Could the Canadian Football League fold?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > Could the Canadian Football League fold?

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Edward Mass: Sep 14, 2011; 𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen𝅘𝅥𝅮

New York Post (yes, I know) posted:

OTTAWA, Ontario � Canadian Football League Commissioner Randy Ambrosie said the most likely scenario is to cancel the season because of the coronavirus pandemic.

Ambrosie made the admission Thursday in testimony to a House of Commons standing committee on finance. He appeared via video during a panel on arts, culture, sports and charitable organizations after news broke last week that the CFL requested up to $150 million Canadian in assistance from the federal government.

The commissioner said the league�s future is �very much in jeopardy� and that teams collectively lost about $20 million last year.

�Ours is a big brand but not a wealthy business,� Ambrosie said. �Unlike large U.S.-based leagues, our biggest source of revenue is not TV � it�s ticket sales.

�Governments coping with COVID 19 � for reasons of public health that we totally support � have made it impossible for us to do what we do. Our best-case scenario for this year is a drastically truncated season. And our most likely scenario is no season at all.�

The CFL has already canceled the start of training camps � which were scheduled to open this month � and pushed back the opening of the regular season to early July, at the earliest.

�I don�t mind telling you, this is humbling but the fact is we need your support,� Ambrosie said. �So we can be there for all the community groups that depend on us.�

Following Ambrosie�s presentation, committee members took turns taking the commissioner to task.

�Some of your comments have a lot of holes in them,� said Kevin Waugh, a former sports journalist from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. He asked if the CFL was looking for a bailout or loan?

�What we�re looking for is a partnership with government,� Ambrosie said. �Our fundamental position is that we are looking for financial support that we want to pay back to Canadians. If it�s in the form of a loan, perhaps we pay some of that loan back through programs . . . we�re really looking for a business relationship that would be good for Canadians in the long run.�

Waugh also pointed out the CFL�s three community-based franchises � the Edmonton Eskimos, Saskatchewan Roughriders and Winnipeg Blue Bombers � all turned seven-figure profits in 2018. He added the league�s six remaining franchises are privately owned by people or corporations with deep pockets.

�The fact is that in the face of essentially a zero-revenue model, all of our teams, including our community teams, are going to suffer significant losses that are going to be hard to recover from,� Ambrosie said. �The real issue is this crisis is essentially going to quadruple or more the financial losses that our teams will take in a season that could potentially be lost altogether.�

Peter Julian of New Westminster-Burnaby in British Columbia wondered why Ambrosie�s presentation didn�t include any presence by the CFL Players� Association.

�Those are the world-class athletes, as you�ve said, that actually are the heart and soul of the CFL,� Julian said. �What would they be saying if they were before the committee? And how much of the financial support you�re requesting would be going directly to the players of the CFL?�

The CFL and its players have resumed meeting about potential contingency plans for the �20 season after talks broke off for roughly two weeks. Ambrosie said Thursday the two sides are scheduled to gather Friday.

�As for how much will go to players, we have to work that out,� Ambrosie said. �We know, for example, our players and alumni could be a potential solution in the healing of Canada.�

Julian also questioned Ambrosie about some of the corporations and individuals involved in CFL ownership. He added at a time when many Canadians are struggling, why isn�t the league�s wealthier ownership, �stepping up to provide support for the CFL?�

�All of those groups and people you mentioned have been stepping up,� Ambrosie said. �The question really for us is how many losses can these owners take when they�ve been losing approximately in total $20 million a year?

�And there is now, of course, a dramatically accelerated level of losses that will come with a truncated season or a lost season altogether.�

Peter Fragiskatos of London North Centre in Ontario asked Ambrosie why the CFL had approached government and not banks for financial assistance.

�I think the answer lies in the fact that as a league last year we lost approximately $20 million,� Ambrosie said. �First of all some of our teams are community teams that, by virtue of their structure, can�t take on traditional commercial credit.�

Fragiskatos countered, �If banks won�t support the CFL, why should the federal government support the CFL?�

�It�s not a question of whether banks would support us,� Ambrosie said. �The issue is you�re now taking a $20 million loss and you�re almost certainly making that loss bigger in future years.�

It's pretty distressing hearing that the CFL is in danger according to the commissioner, although I could imagine the NFL with a fork and knife banging the table, looking for international teams. And, of course, I'm going off the commissioner's word.

# ? May 8, 2020 20:26

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# ? May 2, 2024 22:34

barnold: Dec 16, 2011; what do u do when yuo're born to play fps? guess there's nothing left to do but play fps. boom headshot

Move those uprights to the back of the endzone and let's play ball, God Bless :911:

# ? May 10, 2020 19:37

Barudak: May 7, 2007

They make most of their revenue from tickets? Ooof. I assume they might be able to get a floater loan for a year, but anything longer and thats it.

And yeah, NFL would bring out the forks and knives if they fold

# ? May 11, 2020 02:38

Ches Neckbeard: Dec 3, 2005; You're all garbage, back up the truck BACK IT UP!

Hasn't the NFL stayed out of Canada because of various labor laws and taxes that don't exist or the NFL got exemptions from in the states?

# ? May 11, 2020 04:53

Barudak: May 7, 2007

Ches Neckbeard posted:

Hasn't the NFL stayed out of Canada because of various labor laws and taxes that don't exist or the NFL got exemptions from in the states?

They might, I dont know the total scope. They play enough games overseas that moving Buffalo across the lake and the Chargers to a city where they might have a fanbase while capturing a now totally unserved market that speaks english might be worth it

# ? May 11, 2020 07:16

Ches Neckbeard: Dec 3, 2005; You're all garbage, back up the truck BACK IT UP!

I'd hate to see the table smash riots if they tried to move the Bills. I'd expect something like the last 90's Browns game.

# ? May 11, 2020 16:40

El Gallinero Gros: Mar 17, 2010

Ches Neckbeard posted:

I'd hate to see the table smash riots if they tried to move the Bills. I'd expect something like the last 90's Browns game.

Weren't the Bills real close to moving to Toronto, and that's why they kept having preseason games there?

# ? May 11, 2020 19:11

Darude - Adam Sandstorm: Aug 16, 2012

The CFL isn't going to fold. Most of the teams are owned by billionaires and most of the cities have built or reno'd stadiums specifically for the teams in the last decade. They'll get the money or else cities like Regina and Hamilton will be left with hundreds of millions in costs for useless stadiums instead of hundreds of millions in costs for stadiums with 10 games a year.

# ? May 11, 2020 22:19

MoaM: Dec 1, 2009; Joyous.

Has a league ever...contracted before?

# ? May 12, 2020 02:29

Edward Mass: Sep 14, 2011; 𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen𝅘𝅥𝅮

MoaM posted:

Has a league ever...contracted before?

The CFL did! Way back in the 1990's, they contracted a whole mess of teams! Granted, they were all located in the United States.

# ? May 12, 2020 02:49

Kawalimus: Jan 17, 2008; Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism

Edward Mass posted:

The CFL did! Way back in the 1990's, they contracted a whole mess of teams! Granted, they were all located in the United States.

Baltimore Stallions were a team in the 1990s. They even won the Grey Cup with OJ Brigance on the team who then won the SB with the Ravens and now has ALS. They didn't contract though they moved to Montreal iirc. Baltimore is the only city to have both a Grey Cup and a Superbowl. And an NFL Championship too

# ? May 12, 2020 02:58

Cavauro: Jan 9, 2008

There's one more city that has all of those and more, but I won't say which one.

# ? May 12, 2020 03:01

Kawalimus: Jan 17, 2008; Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism

I looked up all the Grey Cup winners and no other US city has a Grey Cup so that is not possible.

# ? May 12, 2020 03:05

Mystic Stylez: Dec 19, 2009

don't forget that Baltimore has an USFL championship too lol

# ? May 12, 2020 03:32

Kawalimus: Jan 17, 2008; Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism

Yeah they were called the Baltimore Stars. But I wasn't alive when they won.

# ? May 12, 2020 03:35

Kawalimus: Jan 17, 2008; Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism

I remember I went to one or two Baltimore Stallions games. One with my dad and sisters but I don't remember much of that one. The other one was with some other kid from my neighborhood and his family. All I remember is we played some Canadian team I think it was Ottawa. And the Stallions were up like 42-0. And me and the other kid kept running up the stairs at the stadium and screaming like "WE ARE NOT WINNING. WE'VE WON!!" I think the records indicate that this was a preseason game.

# ? May 12, 2020 03:43

Cavauro: Jan 9, 2008

One more city

# ? May 12, 2020 03:47

Kawalimus: Jan 17, 2008; Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism

There aren't anymore cities. But it's weird how the first loser of the Grey Cup was the "Toronto Parkdale Canoe Club". Don't know what was going on there. But I won't ask questions.

# ? May 12, 2020 03:49

Kawalimus: Jan 17, 2008; Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism

Wait I do remember something about the one with my dad. But nothing about the game. I remember we didn't get there till like the end of the first half. I don't know what happened. I wasn't even that excited to go but then we were having some problem getting there and my dad started getting real frustrated like he always did. And I was like "I can't believe we're gonna miss the whole thing" which was a quote from some old show on cartoon network called "The Moxy Show" that they would always show on promotions on that channel. Then my dad was like "well looks like we are not even going to get there!" and I got real upset and slammed my head into the car door(inside) and punched it real emotional. I don't know why I did that as I didn't even care about the games back then. I was just intrigued to see football for the first time in my life I think and was mad I wasn't going to get to. But we did get there. I just don't remember a single thing about the game. The only football game I attended about which I have zero memories.

# ? May 12, 2020 03:57

Mystic Stylez: Dec 19, 2009

if you are reading this post and never concussed yourself by banging your head against the car door you're a goddamn liar

# ? May 12, 2020 04:19

Hot Diggity!: Apr 3, 2010; SKELITON_BRINGING_U_ON.GIF

Football

# ? May 12, 2020 04:53

Tank44: Jun 13, 2005; We want the ball & We're going to score

Edward Mass posted:

The CFL did! Way back in the 1990's, they contracted a whole mess of teams! Granted, they were all located in the United States.

CFL teams in the United states included:
Baltimore Stallions
Sacramento gold miners
San antonio Texans
Las vegas posse
Memphis mad dogs
Shreveport pirates
Birmingham barracudas

# ? May 12, 2020 06:52

Kawalimus: Jan 17, 2008; Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism

Apparently the Stallions did fold, but more or less reformed under the same ownership and lots of the players as Montreal. That's so weird.

# ? May 12, 2020 11:55

Qwijib0: Apr 10, 2007; Who needs on-field skills when you can dance like this?; Fun Shoe

in the absence of other sport, I think a lot of the US would watch off-by-one football in :911:

# ? May 12, 2020 17:20

Darude - Adam Sandstorm: Aug 16, 2012

MoaM posted:

Has a league ever...contracted before?

In terms of Canadian teams both Montreal and Ottawa have left altogether for several years before returning.

# ? May 12, 2020 18:55

CannonFodder: Jan 26, 2001; Passion’s Wrench

Barudak posted:

They might, I dont know the total scope. They play enough games overseas that moving Buffalo across the lake and the Chargers to a city where they might have a fanbase while capturing a now totally unserved market that speaks english might be worth it

Montreal Chargeurs.

# ? May 12, 2020 21:06

Tank44: Jun 13, 2005; We want the ball & We're going to score

Barudak posted:

They might, I dont know the total scope. They play enough games overseas that moving Buffalo across the lake and the Chargers to a city where they might have a fanbase while capturing a now totally unserved market that speaks english might be worth it

One oddity is that CFL has better attendance in the mid-major markets than the big 3 markets. Yes, it would still make sense for NFL to go to the big 2-3 first but you have to consider Edmonton and some other of the smaller markets.

2019 average attendance & % of capacity:

Saskatchewan (Regina) - 30,723, 92%
Edmonton - 29,341, 53%
Calgary - 27,027, 76%
Winnipeg - 25,414, 77%
Hamilton - 23,271, 96%
Ottawa - 22,605, 92%
BC (Vancouver) - 17,803, 65%
Montreal - 17,574, 88%
Toronto - 12,493, 48%

# ? May 12, 2020 22:17

MakaVillian: Aug 16, 2003; Well, in Whoville they say - that his tiny hands grew three sizes that day.

Tank44 posted:

One oddity is that CFL has better attendance in the mid-major markets than the big 3 markets. Yes, it would still make sense for NFL to go to the big 2-3 first but you have to consider Edmonton and some other of the smaller markets.

2019 average attendance & % of capacity:

Saskatchewan (Regina) - 30,723, 92%
Edmonton - 29,341, 53%
Calgary - 27,027, 76%
Winnipeg - 25,414, 77%
Hamilton - 23,271, 96%
Ottawa - 22,605, 92%
BC (Vancouver) - 17,803, 65%
Montreal - 17,574, 88%
Toronto - 12,493, 48%

The only Canadian city the NFL would ever expand to is Toronto.

# ? May 12, 2020 23:43

Elephanthead: Sep 11, 2008; Toilet Rascal

MakaVillian posted:

The only Canadian city the NFL would ever expand to is Toronto.

Pretty sure Michigan is willing to give Detroit to Windsor, the whole city and team.

# ? May 13, 2020 00:58

Darude - Adam Sandstorm: Aug 16, 2012

Ya but we don't even want Windsor, why would we want Detroit too?

# ? May 13, 2020 01:00

mr. unhsib: Sep 19, 2003; I hate you all.

Tank44 posted:

One oddity is that CFL has better attendance in the mid-major markets than the big 3 markets. Yes, it would still make sense for NFL to go to the big 2-3 first but you have to consider Edmonton and some other of the smaller markets.

2019 average attendance & % of capacity:

Saskatchewan (Regina) - 30,723, 92%
Edmonton - 29,341, 53%
Calgary - 27,027, 76%
Winnipeg - 25,414, 77%
Hamilton - 23,271, 96%
Ottawa - 22,605, 92%
BC (Vancouver) - 17,803, 65%
Montreal - 17,574, 88%
Toronto - 12,493, 48%

Every CFL team basically exists to justify the existence of the Saskatchewan Roughriders. 50% of all branded CFL apparel sold is for the riders.

# ? May 13, 2020 21:09

Edward Mass: Sep 14, 2011; 𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen𝅘𝅥𝅮

mr. unhsib posted:

Every CFL team basically exists to justify the existence of the Saskatchewan Roughriders. 50% of all branded CFL apparel sold is for the riders.

I mean, the Roughriders are the only game in town for a whole province.

# ? May 13, 2020 22:10

Eifert Posting: Apr 1, 2007; Most of the time he catches it every time.; Grimey Drawer

I hate the cold with a fire that few others manage but I would go to a home game for the Rough Riders. With those fans it just seems like an experience.

# ? May 14, 2020 13:46

Darude - Adam Sandstorm: Aug 16, 2012

Then fuckin party at O'Hanolan's

# ? May 14, 2020 15:34

CannonFodder: Jan 26, 2001; Passion’s Wrench

Eifert Posting posted:

I hate the cold with a fire that few others manage but I would go to a home game for the Rough Riders. With those fans it just seems like an experience.

The early part of the season is in the summer, highs in the 70s and 80s, lows in the 50s. That sounds amazing for football.

# ? May 14, 2020 16:16

Tank44: Jun 13, 2005; We want the ball & We're going to score

Eifert Posting posted:

I hate the cold with a fire that few others manage but I would go to a home game for the Rough Riders. With those fans it just seems like an experience.

"Rough Riders" was the former CFL team in Ottawa from 1876 to 1996. The "Roughriders" are the CFL team in Saskatchewan from 1924 to present.

The Saskatchewan Roughriders are also the CFL equivalent of the Green Bay Packers - small rural community owned team that has a wide ranging fan base since their fans had someone that used to live the area and then moved away and annoy every other football stadium. They even wear food on their heads! Packers with their cheese heads, Roughriders with watermelons or Pilsner boxes as hats.

# ? May 14, 2020 16:37

El Gallinero Gros: Mar 17, 2010

Tank44 posted:

CFL teams in the United states included:
Baltimore Stallions
Sacramento gold miners
San antonio Texans
Las vegas posse
Memphis mad dogs
Shreveport pirates
Birmingham barracudas

Joe Horn played for one of these teams

# ? May 16, 2020 16:50

Cavauro: Jan 9, 2008

they had teams called the rough riders and roughriders at the same time? maybe it's time to bring it back

# ? May 16, 2020 17:15

pseudodragon: Jun 16, 2007

Cavauro posted:

they had teams called the rough riders and roughriders at the same time? maybe it's time to bring it back

The CFL was a merger between regional leagues in the east and west where the teams were older than the league and no one was going to change their name. Kinda like how there are approximately a million Tiger and WIldcat teams in the NCAA.

When Ottawa folded and a replacement expansion team tried to bring back the Rough Rider name, then Saskatchewan got to say "No, go away" so then they had the Renegades that didn't work out, and now the REDBLACKS (with the caps being the official spelling).

# ? May 16, 2020 17:47

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# ? May 2, 2024 22:34

Cavauro: Jan 9, 2008

maybe it's time to bring it back

# ? May 16, 2020 20:05

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > Could the Canadian Football League fold?

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