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They could have added more stuff with Wanada Seldon. 
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Jul 25, 2020 04:24
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MonsieurChoc posted:They could have added more stuff with Wanada Seldon. personally i want as much Trantor content as possible. world-cities are just a really cool setting.
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Jul 25, 2020 11:42
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Forward the Foundation is very good and would have made a great miniseries. How to fit it the terrible Prelude to Foundation would have been a problem though.
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Jul 25, 2020 15:55
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Cobalt-60 posted:Same here. Asimov's characters just aren't interesting enough for full-length novels. And when he tries to include/force/synthesize characterization, it feels clunky. I liked the Lije Bailey novels the first time, but on re-reading them...take out or condense every bluff, mistake, blunder, and outright complete misjudgement by Bailey and you have a novella. With superfluous drama. I liked Arcadia/Arkady Darrell from the third foundation book, she was a fairly well drawn teenage girl.
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Jul 27, 2020 03:48
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i hope they give the second foundation cool light swords
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Jul 27, 2020 03:51
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Looking at the cast list for the AppleTV production, Lee Pace plays the Emperor during Hari Seldon's time, but why is the Emperor called 'Brother Day' rather than 'Cleon I'? That does not bode well.
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May 11, 2021 08:37
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Poor Lee Pace.
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May 11, 2021 08:46
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Ponzi posted:Looking at the cast list for the AppleTV production, Lee Pace plays the Emperor during Hari Seldon's time, but why is the Emperor called 'Brother Day' rather than 'Cleon I'? That does not bode well. Salvor Hardin walks around with a fuckin gun. This thing was doomed from the start.
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May 11, 2021 16:55
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CainFortea posted:Salvor Hardin walks around with a fuckin gun. This thing was doomed from the start. He has to personally demonstrate that an atom blaster is a good weapon, but it points both ways.
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May 12, 2021 02:58
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48 Hour Boner posted:He has to personally demonstrate that an atom blaster is a good weapon, but it points both ways. Hardin overthrew a space kingdom with a loving lightbulb. Don't need no blaster.
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May 12, 2021 03:02
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Anyone watching the Foundation series? I've seen the first 4 episodes and......its ok I guess? I like the clone emperor, kind of an interesting way to show the decay and stagnation of the empire. Making Anacreon backward because they were the target of an imperial assault is kind of interesting too. I just hope they would pick up the pace a bit. They have added a lot of padding and none of it is interesting at all.
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Oct 12, 2021 03:29
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Rutibex posted:Anyone watching the Foundation series? I've seen the first 4 episodes and......its ok I guess? I like the clone emperor, kind of an interesting way to show the decay and stagnation of the empire. Making Anacreon backward because they were the target of an imperial assault is kind of interesting too. I just hope they would pick up the pace a bit. They have added a lot of padding and none of it is interesting at all. I saw the first episode for free, and it was decent but not so much to compel me to add another subscription service to my monthly bill. I think I'll wait until all the episodes are out and use the one week free trial to binge 'em all, since there's nothing else on Apple TV that I'm at all interested in.
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Oct 12, 2021 03:58
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Rutibex posted:Anyone watching the Foundation series? I've seen the first 4 episodes and......its ok I guess? I like the clone emperor, kind of an interesting way to show the decay and stagnation of the empire. Making Anacreon backward because they were the target of an imperial assault is kind of interesting too. I just hope they would pick up the pace a bit. They have added a lot of padding and none of it is interesting at all. i think it's p deece, they get a lot of stuff right and i think the additions have potential. definitely worth a look if they stick the landing.
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Oct 12, 2021 05:19
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sebmojo posted:i think it's p deece, they get a lot of stuff right and i think the additions have potential. definitely worth a look if they stick the landing. Yeah I am liking it, I just feels odd they are trying to do character development on these early characters. Until the Mule saga none of the characters in Foundation really have any personality or arc.
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Oct 12, 2021 14:42
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Calling it now. The Mule will be another emperor clone.
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Oct 12, 2021 14:57
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Rutibex posted:Yeah I am liking it, I just feels odd they are trying to do character development on these early characters. Until the Mule saga none of the characters in Foundation really have any personality or arc. Salvor Hardin technically has an arc in the book as he goes from fiery young revolutionary to the authority figure that other fiery young revolutionaries are rebelling against. But it's true that character writing wasn't exactly Asimov's greatest strength as a writer.
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Oct 12, 2021 15:06
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jng2058 posted:Salvor Hardin technically has an arc in the book as he goes from fiery young revolutionary to the authority figure that other fiery young revolutionaries are rebelling against. But it's true that character writing wasn't exactly Asimov's greatest strength as a writer. I don't think Hardin was really a fiery young revolutionary. He did the coup entirely bloodlessly. A fiery revolutionary would have put the encyclopedists against the wall. I think the two Hardin stories are just more about the same situation but on two sides of the same coin. Because Hardin himself didn't really change. He even calls out that his time as Mayor was spent doing as little as possible. And that's how the 2nd crisis is handled as well.
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Oct 12, 2021 16:15
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Was the thing about Isaac Asimov sexually harassing the editor-in-chief of Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine so relentlessly hard that she quit her job to get away from him back in 1985 mentioned yet? Here's the level of harassment that Asimov was dealing out: https://fanac.org/fanzines/Boskone/Boskone22pb-30.html Even diehard SF&F fandom went "WTF Asimov?" whenever that Boskone 22 article got mentioned or shared. (source: SF-LOVERS Digest Volume 10)
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Oct 13, 2021 02:46
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jeeeeeeeeeeeesus that's immature of a grown-rear end man to do, much less a "storied figure" like Asimov.
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Oct 13, 2021 03:09
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Yeah Asimov was well known in the convention circuit as a serial groper and sexpest, and as the years went by the whisper network grew widespread enough to try to keep him the hell away from women at cons - though by the nature of whisper networks they couldn't always be successful.
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Oct 13, 2021 03:35
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The Gaal scenes from the fifth episode of the TV show appeared to take inspiration from the moments in the fifth book where various star and planet locations had been censored. That was a good part of an otherwise mostly terrible book
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Oct 15, 2021 19:41
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galenanorth posted:The Gaal scenes from the fifth episode of the TV show appeared to take inspiration from the moments in the fifth book where various star and planet locations had been censored. That was a good part of an otherwise mostly terrible book the next episode they are going Helicon. if i don't see some Twisting i am going to be very upset
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Oct 15, 2021 21:23
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MonsieurChoc posted:Forward the Foundation is very good and would have made a great miniseries. Prelude to Foundation is a great, pulpy, sci-fi adventure IMO. Would make a great miniseries. Segments easily, lots of locations, memorable characters, etc. Forward the Foundation would too, but I primarily find Forward interesting as it was what Asimov was grappling with while he knew he was dying of AIDS. CainFortea posted:Salvor Hardin walks around with a fuckin gun. This thing was doomed from the start. To be fair, you're seeing Salvor Hardin at a younger age than you ever did in the books. They dropped the "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" line a few episodes back, I think you're going to see how she comes to end up being that way.
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Oct 15, 2021 21:54
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quantumfoam posted:Was the thing about Isaac Asimov sexually harassing the editor-in-chief of Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine so relentlessly hard that she quit her job to get away from him back in 1985 mentioned yet? FYI, to keep reading this you have to substitute 31, 32, etc for 30 in the URL. And jeez, what a fuckin creep Asimov was. So was his son, btw. mr. unhsib fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Oct 15, 2021 |
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Oct 15, 2021 21:57
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I read Foundation and Chaos, officially licensed fan-fiction taking place at the same time as The Psychohistorians from the first Foundation book. It acts as a sequel to Forward the Foundation and doesn't reference anything from Foundation's Edge or Foundation and Earth. I'd rank it #4 behind the original trilogy but ahead of Asimov's prequels and sequels to it. It features a renewal of the war between robots who follow the Zeroth Law and those who don't. All of the original characters, such as Klia Asgar and Lodovik Trema, are very well-written. The death scenes in the novel are some of the best I've seen in science-fiction. The novel's biggest downsides are that it features Hari Seldon too heavily, doing mundane things like meeting with his lawyer, perhaps because the author was afraid that if he only included the scenes with original information in the last part of the book, it'd be odd to suddenly introduce a new character. It switches between characters' points of view every single chapter before characters cross paths, when they could have done this at least five chapters at a time. Unfortunately, it also acts as a sequel to Foundation's Triumph, another officially licensed fan-fiction book by another author taking place between the first and second prequel. I decided to skip that one after reading its synopsis, which looks like a generic space adventure with Hari Seldon and Dors grafted onto it. Anyway, virus-like simulations of Joan of Arc and Voltaire occasionally show up and comment, but the events of the book would've proceeded the same without them. Foundation's Triumph also apparently introduced tik-toks, an apparent retcon that the Empire actually did have rudimentary servant machines that could talk and they just didn't call them robots. The worst retcons in the prequel series are that the Empire is in a state of decline because of a "brain fever" virus introduced by the Spacers against the Earth people, numbing creativity and suppressing bright individuals toward the mean, as stated in this novel. Other fan-fiction novels apparently state that Daneel did this because...chaos itself acts like a virus and has outbreaks that threaten his long-term plan with unpredictability? It makes no sense. This novel itself posits that mentalics are developing their psychic powers because the human race can choose their path of evolution in some Lamarckian fashion and it yearns to be free of robot control, which also makes no sense. All of Asimov's retcons worked, but like Chibnal's retcons in Doctor Who, it felt like it was done in order to be self-serving and "leave a mark" on the franchise, by making grand statements about both the in-universe distant past and distant future. All it does is suffocate the possibility of further works based on their works, because the fan-fiction authors almost immediately started tripping over one another. It isn't that hard. Just write about events as they happen. There are a few mystery books taking place soon after the Elijah Bailey trilogy which seem to do that, though I haven't read them. After Daneel wins the war, which both sides conducted indirectly through manipulating other characters rather than fighting directly, he decides to accept this as reality, and therefore the remaining Calvinians join up with him. The location of the Second Foundation is kept secret from Daneel, because the Calvinians and the Second Foundation don't trust him. The novel ends with him changing his mind, which makes it seem like the truce and all the scenes of magnanimity between Lodovik Trema and Daneel existed only to satisfy the "West Wing" brain -- finding smug self-satisfaction in finding common ground for its own sake. Most of the novel, the war itself, was written very well, but the author fell flat at that standard conclusion where the curtain is pulled back and some new truth is revealed. galenanorth fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Oct 26, 2021 |
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Oct 26, 2021 20:51
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I had no idea there was 3rd party Foundation content. But according to wikipedia none of them finish the story  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_series#Other_authors_contributing_to_the_expanded_series quote:Asimov's novels covered only 500 of the expected 1,000 years it would take for the Foundation to become a galactic empire. The novels written after Asimov did not continue the timeline but rather sought to fill in gaps in the earlier stories. I guess I'm just going to have to keep assuming the end of "The Last Question" is the ending of Foundation
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Oct 26, 2021 21:13
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If we're talking unofficial sequels, I'd recommend Kingsbury's Psychohistorical Crisis which is a sequel to the original trilogy in all but name. It takes things in an interesting direction...a more interesting one than Edge or Earth if you ask me. https://www.amazon.com/Psychohistorical-Crisis-Donald-Kingsbury/dp/0312861028
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Oct 26, 2021 21:13
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jng2058 posted:If we're talking unofficial sequels, I'd recommend Kingsbury's Psychohistorical Crisis which is a sequel to the original trilogy in all but name. It takes things in an interesting direction...a more interesting one than Edge or Earth if you ask me. Ok now this is the content I am looking for
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Oct 26, 2021 21:16
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Rutibex posted:Ok now this is the content I am looking for Yeah, as far as ideas for an AU Foundation book go, what happens when both sides in a conflict have access to psychohistory was a pretty intriguing topic to consider.
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Oct 31, 2021 07:33
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MadDogMike posted:Yeah, as far as ideas for an AU Foundation book go, what happens when both sides in a conflict have access to psychohistory was a pretty intriguing topic to consider. I can't help but think it's like this all day: 
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Oct 31, 2021 20:08
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Well in Asimov’s books the reason knowledge of psychohistory is suppressed is because it literally doesn’t work if enough people know about it. So I don’t think you can really have a double psychohistory war.
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Nov 2, 2021 07:00
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I'm only up to episode five, but I love all the changes they've made so far except for possibly undermining salvor's iconic phrase. That and using sci fi bullshit to roll back hari's death But I don't miss dors, the sexbot. I don't miss terminus just being a boring empty planet. I don't actually miss Asimov's writing.
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Nov 2, 2021 15:11
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ikanreed posted:I'm only up to episode five, but I love all the changes they've made so far except for possibly undermining salvor's iconic phrase. i donno about that. shes has been using that atom blaster consistently and it has constantly failed to accomplish anything. i think she will learn violence really is the last refuge of the incompetent by the end of the season.
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Nov 2, 2021 16:22
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I mentioned this in the TVIV thread but people keep talking about 3 Laws and how the robot in Foundation is clearly violating them constantly, but they have not been mentioned in the show, so maybe they're not in this adaption? I know they're a foundation (ha!) of Asimov's stories but it cannot be taken for granted that they're being followed.
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Nov 2, 2021 20:19
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galagazombie posted:Well in Asimov’s books the reason knowledge of psychohistory is suppressed is because it literally doesn’t work if enough people know about it. So I don’t think you can really have a double psychohistory war. Ohh, I forgot about that. It's been several years since I re-read Foundation.
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Nov 2, 2021 21:16
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twistedmentat posted:I mentioned this in the TVIV thread but people keep talking about 3 Laws and how the robot in Foundation is clearly violating them constantly, but they have not been mentioned in the show, so maybe they're not in this adaption? I know they're a foundation (ha!) of Asimov's stories but it cannot be taken for granted that they're being followed. that robot lady is super old and advanced. she can do anything via zeroth law hacks
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Nov 2, 2021 22:07
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My one sentence review of the Foundation series so far: The Trantor storyline is crazy good and the Terminus storyline is hot garbage.
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Nov 2, 2021 22:13
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Rutibex posted:that robot lady is super old and advanced. she can do anything via zeroth law hacks Yea, that's what i figured they'd doing with them because of who they most likely really are. As there are no other Known robots in the show we don't have anyone to compare them to. Powered Descent posted:My one sentence review of the Foundation series so far: The Trantor storyline is crazy good and the Terminus storyline is hot garbage. My only issue with the palace stuff is good but i get the feeling that the palace is occupied by like maybe a dozen people. There's no court, there's few servants and guards. The lack of Imperial Weirdos doesn't make me think this is about space emperors. Every good space Emperor has a whole court full of weirdos, like Dune or Warhammer 40k.
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Nov 2, 2021 23:53
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twistedmentat posted:Yea, that's what i figured they'd doing with them because of who they most likely really are. As there are no other Known robots in the show we don't have anyone to compare them to. Who needs anyone else when you've got yourself, yourself, and yourself
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Nov 3, 2021 06:18
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ikanreed posted:Who needs anyone else when you've got yourself, yourself, and yourself Your right, but I think the various Cleons should start dressing weirder, they tend to just lounge around in their blue pjs.
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Nov 4, 2021 16:48
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