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Polsy
Mar 23, 2007

Herb is pronounced herb, don't let Americans trick you.

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gandlethorpe
Aug 16, 2008

:gowron::m10:
Redo everything like last time or I attack Wendel

Solis
Feb 2, 2011

Now you can take this knowledge and turn it into part of yourself.
Huh I accidentally picked the same trio as this LP and I'm getting near class change too. I might pick the opposite of what you do for variety!

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



The PCs definitely have more HP than in the original.


Here's Duran at level 1 in the original.


Here's Duran in the remake.

My Duran at level 37 in the remake has just a hair less than 100 fewer HP than my lv 50 endgame file in the Collection.

Also:

Duran nooooo

Also also: Setting an item to a quick slot (L or R + button in the ring menu) will automatically use the item on whoever needs it most.

Voting Riesz Rune Maiden, Hawkeye Ranger, and Angela Delvar.

Folt The Bolt
Feb 21, 2012

Nothing exciting to see here. Move along.

Natural 20 posted:

So a few interesting party combinations:

The Traditional

The most traditional party combination is Light Riesz, Dark Hawk, Light Angela.

The reason for this is that Light Riesz gives you full buff coverage, Dark hawk gives you full debuff coverage and then Light Angela is tremendously likely to be able to nail an enemy on their weak point. This largely results in massive amounts of damage either focused around murdering bosses or murdering normal enemies.

The Party from Last time

A party I like to call "The party from last time" is Light Riesz, Light Hawk, Dark Angela.

This is a little weirder, it relies on the synergy between Riesz and some of Light Hawk's strange buffs, resulting in Riesz being able to hurl out very powerful attacks very frequently. Angela here goes Dark to take advantage of her status effects.

The Casters

This party focuses around attacking spells, Dark Lise, Light Hawk, Dark Angela.

Lise throws out debuffs on enemies as Hawk and Angela land alpha strikes to kill the enemies before they have a chance to react. With the removal of agility from the game, perhaps Hawkeye's magic power is dictated by his intelligence now?

It's the same set-up as the original: the elemental jutsus use Intellect to determine damage, but are learned from a different stat (Luck; appropriate considering Luck took over a good deal of the key features of the Agility stat that weren't excised outright).

Shuriken, like the trap/projectile spells, are determined by Luck vs. enemy's Defense.

In general, anything that deals magic damage is now keyed to Intellect.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015
Forgive me for being boring, but I'm gonna have to vote for Light Girls and Dark Hawkeye. Seems like the most balanced party to me.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.
I was looking at it from the perspective of buff magic and whether you could double up on Light Hawk and Angela with a single int buff.

Pea
Nov 25, 2005
Friendly neighbourhood vegetable

Commander Keene posted:

Voting Riesz Rune Maiden, Hawkeye Ranger, and Angela Delvar.
Seconding this vote because it's not the bog standard "traditional" party and also not the same party as the previous LP.

What struck me in the last update:
- Level ups seem to come and go very fast.
- The game seems to go quite fast from village to village. I expected things to go a lot slower when I saw that using class strikes plays some sort of unskippable animation every time. Maybe because Nat20 only uses them sparingly?
- The jarring moment when the party lands facing the camera and then magically gets switched around for optimal panty shot angle. drat it Japan! :argh:
- Valsena's Hero King basing his looks on a deck of cards

Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!

There's a strawpoll, we're not doing the voting in the thread.

Pea posted:

- The game seems to go quite fast from village to village. I expected things to go a lot slower when I saw that using class strikes plays some sort of unskippable animation every time. Maybe because Nat20 only uses them sparingly?

Only your controlled character goes into locked animation mode during a class strike. The AI using class strikes happens in the background, so to speak.

E: in addition the CS gauge charges somewhat slowly.

Pea posted:

- Valsena's Hero King basing his looks on a deck of cards

Please notice me Caylus-senpai.

Omobono fucked around with this message at 14:10 on May 6, 2020

Folt The Bolt
Feb 21, 2012

Nothing exciting to see here. Move along.

Natural 20 posted:

I was looking at it from the perspective of buff magic and whether you could double up on Light Hawk and Angela with a single int buff.

Mental Boost only affects Poison Bubble, the jutsus, and some of the Nightblade spells.

Traps/Projectiles like Spike, Arrow, Hand Axe, Shuriken, and pretty much all the Rogue spells is just straight up Luck vs. Defense so their damage can only be boosted with a defense debuff and the Crit buff spell.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Ok goons I know this choice is super interesting and all but I have something much more important to discuss:


I noticed the Crimson Wizard's cloak design looks like the Snapchat logo, and now you must all join Nat in being unable to unsee it so you can share his pain.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.


With a day to go, voting looks like this.

Leading is the party of Light Riesz, Dark Hawkeye and Light Angela, thought to be the strongest party in the game.

The most hotly contested of these is the Sorceress, Light Angela against her Dark Counterpart, the Delvar.

As ever, I'm happy to play anything so give me the standard or something off the beaten trail and I'll be delighted to see it.

Bliss Authority
Jul 6, 2011

I'm not saying it was witches

but it was witches

You may have overlooked a cactus in Palo Port.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Bliss Authority posted:

You may have overlooked a cactus in Palo Port.

Well, to be fair, I don't think 20 ever claimed to be particularly observant. Though walking straight past the cactus more than once, even looking right at it, and still missing it... is still pretty bad.

Pea
Nov 25, 2005
Friendly neighbourhood vegetable

Bliss Authority posted:

You may have overlooked a cactus in Palo Port.
I'm happy I'm not the only one who noticed that. :v:

It's probably down to us spectators not having to focus on controlling the characters, which makes it easier to spot things in the background which may get filtered out when you're playing the game yourself.

Other things Nat20 missed:
- a chest on the road to Wendel (next to a tree on the left, after leaving the cave)
- ran straight past Duran in Valsena castle to get to the Machine Golem boss fight in the next room
- he also missed a chest in the town of Valsena. Unless he got it in the latest update? (It was under an overhang of one of the houses bordering the square with the statue of Hero King)
- Wondering if there's a way to get to a chest when the minimap showed another route to get there.

The list will only get longer as the LP goes on but that's ok. Showing off the game as if we were playing ourselves is more interesting in my opinion than watching Nat20 hunt for every item in the game. Half of them will probably go unused anyway.

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



IIRC, the merchant town is called Byzel in the fan translation. The official localization in the Collection uses the same names as the remake, obviously.

CptWedgie posted:

Well, to be fair, I don't think 20 ever claimed to be particularly observant. Though walking straight past the cactus more than once, even looking right at it, and still missing it... is still pretty bad.
Also, he passed by Angela several times in Beiser while musing that he wished he could find her. Granted, live commentary does introduce another item the LPer needs to concentrate on during gameplay. It's just kinda comedic when these things happen.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.
There's a really good reason that I LP alongside Yorkshire Tea!

In all seriousness, talking whilst you're playing takes a fair bit of concentration so it can be easy, especially if you're thinking about what you're going to say to just not really observe things.

If the cactus 100% reward is spectacular then I'll go and get them all offscreen.

turol
Jul 31, 2017
You also missed a shiny in the flower patch.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Natural 20 posted:

There's a really good reason that I LP alongside Yorkshire Tea!

In all seriousness, talking whilst you're playing takes a fair bit of concentration so it can be easy, especially if you're thinking about what you're going to say to just not really observe things.

If the cactus 100% reward is spectacular then I'll go and get them all offscreen.

Some of the cactus things are nice QoL rewards (you can see them all on the cactus screen if you hit... some button that's in the tooltips at the bottom). The 100% one is a Chain Skill ability and ring that boost CS generation such that you can pretty much just wipe every trash group as soon as you engage, but you can't get it until just before the end boss.

If you're trying to gauge how much you should care, I'd say keep looking and don't ignore chests, but you don't have to get everything. unless you're trying to show it off for the LP.

Bruceski fucked around with this message at 20:35 on May 7, 2020

Shitenshi
Mar 12, 2013

Bruceski posted:

Where he had to re-zone? It's a bug. Normally you leave combat mode when you flee. Never seen that happen and I run plenty.

I was referring to more how you can't immediately run away from a battle. You have to wait a little while until the bar fills up, then you can leave a combat situation. It's not like the original, where you can bail at any time, no questions asked.

Pea
Nov 25, 2005
Friendly neighbourhood vegetable

People posted:

You missed a thing, Natural 20.
This answers the question in the thread title, I suppose. :smug:

On another note: It seems a bit cynical to have the party mention that fighting low level enemies is a waste of their time. Especialy given how level grinding is needed in quite a few JRPGs.
Perhaps they implemented the bonus xp to avert this? Or was this present in the original SNES game as well?

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Pea posted:

This answers the question in the thread title, I suppose. :smug:

On another note: It seems a bit cynical to have the party mention that fighting low level enemies is a waste of their time. Especialy given how level grinding is needed in quite a few JRPGs.
Perhaps they implemented the bonus xp to avert this? Or was this present in the original SNES game as well?

Generally didn't need to grind in the original either. The level curve has been tweaked though, so that you hit your first class up about when you reach the first place you CAN class up, and you get the level for your second just before when you can start farming the seeds for it. Basically they eliminated the two spots where someone might mistakenly think they NEED to stay there and gain more levels.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.
Episode 10 - Speciesist

Art will be up shortly.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE
Yes, you could multi-target level 1 elemental spells in the original, but only after the first class change. So there's something to look forward to for you, very soon. Your party is level 16 after all already.

Also "these are somnosa flowers". What did you expect when you traveled to the "somnosa meadow", Riesz?

Anybody else curious where the koropokkur women are?

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Torrannor posted:

Anybody else curious where the koropokkur women are?

I'm more disappointed they didn't put a big Lil' Cactus in there.

gandlethorpe
Aug 16, 2008

:gowron::m10:

Bruceski posted:

I'm more disappointed they didn't put a big Lil' Cactus in there.

Yeah, I think this is my biggest letdown. They missed a golden opportunity there.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.


The final choices are:

Riesz as a Valkyrie
Hawk as a Ninja

And Angela as a tie between Delvar and Sorceress.

Goddamnit goons.

I'll be making my choice on Angela in the heat of the moment, so look forward to that!

Whammiewazzle
Apr 29, 2016


Was that one group of 4 zombies around a harpy deliberately laying a damsel in distress style trap?

Egadsman
Apr 16, 2007

Harcy Pete sounds like a hot sauce brand.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015
Slightly belated since I fell behind a bit on the videos, but... You'd think the Laurent soldiers would comment on Hawkeye's presence, since he's from Nevarl.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011

Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land




Angela's designs are all aggressively horny

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

Faster than the others



Keep in mind that even though Angela's spells are scattered all over her stats, you're gaining levels much faster than in the original version (I'm almost ready for the second class change and I'm about to head into the Mana Holyland for the first time), so it's not as big of a deal. You can also respec your points in the Night Market, so if you know you're going to need a specific elemental's spells for upcoming battles, you can do that.

I notice you're not using the lock-on (press in the right analog stick). Is that a personal choice, or were you not aware of that option? It's not essential for most random encounters, but I found it useful on bosses (where you only have one big thing to keep track of) or if there was a specific enemy I wanted to focus down.

Solis
Feb 2, 2011

Now you can take this knowledge and turn it into part of yourself.

I've played a bit with rogue-rune knight- sorceress now and it's making for an interesting challenge so far. Didn't help I hadn't put anything into spirit for reisz since I assumed it'd be like the original which maxed out your stats before class change...

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.
Episode 13 - WHAT?

Art will be up shortly.

Oo Koo
Nov 19, 2012
You should change the character you control occasionally. Angela and Hawkeye are both fun to play.

Angela, because you can hotkey your spells to the right bumper+facebutton for quick access, so you don't have to pause to fiddle with the spell menu, and can recharge your mana by bludgeoning enemies in melee with reclaim (mp from heavy attacks) from strength 6/12 or victory mp boost (mp from kills) from spirit 4.

Also her melee combos have her swinging her stick like a street punk would swing a golf club or baseball bat and it's hilarious beacause it looks so amateurish, unprincesslike and absolutely in character for her, while still being decently effective from a gameplay perspective. In my opinion she's the character with the best melee animations just out of sheer personality, even if they aren't as devastating as Kevin's or flashy as Hawkeye's.

And Hawkeye is a fun melee/ranged hybrid between his spells, flashy multihit melee combos (his running light attack is this floaty horizontal jump charge pirouette thing and it's great) and quickslotting a stack of thrown weapons (darts are cheap on the night market and scale off of luck).

Riesz is relatively boring to main by comparison, though she has good class strikes and enough cs regen abilities to use them often.

akkristor
Feb 24, 2014

Genova/Zehnoa was A TON harder in the remake than the OG. It was the only fight in the game i burned through all my available Grails. Fun as hell tho!

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Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.


You and everyone else who has played this game. Zenova's fine until the moment you start losing control of the fight, and then B&B are a hoot.

As for avoiding ninja attacks, you have a dodge button. Probably better to learn how to use it sooner rather than later.

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