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Nigel Tufnel
Jan 4, 2005
You can't really dust for vomit.
If you're particularly price sensitive, a used D3200 is dirt cheap and definitely good enough for learning.

Having said that, I myself have been on a Nikon APS-C > Nikon full frame > Fuji journey so might be able to help out.

For a beginner who wants to get out of auto mode and start controlling things like background blur, movement blur and grain/noise in an image; the most important thing is to understand the exposure triangle of shutter speed, aperture and ISO. In the Nikon system for example, when you shoot in A mode (aperture priority) you control only the aperture (f-number like f1.8, f8 etc) and the camera sorts the rest out for you. On Nikon this balancing of the three elements is abstracted away from you a bit and is mostly controlled via menus which IMO is not very intuitive.

Now compare that way of working to the Fuji system. On an XT1 (cheapest 'flagship' model), the controls for shutter speed and ISO are dials on the body and, on most fuji lenses, the controls for aperture are physically on the lens. I think this is a great way to explore the relationship between the three elements and nothing will progress your skill as a photographer early on quicker than understanding exposure (after that comes composition and artificial lighting but let's park that for now).

When I started in photography I was fed the idea by Youtube photog celebs that it was normal and cool to shoot in manual all the time and that only beginners use shutter or aperture priority mode. This is nonsense. Those 'modes' are all tools to get the shot you want. For example, if I am photographing a fast moving object I might only care about freezing that object and not having any motion blur. Therefore it would be totally legit to set my shutter to something very fast like 1/1000 and let the camera determine the right aperture and ISO to expose the scene correctly. Exposing a scene correctly by painstakingly balancing the aperture, shutter speed and ISO takes much longer than setting your primary setting and letting the camera do the rest. Where you do mostly see full manual control incidentally is with landscape photogs. When your scene is fairly static and you can afford to take time to get everything just so then yeah, go for manual. Worth remembering though that a landscape shot is usually taken on a tripod. A low ISO (to preserve detail) and a relatively small aperture like F11 (to get front to back of scene in focus) will require a slow shutter speed to make sure enough light is captured to capture the image. I struggle to handhold below 1/100 second so for that reason a tripod is required.

From the example above you can start to see the tradeoffs involved in 'getting the shot'. If you shoot street you ain't going to be doing it with a tripod but you might want to freeze someone as they walk. Well you need about 1/125 shutter speed for that so go for shutter priority and let the camera do the rest. What if you also want a shallow depth of field so only your subject is in focus? OK then set your aperture to f2 and now that you're dictating shutter speed and aperture the camera can set the ISO for you. Equally, a landscape photog might optimise for no noise and a large depth of field so they will need a tripod to make sure the slow shutter speed doesn't introduce shake to the image.

Quick note on full frame: there is a good saying that you don't need a full frame camera until you understand why you want one (other than 'bigger sensor is better'). I personally bought in to the full frame hype, upgraded from my D3300 to a D610 aaaaaaaand ... meh. It was heavy as balls which meant I never wanted to carry it anywhere, autofocus lenses (except the 50mm f1.8 and a few others) are eye wateringly expensive and I didn't see the amazing jump in fidelity I was led to believe I would see. I switched to Fuji and never looked back. More than spec sheets I think the most important thing for a camera is mojo. I love to pick up my XT1 whenever I can. I love to take it with me when I leave the house. I love how it feels in my hand. When I use it I feel at one with the controls. Everything is physical and I barely touch the menus. If the best camera is the one you have with you, then buy a camera you love to use.

Edit: also something worth knowing if you don't already is that the focal length (for example, 50mm) is relative to a full frame sensor. So, a 35mm on a crop sensor / APSC camera will have an equivalent focal length / field of view of a 50mm camera (to figure this out, multiply the focal length of the lens by 1.5 and this will give you the rough crop equivalent). I was pretty disappointed to find out that my 50mm f1.8 was actually more like a 75mm portrait lens on my D3300. Following this logic, the Nikon 35mm f1.8 will give you the field of view of a 50mm on a full frame camera. NB in the Fuji system this is why you see seemingly weird focal lengths on lenses like 23mm and 56mm. This is because they are equivalent to the 'standard' focal lengths on full frame of 35mm and 85mm.

Nigel Tufnel fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Apr 29, 2020

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Nigel Tufnel
Jan 4, 2005
You can't really dust for vomit.
I’m a Fuji fanboy but i don’t think the 23 f2 is the lens you want for macro. You could attach it to an extension tube but you probably want to plump for a Fuji macro lens like the 80mm.

23mm f2 is a great lens no doubt but not sure it’s ideal for this application.

Nigel Tufnel
Jan 4, 2005
You can't really dust for vomit.

GenJoe posted:

I have a similar use-case to lofi's above -- I found this XF10 new for $400 USD (including shipping) here: https://excellentphoto.ca/products/fujifilm-xf-10-digital-camera-with-18-5mm-wide-angle-lens-black

Is this a reasonable buy? Website looks reputable but I have no idea. I'm located in the U.S. for what it's worth.

The other camera I'm potentially looking at is the X100(s). Similar price used, and from my understanding, you're mostly trading off bulk for a much more serious camera. I primarily want something to take references with, so I'm not sure how deep into real camera work I'm going to go, and either way I think both are better cameras than my current ability so I probably shouldn't worry about it too much.

Probably the big thing to consider is the focal lengths of the two fixed lenses. The XF10 has a 28mm equivalent lens whereas the X100 series has a 35mm lens. So the XF10 will offer a wider field of view basically. Depending on what you're photographing that may or may not be desirable. Somewhere around 40mm is commonly cited as a human field of view so they're both 'wide' in that sense. 35mm is a classic focal length and is pretty adaptable to different scenarios. 28mm is pretty wide and is used a lot in street photography to give context to subjects. What are you going to photograph?

I had an X100 and I would say it's too big to pocket if that's a consideration (you mention bulk). If you like the 28mm FOV then you could also try a Ricoh GR ii.

X100 is set up where you control ISO, shutter speed and aperture with dials whereas the XF10 has a more traditional PASM setup as you may be used to from DSLRs.

Nigel Tufnel
Jan 4, 2005
You can't really dust for vomit.

Fools Infinite posted:

A fixed lens compact is definitely a camera for a pretty niche group of people, I definitely wouldn't have settled on it as my only camera if I hadn't learned on something else.

If it doesn't need to fit in your pants pocket there are many used interchangeable lens cameras still in your budget, many of which fit just fine in a jacket pocket. The fuji x-t10 or x-e2 and 18-55mm are in your price range, although a little over budget if your buying used from a retailer.

XE-2 and the 27mm pancake lens is a pretty small package and you get an interchangeable lens camera instead of a fixed one. Love that 27mm.

Nigel Tufnel
Jan 4, 2005
You can't really dust for vomit.
Seconding mpb.com. Bought all my gear from there except my first ever camera. Accurate descriptions on all the gear and they've marked up the quality of my trade-in stuff more than once (I said it was 'good' and they said 'nah, it's 'excellent'' and paid me more).

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