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Thought I saw Spielberg without Jurassic Park for a second. Must've been a hallucination. Alfred Hitchcock Psycho Vertigo The Birds Rebecca Shadow of a Doubt
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Jun 9, 2020 05:50
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Good to see Kim Jee Woon on. Regarding HItchcock, Frenzy was kind of on the bubble, and I was going for what I felt was the more scary films, but I think in terms of horror, it should probably be on the list. I think Shadow of a Doubt has the terror of not being believed and being weaker than a very dangerous person. It's in the same vein as Rear Window (which I see as a mystery with some horror elements) but I found it more effective at its horror. And I wanted Vertigo since I think psychological horror doesn't get enough credit. I don't know enough about Robert Wise's early horror films (Curse of the Cat People, The Body Snatcher) to know if those could compete, but The Haunting would get in and maybe Andromeda Strain. Too bad West Side Story isn't actually a zombie film.
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Jun 9, 2020 17:46
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Shrecknet posted:Seeding! Do we want just random seeding, or some sort of ranked list? I can also assign seeds based on where they finished in the Best Franchise bracket (and do randomized for unseeded entries) if that works? We need some ranking to stop the top seeds from knocking each other out early, but it'd be kind of a pain to pre-rank every single one of the directors. If the council's up for that fine, but maybe we could have 8 'top seeds' determined via vote and the rest get in randomly.
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Jun 9, 2020 18:47
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Going film by film means at most 126 films to watch for the competition, and the obscure directors likely get knocked out early anyway, so it doesn't seem that bad. And I'm in the camp that there needs to be some reason for the elimination brackets, otherwise you might as well just use the ranked-choice poll as your result and spend a little time discussing the picks. Of course, the secondary of goal of encouraging the films by the lesser-known directors to be viewed is an intended effect, to be sure, and nobody's going to stop anyone from going and watching more of someone's filmography on their own.
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Jun 10, 2020 21:55
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Is there any sort of ruling about multiple film versions, as to which cut is official? I guess the question is whether we should go with only one version of those available, or can just consider any multiple cuts as a whole, to the extent that they showcase the director's work on that movie. Probably it's not significant for most of the movies, but I certainly don't know them well enough to say for sure.
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Jun 12, 2020 05:11
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We're only judging one portion of Three Extremes, right? Because there is also another competing director in the film (Miike), unless Park is responsible for the overall anthology.STAC Goat posted:
I keep thinking this should be the CA 15th Congressional District.
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Jun 12, 2020 18:15
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I think Murnau-Park is the toughest match-up in this first set. I have a feeling Murnau gets through based on influence and reputation. I watched them both (first time) two days ago. While Cut had me more captivated (Murnau's plotting never really grabs me in any of the films I've seen of his), it kind of gets a bit too muddled toward the end, and there are some parts of it that just seemed extraneous. Any filmmaker that highlights the artifice of the film using film-making itself always has to do extra work for me to justify it. Granted, it's done reasonably cleverly here, but in the end I give it Murnau. A lot of it rests on Emil Jannings's spectacularly creepy performance, but Murnau captures it well. Most disturbing moment in either of them was 'you thought you were killing some worthless girl, but it turns out to be a valuable penis-haver!' I wasn't totally sure how much that was meant as social commentary or not. Corman was a lot stronger this round than I expected, and Shiraishi a lot weaker. Shirome seemed like it couldn't decide between satirizing girl group culture or found-footage horror movies, and fails at both.
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Jun 14, 2020 20:28
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Debbie Does Dagon posted:It's a shame that Faust isn't going up against Shirome, because they're basically the same film, right? Right? The scene where Faust as an old man does a dance routine at the crossroads was unfortunately cut by Ufa.
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Jun 15, 2020 22:32
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It's clearly ambiguous, but there is also something else at the end of Cut that gave me an alternate interpretation. The shots when he is choking the woman at the piano are mirrored, or at least from another angle. He is coming at her from her left side, which is not how he could approach her when he was still attached through the hole in the set. So it could be interpreted as being an alternate version of the same scenario, in which, say, a man's son has been kidnapped and held at a couch while a woman unknown to him is attached to the piano. The implication being that someone who is willing to murder to save those they love would kill anyone in that situation, which is of course someone whom in another situation is someone else's loved one. I saw the post-credit scene in Shirome but honestly wasn't sure if that was supposed to be "in-character" or not.
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Jun 16, 2020 21:11
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I know we might not want to drag it out too long, but it'll be a lot harder to get through all the movies on a shorter schedule. Watching Cabin Fever 2 now; I kind of wish it was just the dumb Flash animation in the opening all the way through.
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Jun 18, 2020 19:58
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If nothing else, this thread has made me aware of the existence of the search function of justwatch.com (not using the app, just the website).
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Jun 19, 2020 16:45
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The Addiction is still freely available with Comcast (via Movieplex), since they delayed the removal of that channel. Watching it now and noting that the doctor who sees her at the hospital managed a very authentic bedside manner; turns out he's an actual doctor normally working as set physician (explains why you never see his face). Kangra fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jun 19, 2020 |
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Jun 19, 2020 19:01
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married but discreet posted:Ah dang, they solved the question of who's the best horror director, pack it up everyone Oh look they have something for the ladies too. How nice.
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Jun 21, 2020 07:12
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The Beyond/Addiction vote is the toughest match-up yet. The Addiction has style, even if it is painfully 90s and fairly pretentious, but with most of the characters listless and drifting in a world devoid of meaning, it's not that great of a watch. I found The Beyond more fun and the gore is delightful. The problem is that it's maintaining its dreamlike state, which can too easily be a crutch, and with similar intentionality to The Addiction, it prevents much of interesting from happening in terms of a story. Also the minor characters are all way more interesting than the lead and they get killed off too soon. The Addiction at least is anchored by a very solid lead performance, and the acting is generally better all around. I do like the look of Fulci's film more, but only slightly, and so it comes down for me to the complete product of this one film, and for that it tilts just barely in favor of Abel Ferrera. As much as I liked Survival Quest, it's not quite horrifying enough for me personally. It definitely had a shot at it, since the unhinged psychopath was a fitting villain. But it needed to keep up the tension instead of deflate it, such as if the bear scene had provided another source of menace instead of turning into a cartoonish joke sequence. So even though Resident Evil Afterlife has maybe one or two decent scenes, it's enough to get me to vote for it.
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Jun 22, 2020 20:10
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HotB and Frighteners are running neck-and-neck for me. Both are crowd-pleasers in their own way, and I wasn't really familiar with either of them before so I have no particular associations. Watched Last House on the Left for the first time today after first watching The Virgin Spring a few days ago. I'm try to judge it simply on its own merits, though, although, so really the first film just helped prepare me for what would happen. And since there are actual characters in The Virgin Spring it is way more disturbing and affecting. I can see that there are some ideas in Craven's film and clearly a good horror sensibility that will at some point help define the genre, but man, the execution really is inept at parts. It's interesting that it's one director's early work up against another one's later work, especially since Sleepy Hollow seems to be Tim Burton getting a bit tired of what he's been doing for a while. I think I have to give it the nod for not making so many mistakes that the other film does.
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Jun 28, 2020 07:40
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Schrecknet, you might want to put a link to the current director list in the OP (or in the third post), since the original one in the OP goes to the long list that was narrowed down. (I know it's linked on the results pages too, but those might not be the first place people look when seeing who is in the mix).
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Jul 1, 2020 13:44
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I ended up going with Fisher myself. The Frighteners had a bit more panache but evoking a real-life killing spree in your comedy horror film was a bit too unseemly. A lot of that is on Stephen King working out his personal nightmares, but Jackson also made the movie the way it is.
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Jul 1, 2020 17:44
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Wait, are the seedings mislabeled on this part of the bracket? It shows a #3 vs a #7 (Dante/Cohen) and #10 vs #14 (Wan/Flanagan). I don't know if that means Cohen is actually a #14 or if they got flipped to the wrong position.
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Jul 2, 2020 15:06
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I might not get to Delirium, but from the sound of it, it's not much of a contender anyway. I did re-watch The Invisible Man to pay closer attention to the direction, and Whale really is remarkably modern. Not sure if he was entirely ahead of his time, but he definitely seemed to get the language of film very readily. I also looked up more details on how this was made and saw that Preston Sturges worked on an early version of the script, along with Philip Wylie (who also adapted [i[The Island of Dr. Moreau[/i]) But they didn't use that script and instead went with one written by R.C. Sherriff. James Whale, of course, remarked, "I shot the Sherriff... but I did not shoot the Sturges-Wylie."
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Jul 13, 2020 19:09
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I'm voting for Black Christmas because while it's close, I think it really shows better direction than HoHH. Even if the film doesn't ultimately tell a full story, there are so many shots that just excellently crafted. I'd probably even say that it's those that end up being the more influential parts of the film. This is probably the first match-up where either one of these is a very worthy contender that might have beaten most of the movies in the tournament.
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Jul 15, 2020 19:16
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I've been gradually refining the criteria I use for voting, especially as it can be difficult to compare two films straight up and I don't want to just say 'which do I like more', since this is ostensibly about comparing the directors' work. One thing I tried to do, without actually drawing on their whole set, was consider whether I wanted 'more' of the same director based on the one movie. I think a better question that the "Does this count as horror"' debate has pushed me towards is, "How well does this director 'get' horror?". Even without a definite statement of what horror is, or again taking into account their actual additional output, I can try to imagine what sort of horror films the director would make, based on the film I watched. So when I see Memories of Murder I can say that I think Bong Joon-ho gets it. Robert Rodriguez in Planet Terror does as well, although in a different way -- he gets it by way of reference and appealing to the audience's knowledge of horror, and also making some good gore, while Bong Joon-ho knows how to create psychologically compelling scenes that can play on our fears. I think you could put someone like Bergman to that test; he seems to get horror even if he didn't really make a film that counts. And Gore Verbinski would fit in well from just the PotC films. It's not the only thing I consider -- I actually do take into account how effective a film actually is as horror, but it's a way for me to try and get at which director I think wins each round. In particular I was also finding 2000 Maniacs vs. The Fury a hard one to decide. I'm not that big of a Brian DePalma fan, and while I enjoyed 2000 Maniacs a bit more, it is very clearly less ambitious a film than The Fury. And I think that Herschell Gordon Lewis's treatment of horror is probably something a bit less complex, or at least less to my tastes, than what DePalma could do. The part that is tough is that I still think The Fury is rather unsteady in its direction, while the 2000 Maniacs is mostly more smooth the whole way through.
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Jul 22, 2020 07:57
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I do like your explanation and I think what you're saying is all there in the movie, but I still don't think it does a great job conveying it. The Kirk Douglas spy thriller part is a bit too much, and there seem to be missed opportunities to really explore Gillian's feelings and reactions more. It's still a good film, but I get the impression it could have been better. I would acknowledge that it has more problems with editing than with directing.
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Jul 23, 2020 15:48
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I was looking forward to watching The Nightingale this afternoon but then I found out my workplace is in danger of going out of business due to corporate idiocy trying to shut down remote working, so I think I'll wait. Then again maybe it'll hit me better. I watched The Babadook at a vulnerable time and it wrecked me but there's part of me that feels better about the experience.
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Jul 26, 2020 00:04
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Did end up watching The Nightingale and while it isn't very cathartic, and it did bring me down quite a bit in a few key moments, it did not leave me depressed. It was actually intriguing in a way as I began to view it as a horror movie with dramatic elements (instead of the reverse which it is marketed as). The reason I say that is the world it creates is just as exaggeratedly likely to kill off a character as any slasher or similar movie, even if it lacks a particular monstrous entity. That's an interesting route to take it since it doesn't quite hit the emotional depth that a straight drama would, though when it wants to it can move away from the relentless misery to give some scenes more weight. It's also an interesting context for the historical situation, although I feel it does step a bit away from that as it reaches it conclusion and is more vengeance-focused. Still have to see Midsommar but this is a strong contender.
Kangra fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 06:48
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TrixRabbi posted:I mean, we could just go back to the format of reshuffling everything for every new round since it's already happened once. Not a decree, just floating it. A kind of semi-solution might be to change the cell background of future round movies to black, so they're 'spoilered'.
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Jul 29, 2020 21:00
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moths posted:I always had the impression that Twin Peaks was also a loose satire of the dumb kinds of things you'd see on television. Mashed into a metaphysical murder mystery. Yeah, it seemed like it was at least partly a satire but more of a twisted version than an outright mockery of prime-time soaps, at least initially. Of course doing twisted versions of normal dramatic stories in order to heighten some element of them is Lynch's stock in trade.
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Jul 30, 2020 05:35
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I'm glad to see Kim Jee-woon get some attention, and even if The Quiet Family isn't his best output, it's a darn fine debut and a decent showcase of his talent. But as enjoyable as it is, is just a bit too slight to go against a heavyweight like Poltergeist.
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Aug 4, 2020 05:26
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STAC Goat posted:I did really enjoy the MST3K episode now and now I’m half tempted to see if I can track down all the episodes and go through them on a watchlist or something. Wait, 217 episode?!?! Holy crap. There's a ton of fun to be had since you can just sit along and watch these any time. The format didn't change but there was a gradual shift over time and everybody's favorite varies a lot (mine is Season 3). What I'd do is pick one episode from each season (you don't have to bother with season 1 since it was a tiny-market show at the time) in order to figure out which era you like, and then go with the whole season surrounding it, working outward from there if you want more.
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Aug 5, 2020 05:25
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Scott/Carpenter should be Battle Dan O'Bannon (the horror in Dark Star is having to be a philosophy instructor).
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Aug 6, 2020 21:18
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I'll probably give the podcast a listen because I found Shivers to be deeply unpleasant. I have an inkling of what's there behind it, but the experience of watching it put me off a lot. Not sure which film to pick because I don't want to just go with a director based on their remaining entries.
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Aug 9, 2020 07:26
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That is something I hadn't really thought about with Shivers -- that by putting it in that context Cronenberg makes even normal intimate contact come off as a horrific event. I do think that this is an exploration and not an exploitation of the panoply of human sexual behavior, but I just think the way it's presented is somewhat irresponsible and maybe even unnecessary. He seems to want to just present them and let us observe or criticize but there's also a degree of fascination that is deeply unpleasant. Granted, for its time it might have stood out as being unafraid with regard to these taboos. I think in the age of the internet it's become more obvious that indulging those darker fascinations really can lead to some really awful places. I don't want to condemn his impulse to look at these things, and yes it's his first film and he has certainly done better. But judged on its own, I don't think I would consider it very worthwhile. I watched Vertigo today and I feel like some mention should be made of it this week. It's never been one that I totally love, but I think I like it a bit more each time I see it. I think what I've always disliked is how flat the romance is; to me it should be more believable, although possibly it is intentional. It does lend some credence to the theory that perhaps we ought to question the reality of it all.
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Aug 12, 2020 06:42
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Dawn of the Dead was one of those movies I'd never gotten around to seeing, but given all the praise it gets I was excited to finally watch it. I'm sad to say it was really kind of a disappointment. It's not so much that it was overhyped but that I think the flaws tend to not get mentioned. It rightfully can be praised for a lot of iconic imagery, and it certainly defined the zombie apocalypse (more so than Night) but the first hour or so really drags. The satire is okay but not particularly biting (even put in the context of its time). Also, the characters are so ill-defined and inconsistent that it's hard to stay with it. They aren't even acting on instinct, they're just performing actions consistent with what the plot demands (usually so there can be another great zombie attack sequence). I know there is the longer cut that supposedly adds more depth, but stretching it out is not what the film needs. If I didn't dislike de Palma so much I might not give it my vote, but there are enough fantastic moments in Dawn that I can feel okay with it. I just think there's quite a bit of dross there as well.
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Aug 26, 2020 22:32
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Rebecca seems to get kind of overlooked among Hitchcock's films, possibly because it's seen as an adaptation of such a well-known book, so maybe less of a Hitchcock story. But in its time it won the Best Picture Academy Award and really established him as a quality director to a broad audience. Hitchcock manages to effortlessly move the film from romance to gothic ghost story to a suspense thriller and keeps all the elements in balance. It has one of his strongest female leads as well, with Joan Fontaine keeping her wits about her in the face of the oppressive presence of Rebecca, while also depicted as deeply devoted to her new husband. There are moments that are pure Hitchcock, with the audience hoping that someone manages to pass off a lie or get away with a major crime. And of course the masterfully creepy performance by Judith Anderson as Mrs. Danvers makes her one of his better horror antagonists, even if she's only ever using psychological torment. I don't know how well it well do this round against one of Cronenberg's best, but I'm somewhat happier even if Hitchcock goes out that a few more people will take a chance to watch it. Also, it's apparently an odd coincidence that the trailer for a new Netflix-produced adaptation was released today. (https://youtu.be/LFVhB54UqvQ)
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Sep 8, 2020 17:55
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M_Sinistrari posted:I do consider Ebert a shitheel for doxxing Betsy Palmer because she was in Friday the 13th, spoiling the ending of that film That was Gene Siskel who gave out the town where she lived and deliberately spoiled the ending.
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Sep 14, 2020 03:58
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I'm voting for Human Vapor myself, but mostly because Audition left me cold. I think it's for some of the reasons STAC Goat laid out; the characters aren't relatable enough in the first half to make me invested in anything that happens to them later (aside from the son, who is too minor to carry it). To some extent I think there is some Miike fatigue for me, or at least I feel that his other films are more fascinating and visually distinctive than this. Audition was a film I always almost picked up at the video store before deciding on something else, so I missed out on seeing it totally unspoiled and that may have affected my experience as well. Human Vapor is not particularly great, and I definitely don't think it measures up to other Honda movies, but I do like the way some of the scenes are shot. It's probably one that I'd be willing to revisit, which I probably would not do with Audition. (Also it was hard not to laugh at seeing Phil Moskewitz as the detective.)
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Sep 23, 2020 13:35
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I just don't know what you would need to invaginate in the remake though. VHS tapes worked well, but even an optical disc seems to be outdated for that purpose. I'm going with David Lynch on that match-up, because I think Inland Empire was the first time I really got Lynch as a horror director. I always thought he was more about showing things that are seedy and off-kilter and creepy, but watching that it really struck me that the things he is displaying can be terrifying, and I would not be surprised if it is in fact the sort of thing that he finds very scary. I like the upthread comparison that Miike sees some of the same things as fascinating. But I also think Miike is terribly disturbed by the fact that people do find them fascinating.
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Sep 24, 2020 05:26
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I went Cronenberg/Miike, even though I'm not necessarily eager to watch that final. For me, Rabid had the more interesting ideas, even if those themes are arguably done better by Cronenberg elsewhere. Lair of the White Worm seems pretty thin to me, and I don't find it all that fun. Of course, on the other side of the vote I went for the lighthearted and shallower piece, but that largely was due to my feeling that Yuzna just didn't direct his film in a way that meshes together. Cronenberg had the good sense to end it when his primary character & patient zero for the outbreak died.
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Oct 1, 2020 17:01
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As The Gods Will vs. The Devils: This one went to Miike for me. I actually rather like silly teen death battle movies, and it was competently done and entertaining. Even if I don't think it's Miike's finest work, it was visually engaging enough and has some fun 'monster' design. There's a lot of The Devils that just doesn't appeal to me, and what does I feel I can turn to better films for. Ichi the Killer vs. Altered States: I don't really like either of these films that much. But Ichi is in many ways repulsive and not something I really care to watch. Whether that's intentional or not, it still isn't going to make me any more invested in watching it. Both of them have something interesting to say, but Altered States I think does it a little better, even if in my opinion the direction is a bit at odds with the screenplay. But Russell doesn't seem to mind having a muddled message, and even if I don't really agree with what Altered States seems to be saying, I can appreciate how it goes about conveying it. So Altered States wins 'less bad' this time. Over Your Dead Body vs. Gothic: This is the closest match for me, as I find them both to be very interesting films I don't quite get, but nevertheless are ones that I kind of wouldn't mind understanding better. I wanted to give Gothic another shot so I re-watched it today. About halfway through I was on its side, but the tumble toward the ending feels just a bit turgid. I think Russell sometimes overstates himself. On the one hand, there's a lusty energy to this and Miike is relatively restrained, even to the point of feeling constricted in Over Your Dead Body. Ultimately, though, I'm not really on board with Russell. He's not my cup of tea, and while I'm not a big fan of Miike, I think that this film shows some real attention to detail in its construction. There's an intricacy to it even if I find a bit emotionally opaque. I probably should have given it a re-watch to be totally fair, but I actually think it would only confirm my choice. Vote to Miike.
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Oct 8, 2020 06:14
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I'm not thrilled about who won, but in truth, this tournament was all about being exposed to the catalog of directors we might not know well. Ishiro Honda's probably the real winner for me, but I also have more respect for Paul W.S. Andersen, and I've clarified what I like and dislike about Cronenberg and Miike.
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Oct 9, 2020 22:35
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