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There's some shameful resistance to positive change up in here, lotta disappointment for real. gently caress you for demanding to be able to say words you think you should be free to say when other people are seriously hurt by it tbh Your willful lack of effort in consideration of others is not more important than the comfort and liberty of those others
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Jun 14, 2020 15:46
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Team America: Language Police
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Jun 14, 2020 15:53
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stevobob posted:There's some shameful resistance to positive change up in here, lotta disappointment for real. gently caress you for demanding to be able to say words you think you should be free to say when other people are seriously hurt by it tbh someone redtext this on me
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Jun 14, 2020 16:01
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10 print "It should depend on context" 20 print "Newcomers can't know the context" 30 goto 10 If I can manage to stop saying oval office on the forums then you lot can as well. Nobody's coming into your home and telling you how to be. You're choosing to post on a website where the vast majority of people feel it's inappropriate. Choose to use another word for the sake of other people. Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Jun 14, 2020 |
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Jun 14, 2020 16:37
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context so hard, how do i context
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Jun 14, 2020 17:05
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So people's defense of using that word is about heritage of their language, not hate of women?
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Jun 14, 2020 17:10
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CainFortea posted:So people's defense of using that word is about heritage of their language, not hate of women? No the defense is that in its general use outside of the Puritan States of America it is not a misogynistic word at least not any more so than a host of similar words which are curiously not the subject of bans
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Jun 14, 2020 17:14
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fridge corn posted:No the defense is that in its general use outside of the Puritan States of America it is not a misogynistic word at least not any more so than a host of similar words which are curiously not the subject of bans How is that different than what I said?
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Jun 14, 2020 17:15
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uh oh the seppos are awake
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Jun 14, 2020 17:30
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CainFortea posted:How is that different than what I said? Been thinking a bit before formulating a response to include more of what people have said here, but I will say that poo poo like this (or on the other side just being edgy and calling people cunts when we're having the debate) isn't particularly helpful. As I said before, the argument that we not use it in the general areas to avoid scaring people off is a fair one, but any acceptance of the meaning and use of the word by one group must also extend to understanding that there are other groups for which that is also true. The "it's misogynistic and that's the end of it" approach is incorrect and the wrong way to tackle this. Elmnt80 posted:I've spent the last 4+ years in retail management where I've had managers above me on my rear end for being too kind in a position of authority. To say its had an effect on how I handle authority positions is understating it a bit. I can generally get people to do what's needed by asking them to and explaining why. I have the capacity to enforce my will on others, but I very rarely need to exercise it. When people refuse to do what I'm asking, there's usually a reason I need to dig into, and often it stops me making a bad call. Elmnt80 posted:And I do hope that you all realize that if these positions were reversed and it was americans saying something that our aussie/uk posters found sexist/racist/etc, I'd being figuring out how to make it gently caress off out of this forum. As I've said, I want this to be a place that ANYONE can post about their unnatual urge to shove a big block into an opel gt or whatever other automotive bullshit makes them happy. Part of that to me is having us think about what we post and how it extends beyond our own cultures. I do already moderate my language here, as do others - the word Jap, for instance, genuinely is used as a contraction for Japanese here, and does not have the racist connotations it does in the states when applied in forms like "man, Jap stuff goes together like Lego, doesn't it?". Hell, some of the biggest Japanese car shows here are called Japfest, and there is absolutely zero problem with this. No one would consider this to be racist, and the American catch-all "asian" sounds like nonsense to us. That's like an entire loving continent, and to us "asian" is Indian/Pakistani. Incidentally, "Paki" is most definitely not an acceptable contraction, and for similar reasons to Jap being unacceptable to American ears - historic use in a racist context. tithin posted:But I don't think that this is a conversation where you're actively seeking feedback, I think this is just you telling people how things are going to be so take my opinion in the spirit that it's offered. CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:TBH there was something a couple of weeks ago that really took me aback as it was somethign you would absolutly get decked for saying it here but yet wasnt remarked on by anyone else? I just kinda figured it's use elsewhere wasn't as vicious as it is here. But then, it appears Rolf was allowed to get away with other poo poo, so who knows. ili posted:I honestly find american cultural imperialism offensive. BurgerQuest posted:uh oh the seppos are awake
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Jun 14, 2020 18:03
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Ah gently caress youve confused me for someone who gives a rats arse how these dumb cunts moderate the forums. Oops.
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Jun 14, 2020 18:10
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BurgerQuest posted:Ah gently caress youve confused me for someone who gives a rats arse how these dumb cunts moderate the forums. Oops. For someone who doesn't care you sure are yapping your mouth a lot.
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Jun 14, 2020 18:23
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InitialDave posted:I can't help but feel that the lack of reaction to this (it really is a term I've not heard in a long time) more reflects the Americans not being aware of it than it being considered ok by them. Not gonna stop you, but I'm not sure it's helping. it's mostly that we know it's a bunch of idiots trying to get a rise out of people so they can go "teehee told u all stupid Americans are overly sensitive just look!!!"
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Jun 14, 2020 18:23
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CainFortea posted:So people's defense of using that word is about heritage of their language, not hate of women? poo poo, NASCAR figured out when it was time to stop being offensive, why is this so hard for everyone else?
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Jun 14, 2020 20:41
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I dunno I just feel like there is a false equivalency at play between 150 year old symbol of a racist people and a word that is in common use a that went to a high court 3 years ago and was deemed inoffensive enough that I can wear a sandwich board in public and not be fined
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Jun 14, 2020 20:57
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InitialDave posted:I have a manager like that, guess what word can be guaranteed to come up when asking people for their opinion of his attitude and behaviour? I never said it was a good style, just that its been drilled into my head. When I started I generally had the second style like you mention, then got criticized by my boss for being soft. It was lovely. vOv
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Jun 14, 2020 21:19
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It's also worth drawing a distinction between the setting of a rule and the enforcement of it. Having a firm written-down rule with clear consequences is necessary, not for people who will react appropriately to being asked, but for the people who won't. There's room for asking nicely when someone steps over the line, but there has to be a clear line to step over.
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Jun 14, 2020 21:24
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There really is some weird rear end tangents being used to justify using a word that are branching into the ridiculous. And this really isnt a hill worth dying on but yet.....
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Jun 14, 2020 22:11
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I'd say it's more ridiculous to liken someone to a confederate supporter for using a word that, from an Australian context, has been described in a NSW district court appeal as: As a matter of law, the impugned word is not necessarily offensive, even when used in a public place: Dalton at 555. The impugned word is often used as a derogatory term to describe a person of any gender. In this use, it is best described as an expletive, rather than as an intensive or it being used for its literal significance. And: The impugned word is now more prevalent in everyday language than it has previously been. It is commonplace in movies and television entertainment, although it is not without restriction in that context. The impugned word is of ancient English origin and featured in Shakespeare’s Hamlet. The prevalence of the impugned word in Australian language is evidence that it is considered less offensive in Australia than other English speaking countries, such as the United States. However, that also appears to be changing as is evidenced from the increase in American entertainment content featuring the impugned word. References to the impugned word are often included in print media, usually a reference to a direct quote with the “u” or the “un” removed. This treatment of the word does little to alleviate the meaning to be conveyed and is directed more at decorum than avoiding offence that may be caused by the publication of the impugned word.
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Jun 14, 2020 22:32
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:it's mostly that we know it's a bunch of idiots trying to get a rise out of people so they can go "teehee told u all stupid Americans are overly sensitive just look!!!" It's almost as if you seppos trying to censor a word specifically because of how we use it would, I dunno, raise our ire somewhat? Elmnt80 posted:The one exception to this rule will be if we wind up with a thread dedicated to specifically Australian cars/things or project threads where the op is Australian and makes note of it in their op. I, for one, look forward to the AI Gulags
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Jun 14, 2020 22:51
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I can post pictures of kangaroos if it'll make you feel more like home.
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Jun 14, 2020 23:02
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It's unfortunate that the content of this forum will now be ruined because, let's admit it, the use of these words are the only thing that made anything worth reading. We have finally discovered what makes AI such a good place, only to remove it 
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Jun 14, 2020 23:51
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I have a media censoring question, I always remember watching WWF back in the day and they'd censor the word rear end but wrestlers could say bitch... What was up with that? I've also just watched a Danny Brown interview and gently caress is censored but the n word is not. I DON'T GET IT.
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Jun 15, 2020 00:02
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DumbparameciuM posted:It's almost as if you seppos trying to censor a word specifically because of how we use it would, I dunno, raise our ire somewhat? sorry you're super triggered about people not wanting you to use a word that they think is offensive
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Jun 15, 2020 00:20
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What's the mod position on spastic?
simplefish fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Jun 15, 2020 |
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Jun 15, 2020 00:39
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Elmnt80 posted:The one exception to this rule will be if we wind up with a thread dedicated to specifically Australian cars/things or project threads where the op is Australian and makes note of it in their op. I actually don't mind this, and having islands of Aussieness is a funny concept. It is however, tacit acceptance that it isn't the gendered nature of the word, it is the prudish nature of the mods and website as a whole. Which is ok, I'm a fan of more effort posting. Cock ,oval office , dick, pussy, tits are all in the same ballpark. I would be happier with a more general "gendered coarse language" for clarity rather than a singular word ban with contextual exceptions
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Jun 15, 2020 00:43
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simplefish posted:What's the mod position on spastic? Not really a fan, but also can't remember the last time I saw anyone use it. This may be piss poor memory on my part though.
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Jun 15, 2020 00:50
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Jestery posted:Cock ,oval office , dick, pussy, tits are all in the same ballpark. I would be happier with a more general "gendered coarse language" for clarity rather than a singular word ban with contextual exceptions I like using “tits” as a stand in for “extremely good,” but I think this is a fine rule and acknowledge that while convenient and evocative, “tits” is still gendered and objectifying and can easily strike it from my vocabulary IRL and here.
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Jun 15, 2020 01:01
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Elmnt80 posted:Not really a fan, but also can't remember the last time I saw anyone use it. This may be piss poor memory on my part though. It's in that annoying pit of previously a medical definition. Fwiw I work in special ed and have a tic disorder myself and I wouldn't abide by some one describing the kids I work is as spastic. But if someone described something mechanical that was jerking around in an uncontrolled manner Infront of me I could only say "yeah I guess that is what I do"
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Jun 15, 2020 01:05
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quote:6. Hate Speech I've reworded it to include other countries and be phrased as a request. I'd say you can resume whatever you were posting about, but maybe be nicer to each other than that.
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Jun 15, 2020 01:11
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Jestery posted:I actually don't mind this, and having islands of Aussieness is a funny concept. Frankly we should isolate them in their own little corner of the
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Jun 15, 2020 03:04
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I'm just a dumb ol' my way or the highway puritan American so keep that in mind while I clutch my pearls and cancel my culture but goddamn am I quite surprised at people getting all bent out of shape at being asked to use a different word. Just use a different word, it isn't hard? Is it? I get the "wow stop banning things that doesn't work instead treat context" argument but still, you're being asked to use a different word. I can't really understand how that is the same as existing in Australia with your """mates"""" and having a flowing conversation in real time and gotta be all up on your toes about wording but you are posting on something awful dot com. It's text in a box that your dumb rear end should be previewing to make sure whatever garbage you're going to unleash at least looks right. Use that time to go "maybe I can use my vast non-american intellect to come up with an exciting new word and be cool on the internet instead of using the same crutch as always" and be creative maybe. Give it a shot and wow you might surprise yourself in fun and exciting ways. Automotive Insanity isn't the USA but it sure as poo poo isn't Australia or England or whatever other country you want to derive your e-culture from.
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Jun 15, 2020 05:00
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Jestery posted:It is however, tacit acceptance that it isn't the gendered nature of the word, it is the prudish nature of the mods and website as a whole. Which is ok, I'm a fan of more effort posting. I feel like there's two main reasons not to say it. The first is that it's an incredibly insulting thing to call a woman in some parts of the world, and I think we all agree not to use it in this way. This is complicated by being at least mildly shocking or off-putting to see it in other contexts if you're from the USA. The second is that using a word that refers to women and their anatomy to mean "bad" isn't a very feminist/progressive tack, as it associates femininity with whatever bad thing. This association holds even if you're not using it to attack a woman. It's like how people (myself included, unfortunately) used to use "f-gg-t" to mean "person I don't like" 15 years ago. It's not being used to refer to gay people, so it's OK, right? Well, no. It's using a word that is a pejorative term for a disadvantaged group to just mean "bad," and anyone who's had the word hurled at them in anger before will bristle at its use in any context. We don't say this anymore, regardless of context, so why hold onto the c-word so tightly? Even if you ignore the American baggage that comes with it, it still carries some negative gender-based connotations.
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Jun 15, 2020 05:14
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KakerMix posted:I'm just a dumb ol' my way or the highway puritan American so keep that in mind while I clutch my pearls and cancel my culture but goddamn am I quite surprised at people getting all bent out of shape at being asked to use a different word. Just use a different word, it isn't hard? Is it? Spot on. The amount of people getting mad here is quite astounding to be honest.
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Jun 15, 2020 06:34
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KakerMix posted:Automotive Insanity isn't the USA but it sure as poo poo isn't Australia or England or whatever other country you want to derive your e-culture from. It's not the USA, but every loving time all over the net it's the loving americans who get offended at other countries doing something they don't understand and then crusading to uplift the ignorant savages so they conform to american standards, as american standards are the only possible normal baseline of what's acceptable, and if you don't accept this you're wrong and bad and a misogynist and probably use the metric system. Real tiresome to constantly have americans telling me I'm in the wrong for how I spell colour, or talking about christmas in summer, or that I hate all women because I said I had a oval office of a day.
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Jun 15, 2020 06:51
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Hey don't use these words. IT'S loving AMERICANS ON A CRUSADE AGAINST THE REST OF THE WORLD GETTING TRIGGERED. I WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE AGAIN WITHOUT USING THESE WORDS
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Jun 15, 2020 07:06
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Raluek posted:I feel like there's two main reasons not to say it. Thanks for kramering into the thread to post this long as post making the same loving argument that's been debunked over 9000 times now
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Jun 15, 2020 07:07
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It's quite amusing that it's the americans moralising at us when they're the only ones who actually use oval office as a misogynistic slur
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Jun 15, 2020 07:11
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Minnesota Mixup posted:Spot on. The amount of people getting mad here is quite astounding to be honest. I'm not anti the ban, like in the cspam trump thread banned retard and the quality of posting skyrocketed, it breeds creativity. Australian cultural language even has rhyming slang for exactly this,"Dropkick" is used in polite company. Like it's so incredibly linked with Aussie culture, it's used by our internal state advertising agencies , My mother will use it to describe a particularly snide politician ,we see it in our media and on protest signs. I just think that anything other than a blanket gendered coarse language is an unwelcome value judgement and just American exceptionalism.
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Jun 15, 2020 07:17
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Jestery posted:I'm not anti the ban, like in the cspam trump thread banned retard and the quality of posting skyrocketed, it breeds creativity. Australian cultural language even has rhyming slang for exactly this,"Dropkick" is used in polite company. It's an international community and I would hope that if there was a word that was considered extremely offensive there for example we would not want people posting it all over the place. It's nothing to do with american exceptionalism (we have none) but with being considerate of the broader community. It's not a hard thing to not type and makes the forums an easier to digest place while having zero impact on the quality of the content.
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Jun 15, 2020 07:19
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