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No Deadly Friend, no Craven
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Jun 8, 2020 22:44
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Takashi Miike Ichi the Killer Audition Over Your Dead Body Gozu The Happiness of the Katakuris As The Gods Will
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Jun 9, 2020 00:18
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Let's really kick some poo poo up JAMES WHALE 1. Frankenstein 2. Bride of Frankenstein 3. The Invisible Man 4. The Old Dark House RIDLEY SCOTT 1. ALIEN 2. PROMETHEUS 3. ALIEN COVENANT 4. HANNIBAL TOBE HOOPER 1. Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2. TCM 2 3. Invaders From Mars 4. Lifeforce 5. Salems Lot 6. Eaten Alive DARIO ARGENTO 1. Terror at the Opera 2. Deep Red 3. Suspiria 4. Phenomena 5. Inferno 6. Tenebrae WES CRAVEN BUT DONE CORRECTLY YOU FUCKS 1. Deadly Friend 2. Scream 3. Nightmare on Elm Street 4. The Hills Have Eyes 5. The Last House on the Left 6. The People Under the Stairs Burkion fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Jun 9, 2020 |
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Jun 9, 2020 03:04
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married but discreet posted:Dario Argento didn't direct Demons, Lamberto Bava did. You meant to say Phenomena. Yes I did, editing
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Jun 9, 2020 03:18
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married but discreet posted:What is this nonsense, Christine slaps! We have this conversation every few months but Christine is way better than people remember
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Jun 9, 2020 03:32
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Hollismason posted:Can't believe I'm the first to do this but here it goes: Man I was the first one to get Argento out there, I had to save it for someone
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Jun 9, 2020 04:22
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Shrecknet posted:Done. I honestly haven't seen it and didn't know it was horror. Thought it was more Sin City than FDTD. M Night should be in this yeah, but as I've already thrown six in I'm content with letting others champion the rest. Do my boy WIngard proud tho, Death Note is beautiful
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Jun 9, 2020 05:44
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UWE BOLL 1. Alone in the Dark 2. Alone in the Dark 2 3. Bloodrayne 4. Bloodrayne: Deliverance 5. Bloodrayne: The Third Reich 6. House of the Dead CHARLES BAND 1. Dollman VS Demonic Toys 2. Blood Dolls 3. Evil Bong 4. Gingerdead Man 5. The Dead Want Women 6. Puppet Master The Legacy I'm not saying these should be in But I'm saying they could be
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Jun 9, 2020 18:35
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STAC Goat posted:As I said earlier, feel free to bump West and McKee if people feel stronger about other entries. I'm not married to them and I doubt anyone else will care. They're safe "bubble" entries. (and Benson/Moorehead I guess). I don't think you should cherry pick anyone for this kind of thing...but that's literally ALL James Whale has. That's not picking quality over anything. He literally has that and nothing else.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:00
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TrixRabbi posted:
I'd swap Mothra and Destroy All Monsters for Rodan and Half Human, myself. Rodan is closer to a horror movie in the first half than Mothra is in any fashion, and Destroy All Monsters is a pure kaiju film while Half Human is an oft forgotten film that got re-edited in 1958 with John Caradine.
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Jun 9, 2020 19:44
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Well I guess since I brought him to the table I'll claim...Shrecknet posted:You know what? I'm in for this. I'm gonna throw out the JP poll too. Each Council Member elects one director to move on, once they have all selected, we'll do a ranked-choice thingy after. drat you. Well then I guess MacheteZombie posted:I'm picking Argento Mother Fucker! gently caress it, might as well be on brand. ISHIRO HONDA
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Jun 9, 2020 20:15
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Shrecknet posted:That's why you're on the council! Invaders from Mars is cut, Poultergeist (at least the parts not stolen from Tobe and directed by Spielberg) is now on the list. That right there is why I didn't include Poltergeist on the Tobe list. Felt Astric-y
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Jun 10, 2020 05:44
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I adore A Deadly Friend genuinely and think that it'll surprise you how many other people have a soft spot for it. And, as I am the one who picked it and chose that specific line up along with the others I wrote up, I'll explain why- They're honest. Not every film they made was a masterpiece. No one makes only all time great films. For some of them I gave them what options they even had, but for Wes and Tobe, I specifically picked the ones I felt best represented their entire body of work, problematic content and all. What's more likely to hurt Wes is Last House on the Left, and for good reason. Just as what's likely to hurt Raimi is Evil Dead 1, or so on. But they have to be counted too. Wes Craven made genre defining work, top tier horror that broke new ground. He also made Deadly Friend, and Scream 3, and loads of other things. One unspoken thing I had when making my personal lists was avoiding sequels, with one notable exception, because we learn nothing new from the director from them. They're just more of the same. Scream 2 is just Scream but again. We already know what we need to from the original. Nightmare is Nightmare is Nightmare. A Deadly Friend is, if nothing else, unique. It's a subject matter that Craven never touched on before or after, with some all time great imagery and 80s cheese and one of the best kills in all of 80s horror. Possibly all of horror, period. The one unspoken exception to my no sequels rule was TCM 2, because that is a wildly different beast that speaks to how creative and great Tobe Hooper was. I will not and cannot accept people poo poo talking films like Deadly Friend, when they make up the bedrock of what horror should be. Goofy, silly, trashy films made by people who love the genre and want to do new things with it. Sure you could load down a Wes Craven list without Deadly Friend, but would that be any loving fun? No, I argue, it would not be. Horror goes beyond prestige and should never be ashamed of that. That's what people who want it to be 'risen above'. That's what 'elevated horror' numbskulls think. There is no elevated horror. If it's horror, it's horror. Nothing else to be said but that.
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Jun 10, 2020 08:24
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STAC Goat posted:I can understand the idea of wanting to spread across the catalogue and avoid sequels when we're forced to cut down 4 or 5 decades of films to 6 films. But it seems like you could do that while also representing what people generally love about Wes. I'm not a big Shocker fan but I'd say its a more loved film of his that would deserve a spot and is unique from the others. I do like Serpent & The Rainbow and People Under The Stairs and think they also speak to Wes' diversity and different things in both his work and the genre in general. I think I think New Nightmare is similar to TCM 2 in a change and shift from the original, and in many ways groundbreaking and a predecessor to what Scream did. I don't know. My dude, stop putting yourself down every post. This is not a serious thing, you don't need to keep flogging yourself over and over and over. You have concerns, list 'em. Say 'em. Own 'em. Don't be so timid about it and stepping back from them all the time. The following is my opinion on certain choices. New Nightmare is redundant with Scream and Nightmare proper on the list. New Nightmare is more meta than Scream, but Scream perfects it. I was the one who put People Under the Stairs on his list, Shreck I have to assume replaced it with Red Eye, which is their call. The rest was what I felt was different and diverse enough across his tenure, highs and lows. Also, you seem to forget, you can absolutely suggest a different selection- I did. Twice. Wes Craven was the one given a list first, but I overrode it with my own nonsense. Because, as I've stated in this thread and the previous, I am a fan of Deadly Friend. I think it's a unique if flawed film and deserves a spot on the Wes Craven filmography. The dude directed it, after all. Nothing is set in stone. If you think something deserves a better shot, say so and see what others say. No one is fighting anything or anyone. We're all fans of these people, or wanting to see them tarred and feathered depending. No other creator is treated any differently than Wes, at least by me. Like, fun fact, Half Human 1955 effectively has never been officially released, I just happen to have a version of it on Archive.org that I'm going to be sharing if/when that comes up. It's also, as admitted by ANYONE who has seen it, not one of Honda's best works. It'd have been extremely easy for me to keep Half Human off the list, to suggest War of the Gargantuans or some such, or argue that he should only have the four films that most embody horror from him. Not only did I not do that, I was the one who nominated Half Human onto the list, because the alternative wasn't really honest nor interesting. I see this as both a celebration of these creators, and also a way to spread some of their not as well known films with new people to enjoy.
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Jun 10, 2020 09:49
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Franchescanado posted:The first film is basically saved by a premise that somehow predates Harry Potter and has a really good production design and clever camera work that hides the limited budget. The makeup and animatronics in that film is pretty impressive
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Jun 10, 2020 19:04
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If anyone needs any help finding Ishiro Honda's work, just hit me up. A lot of it is on HBO max now actually!
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Jun 10, 2020 21:19
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TrixRabbi posted:Eh, I think it should be on the respective quality of the films. If Jordan Peele runs up against Herschell Gordon Lewis, Lewis may have been around long enough to have a full filmography but did he make anything remotely as good as Get Out? That's a debate to be had when we get to the matchups and I think it's fair. The directors with smaller filmographies are in here because they've so far proven themselves exceptional in a way that warrants graduation into the big leagues. By their inclusion at all, we're saying they can hold their own against guys who've specialized in this genre for decades. Can two great horror movies beat out entire filmographies is a worthwhile question we'll put to the test. There are also cases like with James Whale who only ever got to make the four horror films due to bullshit going on at the time. An openly gay man getting screwed over by the studio and then shut out of the industry in the 40s, and then the latter portion of his life, he never had the chance to make more than what he did. This is one of the only ways you can pit people like him against people like Romero, Craven and Carpenter, who worked for decades in the field.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:40
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I'm using Whale as an example as some one who wasn't allowed to continue making these kinds of movies. It's to his fortune that his four movies are all great- other director's aren't that lucky.
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Jun 10, 2020 22:57
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feedmyleg posted:Have you heard Carpenter talk about his career? It's generally with the sort of attitude of "Well, doesn't do me any good that my movies are beloved now. If people had bothered seeing the things at the time then maybe I could have actually done half of what I wanted to do." Yeah that's also a whole thing with horror. It's the bastard child of the movie genres and we all know it. Which is why- STAC Goat posted:I'm sure that's true but I think practically we probably don't have many people in this field who (a) were poo poo on by the system and (b) were unable to showcase their skill despite that. Sadly those people probably mostly just got lost to history. So I'm not sure what this really accomplishes.* I think you're overestimating Peele's chances here. Horror fans are very forgiving and very willing to go with what's fun over what's 'good'. Though I will also say, I brought this up for adjacent reasons and not as part of your on going thing. I was also under the impression that we would be doing a few rounds with movie vs movie and then switch things up as it goes.
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Jun 10, 2020 23:44
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STAC Goat posted:Yeah, I didn't realize until the last couple of years how drat eclectic Hooper is. I always thought of him solely as the TCM guy but Poltergeist, TCM 2, Lifeforce, Salem's Lot... he's all over the place and he makes it all work. I now understand why Burkion included Salem's Lot and Invader from Mars and left out Poltergeist and am more sympathetic to us adopting that approach across the board. Thank you. For what it's worth, Invader From Mars is a really good Effects film that I think Tobe Hooper did an excellent job with. It's another remake of a 1950s original, though it doesn't get the same kind of attention as The Thing and The Blob do. It's probably not one of his best movies, but it looks pretty drat great
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Jun 11, 2020 21:18
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Basebf555 posted:Clearly though if Carpenter rolls Halloween or The Thing, he wins any matchup easily, at least for the first few rounds. Anything else and the door is at least a little bit open for an upset. There's some movies out there that trump Halloween pretty easily. I'll be interested to see how the randomization plays out
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Jun 11, 2020 21:28
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married but discreet posted:Y'all making me feel bad for nominating Polanski in the first place His work, just like Landis, has its place in history and is good. Landis made some iconic movies that will far outlive his own legacy. But when we're talking about the director's themselves, which is effectively what this whole thing is about, they deserve no celebration and no praise. They are lovely people that happened to make good movies.
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Jun 11, 2020 23:50
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Well let's see how far you can go Honda
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Jun 12, 2020 02:10
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Welp Ishiro Honda is losing round two it seems, shame
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Jun 12, 2020 05:20
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By the by for round 2 if Honda makes it that far https://archive.org/details/HalfHuman_20170325/Half+Human.mkv Here is the original cut of Half Human, at least as much as we have.
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Jun 12, 2020 06:03
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STAC Goat posted:I am irrationally devastated to realize that Wes' first three movies are Last House on the Left, Red Eye, and Deadly Friend. My poor Wes. Man, Godzilla 1954 is Honda's last movie. Imagine how I feel
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Jun 12, 2020 06:38
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STAC Goat posted:At least you probably won't be actively voting against Honda in the first round. So this is another reason I picked the films I picked for Honda, or rather the ones I suggested to change. All of the movies are stand alone. None of them share any continuity with any of the others except retroactively in other films. Rodan and Gojira technically happen in the same universe, but as far as those films go, they are mutually exclusive. And Toho is actively ashamed of Half Human so, you know. One thing I will say for Rodan- DO NOT, DO NOT watch the English Dub. The English Dub is ABSOLUTE GARBAGE I actually like a lot of dubs in the Godzilla line up, especially specific ones- MechaGodzilla 74's dub is a master work and the English version of VS Mothra 64 is the definitive version of the film to me- but Rodan's dub is at that awkward as poo poo point where America was being super racist towards Japanese films. The entire movie has a narrator who drones on over the ENTIRE film to the point where you start actively ignoring what anyone is saying and you miss what's going on with the character drama and interactions. It's really, really bad. That was kind of what you ran into back in the 50s, either you'd get a rework like King of the Monsters 1956 that added A White Dude who could do some mild narrating and act as the audience surrogate (for white people) in a primarily Japanese film Or you just have there be a narrator who talks over the entire goddamn movie in case dumb white people don't understand what their eyes and ears are telling them. Half Human's english version is more in the vein of the first type and it's not the worst, exactly, but it is a worse version of the film. It over explains things, though John Carradine is always nice to see. They also got the suit for the baby yeti from Toho which is rare but neat. (The worst of that type is the english version of Varan, which is one of the most turbo racist WHITE MAN SAVES THE DAY adaptations of any film to ever exist, it's amazing) EDIT: Oh, oh Goat buddy no, throw that away. Oh God throw that away. I mean you could watch them in linear order if you want but for this you're free to just skip around. If you wanted to watch the films as they are relevant then I guess but trust me, the continuity of this universe didn't kick in until ten years after Godzilla 1954 was even made.
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Jun 12, 2020 06:48
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STAC Goat posted:I like doing linear watching, and like, it just makes it easier for me to focus on a task to have a list I can check off. But that's a thing for some other time. Right now I think its just about Godzilla and Rodan within this tournament and how much I enjoy them will affect when and how I dig deeper in the future. Okay, proper continuity for watching is kind of straight forward There are three main continuities to worry about. (Sort of the third one is more nebulous) Regardless, you start with Godzilla 1954. Then you pick with continuity you want- Showa, Heisei or MISC Showa ties into MISC in odd places but we'll cover that in MISC Showa continuity picks up with Godzilla Raids Again 1955, then Rodan 1956, Varan if you haave to, Mothra 1961, King Kong VS Godzilla, Godzilla VS Mothra, and such. Pepper in Frankenstein Conquers the WOrld, War of the Gargantuans and the other side films as they pop up in the time line as you want. They're all relevant in one way or three. The exception is Destroy All Monsters, even though it was made in the 60s, its actually the last film of the Showa continuity. So that is saved for last if you want to do a true continuity watch. Heisei is way more simple and way more concise. Return of Godzilla and then Biolante and then Ghidorah and then Mothra and then MechaGodzilla II and then Space Godzilla and then Destroyah. No other films relate or are important. You have a Mothra trilogy that's unrelated if you want, but they're awful. The MISC Era is the "Whatever the gently caress" era. Only two of these share any real continuity with anything. Godzilla X MechaGodzilla and Tokyo SOS are direct sequels, and they tie into Mothra 61, Godzilla 54, War of the Gargantuans and the YOG movie. You don't really need to watch them to understand, but they add context. Final Wars is a mismash that's worse the more you understand and the rest only include the original if even that. Then you have Shin which is stand alone, Legendary which is its own series of films, and the anime movies which don't exist and shouldn't be watched
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Jun 12, 2020 07:37
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M_Sinistrari posted:If we ever do brackets for most convoluted franchise order, I vote Godzilla. Some of them go backwards, swear to God.
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Jun 12, 2020 07:53
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Man, Ti got burned real hard here. Cabin Fever is at the best of times okay. Cabin Fever 2 is forgettable at the best of its run. But Lost Highway? Sure it's not one of Lynch's best but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZowK0NAvig This loving scene
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Jun 12, 2020 16:59
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So Masque of the Red Death is probably the best movie ever made about Poe and Roger Coreman's best movie period. On one hand it's kind of unfortunate to swing that out for the first round, on the other hand it gives me an excuse to rewatch the movie so I'm good
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Jun 12, 2020 17:12
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MacheteZombie posted:Koji got hosed getting matched up against Corman, then doubly so for it being Shirome v Masque. (No maybe about it, Drag Me To Hell is going to cost Raimi big)
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Jun 12, 2020 17:21
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Irony.or.Death posted:I was completely on board with this setup until Soavi had to go up against Raimi with loving Aquarius and now I am STAC Goating all over my apartment. Please at least make sure you all watch Cemetery Man in memoriam after he gets blown out. If it had been Cemetery Man, he would have had a chance
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Jun 12, 2020 21:07
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BisonDollah posted:Stage Fright is an absolute stormer of a film and I am so sad people seem so down on it ITT. Is Army of Darkness really considered that strong? It's just got a lot going for it, I think is the general consensus. Stage Fright is a kind of typical slasher film with some fun nudges while Army of Darkness is a whole fantasy adventure comedy thing that has the usual strengths of the Evil Dead franchise to keep it up. But AoD is also easily the weakest of the original three movies. I have a feeling if it went up against Cemetery Man it would lose
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Jun 12, 2020 23:32
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OG Tales from the Crypt too
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Jun 16, 2020 17:48
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Soon my time will come Soon the time to bullshit Honda into the heavens will arrive
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Jun 19, 2020 01:57
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I gave Honda Half Human, Wes gets to have Last House. He made it, people loved it, it made him a name, he has to own it.
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Jun 21, 2020 18:10
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STAC Goat posted:I'm not sure what you mean by that. What they meant by that is that Last House is not likely to be Wes' stumbling block like you think. A lot of people like that movie, and their votes will matter more than yours. You can note your problems with the film, but if other people like it, and a lot do, and other people vote for it, Wes gets to move on regardless.
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Jun 21, 2020 18:51
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(I did try to include People Under the Stairs instead of Red Eye for the record)
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Jun 21, 2020 19:17
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| # ¿ May 21, 2024 10:18 |
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BOY the argument I'm going to have to make for Half Human
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Jun 21, 2020 19:38
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