankly, he wasn't arguing. He was stating his emotional feelings, not anything academic. And I will never try to argue someone away from what they love. If what you have to say is purely emotional, that's fine. It will stand or fall on its own and cannot be countered. I do not have their emotions and I do not want to make them double think that. I stand by every word I wrote for Universal, and will do so again and again as I can and must. So now I'm going to talk about Friday the 13th and our boy Jason Voorhees. Let's talk facts. Jason is not the first slasher- in fact he didn't even become the Jason we largely think of and consider until the fourth, maybe sixth, movie. His movies are not the most influential, they are not the best. There is not a single Friday the 13th that eclipses its peers. They are not the scariest, they are not the horniest, they are not the most violent and bloody and queerest. But Friday the 13th, more than any other franchise across this entire tournament and beyond, is The Most Horror Franchise of them all. Was Jason the first slasher? Not even close. Is he The Most Slasher? Almost definitely. Jason defined what it meant to be a slasher, and all others pay tribute to him. Michael shifted almost immediately in the wake of what Jason unleashed and the Rob Zombie films play a lot more on Jason characteristics than they do Michael. Freddy clashes with Jason so regularly that they are one of the few to have a crossover film and a gag including one in the other. Leatherface and Jason are so easily mixed up by media that people erroneously believe Jason's used a chainsaw, which itself is a cliche at this point since most people have been informed otherwise. The Friday the 13th franchise hits every hallmark of horror, from weird paranormal poo poo, to demons, to sci-fi bullshit, to queer as gently caress outings, to one of the FIRST meta horror narratives, to tipping the hat to the classics and looking ahead to the future. Everything Horror is, Friday the 13th Is. This includes all the bad with the good. Being stamped down by censorship and horrible political agendas, being railed against by critics who never once paid attention to a single film, convoluted continuity, shifting and rewritten backstories, unmade and unrealized potential, making the villain the hero and so, so much more. Friday the 13th isn't the best of anything, but it is Everything. Scream paid its dues well and true, and in the enduring pop culture, Jason looms large despite over a decade of dormancy. He has remained a consistent presence in comic books, video games, fan works, shout outs and on going inspirations. This is without touching the films themselves, which were a constantly evolving, changing narrative as the series mutated into this hybrid monstrosity that, if you asked any layman about, they'd bleed details together. Jason also never sinks as low as his peers. Across his breadth and domain, the valleys are not so far from the peaks, and all stay miles above the stagnant pits of the Nightmares, the Deads and the Halloweens. You can have Jason clash with Alien, Predator, Hannibal, any and everything and it just works. Horror as a genre is inconsistent, sloppy, messy and so very gay and that's all great. I love that. It crashes against censorship and morality police who believe they know what's best for you to see. Right or Left, these policies have always choked horror even in the beginning. And no franchise has suffered as deeply and as unjustly as Friday the 13th. Yet it still rises, time and time again, just as undead and unstoppable as its figurehead. Pamela, Jason, Roy, Tommy, icons all. People may not know Roy by name but they KNOW the one where "it wasn't really Jason". So if you want to vote for Friday the 13th and can't articulate why? There's nothing to be ashamed of. It is the ultimate expression of horror, its truest form for better or worse. There's no singular creative talent you can apply to Jason like you can his peers. The Universal films have notable directors and writers abound, actors you can point to. The others all have Something, Someone. Jason is the purest of all, a workhorse franchise driven by a studio that hated it only because people still loved it. And if you love it too, if you still support it, no one should be able to stop you. Yes, the Universal films are better. They are more important. But nothing is more horror than Friday the 13th.
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May 12, 2020 23:54
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Of course you can't have ALIEN without Dark Starr and The Terror From Beyond Space. ALIEN is basically just their baby, tattooed with dicks and vaginas by Giger. Thank you Carpenter and 1950s monster movies
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May 13, 2020 01:07
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Shrecknet posted:Ok important question: Final Fear for the last match
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May 13, 2020 02:02
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Also having spoken at length in defense of both, I will also say- If you shotgunned Frankenstein and Bride, they are a near perfect combination that, total, clock in under two hours and thirty minutes. So even in a modern context, if you welded the two together, it's still more than capable of going toe to toe with any modern horror masters. Though I think that's also a great benefit of the Universal lot- they're not going to drag. They almost never go past an hour thirty and rarely an hour twenty. You slap one on and you're out in an hour.
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May 13, 2020 18:40
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| # ¿ May 21, 2024 20:24 |
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Franchescanado posted:Man, if I ever finish my fan edit, you will be able to watch Fridays Parts 1-4 in less than 3 hours, by my math. Oh yeah, no, the recaps are a necessary thing. Honestly the Friday films share a lot of the same strengths, Re: Get In and Get Out. To make it clear to the thread, I love both pretty equally and am ride or die with whoever wins to take down the rest of the tournament. So either get ready for more Burk Loves Jason posts or more Burk Talks Classic Media posts. Vote accordingly
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May 13, 2020 18:49
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