|
Yeah. Basically, between Warcraft 2 and 3, the orcs turned from cartoonishly evil to noble savage (working about as well as you'd imagine) and Thrall went from a sidestory character (this) to the noblest orc of all (3) to author stand-in (WoW).
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2020 17:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 5, 2024 06:04 |
|
|
anilEhilated posted:Yeah. Basically, between Warcraft 2 and 3, the orcs turned from cartoonishly evil to noble savage (working about as well as you'd imagine) and Thrall went from a sidestory character (this) to the noblest orc of all (3) to author stand-in (WoW). Yeah, a lot of WoW writers didn't get the memo about the switch to noble savages for the Horde. Thrall stepped down as Warchief because he was needed during the latest world-threatening crisis (3rd expansion); his handpicked successor, nominated over the objections of basically everyone including said successor, is commonly called "orc Hitler" in the WoW thread and was the final raid boss in the 4th expansion where the murderhobos coup him out of power. Orc Chamberlain (Thrall) decided he had enough of politics for a while after that fuckup.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2020 19:08
|
|
|
The successor seemed to be learning in events, then he went off the deep end as the plot continued. Mostly because of writers not communicating, as I recall it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2020 19:15
|
|
|
Bloodly posted:The successor seemed to be learning in events, then he went off the deep end as the plot continued. Mostly because of writers not communicating, as I recall it. World of Warcraft is a long string of complex, morally-grey characters deciding to go hard on evil as soon as a dungeon needs a raid boss. Not that Warcraft had that many complex, morally-grey characters as such. But there were a few and you can kill all of them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2020 19:26
|
|
|
Tenebrais posted:World of Warcraft is a long string of complex, morally-grey characters deciding to go hard on evil as soon as a dungeon needs a raid boss. Or if they need to "put back the war in Warcraft". Even expansions, Alliance and Horde learn important lessons about friendship and cooperation. Odd expansions, the writers do a character assassination on an Horde major figure to force the lessons to get unlearned.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2020 19:33
|
|
|
So what was the deal with the main writer who also managed to ruin Starcraft? All I can remember about him is CORRUPTION.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2020 20:10
|
|
|
Yvershek posted:So what was the deal with the main writer who also managed to ruin Starcraft? All I can remember about him is CORRUPTION. Chris Metzen? He was Blizzard's head writer from the beginning AFAIK. By Warcraft 3 he started writing against the idea that anyone was inherently evil. However, he also wasn't one for moral relativism, so the stories he wrote tended to revolve around each villain having been turned to evil by the corrupting influence of someone else. It got kind of farcical in a "prime mover" sense as every exploration of the Big Bad revealed that they were corrupted by some other, older bad endlessly. He also clearly had a thing for attractive, headstrong sniper women getting captured and transformed in a way that left them much more evil and with weird-coloured skin. Warcraft, Starcraft, Overwatch all had one; I don't know if there was ever one in Diablo. He retired a couple of years ago.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2020 20:16
|
|
|
What the...is the Narrator voice from Video 1 the same voice actor speaking in Soul Reaver for the Ancient One? That's...weirdly awesome.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2020 20:21
|
|
|
Tenebrais posted:Chris Metzen? He was Blizzard's head writer from the beginning AFAIK. The first boss in diablo 2 is the diablo 1 rogue gone evil/mad
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2020 20:21
|
|
|
FoolyCharged posted:The first boss in diablo 2 is the diablo 1 rogue gone evil/mad And then they repeat the motif in Diablo 3, except - what a twist - the possessee is now a woman! ...But yeah, they did the exact same story beats in Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo. It just took until WoW for fans to realize what a hack Metzen was. Well, that and Starcraft 2's story getting universally panned. Mr.Misfit posted:What the...is the Narrator voice from Video 1 the same voice actor speaking in Soul Reaver for the Ancient One? That's...weirdly awesome. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jun 23, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2020 20:39
|
|
|
 I understand that a lot is still up in the air regarding the future of the forums. There's a lot going on behind the scenes and people are understandably leaving. I want to believe that positive changes will happen to this forum, I joined this site for the community and I found a home here in the LP forum. Either way, I think that it's time that I started to spread my wings. I will continue to post updates with my active LP's but if things go further south I will call it a day here. I've registered on the new LP Beach forum, I will be posting this LP on there momentarily but will be updating both pages when I upload a new update.  This video is the first half of chapter four. Edit: It probably would have helped if I had published the video before posting this.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2020 23:02
|
|
|
Ah. I was wondering where exactly did Thrall learn to throw lightning in his Warcraft 3 incarnation.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 17:59
|
|
|
Oh, that cliffswinger was masterful.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 19:06
|
|
|
I apologise for the lack of my usual summary, it's been a tiring few days on and off the forums. I'll upload the second half of chapter four on Sunday. It's hard to pinpoint my favourite part of this video as there are several golden moments, the bit that has stuck with me the most screaming of "I can see my house from here!" completely out of left-field.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 22:18
|
|
|
Rocket Baby Dolls posted:I apologise for the lack of my usual summary, it's been a tiring few days on and off the forums. I'll upload the second half of chapter four on Sunday. It's hard to pinpoint my favourite part of this video as there are several golden moments, the bit that has stuck with me the most screaming of "I can see my house from here!" completely out of left-field. Thrall doesn't even have a house! He grew up imprisoned in a castle! Is that it? Can he see Durnholde Keep from there? Or is it that Gazlowe's airship is the closest thing he has to a home right now, so seeing it isn't especially impressive when it's moored like, right there? On a different note I just realised what that whole ravine surfing bit is for - you need an item to cross it, so when Drek'thar has your inventory taken away you can't leave the area. You know, if it successfully actually confiscated your stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2020 22:34
|
|
|
The "house" line doesn't even sound like the voice actor and if it is he's using a different voice. Might have been a joke that was intended but never recorded by the final voice. Or maybe just improvised by whoever was recording the temporary dialogue. Speaking of voice actors hi Tony Jay I miss you.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2020 03:56
|
|
|
The story beats in this are wild. Its like they wanted to tell a story and were desperate to get a game crudely built around the story. "What kind of orc talks to him... self" got a real laugh out of me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2020 04:09
|
|
|
I am beyond floored by the UI they came up with for this - The eye, mouth, and hand aesthetic just ooze personality that's pretty rare to see- especially compared to what most adventure games end up settling with. If I hadn't read the OP, I would have assumed this got scrapped due to running over budget with just how detailed everything is. Even down to little things like how the animation in the fight scene seemed to run for nearly a minute before finally looping. Thanks for showcasing this...even though it makes me wish they would polish this up and make it the real deal.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2020 05:55
|
|
|
SeriousSirrus posted:I am beyond floored by the UI they came up with for this - The eye, mouth, and hand aesthetic just ooze personality that's pretty rare to see- especially compared to what most adventure games end up settling with. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2020 07:21
|
|
|
Yeah, it's a straight ripoff from LucasArts. IIRC Monkey Island 3 - a game that apparently sent this back into development - did it as well. But to be fair this is how Blizzard has always designed their games, taking concepts from other games and bashing them together in hopes the result will be more than a sum of its parts. Back then it worked.Kibayasu posted:Speaking of voice actors hi Tony Jay I miss you.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2020 07:25
|
|
|
I think Sam & Max also distilled the interactions down to hand/eye/mouth as well, but it kept "use" separate to "pick up". You know, I actually prefer the old verb grid just because it gave me more than 3 options, even if it's only the illusion of extra options as mostly it does really just boil down to pick up/use/talk to/look at. Anyway, most of the adventure game logic seems fairly tame right now. No using fertiliser and starch on a baby snake to enlarge and stiffen it to create a replacement for a wizard's staff, although Thrall suddenly becoming able to move the ax in ice only after he'd messed with the hot water would have totally stumped me. Bizarre combinations of items, sure, but having an impossible action suddenly become possible with no indication to the player is another thing entirely.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2020 09:25
|
|
|
Crazy Achmed posted:I think Sam & Max also distilled the interactions down to hand/eye/mouth as well, but it kept "use" separate to "pick up". And my favourite interaction, "Max".
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2020 09:42
|
|
|
Gonna echo that it’s always good to hear Tony Jay.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2020 10:15
|
|
|
George posted:Gonna echo that it’s always good to hear Tony Jay.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2020 14:19
|
|
|
The UI was definitely "inspired" by the LucasArts releases. From what I've read about Steve Meretzky joining as a consultant, the UI was one of the things that he changed about the game design.Crazy Achmed posted:Anyway, most of the adventure game logic seems fairly tame right now. No using fertiliser and starch on a baby snake to enlarge and stiffen it to create a replacement for a wizard's staff, although Thrall suddenly becoming able to move the ax in ice only after he'd messed with the hot water would have totally stumped me. Bizarre combinations of items, sure, but having an impossible action suddenly become possible with no indication to the player is another thing entirely. The only tell regarding the ice block is with the snow falling away after the stalactite is pulled down. But that could also be attributed to the quaking of a large stalactite falling into a boiling pit of water. It would made things more obvious if the ice block had slid away from its perch slightly.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2020 19:45
|
|
|
Another Animation Magic game (for the CD-i, of course) was Mutant Rampage: Bodyslam. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tik68qbztoE&t=4m25s They certainly had their charm, and I wonder if they also had their hand in King's Quest 7.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2020 20:24
|
|
|
starbucks hermit posted:They certainly had their charm, and I wonder if they also had their hand in King's Quest 7. They did indeed. I'm not sure if there is a full list of games that they've worked on anywhere. This is what I've found with a quick Google search:
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2020 20:55
|
|
|
I'll upload the second part of chapter four tomorrow, the second half has some weird and wonderful moments. I've just finished playing through the final chapter and I'll attempt a recording of it within the next couple of days. I was tempted to post a two-word post but even that would be too much of a spoiler. Despite the status of the game, it has been a real delight to play and experience.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2020 23:06
|
|
|
 In this episode, Thrall continues on his path of uniting the Orc Horde by completing the dangerous task of stealing an egg. Along the way, he makes new friends, steals their stuff and finds true love!
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2020 11:00
|
|
|
That whole sequence with the dwarf women feels very 90's.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2020 13:10
|
|
|
I'm no blacksmith but I'm pretty sure a big block of cast metal like that would be way too heavy to lift and be so brittle it shattered if striking something.Tenebrais posted:That whole sequence with the dwarf women feels very 90's. Poil fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Jun 28, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2020 13:23
|
|
|
Huh, so I guess this is where they retconned the orcs. IIRC, Warcraft 2 just goes "Blackhand lost Warcraft 1, so Doomhammer killed him, took over and started the second war". Gul'dan did backstab Doomhammer but that was after Doomhammer became the boss and started his war. Durotan seems to be The Good Orc invented out of whole cloth just to vindicate Doomhammer.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2020 17:06
|
|
|
Didn't the orcs win in Warcraft 1 though?
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2020 17:12
|
|
|
Tenebrais posted:Didn't the orcs win in Warcraft 1 though?
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2020 17:13
|
|
|
“I am Optimus Pri- I mean Doomhamer.”
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2020 17:20
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:Huh, so I guess this is where they retconned the orcs. IIRC, Warcraft 2 just goes "Blackhand lost Warcraft 1, so Doomhammer killed him, took over and started the second war". Gul'dan did backstab Doomhammer but that was after Doomhammer became the boss and started his war. The intro to WC2 starts with the Orcs chasing after the Human survivors, who fled to Lordaeron. Tenebrais posted:Didn't the orcs win in Warcraft 1 though? It's always been canon that the Orcs won the first war. This game takes place after the second, which they lost. Badly.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2020 17:21
|
|
|
Right. So I guess Doomhammer just went for the power play? There sure as hell was no Durotan in that game.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2020 17:23
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:So I guess Doomhammer just went for a power play? He had the backing of Gul'dan, and Blackhand was unambitious, according to the WC2 manual. E: Durotan was indeed never mentioned in WC2, neither was Thrall or even the Frostwolf clan.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2020 17:24
|
|
|
Yo, the sound effects to Thrall’s transformation were so grotesque it went back to being hilarious. His dwarf accent is great too!
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2020 17:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 5, 2024 06:04 |
|
|
anilEhilated posted:Is there a canon on that? I'm honestly not sure since all the online sources now have gone through a billion retcons. Before WC1: 1.) Gul'dan and the human wizard Medivh work together to open the Dark Portal so Orcs can leave Draenor and go to Azeroth. Medivh promises to help Gul'dan reach the Tomb of Sargeras, which has all sorts of cool magic and forbidden knowledge and etc. Orcs are currently split into multiple factions; all agree to conquer the new world but no unified leadership. 2.) Orcs immediately attack a major human city. Due to their tactical disagreements, attack is a disaster. Multiple leaders blame each other for loving it up, potential for civil war looms. 3.) To stop the infighting, Gul'dan puts up Blackhand as a puppet leader to rule the Horde and uses his magic/influence behind the scenes to get everyone else to fall in line. First War (WC1) 1.) Orcs attempt to conquer the country of Azeroth, which is the strongest human nation. Orcs generally kick rear end and win battles, aided by Gul'dan's magic. Medivh is also working behind the scenes to topple Azeroth. 2.) Right near the end of the First War, humans realize Medivh is a traitor and assault his tower. Gul'dan worries Medivh might die before giving him the location of the Tomb, so he uses magical mind-reading to try to steal the information directly from Medivh's brain. Gul'dan gets the information, but is still inside Medivh's brain when Medivh's physical body is killed, so Gul'dan ends up in a magic coma. 3.) While Guldan is in his magic coma, Doomhammer assassinates Blackhand, seizes power over the Horde. 4.) Guldan wakes up to the new leadership and agrees to continue to serve under Doomhammer. Gul'dan is more interested in the Tomb than anything else, but pretends to be a loyal supporter of Doomhammer. Second War (WC2): 1.) Doomhammer and the Horde attack Lordareon. Alliance is formed to stop the Orcs. 2.) War generally goes well for the Horde; depending on the source, they're either clearly winning or just slightly winning. 3.) Gul'dan betrays the Horde, taking several major clans away from the front lines and basically starting a civil war. 4.) Doomhammer takes his forces and kills Gul'dan and most of his allies, but have lost their momentum and tons of troops. 5.) Due to Gul'dan's treachery, Alliance wins the Second War overwhelmingly and imprisons most of the remaining Orcs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2020 18:56
|
|
