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Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
Shadow Empires needs to be added to space but still on a planet category.

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Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009

pedro0930 posted:

Put Sword of the Stars on there for the what a shame factor.

I like EL more than ES. Mostly due to the combat. In EL you can design your unit and think up a tactic or role you want your unit to play. Some of the faction's unit line up can result in very diverse army play style. In ES I feel it's such a waste to have so many systems and art asset tied into something that's so hands off. Space 4X really need to think up a more interesting combat system than laser counter shield and kinetic counter armor.

SotS (the first of course) is still quite playable I think.

Also Distant Worlds should be in here.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
It's kind of pretty and thematic, but even by 4x standards the AI is, uhh abysmal.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
I mean if we're talking only ship designers, then rule the waves surely claims the crown, but then it is a game built around a ship designer, rather than the other way around.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
Yeah CoE is very much janky might and magic with a huge ton of extra planes of reality and stuff, but it's still trying to be sort of casual and quick to play. Dominions is a full blown grog wargame that just happens to be set in a fantasy universe.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
Shadow empires is grognar Sod 4x, hex based wargame built off the popular (by grog standards) Decisive Campaigns games, and it's loving fantastic if that's at all your thing.

It has:
Incredible procedural planet generation
In-depth and reasonable engaging internal and external politics
Large tech tree that plays into unit designer for tanks and even guns
Advanced, grog standard logistics system
Customisable toes for units requiring different operational concepts to be researched and then implemented by you high command
Detailed character system staffing said high command, as well as various research, intelligence/security and economic councils

And probably other stuff I'm forgetting. Either you're going to love it or hate it really.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
Most 4xes end up feeling dead and soulless, because of course a computer game can't replicate a living universe. But Gal Civ is the deadest of the lot.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009

Jack Trades posted:

Do majority of 4X players actually like ship/unit designer features?
Maybe I'm the outlier but I haven't actually played a Space 4X where I didn't feel like the Ship Designer was just a pointless waste of time.

If we count RTW as a 4X, which technically it probably is, then yes.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009
I forget what the trick was, was it max overboosting research then sacking all your scientists or something? Doing that with the spoiler out of spite never got old, it's almost dominions level of gently caress you all if I'm going down.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009

ate poo poo on live tv posted:

What? This thread is about 4x games and I'm discussing the design aspect. My claim is that grand menaces or coin-flip events are bad design. The specific implementation that SotS used isn't really what I'm arguing about.

But the specific implementation in SotS is good you dingus. That's what everyone is getting annoyed with you about.

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Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009

Rappaport posted:

Honestly, I like the goofier aspects of 4X games even if it isn't great world-building. Just give me the space lizards, the space cats and the space birds and have them all hate each other. It's a shame that none of the Master of Orion games got very far in giving them personalities, other than the space lizards being right bastards who have to be killed on sight, but either way, you know where you are with space lizards and space cats.

I found the SotS races to be quite flavourful and distinct, which was definitely helped by them each having unique FTL methods.

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