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twoday posted:I too was shocked to learn that so many people outside of c-spam read c-spam, but it turns out that they do, especially if they are mods and it’s a thread that generates tons of reports every day. Weird, but true I hope they realize that the reason why it generates so many reports every day is because there are comparatively few outlets for people to actually genuinely and fully express their legitimate complaints about the forums' policies without fear of reprisal. The succ zone, at times, feels like the last place people can vent even slightly. As it stands, the current non-constructive state of QCS, combined with the seemingly-permanent closure of the General Election thread and the banning of any general election talk in D&D, has created something of a pressure cooker atmosphere here. I don't think it's fair to blame those threads or their regulars, though; we didn't create these conditions. (neither did you. You are doing a fine job. But the mods, as a group, have created a pretty volatile situation)
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May 27, 2020 08:16
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twoday posted:Weird. Encouraging people on the forums to look up pictures of other people on the forums is weird. Noted public persona Shaun King is who was given the name. That's a moderation criticism I give to you, knowing what the topic of conversation is about when its something controversial is helpful when you have to make chocies. The other post you quoted is referring to a post also directly in this thread, here. oxsnard posted:Mods, please probe this idiot. Thanks But the posters already been probated for some other slur and I don't think I can change their mind anyways. Not really here for just raw grudges. Sharkopath has issued a correction as of 08:31 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 08:22
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Majorian posted:I hope they realize that the reason why it generates so many reports every day is because there are comparatively few outlets for people to actually genuinely and fully express their legitimate complaints about the forums' policies without fear of reprisal. The succ zone, at times, feels like the last place people can vent even slightly. As it stands, the current non-constructive state of QCS, combined with the seemingly-permanent closure of the General Election thread and the banning of any general election talk in D&D, has created something of a pressure cooker atmosphere here. I don't think it's fair to blame those threads or their regulars, though; we didn't create these conditions. I understand this and I'm not shutting down the conversation, but this isn't the right place for it either. More posts like this one are good though, because if I have a stack of them I can take them to to the mod forum and slam them down on the desk and say, "hey, the posters of c-spam have a valid criticism of how the forums work right now, here's what they have to say." But the thing is that I think a lot of them are actually aware of this, but they don't know what to do about it. Neither do I. Do you?
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May 27, 2020 08:31
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Sharkopath posted:Noted public persona Shaun King is who was given the name. That's a moderation criticism I give to you, knowing what the topic of conversation is about when its something controversial is helpful when you have to make chocies. Sorry, I assumed "Talcum X" was a C-SPAM poster. Doesn't that sound like a C-SPAM user name? quote:But the posters already been probated for some other slur and I don't think I can change their mind anyways. Not really here for just raw grudges. Cool, thanks. But please speak up if you think someone is unfairly going unpunished for something.
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May 27, 2020 08:37
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twoday posted:I understand this and I'm not shutting down the conversation, but this isn't the right place for it either. More posts like this one are good though, because if I have a stack of them I can take them to to the mod forum and slam them down on the desk and say, "hey, the posters of c-spam have a valid criticism of how the forums work right now, here's what they have to say." But the thing is that I think a lot of them are actually aware of this, but they don't know what to do about it. Neither do I. Do you? I think a lot of them don't really care enough to take the time to read CSPAM and try to understand the context in which we're posting. Which is unfortunate, because while I don't expect it to be everyone's brand of humor or political discourse, if they're going to try to mod a forum governed by "woke"/progressive/inclusive principles, they really should try to understand what this thread/forum is that's generating so many reports in the first place. I realize that a lot of FYAD posters also said the same thing about their forum, of course, but hey, we're not posting Nazi or transphobic poo poo here.
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May 27, 2020 08:48
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Hello, I took the thirty seconds to remove instances of the r-word and replaced them with rear end in a top hat. Please save this over the previous instance, but do keep it handy because its loving amazing and sums up the posting careers of half of D&Dquote:A better analogy would be if someone walks into a championship tournament, says "GEE I THINK I MAY HAVE TRANSCENDED THE UNDERSTANDING OF SOME OF YOU GRANDMASTERS HERE, WANT TO JOIN MY NEW SCHOOL OF CHESS STRATEGY?", then loses by scholar's mate twice in the first round.
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May 27, 2020 11:12
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I mean I don't know if you even need all that, the problem is that people like Duane Gish (or for a more modern example, Ben Shapiro) have turned 'debate with enforced decorum' into a solved game; if you can smear poo poo on the walls faster then your opponent can clean it up, you 'win' every time.
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May 27, 2020 11:39
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Thats a weak, baby brained CSPAM response though. You can't just say things, you need a 500 word essay to properly convey an argument in D&D
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May 27, 2020 11:58
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Random rear end in a top hat posted:From the other thread: pretty much all that needs to be said
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May 27, 2020 12:51
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LGD posted:I will say that one concrete thing I genuinely think would help in both the short and long runs is the overdue elevation of C-SPAM to a top-level forum, which addresses a number of issues simultaneously - it provides legitimacy/a concrete sign C-SPAM is here to stay (regardless of any future reforms/moderation changes that may/may not still happen), represents some follow-through from the moderation staff regarding something they had appeared amenable to in the past, it provides useful psychological/organizational separation from D&D, and it soothes all of the OCD feelings re: current forum organization vs. relative popularity LOL, remember after the PPJ thing the mods insisted that they were having an Entmoot to get together and reach consensus and make a decision and write a letter to everyone about whether CSPAM would be made top level, then it turned out they were lying and didn't do any of that
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May 27, 2020 12:53
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Oh Snapple! posted:If anything "endangers" c-spam it's the climate where you can insult a mod in one of the busiest megathreads here and then this apparently sends up a loving signal for several who have nothing to loving do with this forum to show up. It's all fun and games until NYC_Tattoo shows up
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May 27, 2020 13:00
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I vaguely recall an excuse that moving a subforum to a top level forum would explode Radium code and crash everything, and moving CSPAM would require making a new top level forum altogether and people would have to recreate threads or have them manually moved over, and that was too much work. Sounds like bullshit though. Making new threads isnt rocket science, and the old CSPAM could be archived like other old subforums in case people desperately needed old posts
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May 27, 2020 13:04
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twoday posted:Sorry, I assumed "Talcum X" was a C-SPAM poster. Doesn't that sound like a C-SPAM user name? No, this is absurd btw. I don't even like Shaun King and I think he's a grifter. Talcum is a chalky white powder. It's literally erasing his racial identity and saying "he looks white so he doesn't matter" It's not a "great own," it's pure loving bigotry/race science and that's true no matter what the race of the person making the joke is or whether they knew it came from Nazis
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May 27, 2020 13:08
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Eh! Frank posted:also lol that the Star Wars jokes forum is a top level forum and CSPAM isn't
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May 27, 2020 13:08
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This is gonna be a bit of a scattershot post since there's a lot being talked about in this thread. I think in general our (CSPAM's) moderators are doing a great job under very difficult circumstances. I think there are definitely some decisions we as a community need to come to about acceptable posting behavior (violence, doxxing, etc.), and I'd like to hope we can do that based on what's good for us (CSPAM) as a community and not based on what we believe will appease the (real or imaginary) rampaging hordes of QCS/GBS/the No Justice/No Peace/No FYAD thread. (Also plz do not probate people based on what we believe will appease the (real or imaginary) rampaging hordes of QCS/GBS/the No Justice/No Peace/No FYAD thread.) My phrasing above is deliberate; I think we need to come to those answers as a forum, not simply have them imposed upon us from on high. (A certain amount of imposition will be necessary, as concessions to the realities of our situation, but I hope that can be kept to a minimum.) And it really does feel like our mod team is open to that, and I hope that continues. * * * I don't give a poo poo whether CSPAM is a top level forum or not. It was originally a concern because of concerns of D&D mods abusing their power in CSPAM but the most egregious example of that involved a D&D mod recruiting a CSPAM mod to do the dirty work. (And let's not relitigate this; it happened, we all know it happened, there was photographic proof that it happened, it is loving settled, and none of the people involved are mods any more so that's that.) In any event, there's been a tacit agreement that D&D moderators will stay on their side of the fence and so far that's held. I find it interesting that there's been so much resistance to something so meaningless though, and I don't buy that every reason for that can be laid at the feet of Radium, the Coding Devil. Like, if it would make some people happy and wouldn't actively upset anyone, there's zero reason not to do it, so the logical conclusion is that it would actively upset someone. As to who would be upset and why, who knows? * * * I don't have an opinion on Fluffdaddy as a TGRS/TMR/whatever it's called this week moderator. I simply don't know enough about what went down to form one, and people I trust have multiple versions of that story which tells me only that it was a big mess. He should not be modding QCS, though I don't envy anyone the task of walking through that particular poo poo-covered minefield right now. That's a diplomatic post, and whatever Fluffdaddy may or may not be, he is unquestionably not a diplomat.
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May 27, 2020 14:00
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Oh also Roth seems good and cool and I really like the new sci-fi chat forum.
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May 27, 2020 14:00
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oxsnard posted:No, this is absurd btw. I don't even like Shaun King and I think he's a grifter. Talcum is a chalky white powder. It's literally erasing his racial identity and saying "he looks white so he doesn't matter" I get the sense that you are referring to some sort of previous conversation which happened before and which I haven't read, but literally the first time I heard of this is the post in this thread which said, Sharkopath posted:Talcum X is also a really funny own. Now that you and the others have explained the comment somewhat, I have been reread this entire thread and found the earlier mention of it, and now I am able to understand from context that this post seems to be a reference to an earlier post made by Oh Snapple! which was itself a reference to another post that was made at some point in history somewhere on the planet earth by fluffdaddy. And it seems that there is some valid discussion about that phrase to be had, but you should talk to him about it. Unless it was made in C-SPAM (which I am am almost sure that it wasn't since he never posts here), then why is it coming up in this Mod Feedback zone thread? But once again, I have not read all the same posts as you. Several posters here seem to be referring to conversations which occurred in another subforum, and are assuming everyone else knows what they are talking about. Sharkopath posted:Noted public persona Shaun King is who was given the name. That's a moderation criticism I give to you, knowing what the topic of conversation is about when its something controversial is helpful when you have to make chocies. So, if I'm reading this correctly, the moderation criticism here which you are giving to me is that I did not know what any of you referring to? When nobody quoted it, or even mentioned what thread it was posted in? Or what subforum? I'm assuming it was in TGRS, and if that's the case, then do you really think it's a valid criticism of me as a c-spam mod that I haven't read every every other post in every other subforum? And don't bother digging up the post, because this is not "The TGRS Mod Feedback Zone." If it wasn't posted in C-SPAM, it's not relevant to this thread, and I don't care. My criticism and feedback to C-SPAM posters is that there are several of you who, when you approach the mod team with issues, treat us as if we are tapped into some monolithic mod hivemind which is fully aware of every post that's ever been made on the forums, and the context of every discussion which has occurred. But I am not that, I am just some random rear end in a top hat from c-spam who they gave mod buttons to. I read c-spam and the mod forum, and that's it. I read QCS sometimes, but I don't read every post. I don't read D&D. I have never read TGRS, and guess what, I don't have to. It falls outside of the pervues of my responsibilities as a C-SPAM moderator, and there is enough for me to do around here. Please keep this in mind when you are talking to us as mods. You all clearly have a bunch of criticisms with how the site as a whole is run, but we are not moderators of the entire forums, we are moderators of C-SPAM, and there is only so much we can do for you. We are willing to listen to any serious criticisms you have about how things are run in this sub-forum, but please do not conflate C-SPAM and your entire forums experience. These are two seperate issues, and I can only help you with one of them. We want to help you have a better subforum and a better posting experience, but we are not omniscient forums entities, we are human beings with a finite amount of awareness and agency. Keeping that in mind when you discuss things with us would really make it a lot easier for us to improve things for you!
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May 27, 2020 14:17
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twoday posted:My criticism and feedback to C-SPAM posters is that there are several of you who, when you approach the mod team with issues, treat us as if we are tapped into some monolithic mod hivemind which is fully aware of every post that's ever been made on the forums, and the context of every discussion which has occurred. But I am not that, I am just some random rear end in a top hat from c-spam who they gave mod buttons to. I read c-spam and the mod forum, and that's it. I read QCS sometimes, but I don't read every post. I don't read D&D. I have never read TGRS, and guess what, I don't have to. It falls outside of the pervues of my responsibilities as a C-SPAM moderator, and there is enough for me to do around here.
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May 27, 2020 14:21
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Sharkopath posted:Talcum X is also a really funny own. To get back to this post, now that I am aware of the context, I do not think it is a "really funny own." oxsnard posted:No, this is absurd btw. I don't even like Shaun King and I think he's a grifter. Talcum is a chalky white powder. It's literally erasing his racial identity and saying "he looks white so he doesn't matter" OK, it sounds like you have something to discuss with fluffdaddy. Why don't you send him a PM about it? Why are you having this conversation in the c-spam mod feedback zone? Why are you having it with me?
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May 27, 2020 14:22
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Rastor posted:This can work as a moderation system but if that's the setup then in exchange the mods of the forums you sometimes or never read should stay out of c-spam and if their citizens complain about c-spam, refer them to the c-spam mods instead of getting involved That's not up to me. It is their right to come to c-spam and read things here, and to reply in their capacity as Something Awful forums posters. They still have blue stars when they post here, but their mod buttons don't work here. Here they are just posters, and I will try to hold them to the same standards as other posters here. It is their choice. They choose to read and post in c-spam. I choose not to read TGRS and D&D. A lot of them actually just casually read c-spam as a way to get news or whatever, just like you. They don't only come here when there is trouble, like that time with PPJ everyone is referring to, but I think they often choose not to participate in every conversation they read. But sometimes they do. And a bunch of them read Succzone because it's been a troublesome thread lately with a lot of reports, and I bet a lot of them read this too, because it's about moderation. twoday has issued a correction as of 14:46 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 14:27
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twoday posted:To get back to this post, now that I am aware of the context, I do not think it is a "really funny own." no, I have something to discuss with the person itt who thinks "Talcum X" is a great own and then doubled down by saying "look at his skin color"
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May 27, 2020 14:30
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oxsnard posted:no, I have something to discuss with the person itt who thinks "Talcum X" is a great own and then doubled down by saying "look at his skin color" OK, got it.
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May 27, 2020 14:34
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It would help deconstruct the image of mods as a monolith if discussions about moderators didnt attract a half dozen mods who have never posted in CSPAM to bring in their opinions on CSPAM. Its also going to take time to repair trust after the mods as a monolithic whole closed ranks to protect PPJ's secret spy mission. Thats not on you twoday but its still fresh in many people's minds. Also you get dumbass mods stumbling in to declare that CSPAM DOXXED A MOD! as a point about... something. And then anyone who makes the mistake of going to QCS gets to have an encounter with the QCS mods, which can be a real roulette wheel of moderation practices. But the mods (almost) always support each other in public, no matter how dumb their decisions, further creating the perception that the mods are a unified monolith
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May 27, 2020 14:37
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I actually think a bunch of D&D mods are fine when they post here, maybe use the period a little too much but quite a few of them have a lot to add to this forum. Let's not turn a socialist fyad-lite into an exclusive zone. However I will say that I think a few recent probes (in QCS) are real bad. The guy keeping lists gets the same length kitty jail as people criticising him despite the mod doing the probes admitting the thread feels like a honeypot? It discourages people with legit grievances from posting and rewards the poo poo-stirrers. Hell, I'd post that there but I'm afraid of it devolving into bullshit and getting stuck with a week out of the blue. As a result, discussions around moderation devolve into drama. For the record I think the changes to crack down on suggestions of violence are good, as is having more mods and I think they're trying to do a decent job.
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May 27, 2020 14:38
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dex_sda posted:However I will say that I think a few recent probes (in QCS) are real bad. The guy keeping lists gets the same length kitty jail as people criticising him despite the mod doing the probes admitting the thread feels like a honeypot? It discourages people with legit grievances from posting and rewards the poo poo-stirrers. Hell, I'd post that there but I'm afraid of it devolving into bullshit and getting stuck with a week out of the blue. I genuinely want to open up a QCS thread about the draconian punishment that goes on in that forum, but I don't want to eat a loving week for speaking out. Maybe one of the mods responding to this thread can safely broach that topic without being nuked from orbit.
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May 27, 2020 14:40
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Yeah, it's not great to be told, "CSPAM, stop holding on to your grudges!" and then get, "Uh, CSPAM doxxed a mod," like, why are we supposed to have short memories but everyone else gets long ones? Ah well, c'est la vie.
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May 27, 2020 14:44
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twoday posted:Wait a sec, actually this is C-SPAM, and I have no idea what most of you are talking about. If it is related to C-SPAM, however, please feel free to explain it In further detail. But if it’s not related to C-SPAM... I’m complaining about the uspol threads (mostly the GE one) that apparently has generated most of the reports the mod team gets sitewide. I’m mentioning it here because afaik there’s no more appropriate place to do so. D&D doesn’t have one of these threads and in QCS it seems like I’ll eat a probe for “trying to own my posting enemies” or something like everyone else that’s complained about this has. I don’t know which mod to PM about this if that’s what I’m supposed to do, but I can just send them my post you quoted verbatim if that’s really the only appropriate way to voice my criticism.
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May 27, 2020 14:47
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Nix Panicus posted:It would help deconstruct the image of mods as a monolith if discussions about moderators didnt attract a half dozen mods who have never posted in CSPAM to bring in their opinions on CSPAM. Its also going to take time to repair trust after the mods as a monolithic whole closed ranks to protect PPJ's secret spy mission. Thats not on you twoday but its still fresh in many people's minds. Of course it will take time. I'm really trying my best, though! quote:
The reason they brought this up was that I said there have been issues recently which have brought mod team attention to c-spam, and that the words "doxxing" and "c-spam" are now associated in their minds. Oh Snapple! said, "it's unfair to have that association if the doxxing was only of a c-spam poster by someone from D&D.” They mentioned it in that context, to correct something which I said which omitted this fact. twoday has issued a correction as of 16:25 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 14:54
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Can we please get the CSPAM police thread back? There is no real place to discuss the recent shooting.
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May 27, 2020 14:54
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dex_sda posted:I actually think a bunch of D&D mods are fine when they post here, maybe use the period a little too much but quite a few of them have a lot to add to this forum. Let's not turn a socialist fyad-lite into an exclusive zone. Yeah I should elaborate that I unironically welcome everyone including mods and admins to participate in c-spam and become part of the community, even liberals if they're posting in good faith and not drive-by trolling It's never reading c-spam, having no concept of what is actually posted here, only kramering in when there's an uptick in reports or flare-up in qcs that I object to
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May 27, 2020 14:56
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Rastor posted:Yeah I should elaborate that I unironically welcome everyone including mods and admins to participate in c-spam and become part of the community, even liberals if they're posting in good faith and not drive-by trolling For sure. I would even say I like outsider shitposters like Arf because he just posts poo poo in good trolling fun. It's when others trying to be cool pop in and authoritatively stir poo poo as if they knew anything about the subforum is when that crap gets tiresome.
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May 27, 2020 15:03
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Rastor posted:Yeah I should elaborate that I unironically welcome everyone including mods and admins to participate in c-spam and become part of the community, even liberals if they're posting in good faith and not drive-by trolling As I mentioned, I think some of them do read it fairly regularly but usually don't just casually shitpost I guess because they don't want to be yelled at for being cops or whatever, but then do feel compelled to say something when the discussion is about moderation
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May 27, 2020 15:04
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I genuinely want to open up a QCS thread about the draconian punishment that goes on in that forum, but I don't want to eat a loving week for speaking out. Maybe one of the mods responding to this thread can safely broach that topic without being nuked from orbit. Pentecoastal Elites posted:I’m complaining about the uspol threads (mostly the GE one) that apparently has generated most of the reports the mod team gets sitewide. I've pointed these posts out to the relevant mods, the police should be here shortly but again, it's not really relevant to this thread so I kindly request that you do that in PMs if possible
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May 27, 2020 15:07
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err posted:Can we please get the CSPAM police thread back? There is no real place to discuss the recent shooting. good morning cspam I’m posting on company time here so I will try to catch up this afternoon but I wanted to respond to this by reminding you that the cop thread was closed because it so consistently misbehaved that it drew the ire of Lowtax himself, so if we desire to have nice things we must behave accordingly.
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May 27, 2020 15:09
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err posted:Can we please get the CSPAM police thread back? There is no real place to discuss the recent shooting. What happened to the thread? E: ^ nvm
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May 27, 2020 15:10
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Lightning Knight posted:good morning cspam Which means we can't have a new one with strict rules? edit: And really this goes back to my original point, why is it so hard to get consistent rules and enforcement? We keep getting told how mods have rules they follow, but never told what those are. We don't want to permaban people but also we're all frustrated by the same people who keep coming back and can't behave themselves. A dumb joke is a month but a slur is two weeks. Gumball Gumption has issued a correction as of 15:24 on May 27, 2020 |
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May 27, 2020 15:21
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twoday posted:I too was shocked to learn that so many people outside of c-spam read c-spam, but it turns out that they do, especially if they are mods and it’s a thread that generates tons of reports every day. Weird, but true So springing off of this, how many reports does cspam generate every day, and how does that number compare to other popular subforums like gbs, d&d, or games even?
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May 27, 2020 15:23
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I just want to say that while I understand why this thread was created, these feedback threads take up a lot of time and energy on the mod side. We had one stickied at the top of c-spam for about a week recently and we want to make that a recurring quarterly thing, but we don't want to have a permanent micro-QCS here because there is a lot of potential for problems with that. So this thread will be open for a bit, to address the issues it arose from, but it's going to be closed relatively soon. And after that you can always PM us with pressing issues, or wait a few months till the next thread to give more general feedback.
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May 27, 2020 15:24
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Vim Fuego posted:It's all fun and games until NYC_Tattoo shows up 
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May 27, 2020 15:25
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DemoneeHo posted:So springing off of this, how many reports does cspam generate every day, and how does that number compare to other popular subforums like gbs, d&d, or games even? It varies. D&D gets a ton, perhaps the most, but it's all stuff like "inappropriate use of tu quoque argumentative structure" and "inappropriately formatted link" and violations of their many individual thread rules. C-SPAM doesn't get a ton in comparison, and most of them are not actionable, but there have been enough about violent posts and murderporn since that stickied forums announcement about not posting death threats that it was making people uncomfortable
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May 27, 2020 15:31
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