Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

Computer Serf posted:

Formal and Informal Structures
So that just says the same thing as the transition phase in State and Revolution

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/ch05.htm#s2

quote:

Furthermore, during the transition from capitalism to communism suppression is still necessary, but it is now the suppression of the exploiting minority by the exploited majority. A special apparatus, a special machine for suppression, the “state”, is still necessary, but this is now a transitional state. It is no longer a state in the proper sense of the word; for the suppression of the minority of exploiters by the majority of the wage slaves of yesterday is comparatively so easy, simple and natural a task that it will entail far less bloodshed than the suppression of the risings of slaves, serfs or wage-laborers, and it will cost mankind far less. And it is compatible with the extension of democracy to such an overwhelming majority of the population that the need for a special machine of suppression will begin to disappear. Naturally, the exploiters are unable to suppress the people without a highly complex machine for performing this task, but the people can suppress the exploiters even with a very simple “machine”, almost without a “machine”, without a special apparatus, by the simple organization of the armed people (such as the Soviets of Workers' and Soldiers' Deputies, we would remark, running ahead).

Dictatorship of the proletariat is the formal structure that will maintain the condition of socialism until the formal and informal structure become indistinguishable and communism is achieved.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

Hellblazer187 posted:

Are there any recommended books about the history of the Soviet Union and/or modern China that are written by a Marxist or at least some other flavor of leftist? I'm working my way through studying Capital now. It's hard. I'm getting there. But like, OK, all of this sounds very right in theory. But the USSR committed atrocities and fell. Modern China sounds terrifying. So, I have a few thoughts on how to square these:

1) What I've learned through a western education and media bias about the USSR and about China are skewed.
2) Neither the USSR nor China have been able to run the socialist experiment "in peace" in that there has been outside interference from the capitalist powers
3) Leaders of the communist party deviated from whatever Marx prescribed (I'm not really there yet, I'm still struggling with commodities).
4) There are failures inherent in Marxist thought/philosophy.

I imagine that the soviet experience can be explained by some combination of these factors. So I'd like to study more, but I don't want to read some a book about the failings and crimes of the USSR as written by a neoliberal capitalist dork.

You can try Stephen Kotkin's Paradoxes of Power. He is a neolib, but his concern is with documenting Stalin's rise to power and leadership not a take down of socialism. His account seems a lot more fair than what you usually get in english. For example the classic about famine and starvation in Soviet Union is presented as a product of economic and government policies, and not some ideological failing inherent to communism.

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008


So this was a precursor to Blair Mountain?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply