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Eason the Fifth
Apr 9, 2020

Chairchucker posted:

I'm addicted to playing on Covenant one to unlock all the cards

Yeah Cov 1 is where I parked, too. Some of the upper covenant levels had some unfun bullshit I don't want to play through again, and it's still possible to screw myself if I get greedy with the shards.

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Twitch
Apr 15, 2003

by Fluffdaddy
I'm working my way up through the covenants (on 16 right now), but I spent the entire time from release to the DLC on covenant 0/1 until I found the combo I played the best with (melted/stygian). I just reform my dudes over and over with a few big spells to get past the tricky enemy setups, and if I get lucky the two synergize.

If I get really lucky I have a giant murder squad that dies and regenerates every single turn, and the spell that scales with player monster death. The upper covenants are bullshit sometimes, but nothing that I can't overcome if I get some bullshit in my favor.

ZepiaEltnamOberon
Oct 25, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022
Wow I finally got a Transcendant Imp run where I just used 2 boosted Empress's Imps, the Exiled Champion's summoned imps, and an Endless Transcendant Imp to murder everything without issue. With help from the Double Summon Artifact and Reforms (for the boosted Imps).

That was a strong run. Didn't bother with Armored or Rage Imps, just spammed damage dealing Imps.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007
ugh... just tanked a surefire win by learning that "call of the sirens" will ascend the boss during the final phase. I already had lethal on the boss... I was just playing all my cards to buff incants for bonus overkill and to move the 1 hp dude out of the way for even more bonus damage. I would've wiped the doubleboss too, the "consume" seraph made that a challenge for my deck and I had managed to keep that siren card around so long.

I think I would've uninstalled after that idiotic, greedy, misplay but I unlocked some blue boys so gotta give them a go at least.

Lozareth
Jun 11, 2006

Ascending the boss to the pyre doesn't end the round. You could've quit to the main menu then continued your run to start the fight over.

ZepiaEltnamOberon
Oct 25, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022
Planned to make a Spell Weakness deck, got an Apex Imp, and it turns out this Imp is like the strongest loving thing in the game cause it had like 5k attack by turn 2 on the Endless.

UED Special Ops
Oct 21, 2008
Grimey Drawer

ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:

Planned to make a Spell Weakness deck, got an Apex Imp, and it turns out this Imp is like the strongest loving thing in the game cause it had like 5k attack by turn 2 on the Endless.

Yeah, Apex Imp massively lives up to its name, even if at first glance it doesn't look to insane. Best I ever had was a pair of em (thanks to a copy a unit portal) with multi strike twice sitting behind a massively tanky Deraigned Brute alongside every single rage trinket plus a decent amount of armor support. Seraph exploded within two passes of the floor, and the Last Divinity keeled over within I think two or three turns. Wish there was a way to replace Hellhorned Champ with one, flat out, didn't even need my hero at the end.

UED Special Ops fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Jul 12, 2021

ZepiaEltnamOberon
Oct 25, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022
I mainly just intended for the Apex Imp to tank for my champ so I could lay down a fuckton of Spell Weakness on Floor 1 so I could nuke the boss on Floor 2.

So my Apex Imp had Incant: Gain 2 Armor and was also fused with the Incant: Gain 3 Armor Shark.

I also had this totem that had Incant: Give 5 Armor to Friendlies or something.

And also the Artifact that prevented Rage from decaying, as well as the Armor that made every instance of Armor give +4 Armor.

All that added up to create a beast and I never really go to be a spellcaster.

I'd heard people talk about how good it was but I assumed it was as a part of some OP combo. But no, turns out even the most basic of backup can turn it into a beast.

UED Special Ops
Oct 21, 2008
Grimey Drawer

ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:

I mainly just intended for the Apex Imp to tank for my champ so I could lay down a fuckton of Spell Weakness on Floor 1 so I could nuke the boss on Floor 2.

So my Apex Imp had Incant: Gain 2 Armor and was also fused with the Incant: Gain 3 Armor Shark.

I also had this totem that had Incant: Give 5 Armor to Friendlies or something.

And also the Artifact that prevented Rage from decaying, as well as the Armor that made every instance of Armor give +4 Armor.

All that added up to create a beast and I never really go to be a spellcaster.

I'd heard people talk about how good it was but I assumed it was as a part of some OP combo. But no, turns out even the most basic of backup can turn it into a beast.

Yeah, even with just modest armor gain Apex Imp just turns into a juggernaut, its crazy how its attack goes from like 20 to 2000 in the blink of an eye. There is def a reason it is a rare card, if you get one congrats, you just won the run.

Kris xK
Apr 23, 2010
Theres a Monster Train clone out now on Android in EA called "Protect the Realm"

Its dumbed down (no army matchups, no relics) but its early access and seems okay so far.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

Lozareth posted:

Ascending the boss to the pyre doesn't end the round. You could've quit to the main menu then continued your run to start the fight over.

Very good to know, wish I'd known sooner. I could've won other bosses but for weird misplays or bad RNG.

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
There was a survey for MT that the devs posted in the dev feed.

https://www.getfeedback.com/r/99U5U19m/

Fairly extensive, so it seems like they're probably going to do more DLC or a new game in the setting at some point.

IAmThatIs
Nov 17, 2014

Wasteland Style
They just announced MT is coming out for the Switch, August 19th!

SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013

I found the game on GamePass and now I'm super addicted. Definitely gonna buy it on Switch (if such a port doesn't run like garbage). Made it up to covenant 4 so far. I think it's something special that the very first covenant rank gives the final boss +140% HP. Quite the difficulty jump.

Anyone have some tips on how to play Hellhorned primary? It's probably the one clan I don't 'get' yet and I'm itching to get at least a covenant 1 win with them.

Kris xK
Apr 23, 2010
For Hellhorn I think I was either stacking muktistrike and slay/harvest modifiers or Imps.

Imps was more fun IIRC, but you do need the second HH Hero to make the most of it.

Eason the Fifth
Apr 9, 2020

SettingSun posted:

I found the game on GamePass and now I'm super addicted. Definitely gonna buy it on Switch (if such a port doesn't run like garbage). Made it up to covenant 4 so far. I think it's something special that the very first covenant rank gives the final boss +140% HP. Quite the difficulty jump.

Anyone have some tips on how to play Hellhorned primary? It's probably the one clan I don't 'get' yet and I'm itching to get at least a covenant 1 win with them.

Good stuff for the hellhorned (and every other clan) below

https://www.ign.com/wikis/monster-train/Best_Card_Combos

Ultima66
Sep 2, 2008

Hellhorned has some of the worst overall creatures in the game, as well as some of the weaker champions. The prince is honestly very likely the weakest or second weakest champion in the game, while Shardtail Queen can be strong but is also somewhat situational, and just the fact that she starts with a set of creatures rather than spells already fucks up quite a few synergies with other clan combos.

On the other hand, what Hellhorned DOES have is some really solid burn spells, rage generation, and armor. It also has Apex Imp, as well as the general imp package. Multistrike Apex Imp with a holdover March of Shields and one or two other big armor cards is a really easy win. Endless Transcendimp with another Imp essence on him is also an easy win, especially if you have 1 or 2 Welder Helpers. The burn spells can be expected to carry you through a lot of a run, and Ritual of Battle in its current state is one of the best ways to scale up a creature's attack stat.

ZepiaEltnamOberon
Oct 25, 2010

I Failed At Anime 2022
Wow I never knew how to make Slay Little Fade work until now but then I realized that having the Armor Imp fixes all her problems.

I didn't have the Sacrifice Imp spell so I had to make do with the Piercing Knife that ramps up in damage every time you kill something to kill an Imp so I could Reform it.

I almost hosed myself over by getting Sap on Summon on one of my Armor Imps, though, cause that would prevent stuff from hitting me. Was hella useful on bosses though.

Zurai
Feb 13, 2012


Wait -- I haven't even voted in this game yet!

SettingSun posted:

Anyone have some tips on how to play Hellhorned primary? It's probably the one clan I don't 'get' yet and I'm itching to get at least a covenant 1 win with them.

Obviously, there are several winning strategies, but the simplest is to get Endless on a rage imp (or be playing Hellhorned/Wax alternate and just reform it every turn) and combine it with multiattack units. This works better with the original Hellhorned champion because you can use Scorches to pick off the imp so you draw it again on your next turn and one of the upgrade paths for the champion gives multiattack.

From there, you can scale it up in various ways. Assuming you have the expansion, jamming a rage imp onto an armor imp or vice versa (it does actually matter since the armor imp functions a little differently as a merge than it does as a base unit) is generally a good idea. Getting the various rage booster artifacts will make your path easier, as will the "rage is more powerful" demon. The +1 multiattack for demons artifact should pretty close to guarantee a win combined with an endless rage imp. Defensively, the "+5 armor to all of your creatures at end of turn" demon is quite good, although if you're relying on Scorch to kill your rage imp, it can screw things up too. The "add a random imp to your hand at the start of the turn" artifact is very good since it can give you Transcendimps (dunno about Apex Imps, never seen one), ditto with the 0-cost consume spell that adds two random imps to your hand.

When I get a good start with an imp strategy (ie, starting with two rage imps or two armor imps and, ideally, an Imp-ortant Work) I'll generally go down the multiattack line with my champion and prioritise a defensive demon to stand in front of him. Either the 30 armor/1 melee weakness on strike one or the +5 armor every turn one works fine. I'll heavily prioritize troop shops and aim for multiattack on the wall unit and endless on one of the imps. Quick or incant 2 armor are also useful on the wall, and +5 stats and burnout 1 is useful on the imp (keeps you from having to dedicate a card to killing it every turn). If I get an Imp-ortant work, I'll try to get Holdover on it, although that's less important than making my wall/imp better. I'll usually take +1 space for boss clears and aim to duplicate my wall unit on the final stage so that I can fit the champion, two multiattack walls, and the imp on the top floor. That's not usually recommended for Hellhorned because they have good access to ascend cards, but that doesn't work if you want to jam an imp into the floor every turn.

I'm far from the best Monster Train player, but I'm working my way through beating Covenant 25 Divine wins on every combination of factions and champions, and this works pretty consistently for me.

Eason the Fifth
Apr 9, 2020
lol. Just did that hellhorned apex imp run ultima66 mentioned above but with 5 duped endless Welder Helpers with Ashes of the Fallen (2x summon effects) and reinforce (2x armor on a unit). Basically just built the deck around the apex imp and stacking armor with a few random units to hold the other floors. Used Torch to kill the helpers to cycle the armor buff for the apex. Over 4k on single hits and 8k multi-striked. :asoiaf:

Eason the Fifth fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Aug 11, 2021

SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013

I'm still chasing a Hellhorned win but I randomed into an alt Stygian/alt Awoken run that was a lot of fun.



This run was absolutely saved on the last floor when I picked up the artifact that allowed double incants. Solgarde, the Guard and the two incant stones on a single floor and every spell cast there was a torrent of incant triggers. I was missing a covenant win with the Sygian Guard at any rank so I can check that one off.

SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013

I got my Hellhorned win at rank 1 but it was close. Seraph finished off by the Pyre itself.

Also:


This was probably a waste and will cost me this run but I can't stop laughing.

Eason the Fifth
Apr 9, 2020
lol. That fireplace always struck me as the goofiest unit.

Primetime
Jul 3, 2009
I just wish they put more effort into the animations of the units who 'shouldn't' attack. If I'm gonna go out of my way to make my big fireplace do damage, don't just have it slide across the screen and bonk into stuff

ErIog
Jul 11, 2001

:nsacloud:
I haven't posted here, but I've played a lot of the game. I've beaten the game with all clan combos on various covenants, and am now going through Covenant 25 for each of those. For some combinations it just feels like I'm playing a slot machine because the pairing is so awful you need to get the exact right random events to unfuck the starting deck enough to even have a chance to win.

I'm currently stuck on Hellhorned with Umbra as the alt. I should probably just skip to the next one, but I'm stubborn and want to clear the one with the lowest covenant rank and then move to the next.

I understand why the game is balanced this way (balancing Covenant 25 around the weakest clan pairing would make it easier overall for the best clan pairing), but it's still somewhat annoying.

Primetime posted:

I just wish they put more effort into the animations of the units who 'shouldn't' attack. If I'm gonna go out of my way to make my big fireplace do damage, don't just have it slide across the screen and bonk into stuff

Counterpoint, it's really funny when it does that.

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

ErIog posted:

I haven't posted here, but I've played a lot of the game. I've beaten the game with all clan combos on various covenants, and am now going through Covenant 25 for each of those. For some combinations it just feels like I'm playing a slot machine because the pairing is so awful you need to get the exact right random events to unfuck the starting deck enough to even have a chance to win.

I'm currently stuck on Hellhorned with Umbra as the alt. I should probably just skip to the next one, but I'm stubborn and want to clear the one with the lowest covenant rank and then move to the next.

I understand why the game is balanced this way (balancing Covenant 25 around the weakest clan pairing would make it easier overall for the best clan pairing), but it's still somewhat annoying.

Counterpoint, it's really funny when it does that.

I feel like runs are usually winnable as opposed to usually not, but you've got to resist the urge to do things like pull every pact shard or amulet challenge to preserve health and so on.

ErIog
Jul 11, 2001

:nsacloud:
With the better clan combos that's true. With the ones that are bottom of the barrel it's tilted more toward being able to make it to Seraph a decent percentage of the time, but with a deck that just doesn't do enough damage.

A lot of runs also just run into boss variants that completely hard counter even a good deck that might have been able to beat Seraph.

The variance is real. This is very rare, but on a run I just had I managed to have such a poor starting deck and bad enough luck on draw that I lost the very first battle.

I've put hundreds of hours into the game. I've beaten covenant 25 with most clan combos. I know how to pilot a deck. It's so messed up. I didn't know it was possible.

Zurai
Feb 13, 2012


Wait -- I haven't even voted in this game yet!

ErIog posted:

I haven't posted here, but I've played a lot of the game. I've beaten the game with all clan combos on various covenants, and am now going through Covenant 25 for each of those. For some combinations it just feels like I'm playing a slot machine because the pairing is so awful you need to get the exact right random events to unfuck the starting deck enough to even have a chance to win.

I'm currently stuck on Hellhorned with Umbra as the alt. I should probably just skip to the next one, but I'm stubborn and want to clear the one with the lowest covenant rank and then move to the next.

Yeah, I got stuck for hours and hours on Awoken prime/Umbra. That particular combo has mega anti-synergy. No amount of morsels make the original Awoken champion into a better offensive unit, but he wants to be in front for 2/3 of his builds (spikes and revenge cultivate). Furthermore, revenge cultivate will buff the morsels before the other units on the floor. And, since the champion hogs the front spot, all the Umbra units that rely on Gorge mechanics don't function with him. You can try running split floors, but I've never had much success with that in the general case. I ended up winning by playing an essentially mono-Awoken deck, up to and including purging all the starting morsel cards.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I beat Hellhorned/Melting Remnant on my first try. Those two just have amazing synergy.

ErIog
Jul 11, 2001

:nsacloud:
Wow, next run after I posted I managed to find a way to beat it by getting a really perfect set of relics and events:



Deeplink run summary:
monstertrain://runresult/d7630f98-53c5-420a-ac8b-7cd978b7851c

Tokyo Sex Whale
Oct 9, 2012

"My butt smells like vanilla ice cream"

ErIog posted:

Wow, next run after I posted I managed to find a way to beat it by getting a really perfect set of relics and events:



Deeplink run summary:
monstertrain://runresult/d7630f98-53c5-420a-ac8b-7cd978b7851c

A win’s a win and I don’t want to be too critical if you managed to pull one out but just looking at this I think you can tell why you’d be having trouble with some combos. I haven’t replayed the run so I don’t know what options were available but some observations:

You leaned into multistrike on your champ. That’s fine but the only source of rage you have is a perils of production and randomly from impsicles. You could be boosting his attack with morsels but you only have one consume plink that could possibly be generating those, and one unmodified shroud mitosis. You may not have had any holdovers for sale, idk, but putting a holdover on the perils of production ASAP is almost always a good idea, and the best idea with a 3x multistrike prince.

If you could get a holdover on the perils all the upgrades that went on that prismatic dust would be better spent on the furnace tap.

Consumer of Crowns is usually a trap but this is a pretty good deck/artifact setup to get him out at least. Still as your only banner unit and no energy upgrades you’ve got almost no chance of getting him out on your first turn. On the whole it does look like a really strong card and artifact draw but one that should be scoring in the mid 40s at least, not squeaking out a win at 28.

I think some clan combos with less than ideal draw make the last divinity unbeatable and some Seraphs you have to plan for a bit but base game I think every run should be winnable.

ErIog
Jul 11, 2001

:nsacloud:

Tokyo Sex Whale posted:

A win’s a win and I don’t want to be too critical if you managed to pull one out but just looking at this I think you can tell why you’d be having trouble with some combos. I haven’t replayed the run so I don’t know what options were available but some observations:

You leaned into multistrike on your champ. That’s fine but the only source of rage you have is a perils of production and randomly from impsicles. You could be boosting his attack with morsels but you only have one consume plink that could possibly be generating those, and one unmodified shroud mitosis. You may not have had any holdovers for sale, idk, but putting a holdover on the perils of production ASAP is almost always a good idea, and the best idea with a 3x multistrike prince.

If you could get a holdover on the perils all the upgrades that went on that prismatic dust would be better spent on the furnace tap.

Consumer of Crowns is usually a trap but this is a pretty good deck/artifact setup to get him out at least. Still as your only banner unit and no energy upgrades you’ve got almost no chance of getting him out on your first turn. On the whole it does look like a really strong card and artifact draw but one that should be scoring in the mid 40s at least, not squeaking out a win at 28.

I think some clan combos with less than ideal draw make the last divinity unbeatable and some Seraphs you have to plan for a bit but base game I think every run should be winnable.

I'll go through these points later, but please pay attention to my artifacts. I had the enemy kill = morsels artifact generating morsels every single turn all going into my champion. Most turns I had to dump morsels on a floor to die I had so many.

SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013

Today's daily is pretty funny. Spoilered in case anyone wants to figure it out themselves.



Start with a ton of energy that doesn't decay and on the second floor draw Shadowsiege and then immediately get the refraction even that reduces its capacity to 1. Later it got copied and after I found the pyrestone housing one of them got multistrike, then I drew the Onehorned Tome. Seraph didn't stand a chance.

Ultima66
Sep 2, 2008

The bad clan combos are bad and often don't work coherently but the game is definitely not overwhelmingly difficult no matter what. Rising Dusk was on a few of Voyix's tier list videos and he's mentioned he had like a 500 win streak or something. Something like that would be pretty unheard of in Slay the Spire, though this night have been before the DLC.

Honestly the best way to play a lot of the bad clan combos is to just ignore one of the clans outside of picking up a few standalone good cards. Every clan has a path to victory with only their own cards, and with the exception of Incant you don't really need to play a lot of cards per turn to reach that (which is not to say incant decks don't work with Alt Hellhorn or Default Melting, it's just weaker).

I'll repeat the analysis I've heard about beating this game, which is that there are 3 questions you need to answer in this game: how to kill heavies, how to kill backline, and how to kill the bosses. Heavies tend to be the hardest thing to answer, and are usually only really answered by high damage multistrike units. Backline has a lot of spell answers as well as having enough multistrike, things like vapor funnel, or sweep carries. Bosses need a bulky frontline and at least a moderate amount of damage. A big thing to call out with the DLC is that you shouldn't be married to your champion any more for a lot of the weaker champions because they will never be strong enough to compete with the enemy stats. Because of this, things like Slay Prince and Gorge Umbra are basically completely worthless now, due to not having the baseline strength to do anything in the DLC and not having Multistrike.

ErIog
Jul 11, 2001

:nsacloud:
I'll preface this with an apology to everyone else for being the kind of annoying person that does this style of post, but this Tokyo Sex Whale person made me angry and this is my only recourse. A person being completely wrong, and also a smug rear end in a top hat about it just triggers something evil and depraved in me.

Tokyo Sex Whale posted:

You leaned into multistrike on your champ.

Yes, I did. I took rage + armor, and then plus multistrike every time after. Take a look at what Seraph I had. I leaned into multi-strike because I wanted damage scaling Seraph couldn't remove. I understand you can still do a rage build on that Seraph (and I've done it), but trying to force that to happen you need to be offered the things that give you rage and lucky enough to be able to make them overpowered. You can't just will that into existence, and most runs that try to do that steamroll all fights only to lose to Seraph.

Tokyo Sex Whale posted:

You could be boosting his attack with morsels but you only have one consume plink that could possibly be generating those, and one unmodified shroud mitosis.

Yes, all morsels went into my champion. I generated 2 morsels each turn, minimum, with the Shadelamp artifact. On most turns I was filling the floor with my champ to capacity with morsels thanks to plinks (most of which eventually got removed). On the final wave my champion was doing nearly 700 damage per turn, decent armor, some lifesteal, and lots of damage shields.

Tokyo Sex Whale posted:

You may not have had any holdovers for sale, idk, but putting a holdover on the perils of production ASAP is almost always a good idea, and the best idea with a 3x multistrike prince.

The only holdover I got offered I couldn't afford. I also only ever got offered one +10 magic power upgrade (I put it on Vent for AOE). I've done lots of builds where I've had Perils of Production on holdover. It's fine. Most of them couldn't scale fast enough because, compared to other sources of rage, 3 rage isn't really a lot. So you not only need to get holdover but you also need to get doublestack to make that worth it. You're better off just taking a better rage card and making it cheaper to play and holdover if you can. You're always guaranteed to be able to make your spells cheaper. You're never guaranteed holdover or doublestack.

Tokyo Sex Whale posted:

If you could get a holdover on the perils all the upgrades that went on that prismatic dust would be better spent on the furnace tap.

Furnace tap was added extremely late or I might have done something like that. Again, I only ever got offered 1 holdover I couldn't afford. I put the upgrades I did on Prismatic dust because it was my best card at the time, and the upgrades I got offered worked really well with it. I was able to keep my champ out of bad spots, and any turn I finished with any extra energy I could put some extra damage shields on Consumer of Crowns. I had enough draw to be guaranteed it would come back before final wave. This kept Consumer of Crowns alive through the Seraph fight.

Tokyo Sex Whale posted:

Consumer of Crowns is usually a trap but this is a pretty good deck/artifact setup to get him out at least. Still as your only banner unit and no energy upgrades you’ve got almost no chance of getting him out on your first turn.

This is the first time I've ever taken Consumer of Crowns. I expected it to be a trap, but it happened to work out. Yeah, it was difficult to play Consumer of Crowns until I got Impsicle. It didn't matter. Consumer of Crowns doesn't need to be a turn 1 play. My champion was doing a fine job taking out enemies on its own, I had enough AOE spells to clear out the weaker units, and I had a lot of big direct damage between Impolate and Ember Stasis + Abandoned Stave. So I'd just wait for it to come back around. This strategy worked well for ensuring it was still alive for the boss.

Tokyo Sex Whale posted:

On the whole it does look like a really strong card and artifact draw but one that should be scoring in the mid 40s at least, not squeaking out a win at 28.

I don't really give a poo poo about score, but LMAO, you're welcome to try to make 40k happen on that run if you want. Considering most of your advice was telling me to go back in time to upgrade cards or buy upgrades I was never offered, though, I think you're gonna have a tough time with that one.

Tokyo Sex Whale posted:

...but base game I think every run should be winnable.

At covenant 25 this just isn't true. It's barely true even for the highest tier clan combos. I understand the DLC makes the game even harder, but covenant 25 in the base game is still quite difficult, often in ways that are unfair.

Tokyo Sex Whale posted:

A win’s a win and I don’t want to be too critical if you managed to pull one out but just looking at this I think you can tell why you’d be having trouble with some combos. I haven’t replayed the run so I don’t know what options were available but some observations:

Yeah, so, funny thing... it turned out which options were available (and when) was highly relevant! I didn't appreciate the condescending tone. You come off like a jackass. The fact that you didn't bother to see I had a relic giving me free morsels every turn and dinged me for not having enough morsel generation was really something.

ErIog fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Aug 16, 2021

Tokyo Sex Whale
Oct 9, 2012

"My butt smells like vanilla ice cream"
That’s really something then.

Ultima66
Sep 2, 2008

As an addendum I'll point out that some of the mechanics in this game do need a look over because of certain boss mechanics. Frostbite and Reap are both very hard to work with because they don't work well against Divinity. Rage and Regen getting removed by one Seraph variant really fucks a lot of strategies as well.

Also there's just some straight up awful cards. Consumer of Crowns is up there as arguably the worst unit in the game. It really needs trample or built in multistrike or an actual health pool given how conditional playing him is. He doesn't have enough attack to kill heavies, can only hit 1 thing at a time by default, and doesn't survive poo poo on the front line. Also even post morsel buff most gorge cards still aren't very good and morsels aren't great at buffing your units without gorge.

ErIog
Jul 11, 2001

:nsacloud:

Ultima66 posted:

I'll repeat the analysis I've heard about beating this game, which is that there are 3 questions you need to answer in this game: how to kill heavies, how to kill backline, and how to kill the bosses. Heavies tend to be the hardest thing to answer, and are usually only really answered by high damage multistrike units. Backline has a lot of spell answers as well as having enough multistrike, things like vapor funnel, or sweep carries.

This is true for sure, and I knew it for a long time, but where I would get hung-up is making my decks worse by taking garbage I didn't need because I didn't realize I already had those questions answered. I've become a lot choosier about everything I take now, and have mostly broken myself of the habit of buying things like low value upgrades just to buy them. I think I'll probably have less trouble with the other clan combos on covenant 25 now.

SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013

I play via GamePass which to my knowledge does not include the dlc so I have no familiarity with its mechanics. I'm having a blast with the base stuff but is the dlc worth picking up? I guess I'd buy the game outright too if I were to do that.

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

ErIog posted:

Yeah, so, funny thing... it turned out which options were available (and when) was highly relevant! I didn't appreciate the condescending tone. You come off like a jackass. The fact that you didn't bother to see I had a relic giving me free morsels every turn and dinged me for not having enough morsel generation was really something.

Geeze, and you're calling him hostile? Relax.

not quite 40k but I played it kinda fast and loose with seraph.



I'm pretty sure that a significant majority of Cov25 runs are winnable, you just... Need to have a better idea of how things work which seems fine? :shrug:


ErIog posted:

At covenant 25 this just isn't true. It's barely true even for the highest tier clan combos. I understand the DLC makes the game even harder, but covenant 25 in the base game is still quite difficult, often in ways that are unfair.


If you have examples, I do love a challenge.

Acerbatus fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Aug 17, 2021

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Ultima66
Sep 2, 2008

SettingSun posted:

I play via GamePass which to my knowledge does not include the dlc so I have no familiarity with its mechanics. I'm having a blast with the base stuff but is the dlc worth picking up? I guess I'd buy the game outright too if I were to do that.

The big thing with the DLC, and why people talk about pre/post DLC difficulty, is that DLC adds a thing which is optional buildings you can visit at each layer that adds to a counter called pact shards for interacting with them. Getting pact shards causes random enemies to get massive stat buffs in fights. The strongest monsters you'll see without the DLC are at a very different range of numbers you'll see with the DLC, meaning whether X amount of attack power or Y amount of life is good enough to fight enemies pre/post DLC changes a lot. The other thing is that if you finish a run with 100 Pact Shards, you'll fight the true final boss, which is its own can of worms you have to know how to fight effectively. If you don't take any pact shards at all, a run with DLC and without DLC is mostly identical, outside of a few DLC exclusive cards and of course the 6th clan being available. But since the DLC is a thing, most people don't consider a run really "won" unless you also beat the true last boss, so any discussion around DLC gameplay revolves around dealing with shard buffed enemies and the true last boss.

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