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OwlFancier posted:I currently have a nice smooth, straight, and de-knotted stick. And a severe case of wanker's cramp. The thing you're looking for is a "ferrule" https://www.walkingsticks.co.uk/type-h-ultra-metal-walking-stick-ferrule.html Snipe Edit: The name evolved from Middle French virelle and Old French virol and ultimately from Latin viriola, meaning "small bracelet." The "f" spelling of today's ferrule was influenced by ferrum, the Latin word for "iron."
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Jun 1, 2020 18:26
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this is a good twitter thread about the EHRC https://twitter.com/HowUpsetting/status/1267483184612114434?s=20 https://twitter.com/HowUpsetting/status/1267486421461467141?s=20 https://twitter.com/HowUpsetting/status/1267490342246457345?s=20 https://twitter.com/HowUpsetting/status/1267506522533310464?s=20
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Jun 1, 2020 18:30
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AceClown posted:The thing you're looking for is a "ferrule" Oh hey, I didn't know they sold them. I actually found the concept of a ferrule the other day but didn't think that they'd just sell them. Will have a skeg and see if I can find something. Cheers!
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Jun 1, 2020 18:31
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jabby posted:Take into account that unlike other countries US cops are routinely issued guns and sent to police a heavily-armed populace, and it's maybe not surprising they do such an abysmal job. ACAB, but some are more B than others. It's used as a case for armed citizen militias and good guys with guns, but it's true and most large city police departments only train twice a year and that's pretty terrifying especially if they're being allowed to do no-knock raids and poo poo like this keeps happening. As per PolitiFact and a 2008 Rand study. quote:Hit ratios were below 30 percent for gunfights (18 percent) and from long ranges (23 percent from more than seven yards away). However, in cases where suspects did not return fire, NYPD officers hit their targets 30 percent of the time. Accuracy levels were above 30 percent when the target was seven yards away or closer (37 percent). I'm not sure "we're actually not poo poo with our guns, which we need in case people shoot at us, as long as they're not shooting at us" is a spectacular justification.
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Jun 1, 2020 18:35
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jabby posted:Replying from the other thread because it's actually an interesting point about how you deal with racist cops. But how do you get there from here? Train up entire new forces then just replace the existing ones? I can't imagine anything getting better for *anyone* in that interim period. Maybe it's just a failure of imagination on my part but I can't see anything (absent a large-scale civil war, or some other massive upheaval to society) that lets you rip apart and remake the system without consequences similar to the fallout from a civil war, at least in the short term. (Comedy option - if we're insisting on getting technology involved in everything, how about instead of cameras, make all cops wear AR goggles that turn everyone into the pastiest of WASPs)
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Jun 1, 2020 18:39
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30% accuracy is still like multiple orders of magnitude more accurate than the army. Main takeaway I think is that on a statistical level, in a fight, guns just aren't very accurate.
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Jun 1, 2020 18:42
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OwlFancier posted:30% accuracy is still like multiple orders of magnitude more accurate than the army. Depends if you're trying to hit anything or not
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Jun 1, 2020 18:46
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OwlFancier posted:30% accuracy is still like multiple orders of magnitude more accurate than the army. i recall that most bullets in armed conflict are used for suppression of the enemy rather than actual killing?
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Jun 1, 2020 18:52
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Yes, but you need to do that because they're shooting at you. And trying very hard to hit people rather than 1. not getting shot yourself and 2. hoping someone else will sort it out are both pretty unavoidable human factors. Just broadly there is no way to be the guy from equilibrium in real life. Much less to create a society based around everyone being the guy from equilibrium. Though that doesn't stop weirdo right wingers from belieiving that you can and should do that. Even with a volunteer army which selects for people who presumably find the idea of going and shooting other people appealing, there's a mountain more misses than hits. If you're suggesting that everyone in society should be ready to participate in shootouts then that's not going to improve, as it didn't during wars when there was a draft. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Jun 1, 2020 |
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Jun 1, 2020 18:55
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Gonzo McFee posted:https://twitter.com/simonwiesenthal/status/1267159665164513281?s=19 https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/st...ingawful.com%2F
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Jun 1, 2020 18:56
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goddamnedtwisto posted:But how do you get there from here? Train up entire new forces then just replace the existing ones? I can't imagine anything getting better for *anyone* in that interim period. Maybe it's just a failure of imagination on my part but I can't see anything (absent a large-scale civil war, or some other massive upheaval to society) that lets you rip apart and remake the system without consequences similar to the fallout from a civil war, at least in the short term. (You can also debate how much of what led up to it was a large-scale civil war.) We can also start looking at alternatives to policing that can run alongside them. Not the NRA's appeal to armed citizen militias, that often just ends up replicating the failures of the police, but some thoughts: Violence Reduction Units, either run by cities or groups of people, to use the disease model for violent crime. Restorative and communal justice alongside/instead of punitive courts and prisons. Citizen peaceful patrol groups that aren't bearded neoconfederates with assault weapons. Less crimes, we're obsessed with creating new crimes and then wondering why the justice system gets overworked. Maybe feed and house people instead of having prisons do it. The idea of the clockwork society where everything runs according to top-down series of commandments is plainly one that is full of people in cages, and every alternative seems to be saying a variation of the same thing: make people happier and healthier and give them more of a say in their lives and there's less crime and less need for policing. Jel Shaker posted:i recall that most bullets in armed conflict are used for suppression of the enemy rather than actual killing?
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Jun 1, 2020 19:03
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jabby posted:Calling the police on anyone, in any country, should come with the understanding that you might at least ruin their life if not get them or innocent bystanders hurt/killed. The number of times British police have been called for a "welfare concern" and proceeded to straight up murder the person whose welfare they weren't meant to be checking on is not insignificant. Wth, we people in Europe mostly really cant complain about the police. If there is a problem you dont want to solve with violence yourself or need documentation about something, you call them. I pay taxes, so i use this service.
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Jun 1, 2020 19:23
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The police are the professional violence doers of the moneyed class, yes. No argument there.
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Jun 1, 2020 19:26
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OwlFancier posted:I currently have a nice smooth, straight, and de-knotted stick. And a severe case of wanker's cramp. Two options: one as noted above, a ferrule, which wraps around but doesn't cover the end. Make it out of a bit of metal pipe. Fitting it can be a bit of a struggle if you can't use a lathe to get the size correct, but certainly isn't impossible, easier if you can heat up the ferrule and burn it onto the wood to get the final shaping and use the shrinkage of the metal to get a tight fit.. Second would be a cap. Easiest way would honestly probably just be to get a rubber walking-stick foot, they're like quid and they won't ding up anyone's floor, and they're trivial to fit. If you're set on metal, then I guess a plumbing cap the right size would work, I wouldn't want to rely on just a thread to hold it on though, I'd probably want to drill and pin it on, with nails doing diagonally down towards the base of the stick. But honestly, if it's a decent piece of hardwood stick, just fire hardening it and dunking it in varnish should give it plenty of life unless you're leaning your whole weight on it and doing so on concrete, routinely.
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Jun 1, 2020 19:30
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https://twitter.com/DailyMirror/status/1267415123041320960 ikea is back, nature is healing
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Jun 1, 2020 19:31
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thespaceinvader posted:Two options: one as noted above, a ferrule, which wraps around but doesn't cover the end. Make it out of a bit of metal pipe. Fitting it can be a bit of a struggle if you can't use a lathe to get the size correct, but certainly isn't impossible, easier if you can heat up the ferrule and burn it onto the wood to get the final shaping and use the shrinkage of the metal to get a tight fit.. Softwood I think, got it as a branch that the forestry had lopped off something and I'm shite at identifying trees at the best of times, it's strong enough but the one I've got at the moment I wore the cap and the end off pretty quick, so I might try a ferrule or a plumbing cap, plumbing cap attached to a threaded pipe fitting would be nice cos I could swap it with a spiked one for when it rains. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jun 1, 2020 |
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Jun 1, 2020 19:36
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AutismVaccine posted:Thats the most tinfoily thing i read here for a while. gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you're white
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Jun 1, 2020 19:45
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Yeah I don't think many folks in West Belfast, Europe or Derry, Europe are going to share op's lovely functionalist view of the police, either
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Jun 1, 2020 19:54
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AutismVaccine posted:Thats the most tinfoily thing i read here for a while. Police, courts, and lawyers should really be the last resort where index crimes, murder and non-negligent homicide, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, arson, etc. are committed. Otherwise, if there is a problem you don't want to solve with violence yourself, your first port of call should be a professional mediator, community justice, or civil dispute resolution. If it isn't, it's usually because access to these doesn't exist or costs thousands, whereas access to police is free (for now). That, along with the attitude that "there ought to be a law" is the first response to something that people don't like rather than "there ought to be a community driven change" are things that should change.
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Jun 1, 2020 19:59
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Just applied for an MA course that I'm completely unqualified for but which I'm 80% sure I'm going to get accepted into because of nepotism and the universities being desperate for students after the ronageddon lol.
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Jun 1, 2020 20:02
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Guavanaut posted:You can debate how much of an improvement going from the RUC to the PSNI is, but it is an improvement. I started typing something up about this last night but couldn't quite get my meaning across (it's possible I actually posted it, as this isn't normally a barrier) that one of the biggest problems with modern police at least here and in the US is how little actual police work they get up to. They probably spend more time doing front-line social service work than catching criminals although they often deal with the former, as you say, by turning them into the latter - homelessness, for example, should never be a police matter (of course it just shouldn't be a matter at all), but years of gutting social services (and society) have meant that they've been used as a temporary fix for just about all of society's ills. In a perfect world this could actually still work - PCSOs could be trained in basic social work and be that first port of call, even if all they end up as is walking directories of (properly funded, of course) government agencies that could help someone in distress and being the general face of the Old Bill. Using them as warm bodies in high-vis satisfies nobody. Actually the high-vis is part of the problem. I've joked about it in the past but the utility vests and other tacticool bollocks they wear definitely have a big psychic effect on both sides. If nothing else the natural reflex to hook their thumbs in the arm holes *definitely* transforms them into Dickensian beadles. It's also a fundamentally military look, something that breaks the most fundamental principle of (British) policing, that the police are of the people and not an occupying force. Bring back the old uniform, tit-head and all - make the pockets a bit bigger and make the coat out of kevlar and you've got something with as much use as the modern uniform, but maybe will remind everyone that they're not in Fallujah. We sneer (with some justification) at the idea of "bobbies on the beat" but the idea of having a known, familiar face behind the uniform, seen as an everyday thing, not someone swooping in with sound and fury, is a drat good one for all concerned. Get plod back to seeing themselves as part of society, not a power over it (and get people seeing them as the same thing) and you fix a lot of problems. The Peelian principles are, I think, still a very sound basis for the enforcement of civil authority. Whether they can truly be adhered to is another matter, of course. (Sorry, that's still really rambly and unfocused, but tbh I'm getting serious lockdown brain at this point)
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Jun 1, 2020 20:10
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ronya posted:I don't think OF had that specifically in mind - hence my quick sketch of why, in fact, a union 'without politics' is a real thing that exists in UK labour law yeah that was more about Lord Adumbass  signal boosting it for reasons, he's probably not excited to bring the good news about funding technicalities to the tweetiverse
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Jun 1, 2020 20:18
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lmao https://twitter.com/DrHannahWhite/status/1267530657565204480?s=20
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Jun 1, 2020 20:24
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AutismVaccine posted:Thats the most tinfoily thing i read here for a while. What the gently caress are you on about? Because our filth aren't quite at the level of American policing (mainly because they aren't all armed rather than anything magic about our polis) we can't complain about them? Get out of here with that bollocks.
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Jun 1, 2020 20:24
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Our democratic structures are completely degenerate lmao
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Jun 1, 2020 20:28
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communism bitch posted:Our democratic structures are completely degenerate lmao i legit hope coronavirus kills a load of tories because this backfires horribly
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Jun 1, 2020 20:32
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Also picking up this thread and some points that were made before closurejabby posted:Now I firmly believe that to address a systemic problem, you need to stop asking who is to blame for wrongdoing and instead ask what's to blame. I'm not talking specifically about police killings and especially not George Floyd, because obviously justice needs to be served in those cases. But more about constant harassment of black people by police, why American police kill people in general, and why departments policing black neighbourhoods are overwhelmingly white. I don't think you can address those things by weeding out 'bad' cops, but they would ideally be weeded out naturally by sweeping reforms. There's surely a lot of mileage in targeting senior management, the people who make the decisions about where resources are deployed, how they get deployed, and what tactics they use. Anecdotally, there seems to be quite a lot of cops out there even in this country who work in poor/heavy-BAME areas, they're working with or alongside targeted put-some-stick-about initiatives that mysteriously only happen to get targeted at places where BAME people live, they spend a lot of their time chasing black teenagers around, and naturally fall into sloppy conscious or unconscious "this is what *I* see happen all the time, so it must be like this everywhere" thinking. jabby posted:Minimum two years training to become a police officer in the UK. Minimum three years in Norway. On a point of pedantry, initial police training in the UK is a lot shorter than a US academy. It varies by force, but is usually between 14 and 20 weeks (11 weeks in Scotland; 23 weeks for Northern Ireland, mostly because they're routinely armed), and the remainder of an officer's probation is spent learning on the job. The US model works the same way. goddamnedtwisto posted:A solidly-enforced disciplinary and judicial process would have a massive mutliplier effect once the convictions started rolling in because you're removing that impunity. I'm sure - just as after Countryman and the other big anti-corruption sweeps of the 70s and 80s - you'd see a lot of coppers suddenly deciding coppering isn't for them any more for entirely unrelated reasons, and we can all wave them goodbye. This speaks to one of the major system failures for the US; here, we at least have a national barring list which all police officers sacked for gross misconduct are added to, so officers like PC Simon Harwood (who killed Ian Tomlinson) can at least be out of a job for good even when criminal charges fail. In the US such a thing would be against the inalienable rights of each state to employ any old tosser, and it's relatively easy even for an officer who's been sacked for use of force concerns to jump a few towns, or a few states over, and start fresh. If eventually they acquire too much of a reputation even for Sheriff Rosco P Coltrane to give them a job, they can try going to a quasi-police agency like Border Patrol, or becoming a prison officer. The other thing about Countryman et al is that it was concerned with outright corruption, as in, direct collusion with criminals in exchange for money. The US has had similar moments (the Knapp and Mollen commissions, the fall of Rampart CRASH, etc.) and made some decent advances in cutting down on yer actual corruption. Corruption is a lot more clear-cut to prove to a criminal standard than excessive force is, though. "I genuinely believed I was in the right to trouser gigantic bungs from known villains", or "I genuinely believed I was justified in running a drugs reselling ring" is self-evidently not credible, whereas "I genuinely believed my life was in danger" may or may not be credible, and its credibility depends entirely on the facts of the case, the skills of the people arguing those facts, and often on whether the officer has people willing to lie for them. Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jun 1, 2020 |
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Jun 1, 2020 20:33
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Guavanaut posted:That's because there's very few alternatives, and most of the alternatives aren't available to the average person or are makeshift solutions by marginalized communities. And because there's no alternatives there's very little you can do when police themselves are involved. I’m sorry, are you saying that if someone in your family is killed, instead of ringing the police you should look at all other possible avenues of things to do? Like call up a priest to see if he could raise your relative from the dead, perhaps? Likewise if you suspect that you have been raped, you don’t think that the first thing that you should do is make a report to the police? Something that is incredibly difficult and hugely under-reported at the time and very often crucial forensic evidence is loss due to the astonishing levels of trauma associated with it. And you are suggesting that people should be influenced into looking at other options first. And there are plenty of other crimes that your list leaves out (Fraud, Deception, Domestic Violence, Threats to Kill) where the police are the best people to investigate or even to act as a defence for victims of crime. I accept that the police aren’t a perfect system, and there is a particular problem in the States and some other jurisdictions where militarisation and siege mentality have been about turning cops into soldiers instead of community representatives. But the solution isn’t “get rid of the police.”
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Jun 1, 2020 20:54
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I think there is a comma missing there, a last resort, (such as) where index crimes have been committed.
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Jun 1, 2020 20:55
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goddamnedtwisto posted:I started typing something up about this last night but couldn't quite get my meaning across (it's possible I actually posted it, as this isn't normally a barrier) that one of the biggest problems with modern police at least here and in the US is how little actual police work they get up to. They probably spend more time doing front-line social service work than catching criminals although they often deal with the former, as you say, by turning them into the latter - homelessness, for example, should never be a police matter (of course it just shouldn't be a matter at all), but years of gutting social services (and society) have meant that they've been used as a temporary fix for just about all of society's ills. I also agree that we rely too much on police/law/courts because we've scrapped too much of the rest to even run, which has led to moving vast swathes of "we don't do this because it makes you kind of a dick if you do" into the realm of formal law rather than social contract. Policing isn't the best solution to everything, and some things such as as helping drug addiction or making sex work safer with healthcare based models, work far less well if Constable Savage is going to be clomping around in the background, because people won't turn up and then you're back to dealing with a hepatitis epidemic which you definitely can't control with batons. I think big state funded social services on the healthcare model can sometimes go badly wrong though, like psychiatrists creating a rigid social model of a 'healthy mind' and institutionalizing a bunch of people, so there always should be a wide variety of community oriented resolution initiatives too. We don't have an alternative to police and courts for the big serious crimes like murder, but for the little ones, the ones more like grievances, like alleged theft of chickens, or even some serious ones like domestic violence where the family are forced to choose between enduring abuse and their main breadwinner being banged up, there's good evidence that proper restorative justice with weight behind it and campaigns to stop it happening in the first place work better than cops/courts/cages. The Question IRL posted:I’m sorry, are you saying that if someone in your family is killed, instead of ringing the police you should look at all other possible avenues of things to do? Like call up a priest to see if he could raise your relative from the dead, perhaps? e: ^^ yes, that
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Jun 1, 2020 20:59
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Jose posted:i legit hope coronavirus kills a load of tories because this backfires horribly I think they're limiting the house to 50 members and making it a rump parliament.
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Jun 1, 2020 21:07
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he loving sucks so much. he could just say nothing https://twitter.com/EleniCourea/status/1267472664358195203?s=20
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Jun 1, 2020 21:07
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AutismVaccine posted:Thats the most tinfoily thing i read here for a while. https://twitter.com/SaimaMohsin/status/1267505203600863232?s=20
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Jun 1, 2020 21:09
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remember that time a bunch of cops tased their own race relations officer then after it was all sorted out they drove past him on his way home and made fun of him about it
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Jun 1, 2020 21:16
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Didn't they tase him twice on two separate occasions?
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Jun 1, 2020 21:19
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OwlFancier posted:Didn't they tase him twice on two separate occasions? For some reason I thought that too, but just googled it and apparently not. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/18/stunned-then-shocked-race-adviser-tasered-by-police-is-targeted-again
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Jun 1, 2020 21:23
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communism bitch posted:For some reason I thought that too, but just googled it and apparently not. I'm sure there's still time for them to do it again.
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Jun 1, 2020 21:26
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communism bitch posted:For some reason I thought that too, but just googled it and apparently not. Ah the second time was just harrassment, no taser involved, clearly they learned something.
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Jun 1, 2020 21:28
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beginning to suspect the british ruling class are all nonces or something??quote:Coronavirus closes prep school attended by Boris Johnson  also, the bolded bit is a bit grim in the context of their rich tradition of paedophilia XMNN fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jun 1, 2020 |
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Jun 1, 2020 21:34
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OwlFancier posted:I currently have a nice smooth, straight, and de-knotted stick. And a severe case of wanker's cramp. If you don't want to deal with hammering metal get a rubber chair leg cap. Does the same thing. https://www.amazon.co.uk/sourcing-map-Protectors-Furniture-Covers/dp/B00UBUA1EE
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Jun 1, 2020 21:34
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