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Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


I know a bunch have already said it but I loving loved that intro. I only played for like ten minutes but this is great.

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Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


I think the answer to this is no, but is there anything in the Remaster that is new story wise? Like does the bonus gallery have anything on that front?

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Going to go live right now streaming 1v1 Tiberian Dawn matches with US Senate candidate Jess Scarane giving commentary if anyone wants to watch.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


It's so weird that the silo mechanic existed through so many of the games, including the modern-ish C&C3.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Wrr posted:

Crazy to think that the faction whose motto is "Peace through Power" might attract weirdo fash dipshits.

Actually, does Nod have any real motivation in TD other than doing terrorism for the sake of terrorism?

Ostensibly to break up the imperialist western order of the GDI nations.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


The weather and environmental effects of Tiberian Sun were really good but largely unexplored. Likewise, the amphibious units were cool but there was barely a use for that functionality most of the time. C&C 3 moved away from those elements, and maybe that was for the best because if you can't fully deliver on them, then they come off as weak. But it'd be nice to get a Tiberium game that had the best of both C&C 3 and TS.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Poil posted:

I loved that Renegade felt just like running around in first person C&C, too fancy graphics might ruin that feeling for me. But whatever. What I would like is the same but for Red Alert. Imagine shaking soviet bases apart with Tanya. Second game might be cool too. Maybe a serious and sophisticated mission where you ride around on a dolphin fighting a giant squid boss dodging the occasional dreadnought rocket.

This exists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhbJs7ifNB4

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Kin posted:

I think my issues with TS were that it leaned too heavily into the future tech aspect of things (IIRC).

The first game (and the 3rd) had this "what if current tech but with a bit of a twist" so you had things like GDI having an Ion Cannon, NOD having a flame throwing tank and a motor bike that fired rockets.

But Sun has bipedal robots, cyborgs, hovertanks, Mortal Kombat Kano styled healing face masks, etc. It's like an extreme fanfic of the C&C series.

Hell, i could even swear it feels like C&C3 retcons it out of existence.

I don't think C&C 3 retcons it as much as it was perceived to when it was released. This is especially true with Kane's Wrath, but even the base game isn't that bad with ignoring TS.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


KOGAHAZAN!! posted:

Ha, I had the exact opposite reaction. 3 going back to boring ol' tanks had me raging back in the day.

Same, but in retrospect, I really love C&C 3 and KW, and it's probably my favorite overall C&C, with TS being my second.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


I feel like Tiberian Dawn, Red Alert 1, and Tiberian Sun needed the remake more. Red Alert 2 would be fine with just a remaster.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Mordja posted:

Coincidentally, another impressive Chinese C&C mod I helped out with also just came out. You gotta download the two files, but this one is standalone and doesn't even need YR
https://www.moddb.com/mods/eternal-cronus

This looks awesome. Does one of the factions build with a worker unit? Was that hard to code in RA2?

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Mesadoram posted:

Something looks off about it. Can't put my finger on what though.

I decided to boot up RA3 and give it a whirl again. I forgot how short the campaigns were. When I finished the Soviet campaign I felt wanting for more. Also playing though it again made me remember how much I love playing as the Soviets in RA games.

It's using the models from C&C4 and is porting them into the TS/RA2 engine. The art style of C&C4 was lacking, just like virtually everything else in the game.

RA3 probably had some of the worst campaigns, but I think it had the best multiplayer barring maybe C&C 3 and Renegade. It's pretty sad to me that SCII took all the 1v1 attention of the era (and then competitive RTSs kind of died), because C&C 3 and RA3 had competitive multiplayer that was actually fun to play.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011



Isn't Renegade X kind of the same thing?

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Mordja posted:

Yeah Sun'ss overall tone was my absolute favourite, even if RA2 and Zero Hour are the best actual games. I also thought Tiberium Wars completely missed the mark compared to TS and consider it the ugliest game in the franchise, albeit still fun. Just don't like its Scrin design. The Tiberium Essence mod is pretty much how I play it these days.
I was extremely skeptical of a lot of EA choices, but in retrospect, I think Kane's Wrath and RA3 were the best multiplayer games. Kane's Wrath looks great, and the single players of C&C3/KW were nearly as good as TS. I wish there was just more of the multiplayer KW/RA3 design.

My rankings would probably be:

1. TS, but purely on vibes and aesthetic.
2. C&C3 and KW for best overall production.
3. RA2/YR, again for best overall.
4. Renegade for having incredible multiplayer.
5. RA3 mostly for multiplayer, and a cool aesthetic.

I wish there was either a new C&C in the style of C&C3 and RA3, or Tempest Rising filled that gap somehow. I really do miss GDI, Nod, and the Scrin though. I want a competitive 1v1 scene, with a competent single player.

Nichael fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Mar 23, 2024

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Dandywalken posted:

KWs weak spot was campaign map design since it was (iirc) skirmish maps, but the factions and story ruled. And yeah, 3 def merits playing still.

Forgot the CNC3 mod that added a bunch of poo poo from TS, but it was a blast too.

I appreciated KW's focus on just Nod for single player, and I think the focus created a better story overall. And honestly, Nod has the most compelling characters, in that it actually has characters. There's obviously no GDI equivalent to Kane, but there's not even a GDI equivalent to Anton Slavik, Killian, Alexa Kovacs, or the one Black Hand dude in KW's Act 1. The closest you get is GDI's Firestorm leads, who have a fun dynamic, but they get outperformed in their own campaign by CABAL and Anton.

The equivalent GDI focused campaign in Renegade similarly just kind of sucks character wise. The cancelled Tiberium looked better in this regard, but once again, the most interesting bit of unused lore in that was a lead character who was a Nod priestess.

Another thing I absolutely love about Kane's Wrath is it finally did reconcile the TS unit design with C&C 3. You had Titans and Wolverines (back and looking incredible), a hover sonic tank, artillery back with Nod, etc.

KW continues to have a balanced and mildly active online scene, and I definitely prefer its gameplay over the Blizzard style with StarCraft, but part of why I like it so much is just admiring how badass (and strangely cute) the Juggernauts look.

Anyway, tldr here is please give me more Command & Conquer. I've got a lot of little random models and toys from sci-fi I like, but my favorites are the complete set of pewter dudes from TS and RA2. I love this series.

Deakul posted:

The Scrin reveal in C&C3 and then the fact that you could PLAY as them blew my drat mind back in the day. :allears:

The unanswered cliffhanger of the Scrin boss saying you hosed up, and then promising to send in the actual invasion force was so cool. I also appreciate the details in the Scrin campaign which indicate that you're just kind of a middle manager gently caress-up in the middle of a routine harvesting operation. There's no greater motivation for them or mysticism, they're purely just conducting business. But the harvesting operation goes wrong because the past 60 years (or more if you count RA1 as the prequel it is) on Earth have been nothing but human militaries developing more and more insane tanks.

Nichael fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Mar 23, 2024

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


I could really go on and on about how much I love the Tiberium games and their aesthetic. Like Nod in C&C 3 going full cult, to the point that they're using completely ridiculous stained glass decor in tanks, or the desperation of GDI to cling to the :krad: looking Hammerfest base in Tiberian Sun.

Some of the crazier poo poo, like Tiberium plants and stuff, took an unfortunate step back in C&C3, but the idea that Tiberium just naturally goes through phases and ends up becoming more glacier-ish while killing off literally everything doesn't even clash much with lore. You have to consider that it's just supposed to be an easily harvestable resource for middle-manager Scrin types at this stage in its development.

When I compare GDI to the Terrans, or the Scrin to the Zerg or Protoss, there's just no contest. Aesthetics wise, C&C blows Blizzard out of the water.

Nichael fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Mar 23, 2024

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Also one more post of me geeking out here, but either though all of Villeneuve's Dune has been incredible, I really loved the scene showing an on the ground perspective of the Atreides base, complete with silos and refineries (the former not actually existing in the books). It made me think of the Westwood RTS games, and what a bigger budget C&C could look like in 2024.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


TuxedoOrca posted:

The Juggernauts would sometimes have an animation where they act like chickens, too.

Or dogs when they scratch their ears. I wish there was a C&C 3 Juggernaut model I could buy.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


The Ars Technica video made me wonder what Castle is up to, and I found this about his company:



rip

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Digital Jedi posted:

Still my absolute favor online multiplayer game ever.
Fond memories of hours long marathon matches on Hourglass
It was extremely innovating, and it was never quite matched by anything else (or maybe I'm just no aware of something similar). And like Castle mentions in the Ars Technica video, well designed multiplayer gameplay is of course important, but it helps to have some sort of emotional attachment to a given tank, unit, etc and GDI and Nod are good for that. Much more so than whatever random lore is spit out for Overwatch, Apex Legends, etc

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


I'm the guy who loves Dragon Age 2 and generally likes the Battlestar Galactica finale but C&C 4 is a bridge too far.

Had it been released as C&C Arena, or whatever the gently caress they wanted to call it for the multiplayer only/free to play experiment that it was supposed to be, I probably would've played it a little bit. But full price for a game that purports to be in the main series, but destroys all of the canon and gameplay was absurd.

Nichael fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Mar 27, 2024

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Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Pi Mu Rho posted:

You'll love these then...



Tiny Orca!

KOGAHAZAN!! posted:

Iconic and silly are basically the same thing when you're talking about C&C I think.

Though I think my actual fave Tib Sun design is the somewhat more pedestrian Titan. Something about the bulbous upper half and the way the protruding cannon breaks up the silhouette that gives it this really distinct shape.
The Tiberian Sun and Kane's Wrath Titans are my favorite unit designs, with the Juggernaut probably being second.

TheHoosier posted:

I'm a heretic in that I genuinely enjoy the Tiberian series more than the Red Alert series. Love both of them, but prefer Tiberian. I really like TS's presentation: the blasted hellscape, cyborgs/bots, moody Terminator-esque OST, and I think Anton Slavik is the best NOD henchman.

I really want them to remaster TS/RA2 next, but given that Red Alert's popularity over TS that probably won't happen :( TS needs some QoL love.
The Tiberium games are my favorite too. That said, RA2's multiplayer is significantly better than TS's. And while Kane's Wrath might be better than RA3's, I think RA3's did a lot of great work in thoroughly differentiating the factions, while still maintaining the MCV system. The Japanese in RA3 gameplay wise seem akin to some of the earlier rumors about C&C 3's Scrin, which I believe was supposed to have a dramatically different building mechanic (such as mobile bases or something).

Nichael fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Mar 29, 2024

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