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Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
What's always confused me is the folks I've known who dismiss history as boring, but then can recount the entirety of the extended history of Middle Earth. Sure there's no magic and fantasy creatures in real history, but it's full of insane drama that is often super compelling.

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Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Good news: Minnesota is finally banning child marriage!
Bad news: It'll be only the third state in the country to have done so...

https://twitter.com/StarTribune/status/1258097668536111106?s=19

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Yeah, one of the reasons house-owners in my old neighborhood opposed replacing SFH with low-rise multi-family units or adding bike lanes to the street was that it might reduce "their" street parking and all of the dumb shits had packed their garages far too full of literal junk to fit their cars in any more.

Also racism/classism. Woo.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

bulletsponge13 posted:

It's weird how related rural and urban driving are. "I want a burger"- 20 minutes stop and go to go five miles and cross a bridge; Urban
Eh, with any properly planned urban area with actual density, though, you typically have a couple dozen burger options within 20 minutes by foot.

Unfortunately, the car has reigned supreme in our urban planning since WW2, so most American cities are terribly, terribly planned.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Handsome Ralph posted:

I mean 35 voted against it (including King who caucuses with them) but yeah sure, whatever you need to tell yourself to so you can chant "dems bad" at every turn.
This. As much as I'm wildly dissatisfied with Dem leadership, the old "10 Dems did something stupid, therefore all bad" schtick is just silly and fosters rejectionists attitudes over trying to actually change things.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Holy poo poo, FBI pursuing Burr on his Coronavirus-motivated stock sell-off.

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1260751783682441216?s=19

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

bulletsponge13 posted:

My biggest takeaway has been the absolute failure of the American Public School system. The amount of people who do not understand basic concepts of math, science, and medicine- in areas that should be covered in school has broke my brain.


That and that 30% of America are cultists with no views beyond what dear leader tells them.

I'm gonna place the blame on the parents and communities more than anything. Public school can only do so much when you grow up in an anti-intellectual and authoritarian atmosphere.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Someone buy an emoji that's this one :drat: but :dam:, instead

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Also important to recognize that a lot of liberals and conservatives genuinely (and stupidly) believed that China's opening to world markets and rising middle class would somehow inherently lead to at least nominal democracy.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Midjack posted:

China was here before us; China will be here after we are gone, largely unchanged. They may be terrible in a lot of ways but they have staying power.
While I'm certainly no historian, much less of Chinese history, but the whole "one 5,000-year-old unified Chinese civilization" is a giant crock that has been vigorously promoted by the CCP to boost its legitimacy abroad and crush dissent and diversity among the peoples it controls.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
I'm awfully curious about the decision Amazon made to locate their primary HQ in the core of a metro area rather than directly contribute to sprawl by building on the lower density outskirts like so many other tech companies. It's just so wildly at odds with trends from the other big players and can't come down merely to Seattle offering a bigger bribe than one of the 'burbs.

My main opposition to telework becoming the default comes down to believing dense, diverse neighborhoods are incredibly beneficial from both an environmental and social perspective. Sure, employers are only an artificial anchor for this, but considering how much we subsidize low-density, car-reliant sprawl in the exurbs and actively ignore the externalities of doing so, I figure maintaining at least one big counterbalance is fair.

Of course, companies everywhere have long done an utter poo poo job of accommodating telework when employees would be much better off at least having the option to do as necessary. I just always need to jump in and try to tap the brakes when I see discussion that could lead to tech workers dispersing into the hinterlands and losing what little contact they still have with the real world.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
I do worry that big tech corps that start ditching physical offices entirely wouldn't stop at letting their employees work in a barn in Nebraska for lower compensation, but instead go on to pushing through policy that makes it facile to just hire workers that are based entirely overseas and can be paid marginally higher than the American minimum wage, if even. We could look forward to a further hollowing out of the American middle class and a Rust Belt 2.0.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

facialimpediment posted:

Donnie's going golfing. Mission accomplished!
As always, there's a tweet for everything.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/525495434928988160

We'll likely hit 100k+ deaths today.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
On the one hand, neither India or China would materially benefit from a border dispute conflict and certainly not full-out war, but when you put two overconfident strongmen in a room and both feel like being seen to back down would undermine their rule, the odds they'll settle on a mutually face-saving modus vivendi edge downward.

As a fan of neither country's leadership, the only thing holding me back from rooting them on to all-out war would be the mind-boggling civilian death toll.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Fallom posted:

People drive Teslas like loving idiots in a brand new way because of their insane torque and acceleration curve
Former coworker who always talked of being strapped for cash got one after his other car died and the first thing he did when getting a bunch of us in it to go out for lunch was launch into a turn at way too high a speed.

Was oddly out of character as he was otherwise a very level-headed and chill dude.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Cross posting from the Minnesota thread, but poo poo seems to be kicking off in Minneapolis. MPD appears to be responding to the protest with a massive show of force, tear gas, and flashbangs...
https://twitter.com/KeaonDousti/status/1265437893255933954?s=19
https://twitter.com/BLongStPaul/status/1265444444129591296?s=19

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
:sigh:

So forgive me for inhabiting bizarro-world, but I'm absolutely baffled by the dominate narrative about how the protests evolved into a riot. My apparently unique read on events is that the MPD left the precinct and now other sites completely undefended in a deliberate invitation to the more uninhibited protesters to cause a little damage and thus justify massively disproportionate police escalation that further inflames tensions. They've since reworked the tactic several times to ensure continued escalation.

Why? Because the shift to a riot allows the police to control the broader narrative. They're betting that Jane Schmo might have watched the video of the police murder of George Floyd and said, "That could have been me/my neighbor/my coworker/etc., we need police accountability," but is now being hammered with news about poo poo burning and thinking "That could be affect me/my neighbor/my coworker/etc., maybe I'll just accept the bad system because this chaos is a more imminent threat."

What am I missing? Are we just hoping that the former thought will still win out over the latter? 'cause I'm worried peoples' brains don't work that way.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

facialimpediment posted:

In the Minneapolis case, everything going on right now is just a result of the police department being dumb and bad.
See, I don't buy this and I'm very worried that folks are confusing "racist shitbags" with "incompetent idiots" when it comes to the people people calling the shots in the MPD. They're betting that the chaos that is unfolding is going to push a huge number of residents who hadn't previously given much thought to either side decisively over to supporting a crackdown.

The city PD isn't exactly green when it comes to handling protests. There's been multiple police crimes in the last decade that have prompted massive protests that have been, in turn, met with a massive, but relatively subdued response. All that previously demonstrated capability to respond to a protest mysteriously vanished and was replaced with an approach that has sparked a massive blowup in a way that the department and its allies might exploit to make the case for a heavy-handed department free from political interference from the city's elected representatives.

I mean, they left the precinct in the district completely undefended and with high-value targets just sitting in the open, but happened to swoop in with overwhelming force once they had their pretext of people breaking a few things. I'd like it to be incompetence, but I fear it's a deliberate strategy by profoundly bad people pulling the strings at the department.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Hekk posted:

I am not from the area but it looks like looters had enough sense to loot the nicer areas instead of loving over the poor dumb bastards trying to eek out a living in the hood part of town.
The areas receiving the brunt of the damage are definitely not typically regarded as the "nicer" areas. That stretch of Lake Street has seen a lot of reinvestment from the city and there's a smattering of new-looking, mid-rise, affordable housing development going up on the transit corridor that internet onlookers seem to be confusing with ~*luxury condos*~.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

Big Dave, you aren't the only one that feels that way
I'm just flabbergasted by the nihilism. As much as I hate making a South Park reference, my timeline is filled with underpants gnome logic:

quote:

1. Riots
2. ???
3. A just system
There's a conflation of the riots being "justified" with them being a positive tactic toward advancing the cause. Same with looting—arguing that "capitalism is the real looting" neglects to acknowledge the terrible loving optics that will push scared residents into the arms of the fundamentally broken police force.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: the awful people making decisions in the Twin Cities police forces appear to have actively invited rioting to win the public over to their side and accelerationists are giving them exactly what they want.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

This is the other side:
I'm not the one you need to convince, it's the low information family a few blocks away that is terrified they will be personally impacted.

Should they also be worried about being impacted by wanton police crimes? Absolutely! But that's not what is front and center in peoples' minds right now.

We can explain amongst ourselves all we want how the other side is worse, but unless we can persuasively make that argument to the broader public, they're going to side with the strongman that says they'll take their fear away.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Doc Hawkins posted:

White moderates are poo poo
100% agreed, but so how do we overcome that reality?

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Fister Roboto posted:

So what's the alternative? Everybody go home and wait for cops to pinky swear that they'll stop killing black people? Maybe have a few peaceful protests that are easy and convenient to ignore?

This is happening not because it's the best option, but because there literally is no other option.
Organize. Fill the vacuum that the systemically-broken police force has deliberately left and show that the community is strong, united, and doesn't need some occupying force from the loving 'burbs to keep the peace.

Edit: hell, we've even seen this on a small scale with everyday folk intervening to stop bad actors and provocateurs, just not on the scale needed.

Cugel the Clever fucked around with this message at 07:18 on May 29, 2020

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Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Jesus gently caress, for a thread that's repeatedly talked about right wing extremists eager to start the electric boogaloo, suddenly the idea is preposterous? I was seeing tweets all loving night from Twin Cities protestors that mysterious masked white folk were on an arson spree well away from the protest, targeting residences along with small, community-owned businesses especially in majority-minority areas.

Is it really that hard to believe the baddies are exploiting the situation to their own ends?

Edit:
https://twitter.com/kar_nels/status/1266724690476892160?s=19

Cugel the Clever fucked around with this message at 16:50 on May 30, 2020

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