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Okay I just beat the game and haven't read any of this thread yet, but I feel like this entire game is someone's extremely convoluted and high-budget way of reviving Aeris/th. My hat's off to the demented superfan who decided that if the urban legends weren't real, he'd make them real. Edit: Although if the whole theme was fighting the destiny of how the game was "supposed" to go, then I am extremely disappointed that they didn't just throw Yuffie in here because why not? Seriously, why shouldn't Yuffie have been hanging around in Midgar doing dumb stuff to get materia? Clarste fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Apr 13, 2020 |
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Apr 13, 2020 08:39
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 03:30 |
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Further thoughts: my acting assumption at the moment is that Jenova/Sephiroth is trying to pull a Chrono Cross and creating a new timeline where it has a chance to survive. Also, they should've called the big Whisper the Obsidian Weapon or something since it serves more or less the same role as a Weapon (giant monster acting on will of the Planet) with only a little more mystical mumbo-jumbo sprinkled on top. This wouldn't have changed anything BUT it would've made fans like me shiver in delight for a moment. Clarste fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Apr 13, 2020 |
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Apr 13, 2020 09:38
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Eshettar posted:I did a double take when Aerith remarked that official word has it that Sephiroth died five years ago. I could have sworn that the Nibelheim incident happened seven years prior to the start of the game and that Cloud's mind had blocked out the two years he spent as a lab rat in Hojo's basement. The seven years five years thing is that Cloud left Nibelheim to become a soldier 7 years ago and the incident happened 5 years ago. Tifa is confused when he says it's been 5 years since they met because to her it's been 7 years. What he's blocking out is that he didn't make it to SOLDIER and hid his face 5 years ago.
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Apr 13, 2020 10:17
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Surprise T Rex posted:I got the impression that the Seph vision delayed Cloud enough that he otherwise would have missed meeting her. That was my impression too.
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Apr 13, 2020 21:20
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I do think it was sort of a problem that right at the very end Aerith suddenly gives a big speech about having the fight Destiny for Grand and Vague reasons and the other characters just sort of go along with it despite Destiny quite explicitly having saved their lives many times shortly beforehand. Like, I think it might've benefitted from being a little more explicit there and mentioning how Destiny tried to kill Biggs and Jessie and drop the plate and stuff, which the characters presumably didn't know. It felt like the game was talking to the players and not the characters, which is disappointing in such a character driven story.
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Apr 13, 2020 22:29
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:In the original, Cloud flunked out of the initial screening for SOLDIER 7 years before the game and enlisted as a regular public security goon instead because he was too ashamed of his failure to go back home. 2 years later, he’s assigned as part of the goon squad on a mission to the reactor near his hometown, which is led by Sephiroth and a SOLDIER first-class named Zack Fair, andCloud keeps his mask on the whole time so his friends don’t recognize him. Unbeknownst to everyone involved, the resctor was also Hojo’s first lab and was where JENOVA was contained. A lot of poo poo happens, Sephiroth goes crazy, Burns down the town (killing Cloud and Tifa’s families in the process) Zack gets his rear end kicks fighting Sephiroth, Tifa and cloud get brutally injured, but Cloud uses the last of his strength to sucker-stab sephiroth and throw him into the mako under the reactor. This is also why in the Remake Cloud gets headaches when his old squadmates remember him in the Shinra tower: they're not part of his fake history as a SOLDIER so remembering how exactly he knows them causes him painful cognitive dissonance. Even early on you can see that Cloud gets headaches whenever anyone asks him about his past.
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Apr 13, 2020 23:20
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Onmi posted:To give some context to the Sephiroth stuff He was told his Mother was Jenova, that he was special and not like the others, and basically raised by Shinra never knowing actual parents (And given his dad is Hojo that probably is for the best) He actually seems to be kinda a decent person, if a bit distant. But when he discovers Jenova, and that Monsters are being grown in the reactor, and that combined with "Oh you're not like the others Sephiroth" caused him to start having an existential breakdown which drove him into Hojo's lab and pouring over research notes, which only further made him snap. I think it's unclear whether Sephiroth knew Hojo was his father. When talking about his parents in the flashbacks, first he mentions Jenova but then he says "as for my father..." and starts chuckling to himself like it's the funniest thing ever. And I have to imagine he'd see being Hojo's son as a cruel joke at least. Also this isn't like super important, but Sephiroth's actual human mother was another Shinra scientist named Lucretia who's now immortal or something because she was injected with Jenova cells in her womb. Vincent (another playable character) was a Turk who was assigned to guard Hojo and Lucretia when all this was going down 30 years ago.
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Apr 13, 2020 23:53
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Also Yuffie is from Wutai which they make sound super important in the Remake but it's totally optional to visit it in the original.
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Apr 14, 2020 00:35
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cock hero flux posted:it's importantish in the backstory because it was the other side of The War that everyone important was involved in but it lost so as of the present day it's totally irrelevant and the game never actually forces you to go there Basically Yuffie's arc in the original is that Japan lost WW2 and is reinventing itself as a kitschy tourist trap for "the Exotic East" and what that means for their pride as a nation.
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Apr 14, 2020 00:41
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I felt like the changes to the whole bloodtrail sequence leading up to a dead Shinra were significantly worse than the original though.
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Apr 14, 2020 04:35
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All the character motivations should remain roughly the same, so I can't imagine the story going completely off the rails at first. Like, you're still chasing down Sephiroth, you still need to go through Junon and Corel and the Golden Saucer, etc.
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Apr 14, 2020 08:32
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Unless I'm misunderstanding things, we already beat the ghosts. There shouldn't be any ghosts in the next game because we're free of them now.
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Apr 14, 2020 17:13
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As for Cloud not going to reactor 5, in the original game Jessie's leg was still injured from reactor 1 (where a piece of rubble landed on her) and in this one she was fine for some reason even though the same thing happened. And then the ghosts showed up to make sure she sprained her ankle as she was supposed to.
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Apr 14, 2020 18:54
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Keep in mind that only Aerith really cared about changing fate, everyone else just went along with it after she gave a little speech. They don't have any idea what they're doing. Also I still blame Genesis for turning Loveless into some awful, overwrought, Shakespearean wannabe thing.
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Apr 14, 2020 23:20
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I mean the purple glowing blood is one thing, but everything else about the sequence is also worse imo. Like, Shinra still being alive and left hanging off a ledge for some reason. And simply not walking through previously normal floors that were now filled with creepy monsters. Like, if the blood trail had gone through the lobby or whatever that would've changed the tone significantly. It just wasn't remotely creepy in the new one, like they weren't even trying.
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Apr 15, 2020 00:10
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It was mostly the build-up imo. You break out of prison and the building is suddenly empty and there's a freaky trail of blood on the floor and you no idea what happened. All of that build-up is gone.
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Apr 15, 2020 00:15
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Hojo's lab being a dungeon was a mistake imo. Personally, I think it single-handedly removed all the mystique from Jenova and Hojo's experiments. You should've fought all those monsters in the lobbies and in the VR museum and the library while you were following the blood trial. Could've been a cool set-piece.
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Apr 15, 2020 00:20
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Caidin posted:I mean it did work actually, it's just the Meteor promptly reformed which on reflection seems silly but whatever, Barrets actual logic behind stealing the big balls is gently caress Shinra. It's magic.
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Apr 15, 2020 00:50
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Frankly making the entire game a musical sounds like a genius idea and I'm sad that Nomura didn't come up with it.
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Apr 15, 2020 01:14
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I can only hope they downplay Genesis in the remake-sequels though, because gently caress Genesis. I hope he's not popular in Japan.
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Apr 15, 2020 01:54
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For those who never played Crisis Core, Genesis is another Sephiroth who tries to be even more Sephiroth. Even prettier hair, even more pretentious dialog, and even more angelic motifs. It's awful.
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Apr 15, 2020 01:56
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That poem is Loveless, the play from the sign in Midgar.
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Apr 15, 2020 02:01
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Because time ghosts. Given that they call it the Will of the Planet it makes most sense to me to consider it a variation on the Weapons. They don't have any actual control over fate or anything, they are just physical beings that are trying to physically nudge things in the direction the Planet wants them to go. And just like the Weapons they can be killed. So they're dead now, or at least a major clump of them. Clarste fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Apr 15, 2020 |
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Apr 15, 2020 02:08
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I wonder if the play in the Golden Saucer is going to be a full length musical now. Starring Jessie Raspberry as the Princess.
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Apr 15, 2020 02:16
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Yeah, I feel like the way they handled all the Jenova spawn other than the Dreamweaver was kind of odd.
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Apr 15, 2020 03:30
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Thinking about a sequel, I kind of feel like FF7 has too many characters to keep up the quality of the banter going forward. Like, imagine running around with nine people all the time. It's even worse if you can choose your party because that just means none of them can ever say anything too important or interesting. This game worked because they were constantly forcing you into specific party configurations (which is exactly what happened in the original) but I feel like they'd have to keep that up going forward. Maybe even have the party split up for long periods of time.
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Apr 15, 2020 08:01
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I understand why you the player might want to bring along your favorites, either in gameplay or personality or both, but from a writing standpoint that kind of freedom is basically the deathknell for fun and interesting dialog that actually responds to what's going on. There's just too many permutations to write and voice act.
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Apr 15, 2020 10:01
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I mean if the plot starts a new war between Shinra and Wutai or the Turks desert and join the party, I am all for that. I'm fine with pretty much anything as long as it involves the actual world of FF7 as we know it, which naturally includes Jenova and Sephiroth and all that. I would be disappointed if the new setting stuff takes over the entire plot.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:44
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What the hell happened to Roche anyway? You fight him twice in one chapter and then he just disappears forever. I was really expecting him to be the final boss of the motorcycle escape sequence.
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Apr 16, 2020 01:05
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This has nothing to do with this game in particular, but for some reason I never really considered the parallels between Aerith and her mother, both waiting at home for a lover who went off to die on the other side of the world. Except Aerith would've realized that Zack died like a week ago?
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Apr 16, 2020 07:03
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Sewers part 2 were way worse and more time wasting than sewers part 1.
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Apr 16, 2020 07:10
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Mulva posted:Also they were together for nine seconds when she was 17 and then the next 5 years of her life happened so, you know, not exactly a love affair for the ages. Hey, he made a cart for her that she doesn't use anymore.
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Apr 16, 2020 07:16
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I am pretty sure they won't be expanding on every location equally. Like we don't need two extra dungeons between Cosmo Canyon and Nibelheim.
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Apr 16, 2020 07:25
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Why do you keep saying 9 seconds when none of your other numbers are exaggerated like that? It was like a least a week or two, I think? I don't know how much time passed in Crisis Core but it was more than 9 seconds. Edit: Unless this is meant to be a statement about how Crisis Core is absolutely non-canon because it annoys you.
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Apr 16, 2020 09:10
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Cloud is also consistently sympathetic to low level Shinra employees who are "just doing their jobs" which gets other people angry at him sometimes.
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Apr 16, 2020 09:40
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Speaking of which, do you ever get a chance to visit their secret underground meeting room?
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Apr 16, 2020 10:00
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Mulva posted:Exaggeration is used as a tool of emphasis. Like your correction isn't making the point different, you get that right? A seventeen year old had a couple of meet-cute moments with a guy, and then he disappeared out of her life totally, and then another five years happened. That's their story, in totality, exactly that detailed. And Tifa's and Cloud story is "They kind of grew up together, and weren't close, but there was this one moment where he went after her when she was climbing a mountain, and that's about it". That's what Tifa has to work with for the majority of the story. That's bare bones as it is, and *that* is still many times what Aerith and Zack had. And the fact it's so bare bones is the point. It's what gives pathos to the loss. "Meet Cute" is the basis of 99% of romance in fiction though? Aerith's relationship with Zack is still way more than her relationship with Cloud, and plenty of people play that up. I mean I don't think Aerith thought about Zack every day for 5 years, but he was still her first love and she still cares about that enough to subtly bring him up to Cloud. Downplaying it like you are just seems pointlessly contrarian to me.
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Apr 16, 2020 10:52
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Sounds about right. That sequence was pretty dumb, yeah.
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Apr 16, 2020 11:39
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Actually I think it's way funnier if Yuffie has no idea what's going on and her dialog reflects this as she gradually starts to wonder what the hell she's gotten herself into.
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Apr 16, 2020 11:49
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I am super looking forward to Yuffie, oddly enough. I feel like she's going to be a classic.
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Apr 17, 2020 01:20
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