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Communist Thoughts posted:Churchill didn't do gently caress all did he? Wasn't his contribution to WW2 nicking food from India to keep Britain fed and making speeches? fdr and stalin thought he was an idiot and apparently used to mock him behind his back
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Jun 9, 2020 10:56
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i'm all for defunding police but i am a tad confused at calls for abolition. like that is never going to happen in a capitalist system but a lot of abolitionists aren't anti capitalists. very weird.
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Jun 9, 2020 17:28
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OwlFancier posted:It's not particularly weird in that police brutality is a very obvious problem and the solution is also pretty obvious, but tying it into a holistic worldview is slightly harder. yeah it's a lack of thought i guess, people not working thru the implications of what police are etc
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Jun 9, 2020 17:35
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Guavanaut posted:That's like claiming that Trump making fun of liberals and socialists making fun of liberals are the same thing, but with nationalism. its questionable whether you can tbh, and yeah i don't think we actually have universal healthcare given the disproportionate impact covid alone has had on poor and minority communities in the uk and the weird way NHS funding is distributed by region. even if we say we do actually have universal healthcare, why on earth would e.g. the city of london let you get rid of their attack dogs at all, ever.
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Jun 9, 2020 20:04
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Guavanaut posted:It was universal when it was introduced in a similar way to how suffrage was universal, not ideal and funded by colonialism but a poo poo ton better than what came before. yeah but then if its funded by colonialism, people who do not get to benefit from the health service they are funding, its by definition not universal healthcare. but yeah to the police point, as long as you have a ruling class you will have police. and if somehow you did abolish the police under capitalism then capital would just use its wealth to create its own privatised police forces. whereas i think you have more traction right now moving a lot of what they do to health and social care providers and such.
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Jun 9, 2020 20:14
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not for nothing but we are also supporting a genocide in yemen with the intelligence and strategic support we lend saudi arabia. UK special forces train child soldiers there. our operations also enable a thriving human trafficking industry, which includes children being stolen from their families - often by jihadi groups we are arming - and sold into sexual slavery around the world. the blood money all flows back into the City and means london has become effectively a gigantic washing machine for dirty cash made off the rape, torture and murder of people in the global south. i would like to see the conversation emphasise that our crimes are not historical, that more than statues need to be torn down and dismantled here.
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Jun 9, 2020 21:11
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goddamnedtwisto posted:"become"? The City has been this since at least the 16th century. yeah ofc. it's important to use this moment to broaden the conversation to uk economics and our contemporary role as an imperial power. i think generally the mainstream british left is quite bad at talking about our foreign policy, but we still very much profit from modern slavery, we just have a few more middlemen and a bit more plausible deniability.
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Jun 9, 2020 21:33
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Fair point. I suppose it gets subsumed into the general anticapitalist stance, but we definitely need to be a lot better about highlighting the way in which both the City and the UK government helps the literal worst people on Earth wash the blood off their money. This is where liberals could actually prove their alleged worth because it should be right in their wheelhouse, but HSBC put a rainbow in their Twitter handle and had an advert with Richard Ayoade that made gammons mad and so that's them safe. this is it. think how hard it is to get people to see why the colston statue had to fall. now try explaining that abolition didn't really happen, we just keep the slaves out of public view and hide the paper trail connecting us to the exploitation of the global south. then explaining the complex interplay of the legal and illegal economies. hopefully the longer this convo goes on the better the chances of that kind of reckoning i guess.
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Jun 9, 2020 21:56
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Drone_Fragger posted:And this is the entire reason why labour is a pile of poo poo, and the voting system in this country is a pile of poo poo. Best we can do is vote green before starmer decides he's going to run with "sell your parents house to the government while they're still living in it to get onto the housing ladder yourself!" or instead of voting green just don't vote. i'm almost certainly never voting again. who knows the white uk left might end up talking about literally anything besides the labour party.
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Jun 10, 2020 08:20
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kingturnip posted:A) utterly unrelated to their day-to-day lives; and lots of foreign policy doesn't really impact your day to day life but idk how you can consider yourself on the left and not be informed about it
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Jun 11, 2020 14:32
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my lib colleague has bought white fragility and asked me if i read it and what i thought. i didn't have the heart to tell her all that kind of poo poo is embarrassing garbage and totally useless. i think that's why this kind of weirdo cultist stuff spreads, because its difficult to be mean to your lib friend when they mean well.
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Jun 11, 2020 15:37
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that sun front page is so incredibly hosed up
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Jun 12, 2020 10:14
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stev posted:Which one? The JKR one? yeah, i don't know why i'm surprised they would go there. having had friends who survived domestic violence that one has really got to me today.
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Jun 12, 2020 10:23
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Ash Crimson posted:Domestic violence victim or not she's still a bad person seems irrelevant really to whether tabloid newspapers should be allowed to run an "exclusive interview!" with unrepentant woman beaters.
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Jun 12, 2020 10:30
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Comrade Fakename posted:The Sun is some kind of bonkers mind game where we all hate JKR but now we have to sympathise with her. you don't have to sympathise with her but you do have to sympathise with the millions of other abused women in this country who will see that headline and realise an incredibly dangerous media outlet has made their trauma fair game to go after in pursuit of sales. it's another shameful day in the long slow decline of this country.
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Jun 12, 2020 10:37
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sorry but what does any of this have to do with the sun splashing an interview with her abuser on the front page to eek out some sales. like are we seriously edging up to critical support for the sun because it traumatised someone we don't like. wth. the issue is what the tabloid press have deemed fair game here, not whether jrk is a bad person so maybe deserves it. hopefully you were consistent and dismissed their blood and soil coverage of shamima begum because begum has done war crimes and poo poo so therefore we don't have to lend her any empathy or support.
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Jun 12, 2020 11:27
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just in a perpetual state of feeling disgusted but unsurprised living in this country.
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Jun 13, 2020 21:01
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i can't think of any reason you would mention them "raising their arms" given you've already said it's a protest, so the reader assumed that kind of gesture is a given. which suggests to me that they accurately described them as seig heiling and then some line editor got in there and switched it out. really has to be emphasised that the brain rot has spread far and wide and the uks fascist underground has sympathisers and supporters everywhere. edit: sorry i meant this wrt the bbc article gh0stpinballa fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jun 13, 2020 |
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Jun 13, 2020 21:21
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Jose posted:the loving state of kier starmer feel better by the day about my promise to myself to never voter for this party again
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Jun 14, 2020 12:49
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Borrovan posted:Yeah the solution isn't to let Labour lose, it's to build our movement outside of the party and drag the cunts to the left by physical force i truly don't understand why people keep trying this and then, when it fails, decide the only solution is to try it again. corbyn was as good as you were gonna get and they massacred him. they'll do it again to whoever else you put in there. labour is a dead end. gh0stpinballa fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Jun 16, 2020 |
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Jun 16, 2020 05:47
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Jedit posted:Corbyn was "massacred" because he didn't want to divide the party and was too nice. The next left wing Labour leader, should there be one, will have learned that they cannot afford to be nice. there won't be a next one. and most of the people who took your subs and threw two elections are still in place. you might as well cancel your membership and give the money to something worthwhile tbh.
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Jun 16, 2020 10:19
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seeing sunny hundal getting rightly owned for his dreadful bolivia analysis. it's very indicative of the media class how none of them were persuaded it was a coup by the hours of footage of soldiers forcing MAS reps to sign resignation letters at gunpoint, no no, it just took the NYT and OAS to admit as much. as always, long after there's any chance of the ousted government returning.
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Jun 18, 2020 12:49
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Jose posted:honestly can't tell if the examples in this thread are parodies or not because the real thing have been so bad i have a feeling they're settling into a comfortable permanent opposition role. i don't think they truly care enough to wanna win an election. mostly they're concerned with internal stability and shoring up careers now.
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Jun 18, 2020 12:56
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one thing that continues to baffle me is how the man who wrote the enemy within completely failed to anticipate the ferocity of the british state's counter insurgency strategy against the corbyn labour party.
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Jun 20, 2020 01:40
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:I don't know if it's a lost filling or not. I can poke up into the void where tooth used to be and there's no pain, tapping on the tooth induces some pain, eating some crisps earlier it felt like I'd been smacked full force in the side of the face with a baseball bat. But there's no pain now, but I know that there's *something* wrong and it needs to be fixed take it from me pal - get that tooth pulled asap
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Jun 20, 2020 17:57
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quote:They are therefore incapable of asserting their class interest in their own name, whether through a parliament or a convention. They cannot represent themselves, they must be represented. Their representative must at the same time appear as their master, as an authority over them, an unlimited governmental power which protects them from the other classes and sends them rain and sunshine from above. The political influence of the small-holding peasants, therefore, finds its final expression in the executive power which subordinates society to itself. when i see british right wingers popping off abt statues or asian women eating a lolly in a park or whatever, i always think of this passage. theyll feel empowered for as long as their masters are in government. if we don't find a way to marginalise and repress these morons there's no progress to be had tbh.
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Jun 21, 2020 12:51
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Jose posted:he kept going lol lol oh my
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Jun 21, 2020 16:12
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it seems to me that when you have yet another terrorist attack where it turns out the guy was known to the intelligence services, but a police investigation was shut down "relatively quickly", we should start asking some serious questions about what exactly we are pissing away tens of millions of pounds in security and defence spending on. because our current counter terrorism policy seems completely unsound and not at all up to the job.
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Jun 22, 2020 16:41
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Desiderata posted:Though if that happened in either direction in his case is not reported. it seems self-evident he was a contra, and my hunch is MI6 intended for him to get killed or otherwise remain in libya, and he somehow found his way back to the UK. it's pretty standard to use syria, libya, etc as a way to "drain the poison", just let these guys move over there to do jihad and hope like hell they don't come back. the manchester guy and much of his family seems to have had a much closer relationship with the spooks than your standard jihadi dipshit tho.
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Jun 22, 2020 16:45
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good podcast btw guys, caught the new ep this morning. nice to put some voices to usernames too.
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Jun 22, 2020 16:49
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OwlFancier posted:Unfortunatley if you ask that question I suspect a lot of the usual morons will respond with "obviously we need to be able to lock up anyone we like for however long we like and we need more cops and spies and also you have to record yourself constantly and send it to the government." yep. and given the spooks pray on people with mental health issues to use as informants/easy busts, which in turn help inflate dark budgets...3 deaths isn't that high a price from their POV. what a total sham of a country.
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Jun 22, 2020 16:53
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Julio Cruz posted:gh0stpinballa definitely did i did! hello all 👋
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Jun 24, 2020 22:52
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ah i think this is the other one like rhizzone isn't it, both of them came from LF? people told me about the history.
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Jun 24, 2020 22:54
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forkboy84 posted:It's a more recent one, an offshoot of CSPAM initially but seems to be gaining traction across the board. ah okay. might join, see how it goes.
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Jun 24, 2020 23:42
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i want to be on the podcast at some point it seems fun
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Jun 25, 2020 00:14
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Sanitary Naptime posted:Hit us up on the discord and such things could happen! aw cheers. i just followed you (@toast fam) but im not on discord. you got a link i will set up an account.
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Jun 25, 2020 01:31
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so the policy now seems to be, there are legitimate criticisms of israel to be made. but not by anyone who breathed within 1000 miles of the most notorious antisemite of our age, jeremy corbyn. and not about that. or that. or that. and especially not that.
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Jun 25, 2020 14:12
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even by the low standards of british political conversation the reaction to maxine peakes interview is absolutely stupid af.
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Jun 25, 2020 14:19
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please stop giving your money and time to this party
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Jun 25, 2020 18:19
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there's a worthwhile conversation to be had about how imperialist powers pool information and refine methods wrt the best way to pacify restive populations they are subjugating. and actually the israeli security forces are the junior partner in this mutual aid op, more influenced by western security orgs than influencing them. which is the key problem with peake's statement. however i don't want to rob the IDF or israeli government of their agency, this would be problematic.
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Jun 26, 2020 22:01
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