|
SKULL.GIF posted:posting like this trying to come off as hypercasual is, how do the kids say it? "teh epic" it takes more effort to write like this O_o
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 20:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 17:20 |
|
|
docbeard posted:Some folks have already addressed the more interesting aspects of your premise here, but some reasons why I think we need a general "talk about state of CSPAM" thread, even if it goes beyond the remit of things that CSPAM moderators can do anything tangible about : Yeah I agree QCS is kind of a disaster right now, especially whenever CSPAM is mentioned, but there have been multiple posts by mods in this very thread reminding posters that they don't have power over the admins, other forums, or who is made moderator. There's definitely good feedback and conversation in this thread, but there does seem to be some lack of alignment within the community as what is actually actionable or relevant. e: Son of Thunderbeast posted:Nobody thinks this. I specifically interpreted "meta-forum posting" in the post I quoted as referring to a thread in CSPAM to post about other subforums/QCS. That may have been a misread on my part, but I think it's excusable given that many of the posts in the last 48 hours itt have been about other subforums and mods. TheSlutPit has issued a correction as of 20:57 on May 14, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 20:34
|
|
|
Homeless Friend posted:POSTING *click* mods???
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 20:49
|
|
|
I'd like to say that I appreciate the CSPAM mods and also Burt Sexual and Jose. All other mods are bad and dumb and smell like a backed up toilet.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 21:00
|
|
|
TheSlutPit posted:I specifically interpreted "meta-forum posting" in the post I quoted as referring to a thread in CSPAM to post about other subforums/QCS. That may have been a misread on my part, but I think it's excusable given that many of the posts in the last 48 hours itt have been about other subforums and mods. That's probably my bad, I just meant general posting about forums issues, CSPAM or otherwise.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 21:01
|
|
|
Rastor posted:Lightning Knight does a good job this, except also the mods "thin blue line" tendencies are offputting, especially in light of the Party Plane Jones saga (lol, never forget) to clarify: If you, a mod, are replying to a poster saying "Mod X did this, it was bad", and you find yourself saying "But I know Mod X is a good person" rather than saying "The reason Mod X doing that wasn't bad is this" then that's basically the same thing that caused all that wonderful, hilarious drama back in dec/jan. Vim Fuego has issued a correction as of 21:11 on May 14, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 21:08
|
|
|
Gumball Gumption posted:Honestly it'd just be nice to have more insight into how mods view these issues, what their priorities are, and how they view the different voices. Because a lot of my concern is the fact that the people calling for the closure of C-Spam keep getting told that every argument is listened to and no one in qcs believes in bad faith arguments. And while I do think there are people with real concerns about death threats and child harassment (they're dumb don't do it) I'd also like to know that the people who are pretty much going "Why do all those r-words keep making death threats" are not taken seriously and are recognized as just being troublemakers. Personally, I bought an account because LF went behind the paywall. LF taught me socialism for a few months before Lowtax shut it down and drove me into the cold, desolate wastes of D&D. Needless to say, I like C-SPAM as a spiritual successor to LF and want it to stick around, even if the curse of D&D has proven difficult to remove from me. I don't think C-SPAM is perfect in every way, but no forum on this site is completely perfect. I think the general sentiment among the mods and admins is that we trust the C-SPAM mods to be honestly working to make C-SPAM better. As long as that's the case, I don't think C-SPAM is in any danger of being outright shut down, no matter what gets posted in QCS. Even when problems do crop up, we're well aware that it's typically just a few brainwormed troublemakers rather than the forum as a whole, and we focus our response on "how do we get rid of the brainworms" rather than "how do we get rid of C-SPAM". One of the things that led up to LF's removal was some pretty clear hostility toward it from the admins, who were openly loving with it in various ways in the months leading up to its removal (personally, I saw the writing on the wall when forums cancer was implemented). There's been nothing like that from the current modmins, and I don't really see any behind-the-scenes hostility toward C-SPAM among the team either. I mean, I can't rule out the possibility that someone might write "DELETE C-SPAM" on a $1000 bill and send it to Lowtax along with a complimentary letter telling him how great and funny he is, but that's not going to have anything to do with QCS posts since I'm basically 100% positive Lowtax doesn't read that forum on his own! As for stuff that's going on in QCS and elsewhere, we're aware that QCS is not working well and there's a lot of discussion about how to try to fix it. I'd say that feedback about QCS's problems (especially detailed, specific feedback) is very much welcomed and appreciated, either by posting it in QCS or PMing it directly to any active mod or admin. Of course, with the current state QCS is in, even giving feedback about QCS itself will get poo poo up with garbage. But don't feel like you're obligated to come into QCS just to defend C-SPAM. Whenever someone posts "C-SPAM is full of terrorists making death threats", we can just ask the C-SPAM mods if that's actually true or not.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 21:08
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:I'd like to say that I appreciate the CSPAM mods and also Burt Sexual and Jose. All other mods are bad and dumb and smell like a backed up toilet. 
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 21:15
|
|
|
Ok you're cool too, but only because your av is the best sailor scout* *tied with Sailor Jupiter
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 21:29
|
|
|
feedback: possible that squizzles use of diareses has gotten out of hand. suggestion to limit it to identical vowel pairs only for some time.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 22:17
|
|
|
oxsnard posted:i think before it closes we need to have clarification on what "calls for violence" means. That's honestly my biggest concern. I think we all understand that "PERSON X needs to be assassinated" or "let's firebomb Ted Cruz's office" are not ok, but part of leftism should be in discussing the utility of violence in protesting or pushback against oppression. What about guillotine chat? Or saying "in a just world, Jeff Bezos would be hung for his crimes against society." I don't know if you can draw clear lines, but I'd appreciate more color on this since lots of the QCS activity seems to revolve around this very topic Ok, so, some thoughts. First: I'm not the sole arbiter of this. Generally, all the (ones who are online) CSPAM mods tend to discuss when we get stuff like this that's severe, and it also will generally be reviewed by admins. So it would be worth getting the opinions of others rather than treating my word as law. When I evaluate posts that are either threats or are in some way violent/advocating for violence, I tend to evaluate them primarily on criteria like: how specific are they, how realistic are they, how disgusting or unnerving are they, and are they in any way entertaining or provide comedy value to the forum. I would say those criteria are ordered roughly in the correct order of importance. So, for specificity, I think that there's an important qualitative difference between posting in the communism thread "mao was right [about landlords]" and posting in the gun thread "I'm so angry at my landlord today, what do you guys think I should do?" I feel like that difference should be obvious, but I suppose I could try to articulate for those who don't follow. For realistic, if you say that you want to murder the president using your fleet of alien spaceships, while that is fairly specific, it is clearly not very realistic. By comparison, if you start posting about your plan to acquire materials commonly used in bomb making and going to meetings with people predisposed to ecoterrorism, that is fairly realistic (and not very good). For disgusting and unnerving, this one is fairly subjective. In the case of Ytlaya, he almost never posts (that I see) weird fantasy poo poo like that, and so his sudden veering into being super gross was unpleasant and it also added nothing to the thread. Nobody is very interested in murder porn fantasies, and if you post gross rear end poo poo I don't want to see it. Do I think a week was too harsh? Yeah probably, it should've been like, 3 days. But his post being gross as gently caress falls into this category. Lastly, is it funny. This one is relevant all the time for moderation - if you're funny enough you can often get away with posting outrageous things, see Yeowch, My Balls! But this is a thin line to walk. A good example was a joke TikTok video posted a few months ago with some teenager talking about assassinating Joe Biden, but in a manner that clearly did not demonstrate they had the means or plans to do so. That's not something I would encourage anyone here to make, but it was in fact extremely funny so I let it go. Most things in the death threats/violence posting don't tend to work for this, since they tend to usually not be very funny at all. This is all subjective, and I can't give you an objective measurement of "it's ok to post exactly this much violent content and no more" because that's not really workable. I would summarize my philosophy as "it's ok to say that we should guillotine the rich, it's not ok to post about which specific rich people you want to guillotine and why, or describe in detail how much you get off on this thought." Both because, the latter is not interesting content, it can get us in trouble, and usually, it's just kind of cringeworthy. I again reiterate that I am not some final arbiter or The Boss Mod on this topic and I invite other CSPAM mods to offer their views.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 23:42
|
|
|
I'm not a C-SPAM superstar and nor do I follow forums drama super closely, but I think the question centers mostly on something like this: "Left wing thought and communism specifically are revolutionary concepts definitionally. You can look at countless examples historically but to take something most posters here have followed enough to know the particulars, look at how much liberal democrats did and showed they were willing to further do in order to prevent poors from getting healthcare. It should be clear to anyone with a cursory understanding of leftist positions and contemporary American politics that reform within the system in general and via electoral politics in particular, is not possible. If change is to occur it will have to come through another route." Where would something along those lines fall?
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2020 23:58
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:One of the things that led up to LF's removal was some pretty clear hostility toward it from the admins, who were openly loving with it in various ways in the months leading up to its removal (personally, I saw the writing on the wall when forums cancer was implemented). There's been nothing like that from the current modmins,  "current" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here, and most of the people who gladly enabled ppj are still around and making bad thin blue line decisions
Yinlock has issued a correction as of 00:30 on May 15, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 00:26
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:Ok, so, some thoughts. i dont have much to add to this, except to say that the history of legal antagonism against left movements, leftist culture, and social organizing is robust enough that i tend to examine things in cspam according to a standard that i wouldnt use in other spaces on the forums. my responsibility as a mod isnt to harmonize the experience of cspam w the experience of the rest of the forums—it is to try to support the health, welfare, and sustainable continuity of cspam as a community. that means that this shitposting subforum will sometimes not allow some statements or styles that would be acceptable even in a more formal space on the forums. cspam exists as part of the forums, and it is a looser, less rules-bound space than is the forums norm, but that does not mean that everything allowed somewhere on the forums is going to be ok in cspam. sometimes, things will become more or less acceptable over time, in response to shifting context (i also dont think that my responsibility as a mod involves closely policing preferences like grammar, musical taste, or bill mitchell tweets. pushing the cspam culture around has customarily been part of ik discretion, and im happy to see that continue.)
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 01:26
|
|
|
Yinlock posted:
mods are more like building superintendents than cops or dictators. someone has to have the keys to the boiler room, or to every apartment, but you dont necessarily want everyone to have them. there are some functions the forums, as they are constituted, require some person or people be capable of performing; but the potential for abuse means that you dont want to give all of those keys to everyone who enters the building. and just like many people might be great superintendents, the forums have tons of folks who would be good-to-great mods. but once you have enough mods that the toilets are getting unclogged quickly and the radiator leaks are mended well, you dont need to keep adding them. not because its a position of power and people often like to hoard power—but because it really is just about satisfying the needs of the forums, and you dont need to add too many people for that usually
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 01:37
|
|
|
LastInLine posted:I'm not a C-SPAM superstar and nor do I follow forums drama super closely, but I think the question centers mostly on something like this: I think this is a fine thing to post, but also to remember that ultimately, this is an aging comedy forum and not a platform to plan your revolutionary movement. There's a difference between discussing theory and drifting into planning, and we must keep that kind of line in mind in an age of the digital panopticon.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 01:45
|
|
|
You'll never find my death threats coppers
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 01:51
|
|
|
Homeless Friend posted:You'll never find my death threats coppers reported (free extrea reports?? $ $ $ $ M O N E Y)
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 02:03
|
|
|
Squizzle posted:mods are more like building superintendents than cops or dictators. someone has to have the keys to the boiler room, or to every apartment, but you dont necessarily want everyone to have them. there are some functions the forums, as they are constituted, require some person or people be capable of performing; but the potential for abuse means that you dont want to give all of those keys to everyone who enters the building. and just like many people might be great superintendents, the forums have tons of folks who would be good-to-great mods. but once you have enough mods that the toilets are getting unclogged quickly and the radiator leaks are mended well, you dont need to keep adding them. not because its a position of power and people often like to hoard power—but because it really is just about satisfying the needs of the forums, and you dont need to add too many people for that usually i was not saying "more mods" i was saying "no some mods clearly still hold a grudge against c-spam(or, at least, blatantly abused their power to cover for a fuckin nazi) and the thin blue line attitude stops them from ever being accountable" like remember when the coupons mod went on a rampage to defend ppj's e-honor, we never even got an apology for that. e: mods and admins also tend to pop up in strange places to defend other mods/admins who are being called out on bad decisions Yinlock has issued a correction as of 02:50 on May 15, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 02:42
|
|
|
Yinlock posted:like remember when the coupons mod went on a rampage to defend ppj's e-honor, we never even got an apology for that. gently caress an apology, I want at least an explanation lol. That was so out of nowhere and baffling and it's honestly the part about the PPJ saga that has me laugh when I think about it. 
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 04:26
|
|
|
ArfJason posted:reported (free extrea reports?? $ $ $ $ M O N E Y) gently caress off. You aren't funny. At all. LOL
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 04:31
|
|
|
Arf is basically Gallagher. He's got one bit we're all waiting for and everything else is filler.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 04:36
|
|
|
Good Soldier Svejk posted:Arf is basically Gallagher. He's got one bit we're all waiting for and everything else is filler. yeah the john pentium one owns
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 04:39
|
|
|
Remember when FYAD got deleted and somehow schoolyard bullies like Arf got perma'd and somehow Arf, Lucavi, and woozy all somehow avoided a perma and Jack Daniels somehow got his perma reversed after being a huge piece of poo poo? LMFAO
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 04:39
|
|
|
These people still think they're the funny ones who dictate what comedy is on these forums lol
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 04:40
|
|
|
Squizzle posted:mods are more like building superintendents than cops or dictators. Not all mods agree. In fact I can think of one in particular who said it was their job to dictate the culture of their subforum.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 05:05
|
|
|
I think those are really nice ways to think of yourselves but they don't stand up to two realities. First, mods do play a role in culture, a really big one, because mods pretty much decide what the rules are and how enforcement of rules happens. That has a huge effect on a culture. Second, you're always going to have an outsized voice if you like it or not. Humans are stupid so our brains are always going to give extra importance to the person wearing the stupid badge. Especially if that person has any sort of power over us. Being a mod isn't that powerful but it's enough that you're going to have an oversized voice. edit: As a specific example of number 1, a lot of people asked for harder crackdowns on slurs but that didn't happen until mods put it in effect, because they're gatekeepers on what rules get put in place, and those changes have had a big effect on forums culture. Spotty enforcement and different mod attitudes also means that the culture from sub to sub in regards to slurs is different. That's primarily mods effecting forum culture. Gumball Gumption has issued a correction as of 05:40 on May 15, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 05:34
|
|
|
moderators are basicall y all kamala harris if u think about it &our posts r the labor ur unjustly profiting from to fulfill ur petty fantasies of control
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 05:39
|
|
|
u disgust me &i love it
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 05:40
|
|
|
Elephant Ambush posted:Remember when FYAD got deleted and somehow schoolyard bullies like Arf got perma'd and somehow Arf, Lucavi, and woozy all somehow avoided a perma and Jack Daniels somehow got his perma reversed after being a huge piece of poo poo? LMFAO Probably because those three didn't do anything deserving of a permaban. At least afaik
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 05:49
|
|
|
arf was never perma'd because he didnt do anything lmao. keep making stuff up though
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 06:23
|
|
|
let's actually not relitigate fyad for the millionth time
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 06:29
|
|
|
Elephant Ambush posted:Remember when FYAD got deleted and somehow schoolyard bullies like Arf got perma'd and somehow Arf, Lucavi, and woozy all somehow avoided a perma and Jack Daniels somehow got his perma reversed after being a huge piece of poo poo? LMFAO ahahahaha what in the world
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 08:09
|
|
|
why does arfjason get such a fearsome rep, its bullsh*t
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 08:12
|
|
|
Homeless Friend posted:why does arfjason get such a fearsome rep, its bullsh*t i posted Reverend Modem one too many times and now at least 5 different subforums want me dead e: 4 because the star citizen one got dissolved
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 08:15
|
|
|
richard scsi
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 08:23
|
|
|
albert politics
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 08:36
|
|
|
arf owns and is a good poster
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 09:54
|
|
|
Homeless Friend posted:why does arfjason get such a fearsome rep, its bullsh*t his posting is too powerful to be contained
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 10:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 17:20 |
|
|
Who What Now posted:Not all mods agree. In fact I can think of one in particular who said it was their job to dictate the culture of their subforum. read: “C-SPAM mods” It is difficult to make clearcut rules about things like threats. Obviously direct actionable calls for violence are not ok, but beyond that there is a grey area where people say all kinds of stuff, and many feel the need for whatever reason to go right up to any line in the sand that has been drawn and figure out ways to flaunt it or to get around it. Human written communication is complex and filled with nuance, there is subtext and context. A given statement can appear harmless in one situation but seem much more serious in another. It’s a dynamic fluid situation. Having read everyone’s input about how they want c-spam to be modded, I get the impression that the vast majority share my philosophy of trying to have a light touch whenever possible, outside of the things which are universally intolerable, such as death threats and slurs. As stated above, it’s not always clear and when in doubt we often chat about it in the reports before trying to figure out what to do, and because of that there is hopefully a less tyrannical situation modding situation here than elsewhere, because there are multiple opinions involved. But it’s also worth noting that probes and bans aren’t the only things mods do. If there is a milder or more ambiguous situation we can just jump into the conversation and figure out what’s going on, or encourage people to deescalate a heated posting situation by just politely asking people to calm down a bit. The other day there was a kerfuffle about homophobia in the anime thread but I had no idea what the hell the conversation was about so I posted in the thread to figure out what everyone was complaining about, and listened to what they all had to say before doing anything. I think we all agree that c-spam was not being modded well in the past (think of late last year), and we are trying to do a better job of it, be more transparent, and actually listen to what c-spam has to say about how it wants to exist as a community, and what it does and does not tolerate. That’s why this thread exists, for instance. And even though it will close soon and reopen in a few months, it’s still possible in the meantime to PM us or otherwise reach out to us and point things out and discuss things with us. Don’t like the way I’m doing things? Let me know! [How’s my modding? bumper sticker]
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2020 10:49
|
|
