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Mr. Steak posted:Wait what? She fell down the stairs? Ok no, her father is weirdly okay with this, there’s more to it. Maybe it won’t come up again for another 500 chapters, but there’s some conspiracy poo poo going on here. This was exactly my thought when I first read this as well. Funky Valentine posted:Ah, yes, Kuina. Now I'm wondering what a stair-stair fruit would do. E: How do I manage to make 75% of my posts page snipes!? readingatwork fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 20:49
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the panel with zoro holding back all the marines sabers at the same time is so badass
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Apr 25, 2020 21:10
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scary ghost dog posted:the panel with zoro holding back all the marines sabers at the same time is so badass i do believe zorro is still tied up at this time (but i look forward to seeing that panel) (unless i totally forgot what you're talking about and this isn't an accidental spoiler?) Mr. Steak fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 21:47
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Going off of what I said about Oda not taking any character too seriously, here's a brief snippet from the volume release where he discussed his original design for Captain Morgan.
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Apr 25, 2020 21:54
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Mr. Steak posted:i do believe zorro is still tied up at this time u mentioned his three sword style and i thought that was the first time u see it.....but he might have used it in the kuina flashback. im sorry.
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Apr 25, 2020 21:55
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scary ghost dog posted:u mentioned his three sword style and i thought that was the first time u see it.....but he might have used it in the kuina flashback. im sorry. no worries, it was a super minor thing. but i was really confused lol. we (or i guess "i") didnt see him fight yet, but he explained that he uses a three sword style, plus in the flashback he described adding kuina's sword to his own. next time, just take a moment to double-check what happens in which chapter, before commenting
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Apr 25, 2020 22:04
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Mr. Steak posted:When Shanks teases Luffy by giving him juice to drink ("Bwahaha, see? He's such a kid, drinking juice!"), in the official translation it's milk instead...? I didn't look much deeper to check, but I imagine that's related to alcohol censorship. Probably they turned "beer" into "juice" so they needed something else for when the original actually said juice. Lord_Magmar posted:I honestly think that Milk also works better because drinking milk is one of those things that is used in real life as a sign of childishness. Not that the juice kid thing isn't also true, they both work contextually so I find it a fairly okay translation either way. It's been a good 15 years since I read chapter 1 in Japanese, but as I remember it, Shanks was mocking how Luffy drinks (he's two-handing his glass like a kid afraid of spilling) instead of what he's drinking. Mary Annette fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 22:06
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Scratchman Apoo posted:Going off of what I said about Oda not taking any character too seriously, here's a brief snippet from the volume release where he discussed his original design for Captain Morgan. lol i skimmed this page (it comes directly after chapter 5) and the way he describes that last part is so funny. he doesn't even explicitly write the part that goes "and so i changed his look." he just goes "the editor told me he looked lame. and i was like, yeah he totally does." and thats where the bonus page ends. lol
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Apr 25, 2020 22:16
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I remember loving Zoro's backstory immediately upon reading it, because it touches on something that anime practically never examines: a goal that's ACTUALLY unattainable. Zoro wants to be the best swordsman, which is theoretically attainable by beating everyone that challenges him. However, he was NEVER able to beat Kuina. That means he can never be truly sure if he's the strongest - because she was always stronger, who's to say she wouldn't have remained so? Taking what we've seen of Zoro's past at face value (and thus ignoring your conspiracy theory about foul play) her dying by complete accident is actually very important. If someone killed her, then theoretically Zoro could kill that person to surpass her by being stronger than the person that was stronger than her. Now Zoro will never truly know if he is the strongest or not.
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Apr 25, 2020 23:01
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CodfishCartographer posted:I remember loving Zoro's backstory immediately upon reading it, because it touches on something that anime practically never examines: a goal that's ACTUALLY unattainable. chapter 5 and this thread's already making me realize new great things about one piece
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Apr 25, 2020 23:10
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CodfishCartographer posted:I remember loving Zoro's backstory immediately upon reading it, because it touches on something that anime practically never examines: a goal that's ACTUALLY unattainable. I'm pretty sure he's chopped up at least one staircase at some point, therefore,
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Apr 25, 2020 23:38
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I mean, it's entirely reasonable for Kuina to feel distress over her changing body as an adolescent girl and feeling like that would hold her back from her potential as a swordswoman. That's a normal feeling to have as an adolescent in athletics and sports and also why Zoro had to call her out on that. But... none of that implies she is trans or identifies as trans, only that she's going through ordinary cisgendered girl struggles. Sorry, just had to point that out since some of my friends are trans and it's an important distinction to make.  I know what you said, but headcanon or not just try to be mindful/less flippant about it.
Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 01:33
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Teriyaki Koinku posted:I mean, it's entirely reasonable for Kuina to feel distress over her changing body as an adolescent girl and feeling like that would hold her back from her potential as a swordswoman. That's a normal feeling to have as an adolescent in athletics and sports and also why Zoro had to call her out on that. Oh, I didn't mean to come off as flippant about trans representation at all! I didn't mean for that to indicate that I'm actually headcanoning Kuina as trans (I'm not, or I'd have obnoxiously insisted on using male pronouns), just making a joke about how the scene makes it easy to do so, for someone desperate for trans representation. If being ironic about trans representation is insensitive, I'm genuinely sorry. As a decidedly cis guy who's very bad at understanding boundaries, I have definitely offended people in the past unintentionally, including my own sister, who is trans. Sometimes I just need to be told that something crossed a line. Though that said, I kinda doubt something like this will come up again any time soon. Also, while I'm posting, I'll say this: Probably no update today, since I'm rather busy. Not that I ever intended for this to be a daily thing, but yeah. I definitely won't ever let this thread (or reading One Piece) feel like an obligation. So far, writing these posts has made my experience with One Piece *more* fun, and I'm not gonna let that change. But since I've gotten more attention than I expected, I do feel an obligation to at least remind you not to expect regular chapter posts all the time. You *can* expect me to be responsive to comments like I have been, but I'll read whenever I feel up to it. Also, I'm still open to suggestions of any kind! Well, I guess not *any* kind. I wouldn't appreciate a suggestion to "be more funny" or something lol. Or a suggestion to stop writing "lol" so drat much in my posts. But stuff that's not clearly an element of my posting style. Also, no I will not stop writing his name as "Zorro".
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Apr 26, 2020 23:15
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Oh, you know what, after last post I started totally going tinfoil hat over Kuina's death, so I'll write that out now to tide y'all over in this updateless drought. [reminder to please be extremely careful about implied spoilers if you respond to this topic] Firstly, the murder theory: There are several sub-theories here, which I'll categorize into two groups: intentional and accidental. 1) Intentional This group is mainly supported by the fact that Kuina died *right* after making the promise with Zorro, which is one heck of a coincidence if she actually just fell down the stairs. And also the fact that her dad seemed weirdly okay with her death. 1a) He may have killed her because she told him about the promise, which lead to an argument of some sort, and it may have turned physical. Or else he merely disagreed so strongly that he killed her in her sleep. I think this is the likeliest theory in this group, because Kuina specifically mentioned that her father was a big part of her insecurities. She said that her dad told her she could never be a sword fighter when she grew up. Like, I definitely don't think it'd be a reason to actually kill her, but it's just the suspicious circumstances around her death that make me think that. 1b) Kuina's newfound confidence from the night's conversation may have inspired her to investigate something she wasn't supposed to. For example, perhaps her father was doing some shady alchemy poo poo in the basement which he kept hidden from his wife and daughter on the basis of "this is stuff only a man would understand." And so after the conversation with Zorro, she felt empowered to peek, then her dad found out and killed her to silence her. 2) Accidental I find this a bit more likely, because it makes her dad way less of a completely evil person. 2a) Similar to 1a, Kuina got into an argument with her dad, and one of them challenged the other to a swordfight to prove their point. And then her dad accidentally got too serious in the fight and wounded Kuina. This one would be fairly tragic if it turns out to be true, but I find it to be the most likely out of all the murder theories. 2b) Similar to 1b, except the dad doesn't outright murder her on the spot, but rather they get into a heated argument that leads to him accidentally doing something rash that unintentionally results in her death. Apart from the murder theories, I have another highly depressing one that's unfortunately kind of likely, I think. The theory that she committed suicide, and the family is saving face by covering it up. There's a possibility that the conversation with Zorro only exacerbated her insecurities, and made her feel even more of an overwhelming responsibility to get stronger, despite feeling that it was impossible. And, I guess it was just too much for her to handle. Anyway, that's my post. I'm quite excited to read more, when I'm free. Please avoid spoiling me. 
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Apr 27, 2020 00:16
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Mr. Steak posted:Also, no I will not stop writing his name as "Zorro". Just means you can't use his SA smile :zorro: just doesn't work the same as 
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Apr 27, 2020 02:08
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I'm trans and didn't think anything of the Kuina = trans comment. Part of looking for trans representation for a lot of us is just interpreting the text and making headcanons since it tends to be very rare for their to be a good trans character until relatively recently.
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Apr 27, 2020 02:34
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Something else I randomly just thought about. I'm kinda surprised nobody corrected me about the name "Kuina", since I guess the official translations kept it the same. Since her name (apparently) means a type of bird, I was half expecting people to chime in with her "real" english name of, like, "Raven" or something lol. Since she's the first character so far whose name is written in hiragana, and nobody in this manga seems to ever use honorifics after names, I was actually confused in the first line referencing her, because I didn't catch on that it was supposed to be her name immediately. Also, I know about some characters later with vegetable-themed names that are surely translated from the Japanese names, so that's why I was expecting Kuina to be like that. But I guess not. What's y'all's opinion on if her name was changed to "Raven"? Honestly, I don't think it'd be that bad. It's sort of fitting for her. Even though the type of bird referenced by the word kuina is nothing like a raven, its some bird I've never heard of called a rail. edit: Oh wait Coby absolutely used -sama about Alvida. So nevermind about the honorifics I guess.
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Apr 27, 2020 03:05
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Generally speaking the names are preserved between Japanese and English with a few exceptions. In hindsight, it's a good choice that Kuina's name was kept intact, but saying anything as to why that's the case begins to edge into spoiler/hint territory. Putting that aside, I usually prefer keeping names the same in translations unless it's necessary to localize it to get around untranslatable circumstances.
Julias fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 03:16
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the official translations have been pretty consistent on only changing names if there's some kind of joke or reference in the name that'd be lost on the english audience if it was just kept as japanese, which i think is a pretty good middle ground of how to do it of course translating week-by-week can sometimes mean the translator doesn't know whether or not a joke/reference might be more obvious beyond the inital chapter they're named
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Apr 27, 2020 03:18
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I'm probably the only person that would have preferred it to be translated to Raven, if that is what the word "Kuina" translates to. To western readers it just sounds like a weird foreign name, but to native Japanese people it's the equivalent of calling her "Raven" so it should be translated to keep the same experience of reading. But I've accepted I'm in the smallest minority possible on this stance in the anime community, so I've learned to accept it.
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Apr 27, 2020 05:09
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Roth posted:I'm trans and didn't think anything of the Kuina = trans comment. Part of looking for trans representation for a lot of us is just interpreting the text and making headcanons since it tends to be very rare for their to be a good trans character until relatively recently. Sorry to go off topic,, but I'm curious as to whether Alluka from HxH count as a good example? I always thought her portrayal and treatment by Killua was rather touching, but I don't know how any trans person actually felt about that one. Japan has never done a particularly good job of portraying trans people, but Alluka and more recently Magne from MHA really stuck as good steps forward
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Apr 27, 2020 05:30
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Asuron posted:Japan has never done a particularly good job of portraying trans people, but Alluka and more recently Magne from MHA really stuck as good steps forward Shounen Jump is not all of Japan. There's plenty of good trans-related manga out there, they just don't run in a magazine targeted at 13 year old boys.
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Apr 27, 2020 06:27
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CodfishCartographer posted:I'm probably the only person that would have preferred it to be translated to Raven, if that is what the word "Kuina" translates to. To western readers it just sounds like a weird foreign name, but to native Japanese people it's the equivalent of calling her "Raven" so it should be translated to keep the same experience of reading. Just because a name translates to something doesn't mean that it has to be translated. We don't call people named "Vladimir" Famous Ruler or people called "Jacob" Heel-Grabber.
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Apr 27, 2020 06:48
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Asuron posted:Sorry to go off topic,, but I'm curious as to whether Alluka from HxH count as a good example? I always thought her portrayal and treatment by Killua was rather touching, but I don't know how any trans person actually felt about that one. Alluka's probably the best example in a Shonen Jump comic of a well done trans character. It also show's Togashi's better understanding since that really bad scene in Yu Yu Hakusho.
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Apr 27, 2020 06:48
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Funky Valentine posted:Just because a name translates to something doesn't mean that it has to be translated. On that topic, here is the Wikipedia summary of the famous novel "I Am A Cat" by Natsume Souseki, which features my absolute favorite examples of translated names. It never fails to make me laugh whenever I think about it. quote:In I Am a Cat, a supercilious, feline narrator describes the lives of an assortment of middle-class Japanese people: Mr. Sneaze ("sneeze" is misspelled on purpose, but literally translated from Chinno Kushami (珍野苦沙弥), in the original Japanese) and family (the cat's owners), Sneaze's garrulous and irritating friend Waverhouse (迷亭, Meitei), and the young scholar Avalon Coldmoon (水島寒月, Mizushima Kangetsu) with his will-he-won't-he courtship of the businessman's spoiled daughter, Opula Goldfield (金田富子, Kaneda Tomiko). Also, Pokemon generally does a really good job of translating the character names. It can be done well.
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Apr 27, 2020 07:23
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The official French translation originally translated Zoro as Zorro  Usopp and Sanji got some more significant changes but I'll hold back on those until they're formally introduced.
Somebody fucked around with this message at 10:32 on Apr 27, 2020 |
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Apr 27, 2020 07:43
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Mr. Steak posted:Something else I randomly just thought about. I'm kinda surprised nobody corrected me about the name "Kuina", since I guess the official translations kept it the same. Since her name (apparently) means a type of bird, I was half expecting people to chime in with her "real" english name of, like, "Raven" or something lol. Oda does a bit of themed naming, and has said he likes naming female characters after types of birds. Keep an eye out on that as you go through! I'd never realized Kuina was part of that trend so thank you for sharing.
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Apr 27, 2020 08:02
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For a series as seemingly western at first glance in style and content, Oda absolutely loves wordplay, and uses puns constantly, such as with all of Zoro's attack names (oni giri -> onigiri). I don't envy having to decide what to do with all of them during translation.
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Apr 27, 2020 08:15
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ZiegeDame posted:Shounen Jump is not all of Japan. There's plenty of good trans-related manga out there, they just don't run in a magazine targeted at 13 year old boys. I've read enough work to know that the portrayal, across the entire medium is not particularly good even if there are the occasional exceptions. If you've got any recommendations, feel free to share , I'd love to read it. Plus this is related to shonen, so I was using relevant examples..?
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Apr 27, 2020 09:08
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Can Of Worms posted:The official French translation originally translated Zoro as Zorro Please don't post the names of future characters that haven't been introduced yet, thanks
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Apr 27, 2020 10:33
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Julias posted:Please don't post the names of future characters that haven't been introduced yet, thanks To be fair, Mr. Steak made it clear in the opening post that they already knew about those characters (and their significance).
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Apr 27, 2020 12:54
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its not bad, but the very beginning of one piece is worse than i remember
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Apr 27, 2020 14:30
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tbp posted:its not bad, but the very beginning of one piece is worse than i remember It's the art that's really throwing me off. It looks way stiffer than what Oda does now, lots of straight unadorned lines.
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Apr 27, 2020 14:41
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I think you can see a lot more of a Toriyama influence in the early character designs too. (I know Oda is a big Toriyama fan) Like, that mountain bandit guy from the first chapter looks like someone who would menace a young baby Goku and Coby's got a bit of an early Dragonball look to him as well.
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Apr 27, 2020 15:16
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More I think about it, the more I would like to see a JRPG with designs by Oda like Dragon Quest and Chrono Trigger with Toriyama.
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Apr 27, 2020 15:26
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He should definitely be doing character designs for a whole bunch of things, but unfortunately there's only one of him and I'm already worried that One Piece might be draining all of his life.
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Apr 27, 2020 15:28
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I definitely wouldn't blame him if he fully retired when One Piece is finished.
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Apr 27, 2020 15:35
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Roth posted:More I think about it, the more I would like to see a JRPG with designs by Oda like Dragon Quest and Chrono Trigger with Toriyama. oda taking over DQ's character/monster design after toriyama dies would be great ...well, the part where toriyama dies wouldn't be great but you get what i mean
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Apr 27, 2020 15:35
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Yes, it's a pity that Oda is a human being instead of an immortal fairy like Hiroshiro Araki.
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Apr 27, 2020 15:38
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Oda being human is up for debate, the man's obsession with drawing manga is pure insanity.
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Apr 27, 2020 19:01
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