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Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013


Thundercracker posted:

All abilities that happens in combat cutscenes vis a vis real world has to be taken with a grain of salt. Cloud can simultaneously leap high off a motorcycle and on another motorcycle, but also can't raise his arm to grab a raising ladder clearly within reach in Reactor 5

Yes, it sucks here and and it sucks everywhere else it is done. The amount of times people jump to safety from crumbling platforms in this game almost made my eyes roll clean out of my head.

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Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013


I basically didn't touch my loadout in chapters 17 - 18, the party was switching so much that I set up everyone's loadouts in a way that I was basically happy with on an individual level and left it at that.

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013


The plate falling was just more believably done than the original - it crumbles and falls in pieces rather than dropping as one monolithic block.

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013


Eggnogium posted:

I only finished the game a few days ago and was left feeling like I’d missed some key insights about the timeline/fate poo poo by taking over a month to play through it but now I’m realizing it just doesn’t really give any answers, does it? No one has any idea what any of it means.

Everything that happens in the remake happens, the old game is an echo of a future that now won't play out exactly the same as before, and ultimately it was an incredibly convoluted way of saying that they aren't beholden to the events of the original, and everyone is arguing about whether it's a genius narrative device or a bizarrely clunky move that needlessly complicates everything.

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013


I feel like Aerith is going to survive purely because her goals when she ran off to the ancient city aligned with the party at large as soon as Meteor was summoned. So while it was a shocking moment at the time, it didn't really change the arc of the narrative all that much.

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013


Cerebral Bore posted:

The thing you have to get is that the timeline is already broken when the game starts. The President is alive when the gang gets to the top because they're never caught and imprisoned and so they get to his office much earlier than they should have. Sephiroth isn't supposed to show up and gently caress around this early but he does and Cloud goes into a PTSD hallucination, so the plot ghosts have to keep Aerith where she needs to be so she can meet Cloud. And unlike in the original the gang aren't able to convince Barrett to hire Cloud for the Reactor 5 bombing, so the ghosts have to intervene and hurt Jessie's leg so that Barrett is left with no choice and Cloud is where he needs to be so he can fall down and meet Aerith again.

So the ghosts are basically forced to do more and more overt poo poo to keep the plot on rails while Sephiroth is trying to make as much of a mess as possible which eventually culminates in the ghosts just going berserk trying to steer a radically altered timeline back to where it should be.

Why it's necessary to kill the ghosts is unknown so far, but my personal theory is that both Sephiroth and Aerith have some kind of foreknowledge of how the plot of FF7 is supposed to go and they both find the outcome unacceptable, so here we are.

See, this is why I didn't like the ghosts, they just turn up and get in the way of whatever scene they're in. It's this massively convoluted way of saying that they aren't beholden to the original story that could easily be achieved by just... you know, doing something different. No-one cares if a bunch of lovely dorks complain about it. They wrote situations like Cloud not being in the Reactor 5 party, then needed the ghosts to fix it instead of any other solution that doesn't make you go "why are these ghosts here again". Why save Wedge and reduce the emotional hit of the scene only to have him sucked out a window later on? Why does Hojo get dragged into another part of his lab, only for you to immediately run into that room and face him again? Why have the church flooded with ghosts to guide Cloud and Aerith on the path they were going to take anyway?

And maybe they'll do more with the idea in future installments, but I thought the ghosts were basically just gone at the end; you kill the head ghost guy and his lieutenants, so there's nowhere to go from there as a narrative device, and they didn't exactly go anywhere as a narrative device in this game until the very end, and only for a cool boss fight so it didn't end on the highway battle. The story is now diverged, Square have made their point, hopefully they can just weave a different story without needing to justify it so hard.

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013


Arkage posted:

The ghosts flooded the church to 1) prevent Cloud from killing Reno and 2) prevent Aerith from falling off the balcony. Their initial meeting is arguably the most substantial for the future course of their relationship, so it's not surprising ghosts were there.

Or just write the scene slightly differently. When Cloud goes to kill Reno, have some soldiers run in and start shooting at him. Instead of having Aerith almost fall off a balcony, have her not almost fall off a balcony. Or have her almost fall off a balcony, but then she doesn't fall off it.

Arkage posted:

Also the ghost guy's lieutenants were three aspects of Seph from AC trying to save their future existence. I mean, I get it, you don't give a poo poo about any of the nuances in this part of the story. But a lot of other people find it worthwhile and interesting.

That's not nuance, it's an easter egg. It's a vaguely fun reference but doesn't add anything more to the story than the tiaras based on the Weapons. They're a reference to those three, not actually them, otherwise why would they be working against Sephiroth by trying to stop you?

Edit:

Re: meta commentary, I get it, I just don't think it works, at all. The ghosts mix with the actual story like oil and water. They turn up as an annoyance that massively stands out from everything else without ever adding anything to it. Their story has nothing to do with the actual story and it sticks out even more when it turns out it's all so Square don't have to directly tell a small group of salty pissants that they aren't getting a 1:1 remake.

The arbiter of fate is a cool-rear end concept in itself and it was a fun as hell boss fight, but the thing it was attached to I found bizarre and pointless. Ultimately either you like the meta commentary approach or it just doesn't land for you at all, and boy did it not land for me.

Doctor_Fruitbat fucked around with this message at 00:41 on May 31, 2020

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013


I don't mean to sound like I'm getting at people, my reaction to the ghosts is just "okay...?" rather than outright hatred. And I don't really have anything else to add about it, so I'll let everyone get back to spitballing about it.

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013


When the party is walking over Mount Nibel, Sephiroth should be seen slowly floating over the mountain next to you at all times while laughing malevolently. Everyone ignores him in extreme irritation.

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013


drat, FFXIV is looking great these days.

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Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013


March 2022 probably would have been doable, with the direction of the series set and everyone just flowing straight from designing Midgar to designing the rest of the world. I'd be surprised if they didn't at least partially flesh out the new design of the wider world as part of the design process for this installment.

In the current circumstances? End of 2022 at a minimum, I'd say. But Square have to be aware that they can't keep the momentum going forever. It might have peaked here anyway, even if the rest of the games sell well, as there was a lot of fervour over them tackling a classic that can't be fully recaptured in a sequel.

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