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MoonCrab posted:Orochi should have died when Kaido decapitated him 5 years ago or whatever. Good fate for a bad villain, cool moment for a pretty dece villain. In the moment it would have owned if it stuck and it hindsight it would have double-owned if it stuck
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Aug 21, 2022 17:46
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Endorph posted:sure but then why give him all the backstory Because lovely people still have backstories and for as much it influenced his behaviors, it doesn't excuse them? He has a tragic backstory but sometime people just take the completely wrong lessons from them? Sometimes people really are just shitheels?
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Aug 21, 2022 17:52
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Yeah, agree that the backstory is still useful as it fully explains why he's so determined to hurt Wano. Guy had horrific things happen to him as a kid, and he was never able to forgive it later, even when folks were helping him out. It's a huge shame Oda never had Momo or Oden's pa acknowledge the original sin. His continued deaths did lead to diminishing returns on him getting off'd. I think I agree that Kaido killing him would have been fitting enough.
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Aug 21, 2022 17:53
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Marluxia posted:Because lovely people still have backstories and for as much it influenced his behaviors, it doesn't excuse them? See also: Donflamingo, Arlong
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Aug 21, 2022 17:53
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I do like the idea of someone having an absurdly strong Devil Fruit on paper but who just absolutely sucks at fighting so much that he ends up getting instantly creamed by every serious fighter he goes up against. That said I was hoping he'd get some kind of comeuppance beyond "he's super dead for real this time". Maybe we'll get a cover arc down the line where it turns out he had one last super secret head on his rear end and he hitches a ride out with Caribou or something.
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Aug 21, 2022 17:54
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MechanicalTomPetty posted:I do like the idea of someone having an absurdly strong Devil Fruit on paper but who just absolutely sucks at fighting so much that he ends up getting instantly creamed by every serious fighter he goes up against. You don't think the dramatic irony of being burned to death by his own burning revenge, being told off by Hiyori and finally having his last head beheaded was enough of a comeuppance?
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Aug 21, 2022 17:57
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whens the demarro black backstory
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Aug 21, 2022 17:58
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Hiyori is cringe...
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Aug 21, 2022 17:59
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yamato is stuck in the bird cage
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Aug 21, 2022 17:59
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Endorph posted:whens the demarro black backstory It's in chapter 1 
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Aug 21, 2022 17:59
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Marluxia posted:You don't think the dramatic irony of being burned to death by his own burning revenge, being told off by Hiyori and finally having his last head beheaded was enough of a comeuppance? I guess I should say I meant more like living to see all his dreams crumble and have to suffer the ignominy of living with his failure, which is what usually happens to OP villains. Besides that I'm not convinced he'll stay dead this time either, remember what happened with Pound?
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Aug 21, 2022 18:03
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No Wave posted:Hiyori is cringe... Most of the thread hating her because of her intro of robbing middle aged men trying to marry her was hilarious
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Aug 21, 2022 18:08
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Orochi's screen time as a massively hateable pill was good before we reached Onigashima. After the raid began any panel featuring Orochi (aside from the 1st decapitation I guess) is panel time that could have been spent on better things.
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Aug 21, 2022 18:10
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Now that I'm past the initial disappointment, this is a fine chapter. The whole kabuki sequence definitely flows better in the official translation. The gag with Kidd provoking Luffy and Law is great. Also I didn't notice the first time that Luffy gave Momo one of his patented lovely Jolly Rogers, like the one he painted on Laboon 
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Aug 21, 2022 18:25
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Begemot posted:Now that I'm past the initial disappointment, this is a fine chapter. The whole kabuki sequence definitely flows better in the official translation. The gag with Kidd provoking Luffy and Law is great. Maybe it's because it was draped over Momo, but the Jolly Roger looked okay to me. Also Law needs to show Chopper some respect. 
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Aug 21, 2022 18:36
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Was there this much hand wringing when Spandam got his spine snapped
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Aug 21, 2022 18:38
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MechanicalTomPetty posted:Besides that I'm not convinced he'll stay dead this time either, remember what happened with Pound?
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Aug 21, 2022 18:44
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Beef Jerky Robot posted:Was there this much hand wringing when Spandam got his spine snapped Why would there be? Only thing bad about that was that he lives, but that was pretimeskip one piece so it came with the territory.
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Aug 21, 2022 19:01
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Orochi, and heck the line itself however it would be translated is immaterial to why I'm not a big fan of the ending. Hyori's line is a banger and I'm glad it exists, but I'm doing a re-read of One Piece and I just got past Fishman Island and it's like  That kind of attitude is what I was hoping for, considering Wano's treatment of the Korizumi clan was genuinely framed as a bad thing. It's true that Orochi and Kaido are responsible for tarnishing Wano and revenge is well justified, but we could have had our cake and eaten it too if the Hiyori line had come earlier, and we had instead left Wano with a heartfelt speech about renewal and moving on with hope in our hearts. Instead we ended it with "Oden was here, Orochi is a loser", which, sure. (dang fishman island is too freaking long, but the fisher tiger flashback really is good)
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Aug 21, 2022 19:11
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Aug 21, 2022 19:17
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Teacher's going to have a hell of a day when one of the kids asks about how Kanjuro's family was slaughtered in public even though they didn't do anything.
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Aug 21, 2022 19:25
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Ryaomon posted:Teacher's going to have a hell of a day when one of the kids asks about how Kanjuro's family was slaughtered in public even though they didn't do anything. seems like only Orochi really knew his backstory and he's dead now, so I doubt kids are gonna ask that!
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Aug 21, 2022 19:37
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Beef Jerky Robot posted:Was there this much hand wringing when Spandam got his spine snapped heck spandam's dad was relatively less bad, he ordered the buster call but he seemed pretty horrified when he realized they werent waiting for their troops to get out of there and when sakazuki started killing civilians. he seemed like he had at least some morals, unlike his kid nobody has a problem with the bad guy in a story getting owned, its more just discussing the orochi's family backstory stuff
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Aug 21, 2022 19:45
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Anyone who was alive during the persecution of the Kurozumis was probably either a child at the time or murdered/starved to death in the subsequent years of Orochi’s reign
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Aug 21, 2022 19:54
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Beef Jerky Robot posted:Was there this much hand wringing when Spandam got his spine snapped I mean, there were definitely a lot of hands involved! 
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Aug 21, 2022 20:07
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*deep breath* The chapter was good! Honestly, I was so bummed out about Yamato that I didn't have it in me to really experience the real emotional point of this chapter: Momo's farewell. It was good! I liked that he's still a pathetic kid in over his head, but he's done everything he could to step up and do what horrible circumstances have forced him to do. He's just a kid and he really shouldn't be in this situation, but he is, and Luffy accepts that and pushes him further. It's a hosed up situation but a really good relationship. I've never been a huge fan of Momonosuke, but after being reminded of everything, I teared up along with Nami, for the same reasons. Hiyori's final words about Orochi... were good! They were well deserved and not at all inappropriate for the situation, unlike the fan translation. She and the country have been through so much, this catharsis is cool and good. However I do agree that the whole Orochi situation wasn't missing some things to begin with. Orochi is most similar to Doflamingo, in that he's got an understandable backstory but is nevertheless an unrepentant monster. Just like Doflamingo, Orochi does not deserve to be excused at all just because his abuse was the result of trauma. Abuse is abuse. But in this case it was the people of Wano, or at least their ancestors, that created the situation that lead to Orochi. I think the story would have been a lot better if that was more heavily emphasized. "The tyranny of Orochi is the product of the sins of our fathers, we should remember that what they did to him was wrong, and do better going forward," would have been a nice message to spell out. But this chapter was not the place for that. It's a fair critique of Wano that that particular message wasn't emphasized enough, but this chapter itself actually owned. As for Yamato... still not great! I'll miss him until he returns, but having some time to mull it over it's fine. There are two very important points that make this not a terrible direction to take his character: First: The island he wanted to escape was Onigashima, not Wano. Wano is a huge and fascinating country, and if Yamato wants to go on an adventure of discovery, there's so much to see right there! In fact, thinking about it this way, it would be a bit weird if he left Wano right away. If what he really wants it to be free and see the world, and he never really sees Wano because Luffy's done with it... that's not really freedom is it? It does feel like there was a last minute change with Yamato planning on joining and then suddenly not joining, but I honestly think that this might be the reason: Wano is clearly a special place to Oda. He put a lot of care into this part of the world. It's the most diverse and complicated island that he's portrayed. If Oda realized anything at the last minute and changed his plans, I have to believe that he didn't want Yamato to miss out on this country, Oden's homeland. Second: The story isn't over yet. Consider this coping or rationalization- it probably is- but there is definitely room for Yamato to come crashing in and rejoining the story at any point now. Yamato is explicitly not tied to Wano. There were multiple chapters emphasizing that. Yamato is free. He wants to explore Wano, but after that he wants to explore the world. I've got no illusions though- mainly because I don't want my expectations to hurt me again- he could join in the epilogue and fulfill all his seeded character arcs. I don't know for sure that he'll join before the end. But he could. And in the meantime he's having fun exploring the world on his own. I'll miss him, but I'm happy for him. I'm sure our paths will cross again, but until then, it's time for the next adventure!
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Aug 21, 2022 20:22
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Wano still has Pluton hanging around under it, so if Yamato is hanging around on Wano he’s gonna have a good time and be right back in the spotlight when that thing sees daylight again!
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Aug 21, 2022 20:26
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Bisse posted:Wano still has Pluton hanging around under it, so if Yamato is hanging around on Wano he’s gonna have a good time and be right back in the spotlight when that thing sees daylight again! I'm not sure if it would be better or worse for Yamato's reappearance if he was doing something with Pluton. I think I'd be happy either way!
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Aug 21, 2022 20:43
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Yamato said he was joining like two chapters ago and now just suddenly isn't, it sucks and I don't really care about Momo. What doesn't suck: One Piece World Red! It's out here in Taiwan (where movies have dual ENG/CH subs), so I saw it on Friday. Some broad thoughts, no actual spoilers but tagged anyway for obvious reasons: So you may have heard it's a musical, but that's not quite true, because only UTA sings. But her insert songs take up, probably, about 40% of the runtime I was initially very skeptical because the first musical number was pretty badly cut and everything prior was cheap looking, as was it to a point, but the money and the showmanship skyrocket over the film. The cast here is pretty deep, this is for sure not a Strawhats, Red Hair, Movie Characters movie In terms of visual style, it reminds me less of One Piece itself or even Taniguchi's past work than it does Summer Wars.
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Aug 21, 2022 20:48
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Bisse posted:Wano still has Pluton hanging around under it, so if Yamato is hanging around on Wano he’s gonna have a good time and be right back in the spotlight when that thing sees daylight again! Yamato would presumably stick around with the crew after that, and he needs to have been hanging out on Wano in order to deliver that kind of news. That would explain why he's got to stay behind for now even though he totally should be joining.
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Aug 21, 2022 20:55
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Beef Jerky Robot posted:Was there this much hand wringing when Spandam got his spine snapped humans make judgments based on immediate reaction and intuition and tend to assign the morality to that judgment in retrospect. to some extent, i genuinely feel its a brain-pattern thing, where some folks read the line as being in reference to the korozumi clan rather than just orochi, felt a way immediately (which would be justified if taht was how it was actually written), and find it difficult to get that feeling out of their system all of us are guilty of this in various facets of life
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Aug 21, 2022 22:31
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I think the inclusion of Big Mom and the other pirate crews/captains made this arc drag on. If it were just the Straw Hats, samurai, and minks vs Kaido and his crew, then I think it wouldn't have been as drawn out. It would mean missing out on some great moments though, like Law and Kidd taking down Big Mom. Overall I think Wano was great with a few missteps along the way.
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Aug 21, 2022 22:32
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You need to keep at least Big Mum because Supernovas vs Emperors was so good.
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Aug 21, 2022 22:44
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Mraagvpeine posted:I think the inclusion of Big Mom and the other pirate crews/captains made this arc drag on. If it were just the Straw Hats, samurai, and minks vs Kaido and his crew, then I think it wouldn't have been as drawn out. It would mean missing out on some great moments though, like Law and Kidd taking down Big Mom. Overall I think Wano was great with a few missteps along the way.
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Aug 22, 2022 00:33
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https://twitter.com/Epicopboy/status/1561097484264321024 Wanna play a whole game like this.
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Aug 22, 2022 00:34
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where's big mom
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Aug 22, 2022 00:38
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No Wave posted:Big mom was supposed to be the actually interesting part of the arc, with Kaido+BM becoming pals again but eventually shooting ulti through regardless due to her strong feelings about Tama. Like all of the BM content was good and her prison break-in was my favorite part of the whole arc. But it didnt go anywhere really and while her defeat was appropriately brutal it didnt seem to relate to the rest of her appearance in the arc. I don't think she was a huge time suck in general either way, she maybe added seven chapters to the 150. Apparently Big Mom's role was originally going to be filled by Doflamingo (its why the top three dudes in the AKP have the same card suit theme as Doffy's crew) so maybe that had something to do with it?
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Aug 22, 2022 00:42
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All the AKP named dudes are named after Card Games. Doflamingo was called Joker cause he was an ally.
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Aug 22, 2022 01:10
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MechanicalTomPetty posted:Apparently Big Mom's role was originally going to be filled by Doflamingo (its why the top three dudes in the AKP have the same card suit theme as Doffy's crew) so maybe that had something to do with it? I’ve never heard that. Was it in an SBS or something?
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Aug 22, 2022 01:19
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MonsterEnvy posted:All the AKP named dudes are named after Card Games. Doflamingo was called Joker cause he was an ally. It's also because he's a clown of a villain!!!
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Aug 22, 2022 01:20
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