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Hollismason posted:Herschell Gordon Lewis Monster A Go-Go is 1) Really, really loving bad and 2) Only partially directed by HGL. I'd rather sub in something like Color Me Blood Red, The Gruesome Twosome or even Blood Feast 2. Neo Rasa posted:BRIAN YUZNA Yuzna: Add The Dentist and Faust: Love of the Damned Jackson: It'd be a technicality but I'm wondering if we might want to include Meet the Feebles, if only for a complete survey of his early work. Egbert Souse posted:John Landis I'd toss in Thriller as well. gey muckle mowser posted:Jean Rollin This is just personal preference, but I'd really like to get Night of the Hunted in here. Kangra posted:Alfred Hitchcock We're gonna need to do some strong deliberating on what counts for Hitchcock. Like, Vertigo has fakeout supernatural themes but not sure that it ever leaps into horror territory. Rebecca I can see a little more belonging to a legacy of gothic horror, though Shadow of a Doubt more firmly lies as film noir. I think we could safely put Frenzy here, and I'd wonder about The Lodger. We were also debating in the last thread about Rear Window, which feels slightly more horror adjacent. Hitchcock belongs in this tournament, I think deciding which of his movies are horror-adjacent enough to qualify (with Psycho and The Birds as the two firm horror entries) will need to be hashed out more. Regardless, his entire body of work is so influential on the genre he deserves to compete.
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Jun 9, 2020 15:03
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David Lynch The Grandmother Eraserhead Lost Highway Mulholland Drive Inland Empire Twin Peaks (Including Fire Walk with Me and The Return) Tim Burton Beetlejuice Mars Attacks! Sleepy Hollow Corpse Bride Dark Shadows Frankenweenie Tod Browning The Unknown West of Zanzibar Dracula Freaks Mark of the Vampire The Devil-Doll BONUS: London After Midnight (lost, reconstructed in a 45 minute version with stills) Ed Wood Bride of the Monster Night of the Ghouls Plan 9 From Outer Space Necromania Don Coscarelli Phantasm Phantasm II Bubba Ho-Tep Incident On and Off a Mountain Road John Dies at the End (Survival Quest or Phantasm III) Jack Arnold It Came From Outer Space Creature from the Black Lagoon Revenge of the Creature Tarantula! Monster on the Campus (Debatable: The Incredible Shrinking Man) Brian De Palma Sisters Phantom of the Paradise Carrie The Fury Dressed to Kill The Black Dahlia Neil Jordan The Company of Wolves Interview with the Vampire Byzantium Greta Mary Lambert Pet Sematary Pet Sematary Two Halloweentown II: Kalabar's Revenge Urban Legends: Bloody Mary The Attic Herbert L. Strock Gog I Was a Teenage Frankenstein Blood of Dracula How to Make a Monster The Devil's Messenger The Crawling Hand
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Jun 9, 2020 15:27
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Shrecknet posted:Also moved Landis to the full-size bracket by adding Twilight Zone and Thriller. Removed Antonia Bird and Charles Laughton, sorry they can't just get one movie over and over the whole tourney. Who is on the Jungle Minibracket currently?
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Jun 9, 2020 18:00
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Found the spreadsheet. Mini-Bracket Jennifer Kent The Babadook The Nightingale Joe Begos Bliss The Mind's Eye Almost Human (does VFW count as horror?) Ana Lily Amirpour A Girl Walks Home Alone at Night The Bad Batch TrixRabbi fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Jun 9, 2020 |
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Jun 9, 2020 18:04
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Feel like we should maybe allow a little more time and get some extra submissions and then whittle it down by executive committee or through ranked choice cutoff. Like, no offense to some of these submissions, but it would be lame to include some pretty forgettable names only to realize we left off an underrated heavyweight or two.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:10
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A few big names missing from the spreadsheet - Eli Roth - Charles Band - Jen and Sylvia Soska - Lucio Fulci (!!! this would be a massive omission) - Adam Wingard - Jesus Franco (Another huge one) - Bruno Mattei - Jacques Tourneur - Ishiro Honda
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Jun 9, 2020 19:17
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I feel like we can't have this tournament without Fulci, Franco, Roth and Tourneur. Ishiro Honda feels like he represents a whole other realm of the genre that's mostly missing here, Adam Wingard is a recent up and comer who deserves to duke it out. Charles Band is kinda dumb but he's such an establishment in the genre it'd be tough to knock him off. Feel like we should pump these dudes into the ranked choice vote and then those who miss the cutoff just don't get in. edit: Polanski was nominated on this page but isn't on the sheet either. TrixRabbi fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jun 9, 2020 |
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Jun 9, 2020 19:20
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Eli Roth Cabin Fever Hostel Hostel: Part II The Green Inferno Knock Knock The House with a Clock in its Walls Jacques Tourneur Cat People I Walked with a Zombie The Leopard Man Night of the Demon The Comedy of Terrors City Under the Sea Ishiro Honda Godzilla Matango Mothra Frankenstein Conquers the World The Human Vapor Destroy All Monsters Adam Wingard You're Next V/H/S The Guest Home Sick Blair Witch Death Note
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Jun 9, 2020 19:29
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Shrecknet posted:Again, you're right, but Polanski is a loving pederast so gently caress him. Victor Bava doesn't get on here either. I'm totally fine with excluding the child molesters. Polanski's a heavyweight of the genre but also he raped a 13-year-old so I don't care if he competes or not.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:30
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My #1 seed choice is David Lynch.
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Jun 9, 2020 20:17
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Burkion posted:I'd swap Mothra and Destroy All Monsters for Rodan and Half Human, myself. Rodan is closer to a horror movie in the first half than Mothra is in any fashion, and Destroy All Monsters is a pure kaiju film while Half Human is an oft forgotten film that got re-edited in 1958 with John Caradine. These are good calls. I'm for it.
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Jun 9, 2020 21:13
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I'm fine with excluding Landis, though I also anticipate if he does get seeded he'll lose early on. However, agree that again goons are bringing up some important names (Robert Wise, Roy Ward Baker, Neil Marshall, Tom Holland) who deserve a shot at being seeded. I still feel like the best approach was to start with as big a slushpile of directors as possible and use ranked choice voting as the means of determining the Top 64. So someone like David R. Ellis can technically compete, but is unlikely to actually make the final bracket. And that may lead to some bigger names being left off, but only cause they lost out fair and square rather than "oops, we forgot."
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Jun 10, 2020 14:39
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Basebf555 posted:I think the best argument for disqualifying Landis is that we certainly want to disregard the Twilight Zone movie at least, I mean that's the film where he killed people. So if you just disqualify that film, that leaves him with only American Werewolf and we've already said that one film isn't enough to justify inclusion in the bracket. He does have Schlock, Innocent Blood and if you wanna get technical Thriller.
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Jun 10, 2020 14:41
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BisonDollah posted:I can watch 12 of them on Amazon Prime now and one on Disney+ (guess which one?). Mary Lambert's Halloweentown II: Kalabar's Revenge
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Jun 10, 2020 16:33
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Those movies are charming and I only consider it a benefit in Lambert's favor in this tournament.
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Jun 10, 2020 17:58
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Franchescanado posted:The first film is basically saved by a premise that somehow predates Harry Potter and has a really good production design and clever camera work that hides the limited budget. The first film was directed by Duwayne Dunham, who is not a name I expect anyone to know but if you want to spit out your coffee go look up his filmography as an editor.
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Jun 10, 2020 18:46
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Also, like, they're Disney Channel movies.
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Jun 10, 2020 19:15
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Basebf555 posted:What about a rule where if a director with less than 4 qualifying films goes up against a director with the full 6, the more prolific director gets to eliminate x(whatever the difference is) number of their films from the draw, only leaving their strongest in. I think in most cases the decisions on which films to take out would be fairly obvious. Eh, I think it should be on the respective quality of the films. If Jordan Peele runs up against Herschell Gordon Lewis, Lewis may have been around long enough to have a full filmography but did he make anything remotely as good as Get Out? That's a debate to be had when we get to the matchups and I think it's fair. The directors with smaller filmographies are in here because they've so far proven themselves exceptional in a way that warrants graduation into the big leagues. By their inclusion at all, we're saying they can hold their own against guys who've specialized in this genre for decades. Can two great horror movies beat out entire filmographies is a worthwhile question we'll put to the test.
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Jun 10, 2020 21:21
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Carpenter's already won is the new Jason has already won.
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Jun 11, 2020 14:25
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So how long does this seed voting last for until we have a bracket?
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Jun 11, 2020 23:06
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 Schrecknet, it's ROBERT Eggers, not Roger. Basebf555 posted:Came down to three things I expect. FIrst, The Strange Color of Your Body's Tears is fairly divisive. I don't really like it myself. Second, not a lot of people have seen Amer. Third, Let the Corpses Tan isn't horror, and I think that is their best film. This is basically it for me. I really did not like Strange Color of Your Body's Tears, loved Let the Corpses Tan but it's not horror.
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Jun 12, 2020 16:28
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Lost Highway is one of Lynch's weakest films and it's still better than the entire filmographies of half the directors in this bracket.
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Jun 12, 2020 17:31
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Everyone always says Twin Peaks Season 2 is bad, but it's misnomer because the show is great until midway through Season 2 when the killer is revealed. It's very quickly thereafter that things get off the rails. But the finale is good and key to understanding Fire Walk with Me and then The Return is just next level, redefines-filmmaking tier but also relies heavily on your knowledge and affection for the characters as they existed in the original series.
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Jun 12, 2020 17:51
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Look, sitting through like 10 bad episodes of Twin Peaks is worth it for the way some of that poo poo pays off later. Lynch drops a lot of it, but like Coop getting trapped in the lodge is kind of pivotal to the entirety of The Return. edit: Ok, so Laura's killer is revealed in episode 9 of season 2. The one right after that is fine. Then there's about 11 bad episodes, which have varying degrees of quality between them, before the finale brings it back home. Like, there's some stuff in the back half of that season that isn't all that bad and honestly if you're used to watching bad TV it's better than a lot of typical garbage people get addicted to. If anything, it's just the come down from the high of how good the show was before. But I cannot stress enough the level of masterpiece that Fire Walk with Me and The Return are. It's worth a powering through a relatively short mid-series rough patch. TrixRabbi fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jun 12, 2020 |
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Jun 12, 2020 19:58
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Those episodes also probe the mythology of the Black Lodge in a way that is very necessary to later. Particularly the character development for Major Briggs that factors heavily into The Return.
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Jun 12, 2020 20:04
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For Soavi I've only seen Cemetery Man so yeah, can't fret the roll there.
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Jun 12, 2020 22:24
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Has there ever been a truly great multi-director anthology film? Like, stuff like Creepshow generally works but it's one director. And I'm casting the scope both within and beyond horror. It just seems like the format almost always results in at least one if not multiple weak links.
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Jun 16, 2020 15:54
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And all of those films had one director behind them. I'm talking about the format of multiple different directors contributing self-contained short films that are then put together into a feature. And even when you look back at stuff with prestige directors like Spirits of the Dead, RaGoPaG and New York Stories there's always weak links, let alone in horror anthologies like the V/H/S series. edit: Spirits of the Dead might be the strongest example of a multi-director anthology film, with some people really loving it. But in its time and still today it's divisive. TrixRabbi fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Jun 16, 2020 |
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Jun 16, 2020 16:15
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STAC Goat posted:I just tend to take anthologies like you would ordering a bunch of appetizers for dinner. There's probably not going to be a great meal in there, but I'm basically choosing it because I want a taste of a few different things and can't decide on an entre. And like I like the idea that anthologies are generally less great directors taking their best ideas and is more experimental in both unproven directors and iffy unpolished ideas. I've had this idea I'd love to see someone fund. Since Gus Van Sant did his shot for shot Psycho remake now two decades ago it's become a fascinating case study in how simply following a storyboard shot for shot can't cover for the little nuances that make a story come together. I'd love to see someone dish out like $2 million each to five directors to remake Psycho shot for shot with the same script, but beyond the storyboard and screenplay they have complete creative control. I would love to see what they come up with.
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Jun 16, 2020 22:17
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This would happen with the first bracket too. The matchups would be posted and generate heated discussion, but then by the end of the voting period it would peter out to maybe a post or two a day. Then the results are announced, a new round of voting starts, rinse wash repeat.
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Jun 18, 2020 16:38
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I cannot tell y'all how happy I am that Mary Lambert drew Halloweentown II. However, the true marquee battle here is The Beyond vs. The Addiction. Both very strong draws and makes this a true battle. Also, unrelated but Shrecknet . Brian De Palma may have The Black Dahlia listed for his films, however I'm not sure if it really counts as horror or if it's more of a neo-noir. Before we get to him I'd hate for him to draw something that ends up being ostensibly non-horror.
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Jun 19, 2020 14:27
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Shrecknet posted:Thriller/Suspense is allowed, theres more to horror than gore and slashers That's fine by me, it's just something I realized and wasn't sure how we were classifying things. Also, ironically, I may end up voting Halloweentown 2 in this matchup if only for 1) I have strong nostalgia for that goofy movie and 2) Dead Ringers is not my favorite Cronenberg. Like, I know it's DOA but I gotta vote for the DCOM.
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Jun 19, 2020 16:25
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I'll be the one to out and say it: It's impossible not to at least partially consider the directors' body of work when making these votes. That includes where these films stand within those bodies of work. Like, ultimately the final deciding factor is the films up for discussion, but if you're pairing an obscure Coscarelli vs. a weak Resident Evil, it's hard not to consider "well he did make Phantasm, or but if this had been Event Horizon" when casting your vote. Because ultimately a director's style film-to-film is going to be part of what resonates. But this goes back to the Fulci vs. Ferrara fight here, where we actually have two very strong entries that are representative of their finest work. TrixRabbi fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jun 19, 2020 |
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Jun 19, 2020 18:49
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Dead Ringers/Halloweentown II has to be one of the weirdest double features that practically all of us are gonna be doing this week. Honestly, as much as Dead Ringers left me cold I really owe it a rewatch.
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Jun 19, 2020 23:06
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You're talking about Last House right? Because I find it totally fair for a director to compete on their breakout film that became a horror classic.
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Jun 21, 2020 16:02
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I think your personal hatred for Last House might also be painting your perception here cause I think it's a fine, if grueling and deeply upsetting, movie. Like, ok, he's up against Tim Burton in the first round. I'd vote for Last House over maybe 4/6 of Burton's potential film selections. edit: If you want to talk about actual sabotage. Herschell Gordon Lewis could draw Monster-A-Go-Go, an absolutely abysmal film he only partially directed (and was uncredited) after he bought the rights on the cheap from the original filmmaker. That is a death sentence. Last House on the Left is actually well regarded by most people. TrixRabbi fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jun 21, 2020 |
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Jun 21, 2020 18:34
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What I'm saying is you might be assuming that Craven is gonna get knocked out by a bad draw of Last House on the Left, when I think the movie is more likely a benefit to keeping him in competition depending on what he's up against. In which case, he'll fight another day with a film you're more ready to defend. I mean, look, I'm not telling you how to feel about the movie or saying you need to defend it or even watch it again. I'm not rewatching every movie I've seen already before I vote for it if I've seen it and already know how I feel. While I respect that the film had such a terrible effect on you (I certainly see why you would hate it) I don't think it's sabotaging Craven to have the movie in competition. If he loses on it, he loses fair and square on what is probably the third most defining film of his career after Elm Street and Scream. But that same status might be what carries him onward so he can pull a better film in a tougher matchup. We'll wait and see. edit: For what it's worth, I've also been skeptical of the format and wanted the directors to just compete on the collective strengths of their careers, but I've grown to enjoy the format for what it is. Like you though, I am terrified that I sabotaged David Lynch by including The Grandmother instead of Blue Velvet, which while fine, is a rough short film that could cause him to lose out to a more impactful feature. TrixRabbi fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jun 21, 2020 |
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Jun 21, 2020 18:57
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I mean, watch as Craven never draws Last House once during the competition and winds up losing on Red Eye or something cause he was up against Suspiria.
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Jun 21, 2020 19:23
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I still feel like maybe we should remove shorts and anthology segments from competition since the vast majority of films here are features.
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Jun 21, 2020 19:41
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Ok, look, The Birds is a masterpiece. Look at it like this: The Birds is a deliberate deconstruction of traditional Hollywood genres. The film, down to its title invoking "Lovebirds," plays for so much of its runtime as a standard romance to a painfully cliched degree. The love triangle plot is trite, filled with archetypal characters with petty grievances and generally inconsequential concerns. In fact, the only thing betraying the film's romantic facade is the lack of a score (as well as the audience's knowledge of the Hitchcock brand). But something strange starts happening: the film becomes invaded by an absurdist horror that no one knows what to do with. As the romantic tension flares up, so do the bird attacks, and the attacks are all tied to Melanie's romantic feelings. When she sees Mitch, coming to shore, is when the first bird strike happens. When she and Annie confront each other in the living room the conversation is cut short by a bird hitting the door. Finally, when the three women competing for Mitch's affection are all together for the first time at the birthday party -- Melanie, Annie and the mother -- is when we finally get the first big bird attack of the film. Their feelings are psychically tied to these attacks, and they're incapable of controlling them. And moreso, they resist the reality of what is happening. This is a romance dammit, we need to keep the story going. But it's a hurricane force, these birds, until they finally overtake the entire movie. The horrors go from comical to grotesque, when the mother discovers the neighbor with his eyes pecked out and finally to the apocalyptic. The final act, with Melanie, Mitch, the mother and the sister all trapped at home, feels like a dry run for Night of the Living Dead. The shadows creep in around them, the impending sense of doom. The inexplicable threat that no one wants to believe is real has finally, literally, come home to roost. Having reconciled their relationship, they safely make it to the car, but at the cost of civilization itself.
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Jun 22, 2020 21:04
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