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rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Hell yes love this game even if it's got its fair share of issues. Bianca's probably my favorite of all the "rivals" even if she's not especially tough. A lot tougher than Cheren though

Also please listen to the Accumula track with the Piano & Drums. It's probably my favorite town theme in the series.

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rannum
Nov 3, 2012

I feel like peoplare over-selling this "poor sales" thing, even in the context of "its pokemon!!!"

It sold 15 million in its life time, only 2 million less than DP & 1 million less than Ruby & Sapphire. That is the least selling of the 8 generations main titles exceeeept....

XY was stuck at 12 million, the actual lowest discounting remakes & third versions*, until the summer of Go caused a +4 million sales surge to both it & ORAS and that momentum carried over to SM (which probably would've surpassed DP's LTS if USUM & the Switch hadn't kneecapped it).
If it weren't for Go I suspect XY wouldn't have broken past 15 million and I'd doubt SM have beat 12 million.


*Just for reference, here's the full sales list (in millions). BW2 & Platinum might actually be a little higher since we only know about the top 10 games and BW2 was last reported on in 2013. So all we know for sure is they sold less Super Mario 64 DS's 11.06 million (#10 best selling DS title as of 2020, based on the last numbers we have that places them at #12 & #13 respectively)
Red/Green/Blue 31.38
Gold/Silver 23.1
Diamond/Pearl 17.67
Sword/Shield 17.37
XY 16.45
Ruby/Sapphire 16.22
Sun/Moon 16.18
Black/White 15.64
Yellow 14.64
Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire 14.27
Heart Gold/Soul Silver 12.72
Fire Red/Leaf Green 12
Let’s Go Pikachu/Eevee 11.97
Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon 8.77
Black/White 2 7.63
Emerald 7.06
Platinum 7.06
Crystal 6.39

Also yes this likely means that SWSH has already surpassed DP in life time sales and it is very possible, depending on how DLC pushes sales and when the next "real" game comes out, to finally break GS's sales records.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

hopeandjoy posted:

I feel like the elemental monkeys would be better if they weren’t all variations on the same design and they didn’t show up once a route.

...what I’m saying is that a grass-water-fire family of monkey Pokémon would be ok if they weren’t the exact ones we got.

Honestly even all being variaitons on the same design would be fine if they did not do the thing of ALL THREE OF THEM showing up EVERY SINGLE TIME. Sometimes multiple times on a route throughout the game. They're either all on the same team or you find one with a monkey and its just wandering the trainer minefield until you find the other 2.

Otherwise they'd just be those samey monkeys they force on you at the start of the game, that's weird. Like in BW2, where they cut back on it drastically.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Zaroff posted:

One of the things I liked most about DPP was that you could see the entire Sinnoh Pokedex through playing the game and battling almost everyone. With a new completely new Pokedex in Gen V it would have been great for them to have done this again to showcase everyone.

They get close here. I think the only ones you dont see are...Tornadus/Thundurus (depending on version), Landorus and, for some reason, Vullaby. & Kyurem, I suppose, since that's psot game.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

AradoBalanga posted:

I do wish that they'd try that approach again as well, if only because there are a non-zero amount of the player base that doesn't want to waste time evolving/trading 'mons for what amounts to unlocking an expansion pack. At least BW takes the sensible route and unlocks the National Dex after beating the main story, instead of say, needing to catch and see everything before unlocking.


Huh? Unlocking the National Dex never worked like that...
RS: trade with any of Colosseum, XD, Emerald, or FRLG
FRLG: That longwinded post-game sidequest that also kept you from trading with RS and evolving your kanto pokemon
DPPt: See everything in the Sinnoh dex.


Emerald, HGSS, BW1 &2, XY, ORAS just have them unlock after beating the game.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Allosauroidea posted:

The national dex is unlocked by defeating the Elite 4 and having 60 pokemon recorded in your dex. Said longwinded sidequest requires you to have the national dex as a prerequisite to starting it because it takes you into areas with Johto mons.

Ahhh that's right, thanks. might've been confusing the gen 1 portion you do during the main story with the parts you traverse for the sidequest

AradoBalanga posted:

I might have gotten things crossed and was thinking of FRLG's unlocking method earlier. God, that method was dumb as hell.
You also might've been thinking of Emerald giving the Johto starter and BW2-on giving you Round(or Shiny) charms

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

As much as I like this game the decision to railroad you into the type triangle is just absurd. 2 routes of nothing except Patrat, Lillipup & Purrloin because can't let you have any variety so the gym leader has to trounce you so you can use the free monkey. It opens up almost immediately after this but yeesh, this is complete overkill. Thankfully they never do this again


Blaze Dragon posted:

I'm surprised how little importance you're giving mechanic changes since by now we've gone through two really big ones that greatly improved the games, yet both got completely ignored.

TMs being infinite use is so so good, we put up with single use TMs for far too long.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

werbear posted:

Wow, the English names for the gym leaders are so much better than the JP ones. I know this region is based on the US - but water corn and fire corn, really? Or is there a great pun hidden in those names?

It's probably something that sounds less dumb to Japanese speakers? You know like how Sandshrew is just "Sand" in japan.

All 3 of them being named after different kinds of Corn is probably just because they're triplets and they wanted the same motif for all 3

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

I love woobat & its evolution so so much and wish so badly it was more generally useful. In my first run I kept it through about Skyla, but by that point I just had to gently put it in the box and only used it for Fly purposes.
If only Simple was a normal ability instead of a Hidden Ability. DOuble boosted Calm Minds & Amnesia would be fun to play with in-game

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Unfezant is the Flareon of birds

It's one of the only birds in the series that didn't get Brave Bird until gen 8. And not even naturally or egg move, as a TR. The poor thing doesn't even get Wing Attack, having to rely on when you get the Aerial Ace TM.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Maybe I just lucked out in most of my squad (or, perhaps, I'm just played pokemon too much), but even with the horrid evolution levels and some Pokemon's long stretches of mediocre results since everyoen's on about the same playing field it kind of evens out. Outside of situations like Woobat or Pidove, who is sadly just never good, most pokemon felt like they got something that kept them relevant.

Roggenrola, for example. Sturdy keeps it around surprisingly long and I kept Rock Blast till endgame. Venipede & Sewaddle kinda suck early game but even at their coccoon stage they start coming out of their shell (s..so to speak). The second & third gym's areas in particular, all of them pull their weight in their own way.

I'd say things get more dicey when we start getting to the last leg of pokemon in the region where some real questionable decisions start being made.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Ohhhh m ygod Lenora.
When she's got her Apron slung over her shoulder, Lenora's design is probably one of my favorites in the series and she is a cool character but that design with the apron on is just so....

quote:

[Character Designer Yusuke ] Ohmura: “If I was going to sum up Lenora with just a few words, I’d say she’s a mother with a lot of spirit. There was talk during Black & White’s development about wanting to focus on the inclusion of a multinational and multiracial vibe. So with that in mind, we came up with this black woman, and we’d received orders that she should have a strong sort of body type and some motherly qualities. So we added the apron when thinking about this motherly concept, but actually, the apron made Lenora give off the impression that she was just an average mom. So because she works as the head of the Nacrene Museum, discovering fossils and stuff like that, we tried incorporating elements of a kind of ‘work apron’ that could be useful in dealing with such a wild kind of job. We hadn’t had a Gym Leader that wears an apron before, so we figured that was another good reason to have Lenora wearing one.”
Gamefreak I know you only had one (1) Englishman on staff but you're an international series you realyl should have been talking with literally anyone.



Lenora's appearances in the anime actually had to be completely redrawn to remove the apron (some images here https://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/comparisons/isshu/bw015_apron01.html )and iirc all her appearances in stuff like Adventures has her with the arpon on for like a few panels tops before casting it aside. It's really confusing to me that they did not also edit the sprite here or in BW2.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Just gonna say we should probably not be relying on online translators to make this be slightly less dumb &/or bad

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

I used a Petilil in my run of White. She's shockingly great to use provided you get Petal Dance and then evolve asap. Limited move pools can go a long way when you can rip others a new one.

It's kind of funny how Pokemon decided to get all "look at what we can do in THREEEE DIMENSSSSIONNNSSS" here, because they don't do it at all in the actually-3d games. Probably a blessing.




Also god dang Castelia is the best huge city I think. There's a ton of things to see & do and it's all laid out in a pretty obvious way unlike certain...other...huge cities that would follow.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

I never knew the questionaires were so convoluted and also gave prizes.

You'd think they would do this again for the 3DS games, where streetpass is available at a system level and would make this far more feasible for the rest of the world to do but no...i mean no one actually cared abotu them but, still.




Also the relocator isn't obscure at all. Of the 4 released, they made sure to tell everyone up front how to access it so they can send the Pokemon over with it and activate the events. It was a "selling point" of the events to begin with, beyond just getting the pokemon themselves, so they had to make sure you knew.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Gen 5 has 1 new Pokemon for each stone except for Sun (which has 2) and Dawn (which has nothing) so when you get a stone in BW1, there's only ever one choice unless you save it for post-game.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Radio Free Kobold posted:

Is this the first Really Big City we've seen in Pokemon? I mean, each region before had some kind of big city with skyscrapers and the like, but I think this is the first one that really captures the feeling.

Yeah, iirc it was kind of a big selling point. It was one of the first things shown off about the game, how big it was and how it has streets where there's dozens of NPCs constantly walking up & down and moving in/out of the way.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Allosauroidea posted:

Did they ever do that to the same extent again? The people walking through the streeet and all that? I know there were a few in Lumiose in gen 6 but I don't think since then?

Sun & Moon's larger towns do indeed have NPCs walking through the street in the same way. You can even interact with them and they'll do the Alola wave before continuing on.

Obviously not in the large numbers seen here, but a noticable amount.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Lumiose was honestly too big for its own good. I spent so long there and it was very easy to get lost. It's probably for the best they scaled back on (the now huge) Mauville in ORAS

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

My favorite thing about Burgh is he was
1. designed to be cool & stylish
2. the designer had no clue what it meant to be cool looking

quote:

Ohmura: “We were told to come up with a cool artist who’s a stylish guy, but designing him proved difficult for me. I didn’t really know what being a stylish guy really meant (laughs). We’d already done a straightforward attractive-looking guy with the design for N, and there were specifications about maybe giving Burgh long hair. But if we did that, we would have ended up with two characters with the exact same features. So even though Burgh is definitely cool, I wanted him to have a kind of lovable charm to him too, so I decided on tousled hair with a shape that maybe wasn’t set so perfectly. And then I took some female staffers aside and asked them, “Who’s your idea of a cool guy?” (laughs). Burgh’s design was the result of the opinions they shared, with his eyes slightly drooping and stuff like that. Although he’s got these drooping eyes, we also chose some features like the bridge of his nose being straight. I figured, “Jeez, if all these female staffers like these kinds of features, I’d better implement them into Burgh’s design (laughs).”

Sugimori: “An objectively cool guy, huh? (laughs)”

Ohmura: “But really, we asked so many people and the same names just kept coming up. There really does seem to be a standard for what a lot of people happen to think is cool.”

incidentally sugimori also doesn't like making characters too cool :allears:

quote:

Sugimori: “We’d had male protagonists wear caps before, but we hadn’t had a female protagonist wear one yet. Next, we thought about what kind of clothes this girl should wear besides a hat, and we agreed on stuff like shorts. We observed girls making their way around town and we tried out a few different ideas — like maybe this, or more of that. And then we combined all these ideas and ultimately we landed on the design we have now. Hilbert was sort of the reverse of Hilda in comparison — so thinking about balance, we thought why not give the boy sort of a vibe of coolness this time around? Now, I don’t usually like characters that are too cool, so in the past I’ve wanted to avoid doing this as much as possible (laughs). In Pokemon Diamond & Pearl and Pokemon Ruby & Sapphire, we made the protagonists energetic and hot blooded with short hair, but this time we were aiming for something cooler. We finished up their designs with stuff like stylish haircuts.”

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Mr. Locke posted:

A lot of the legendary Pokemon are make out of that grade of Bullshittium. Jirachi is a cute little star genie who wakes up once every millennium or something like that to grant wishes that can easily monkey's paw themselves to global-level destruction. Hoopa treats Space like a suggestion instead of a prime factor of existence and can cross all of creation with it's rings- and is implied to even be able to access OTHER realities. Marsshadow can hide in the shadows of beings and learn how not just how to copy their abilities, but always do it better then they can.

Pokedex entries are entirely horseshit written by a bunch of playground children bullshitting about how their favorite Pokemon is the coolest or the Pokemon universe is RAMPANT with pants-shittingly powerful cosmic-level entities that amuse themselves by seeing what we do with them when we think we've got them at our command in a stupid dumb sphere.

getting told to put on silly mustaches and twirl in a musical with a deer and chinchilla before going to bat away yarn balls and getting fed beans to own the foolish mortals

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

A lot of work for a pretty poo poo reward is probably why it never happened, I imagine.

Also kind of interesting how different the lock capsule's design is between the left over bag item sprite and the "mystery gift" image. Feels like this event went through several revisions

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Since we passed the Desert Resort, it's probably worth talking about ....


The anime!

Gen 5's anime, Black & White in the west and "Best Wishes" in Japan, issssss...mmmmmmm. Ffffine. It's fine. But it's definitely a lot weaker than the Diamond & Pearl anime. BW went for a soft-reboot of sorts, mroe than usual. Brock is gone, the anime itself (until...later....) made no real references to any previous season and Ash himself is significantly less competent and more childish more akin to his season 1 self. And hey, his two traveling companions are gym leaders again, funny that. It also felt like tehre was a lot more obvious stock footage going on.

Without digging too deep into it, the best way to describe Best Wish's real problems that aren't just people mad about Ash not being like his DP self is:
1. "A good idea BUT". Everyone has rivals! Almost none of them matter. Big season-ending tournaments! That happen too frequently, are full of one on one battles, feature a bunch of half-episode characters of the day and all the important characters leave after one (1) match. Ash has a big rotating team! 1 is always pikachu, 3 is always the starters so you barely see anyone. Team Rocket is Serious Business now! Oops they barely show up and aren't funny. And so on and so forth, you get the idea. I could talk for ages about the specifics of all of these, really. And maybe I will?!
2. Wildly unfocused. Broadly speaking best Wishes didnt have a plot for most of it; which is funny considering you know...the most plot heavy game in the series. Meanwhile Iris & Cilan had goals set up but never followed up on in any real capacity. The most that happens is Team Rocket periodically has a 2-3 part story as Ash gets his badges.Then there's the fascinating mess of Season 2 which is a haphazard BW2 showcase, a Meloetta story arc (??), the Team Plasma story arc (wait--), and then Literally Nothing But Filler On Random Islands.

It's almost like a bunch of plans didnt follow through and they might have gotten sidewinded by the existence of BW2 being sequels.


And I think that's absolutely the case because the real reason I'm talking about the anime is to talk about this


The Team Rocket vs Team Plasma 2 parter.

The first 22 episodes of Best Wishes really fly by. Ash already has 2 badges, 6 pokemon, he's in Castelia and already met Burgh, etc. More to the point just about every episode or every other episode has Team Rocket doing something. Gathering intel, making plans, making off with significant items, and everything is leading to the Desert Resort.
This 2 parter was really heavily advertised too, lots of page spreads and explainers, a significant preview showing off a bunch of clips, big flashy attacks by the Plasma grunts, Sandile is there, TR's gonna get another pokemon out of this, obviousl ythe first unveil of Team Plasma in general, the works


These episodes never aired because that same morning the horrible Tohoku Earthquake (& Tsunamis) hit Japan.



Judging by the sequences shown in the previews, chief among them a Liepard hyper beaming a city, it's presumed that they were probably a bit too intense considering...
Anyway for a long, long time they tried to reassure that the 2 parter would still air but it never did. Maybe they thought it was still too intense or more likely it got Porygon'd: the 2-parter was clearly linked to the events of the day, maybe they didnt want to draw direct attention to it. Of note is a third episode, a fishing in a purposely flooded town episode, also got delayed and reworked and reaired later on, but no one noticed or cared either at the delay or when it aired. Point is: never aired and I think this caused Best Wishes after about episode 50 (we know they have scripts up to about that point, they showed one off for the subway episode a few weeks prior) to just derail all their plans.
Team Plasma wouldn't show up at all until season 2.
Team Rocket just had completely random plots that tied into nothing. There was a large number of plots of gathering energy sources that was just ??
An assortment of important characters never showed up again including Looker and like 2 or 3 brand new TR agents that were relatively prevelant in the first 22 episodes.
And obviously after the first couple episodes that were already in production they never made mention of anything that happened within the 2 parter.

Meanwhile Season 2's "Episode N", which happened while BW2 was already out, conspicuously uses the BW1 plotline as its basis despite everyone using BW2 designs and Colress being there. We also know some significant footage and partial events got reused for that random Meloetta arc. Likely all these would have been more spread out and added upon in a timeline where there wasn't Japan's greatest ever earthquake disaster in its history hanging over its head.


Also yes portions of the fanbase were lovely in wondering why they still cared about the disaster and hey cant the english side of things just air them and so on and so forth. Not a great look!


-------
Incidentally, Japan never edited the end of episode 22 where Ash & company get on a helicopter to head to the Desert Resort, even in reruns or rentals. By the time the episode came to America, the dub wisely worked around this by moving around a few scenes and having Juniper go off herself; they still never call back to what she found there of course, but it's less awkward than "Ash gets on helicopter to investigate a thing, suddenly next episode hes battling Burgh with no mention of anything"

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Haifisch posted:

Best Wishes had a lot of problems but this

is something I didn't mind much because it forced them to do different things in the fillers than "Team Rocket shows up, steals the pokemon of the day, Ash beats them, Team Rocket is blasting off again"(which had long since gotten super stale even for a kid's show).

As a concept its fine but it struggled with execution. Like a lot of BW. The XY & SM anime are more even about it; they wont show up for episodes at a time but when they do they have a nice shine to them.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

hopeandjoy posted:

Team Rocket being boring was such a common complaint that, in the middle of gen 5, when Team Rocket was hosting an irl radio show, the voice actors complained in character that they weren’t getting any funny material.

I wonder if we can trace the timing of that complaint to the eventual scripting & airing of the best BW episode: the behyeeem episode where they mindcontrolled everyone but TR & Ash because they were canonically too stupid to mind control

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

The sports dome is pretty cool. Spent a looootttt of time there in the post game. iirc all their dialog updates too, which is cute


also

quote:

My name is Elesa. I'm this town's Gym Leader. I also happen to be a model.
This is probably my favorite line in the game. It's so...silly.... I think she even does a fancy pose for it.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Wally had 5 Pokemon and one of them was a Delcatty, let's not get on the "Wally's team was good/fine" train quite yet. & honestly I wasn't exatcly struggling against his Altaria or Magneton.



Also hey Elesa! Probably the most infamous gym battle Ash has done with maximum peak dumbass: he brought one Pokemon, his Palpitoad, and expected to sweep her entire team with it.

Her second Pokemon was Emolga which defeated it instantly.

So he had to run out of the battle, grab his Snivy, then come back to fight Emolga because Ash forgot that while Snivy resists electric moves Emolga is part flying type. He also forgot Snivy was a girl and that, since his Palpitoad was a boy and suffered from Attract, that Attract wouldn't work on Emolga. Just spectacular. And then he almost forfieted because he couldn't think of another Pokemon that wcould handle both electric AND flying attacks until Pikachu just said use me you idiot oh my god.

Just...incredible showing by future pokemon master, Ash Ketchum


The third pokemon was a fun change for the anime, by the way

A super fast tynamo that Elesa just adored, it's her "electric queen". It zooms around like a missile hitting you with Tackles.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Crosspeice posted:

I get what they were going for in that Ash was overthinking his strategy in how to win when he should just be himself and use what Pokemon he wants. But it was very poorly done and ranks as one of the worst Gym battles he's done.

I would argue that he was aggressively underthinking. Again he brought a single pokemon to a 3-on-3 gym match because he had a ground type against the electric leader.


By the way the Burgh fight iirc had a segment that was him not using his rock type his flying type or his fire type and isntead going "BUG VS BUG" and here's sewaddle. That sewaddle put in some work but ash please

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

BlazeEmblem posted:

Wait, where's stockpile.

Or is half of this moveset worthless :psyduck:?

The problem with the Chateu teams is they do have actual movesets...at the base level

here's Val's normal Mawile


Now, putting aside that Mawile as a pokemon isn't great and one with hyper cutter less so, that's a decent moveset!

But the Chataeu has a writ system that raises/lowers levels but the problem is they don't have preset movesets
And so


With a writ of challenge we add 5 levels but now it generates a Mawile that leveled up to 55. So it has the 4 latest moves available to it: Sucker Punch (46), and the Stockpile, Swallow & Spit Up trio (all at 50)

The Red Writ of challenge (the one blueberry showed) ups it to 60 which means the moveset now shifts up to the final 2 moves. Iron Head (56) and Play Rough (60) are in and Sucker Punch & Stockpile (first in the level 50 train) are out.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

MightyPretenders posted:

If I'm not mistaken, that Roserade belongs to the guy who is all about dancing - so Roserade would never need another move. But I'd assume his Sword Dancers and Dragon Dancers have regular attacks as well.

Talonflame has SD, Quick Attack and Acrobatics (no gale wings). Crawdaunt has SD, Crabhammer and Night Slash

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

I had never actually heard the full song for Driftveil Bridge before and there's a whole section of this I don't think literally anyone would hear otherwise. It's pretty nice, even.

not the only bridge like this...


And hey since we saw Charles (the heartbreaker), here he is in the anime




he's literally just kamen rider

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

FoolyCharged posted:

I forget where they pull those from, but it's an internet fan site. What do you expect if not needless complications?

Bulbapedia is all about reading entirely too much into things



but also going mayhaps possibly in some sense "Crab" (the japanese name of Krabby) comes from "Crab"? We may never truly know....

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

They really didn't know what to do with the Shadow Triad in this game, huh.

creepy cool ninja dudes who appear to shuffle you....5 spaces down the hallway, okay. they improve next game, at least

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Skyla in the anime loves flying even more than usual and doesnt like being taken away from it so she runs through what would happen in the battle and then gives a badge if she thinks she'll lose.

She determines she'd beat Cilan, he (& Ash, & Skyla's dad whos been over this poo poo for years now) gets mad and challenges her to a battle and then





beats him because turns out Skyla is in fact, really good :v:

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

Rotating teammates is always a fun idea. I've only done it once, in my run of Moon with 12 pokemon (my run of Sun was more standard). It was definitely interesting, got me to try all kinds of Pokemon, but it never feels quite right or as attached.

My other idea I'd like to do someday is to swap out your team after every gym, and only pick up pokemon available between the 2 gyms, then bring the best 6 to the elite 4. I think this would be most fun in XY; outside of the gym 1/gym 2 gap the gyms are fairly well paced and the game makes use of its huge regional dex (largest in the series!) by having just about every route have like...6 new pokemon. So lots of variety at your disposal, even if you kept it to like 3 a gym.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

The Golux posted:

I think they stopped doing gender differences mostly because they're great on basically-static sprites but the more movement the harder they are to accommodate.

also, *for Unova only,* the mons' evolution levels kinda make sense; most things evolve between 5 and 10 levels from when you catch them, and I believe you don't run into many mons that are at a level where they should be evolved but they aren't?

But that doesn't work well when you try to put them in different areas of another game in different orders... and it also makes breeding some things kind of a pain.
I'm going to say this is still not true. On one end of the spectrum, things like Scraggy evolves at level 39, you get it at level 16.

On the other end some like Tyanmo & Frillish which evolve at 39/40, are "only" 10-ish levels from where they can evolve, consider that we're done with the 6th gym and doing optional side areas and neither are set to evolve until about gym 8. That's a not inconsiderable amoutn of time carrying around something like Tynamo. And there's a lot of pokemon like this. Some can be fairly usable, like Frillish is, but...

In general, you are probably going to beat this game aroundddd Late 40s on some of your most-used pokemon, perhaps someone will breach the 50s. Which isn't that dissimilar to games before it but for some reason Gen 5 pokemon just keep evolving at really late levels. We're going to get pokemon in the last stretch who are very likely to not evolve until somewhere in the post game.

Just any time you see alate evolution I want you to think to gen 3. Steven ends off in the mid-late 50s, the final boss of gen 5 will end off in the early-mid 50s. And then just think about the general evolution levels seen in that game vs this one.

e: Actually I forgot I did this months ago so here's a comparison betweens gens 1, 3 & 5 since they have similar amounts of pokemon pokemon
Gen 1 | Gen 3 | Gen 5
Evolve in their....
Before 10: 2 | 1 | 0
Teens: 9 | 10 | 4
20s: 19 | 12 | 10
30s: 17 | 21 | 27
40s: 4 | 8 | 11
50s: 1 | 1 | 6
60s: 0 | 0 | 1

rannum fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Sep 21, 2020

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

I forgot that Dragonspiral was an actual dungeon to it. That's nice

Black Robe posted:

Someone please explain to me why Cedric Juniper exists. What does he do that his daughter, the actual Pokemon Professor of this region, couldn't do just as well? This is basically the game saying yes, you can have a female professor at last, but only so she can be overshadowed and replaced by a man once the plot starts ramping up.

For whatever reason, they always had 2 professors in this game. Why they wanted 2 professors, who knows.

I also wouldn't say she's really overshadowed? I'm pretty sure the primary Juniper still has relevance moving forward, he's just...around...for this section of this plot, for some reason. BW2 just shoves him in the post game and hell I forgot he showed up in the anime at all, he has like no presence.

Have some weird rear end designer notes!

quote:

Sugimori: “Up until halfway through development, both professors were actually men. We’d received orders with very unpleasant requirements — that one professor should be fat, and other one old (laughs). But there was a severe lack of anything feminine or pleasant about that situation. So I went and complained to Masuda — I told him, “Make the professor a woman!” (laughs). I’d actually been thinking about handing over the responsibility of designing the professor to Ohmura, but I was the one who’d proposed the changes, so I decided to design her myself. I thought she would be kind of a New Yorker type — in other words, a real career woman. Maybe she’s the kind of woman that would wear sneakers around the office, that kind of vibe. After Juniper was changed into a woman, we revised Cedric’s design as well — in order to make him look like he could actually be the other professor’s father.”

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

I meant to mention it the last update, but the demo for this game actually took place on that small area between iccurus city & dragonspiral tower. Every time you went into the demo, it would choose a different season to show off. iirc you had a Deerling (set as the first pokemon, so you'd always see it), a starter and i think...basculin?

Anyway to end the demo you went up to the tower entrance to meet with Juniper again and she'd give a little spiel about how she researches the origins of Pokemon as her speciality, they hear something going on at the tower and then the demo ends. I wonder if at one point she was supposed to be there at the tower in the final game, after that.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012

I like what they did with Alder. I think it still carries enough weight, I still got the feeling that he's still supposed to be a skilled trainer (& respected by the people nevertheless) he just has depression. iirc N's sweep of the e4 mentions that he mostly just did it with the Dragon, for what's that worth.




The fact any of those failings are actually relevant to the plot puts him above anyone other than Lance(He's raiding bases, he splits the work with you, he even teams up with you for a battle, by far the most proactive champion) for me. Champions otherwise just show up but don't really do anything despite being really strong. Even Cynthia just stands to the side and yammers. So him getting involved now, then having to put his money where his mouth is and failing for it is interesting to me.

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rannum
Nov 3, 2012

White Version's Opelucid City theme is absolutely wonderful, A+ pro click right there

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