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I've been re-reading the experience of the town of Cheran in Mexico. Its in a state that has high rates of cartel violence even compared to many other Mexican states, the people there were sick of the murders, threats and the rampant deforestation by the cartels illegal logging activities. The logging got so severe it threatened the town's water supply, so in 2011 they rose up and drove out the police and politicians that had been collaborating with the cartels. For nine years they've experienced an almost total reduction in crime, and have managed to resist attempts by the state and the Knights Templar cartel to take back control. They've even managed to protect and replant much of the forests. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37612083 Quite inspiring. enki42 posted:I feel like there's a circular argument with the abolitionists that I don't get. Please help me understand exactly how I'm misrepresenting the abolitionist argument, because I'm sure I am, but I don't know how else to interpret it. The problem here is that it is ahistorical. Lynchings and other forms of mob violence against minorities were usually done with the support of one or more forms of institutional power including elements of the police. And a major stumbling block to minorities in those communities taking steps to defend themselves was the intervention of the police. Negroes with Guns by Robert F. Williams is excellent example. The police stood by and allowed vicious acts of open violence against its black residents for years, squad cars showed up to support Klan rallies and they only mobilised to intervene when the black community had successfully armed itself and started organising defence squads. At which point the local police spread lies that there was communist insurrection and appealed to state and federal forces for support in raiding and disarming them. This isn't unique to the US either, in Bradford the Asian community was targeted viciously by National Front and other racists, they were attacked and even murdered, but the police were noticeably sluggish, until the Asian youth of Bradford started fighting back, at which point the police suddenly launched a series of crackdowns and raids, the victims of which were overwhelmingly Asian youths identified as being community defenders. In your obviously rigged scenario, since the police are gone while this doesn't magically solve bigotry and tensions it does remove the main obstacle to minority groups organising and building their own networks of defence. So yes, racial violence can still occur, but the bigots would have to lash out knowing the powerful arms of the state won't step in to save them and they're now fighting against groups that are capable of fighting back.
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Jun 4, 2020 18:03
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enki42 posted:I think where I might be struggling is that, in my mind, even if the "formal" institutional power structures are eradicated, it seems like informal power structures will still exist, and I can't see any particular reason to assume that those will be more egalitarian than the formal ones. Well then good news, reading the rest of my comment beyond the point you quoted addressed just this very thing with examples.
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Jun 4, 2020 20:06
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fatherboxx posted:Before this thread eats itself because of one reason or another... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wko0OnpxDX0 https://www.sproutdistro.com/catalog/zines/organizing/world-without-police/ Also the stuff I posted about Cheran in Mexico.
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Jun 5, 2020 03:50
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Haven't caught up on the thread yet, but I've been reading through this account from an ex police officer. Confessions of a Former Bastard Cop https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759 Edit: turned the page and seen its already been posted. My bad, worth reading though if you missed it first time. Especially the part on training and how the police department usually works in lockstep with the city government and is rarely totally rogue. Baka-nin fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Jun 11, 2020 |
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Jun 11, 2020 08:40
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Recently heard that in Nigeria the massive anti police brutality protests forced the government to abolish its infamous SARS units. But like in many other cases "abolish" has a different meaning when politicians say it. https://twitter.com/jackieaina/status/1315349545241333760?s=19
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Oct 12, 2020 15:34
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In the UK there's a saying "there is no such thing as a fascist march, only police marches" it comes from Albert Meltzer "I moved in the early Seventies to a Greenwich council flat, and was there when a widely-advertised fascist march took place, passing a few streets away in Lewisham which had a high proportion of Black residents, As usual, it was more a police demonstration guarding bussed-in fascists marching between their lines."
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Jan 7, 2021 03:05
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