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Peanut President posted:Direct democracy loving blows. California has a limited form of it and they voted to ban gay marriage twice. Direct democracy is also what legalized gay marriage in most states, and weed as well. And regained felons the right to vote in Florida. It can be a powerful tool to override a corrupt congress if done well.
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Aug 27, 2020 21:23
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Mooseontheloose posted:I will say living in Massachusetts, the town meeting model is loaded with problems not least of which is that it favors older white men to make decisions for the town despite being the cloest analogue to direct democracy in the United States. Sure in theory everyone can come and vote on town issues but realistically given that meetings are at night after work and goes on for hours closes decision making to most people. To be fair this is an issues with regular elections as well. In the digital age these things should be more feasible.
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Aug 30, 2020 20:05
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karthun posted:What states legalized gay marriage via a direct referendum? Maine, Maryland, and Washington. Admittedly "most" was an extremely poor use of wording but pretty much anything positive that has come out of politics over the past fifteen years has been due to referendums. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Aug 31, 2020 |
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Aug 31, 2020 18:00
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karthun posted:More states passed bans of gay marriage via direct referendum then legalization of it. Are you considering legislation passed by state legislatures to be direct democracy? I edited my post above. To add on to it. The issue with direct democracy is just like with democracy, it's a double edge sword in how much you can get people active in positive change. There is clearly a hunger for it as so many elections result in "why do bad people keep getting elected if good referendums pass?" Such as the minimum wage increases and voting rights reforms.
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Aug 31, 2020 18:06
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Mooseontheloose posted:Sure but at least elections are 12 hours long and have alternative ways of voting. Why can't direct democracy adopt this? Not everything has to go by Roberts Rules.
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Aug 31, 2020 18:51
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karthun posted:You are only looking at recent referendums if you think that "good" ones are the ones that pass. Prop 13, TABOR, Right to Work referendums have all been incredibly harmful. The State of Washington has a hosed up tax system because of a hosed up constitutional amendment passed 90 years ago. I honestly think that all of "67% to raise taxes, 50% +1 to lower them" initiatives/laws/amendments are an existential threat to citizens of the State and the only way those are getting passed is through direct democracy. Making it that you have to have more support in order to raise taxes than to lower them is inherently undemocratic. Direct Democracy is just that, democracy. There are positive and negatives outcomes just like with representative aspects of democracy. I could bring up how in Oregon referendums were recently used for tax increases, or how local and state governments are constantly passing harmful corporate legislation due to ALEC and other corporate interests. The issue is that the left isn't pushing for referendums like card checks, home zoning, and other aspects. The heart of America's political problems is the lack of political action from the left which has only recently started to gradually rectify.
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Aug 31, 2020 21:38
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karthun posted:Your example on the Oregon referendum brings up my point perfectly. Measure 79 was an expression of direct democracy and removed the power of the State to fund itself in effective ways. I am concerned that now you feel that the voters needing to authorize new taxes as a healthy expression of direct democracy. It is the exact opposite. Again you can say the exact same thing about representative democracy. People constantly vote for politicians who enact harmful policies to them just to elect those later in an attempt (that typically fails) to fix those problems said initial politicians created. The issue is that the left in Oregon has to continue working as they are to overturn the measure of vote for something new to replace it that is even more effective.
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Aug 31, 2020 22:39
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:My problem with the whole "liquid democracy" idea is that it'd inevitably get all the recessive genes and develop a bizarre undying hatred of its brother, solid democracy What do you think about solidus democracy?
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Sep 1, 2020 00:43
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What do you all think of participatory budgeting?
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Sep 5, 2020 20:06
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Mooseontheloose posted:You're still going to have the participation problem. But participatory budgeting has been very successful for Porto Alegre and in parts of South Africa. In terms of participation, again, this is something that effects democracy in general and an issue we have right now as most people making under $30,000 a year don't vote. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Sep 7, 2020 |
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Sep 7, 2020 21:31
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As I said before, changing voting thresholds should be illegal.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:27
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Crumbskull posted:Friendly reminder thay societies that practice economic democracy, e.g. co-operatively own and operate enterprises and public assets have significanty higher rates of democratic participation. It's like when you give people more control and power over their own lives they will in turn participate and educate themselves more in order to better their lives and society.
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Sep 25, 2020 21:26
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OneEightHundred posted:California's ballot propositions are a nice microcosm of the best and worst of direct democracy. On one hand, it broke up the state gerrymander. On the other, God help you if you suggest that people reaping massive home value windfalls should maybe pay some property tax. California just seems really dumb. Ballot propositions did great everywhere this election but there. Here in Oregon the propositions did more to enforce left wing politics than the do nothing Dems.
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Nov 14, 2020 22:29
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BougieBitch posted:I'd say it's a pretty mixed bag everywhere, here in MA we had people vote against ranked-choice voting, so it seems to me that people are perfectly capable of hanging themselves with the lifeline you throw them any time you try something more complicated than "legalize weed" or "raise the minimum wage". Obviously those are worthwhile goals to pursue, but it's pretty clear that people aren't able to engage with stuff that can't be summarized in a sentence Like anything else in politics what has to be done is to get the message out. Ranked choice voting isn't likely to come via congress.
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Nov 15, 2020 08:29
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