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Mat Cauthon posted:Did you read any of the posted resources? Even one? Why is the wage comparison is between a cop and Fire dept EMT and not a firefighter? Is it because a firefighter makes more than either? It’s hard to asses the validity of those links you posted as they don’t cite their sources in the most part - one does link to a study which was on racial breakdown of traffic stops, not the impact of training. look at countries where police training is more comprehensive and professionalised and their comparative levels of police shootings - I think we all know what we’ll find. If you don’t want racist white police how are you going to do it without making more non-white non-racist people WANT to be police because at the minute it doesn’t seem like a large section of society want to step forward and police their communities better than they are being. Starting again from scratch _might_ be the best approach but if it’s not achievable (and it’s very likely not) then you have to find another solution that is. That’s why I think it’s counter productive to poo poo on anything that doesn’t get everything you want as fast as you want. Like yes, it may be insufficient, but it’s still better so what about getting there as start and then taking another step? Rapulum_Dei fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Jun 5, 2020 |
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Jun 5, 2020 14:14
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How does that in any way relate to my post?
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Jun 5, 2020 14:27
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if you think that clip shows why police officers don’t need to be more professional I don’t know what to tell you I did wonder after reading through some of the links posted has there ever been a case where the abolushionist approach has been taken. Post apartheid South Africa came to mind https://www.csvr.org.za/docs/policing/policereformandsouth.pdf
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Jun 5, 2020 14:42
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Yuzenn posted:https://twitter.com/samswey/status/1180655701271732224 That’s what he is saying but what is studies or data he basing that on? And it seems to be referring to USA only, so it’s fair to say you have to change WHAT is being taught, not how well. If your course is called ‘beating prisoners without leaving marks 101’ or ‘fundamentals of old man shoving’ its not really going to help.
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Jun 5, 2020 14:47
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Cpt_Obvious posted:They were professionally lined into a group, the old man was very professionally pushed to the ground, and they very professionally walked right over his bleeding skull. That clip is the very definition of professionalism. I got the point you’re making, I just think you’re wrong. Hope that helps. "You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means" Inigo Montoya Rapulum_Dei fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Jun 5, 2020 |
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Jun 5, 2020 14:50
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That’d be good. I mean ‘implicit bias training’ is a crock of poo poo, that’s just teaching people to internalise their racism and use language that masks it. ‘His demeanour was evasive and his appearance incongruous to the surrounding context’ instead of ‘This is a nice neighbourhood, what’s that black guy doing here?’
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Jun 5, 2020 16:10
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Main Paineframe posted:
You’re advocating change by genocide and what amounts to civil war. Fair enough, I don’t think you’ll win though and if you do you’ll have a slightly different armed and angry group of people who think they know what’s best and can tell you what to do. If your honest belief is that any kind of police is unacceptable you should really be in the civil war & revolution discussion, not reform discussion. Iceland, Ireland, Norway ( who all have them in their cars) and the UK (excluding NI who are all armed) are the only European countries that don’t have all armed police forces so you’re just objectively wrong on that.
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Jun 5, 2020 17:14
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Servetus posted:Cops are not an ethnicity or a religion. Thankyou for that irrelevant fact. Are you implying that’s acceptable to “ bulldoze the pigpens, fill in the mud pits” because cops _chose_ to be part of that group? Like immigrants? genocide noun /ˈdʒenəsaɪd/ /ˈdʒenəsaɪd/ [uncountable, countable] the murder of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or race Rapulum_Dei fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Jun 5, 2020 |
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Jun 5, 2020 17:28
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Interesting read. Theres an assumptionby the guest that funding is EITHER for policing OR for communities. I agree with the host quote:forget Rahm’s $100 million police academy and cutting schools. You have, you know, we, we passed a defense budget for $719 billion dollars. The increase alone over two years ago was $82 billion even adjusting for inflation. So that’s an increase, the budget increase alone of $82 billion could have paid for public school for every public college kid in the country, which is a total of $70 billion and we have $12 billion leftover to pay off everyone’s ATM surcharges. Spending so much on a military and leaving health, eduction, infrastucture and policing the scraps is the problem here.
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Jun 5, 2020 19:32
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Noise complaints are dealt with by cops in my city too. A lot of times the agencies who’s job it is to deal with things like noise, animal control, child welfare know that they’re going to be met with hostility and either abdicate their responsibility or bring the cops with them automatically increasing tension. UnknownTarget posted:Blaziken386 posted this in another thread: All those things are potentially positive but will need significant money and people. But if you took the entire police budget and used it for social workers alone it probably still wouldn’t be enough. I think the calls to defund the police are just to punish them. The idea that that’s the only place the money can be found for social development is just back-rationalising. If an actually fair, working, progressive tax system is out of reach then divert money from the military budget to all of those new agencies listed above. And if you think both those options are fantasy what are the chances of any of desperately needed changes to law enforcement taking place let alone radical ‘abolition’
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Jun 7, 2020 08:09
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Crumbskull posted:Cool, you want to abolish the police and you can imagine a scenario where local democracy becomes genocide. Established. Can you think of any examples where local communities enforce their own rules and punishments? Because I can.
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Jun 7, 2020 08:57
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Saagonsa posted:I'm in favor of replacing the police, but "cops don't currently deal with noise complaints" is a loving insane thing to post. My brother was setting off homemade firecrackers in my backyard a few years ago and then an hour later a county cop showed up to yell as us for it. So yeah, there are absolutely places where they do that (but they shouldn't) COVID-19 posted:I think addressing the root causes of systemic issues would go a lot further than simply dealing with the outcomes of those societal problems. For instance, instead of having a uniformed agency deal with homeless people having psychotic episodes in a public area, we should give people homes and free psychiatric help. Rapulum_Dei fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Jun 7, 2020 |
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Jun 7, 2020 09:04
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So somebody was posting links suggesting that having no police led to a reduction in crime;quote:While Chicago was roiled by another day of protests and looting in the wake of George Floyd’s murder, 18 people were killed Sunday, May 31, making it the single most violent day in Chicago in six decades, according to the University of Chicago Crime Lab. The lab’s data doesn’t go back further than 1961. https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2020/6/8/21281998/chicago-violence-murder-history-homicide-police-crime
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Jun 9, 2020 20:13
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