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That Dharma focused ARG between seasons 2 and 3 was technically canon with the writers involved but the ARG between seasons 3 and 4 about some boat ending with the finding the wreckage of the plane was done by ABC without writer involvement IIRC. Then between 4 and 5 there was some Camp Dharma thing I can’t remember.
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May 20, 2021 02:59
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The Dharma recruitment thing ended almost immediately because of the 2008 market crash. It’s sad, because the point seemed to be to use time travel to save Marvin Candle/orientation video guy from getting killed.
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May 20, 2021 03:05
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Pierre Chang.
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May 20, 2021 11:02
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It’s been fun reading up on the ARGs. https://lostpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dharma_booth_video This claims the Pierre Chang and Daniel Faraday plot point of contacting the future to prevent the Purge originally was canonical, but the showrunners came up with a different storyline for Faraday. So yes you’re right it’s kinda a shame. I speculate Faraday would have accidentally caused a causal loop and ensured the Purge happened. You know, what actually played out in season 5 when our time traveling heroes essentially set the Purge motion by sending child Ben to the Others to save his life.
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May 20, 2021 13:35
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A fantasy baseball podcast I listen to actually spent a few minutes talking about LOST. One of the hosts recently watched Lost for the first time answer enjoyed it, but was let down by the ending and dropped plot lines. One of the analysts who watched LOST back in the day most agreed. He theorized the show wasn’t planned and written coherently enough that the audience was bound to latch on to anything to hate. The show left us with a general lukewarm and unsatisfied feeling that threatened to make the 6 years of watching it seem like a waste of time so it was preferable to tell yourself to hate the ending.
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May 26, 2021 18:26
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The ending was the best that could be done after a season 6 that spun its wheels wasting time.
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May 26, 2021 18:32
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Lost was a pretty good transitional form from standard network tv at the turn of the century and the prestige format that was filtering down from HBO into regular tv and cable. It was probably the first time anyone making a tv show fought for fewer episodes a season. It and Battlestar Galactica seem like important experiments in what network shows can and can’t do once audience expectations start going up and people stop just watching broadcast tv because that’s all they’ve got.
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May 26, 2021 18:36
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JJ Abrams admits it’s better to have a plan written ahead of time in a recent interview talking about the Disney Star Wars trilogy. I can’t imagine what other experiences this would apply to https://collider.com/jj-abrams-star-wars-sequel-trilogy-plan-comments/
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May 26, 2021 20:28
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Was JJ involved past season 1?
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May 26, 2021 20:29
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Lost was a pretty good transitional form from standard network tv at the turn of the century and the prestige format that was filtering down from HBO into regular tv and cable. It was probably the first time anyone making a tv show fought for fewer episodes a season. It and Battlestar Galactica seem like important experiments in what network shows can and can’t do once audience expectations start going up and people stop just watching broadcast tv because that’s all they’ve got. Battlestar Galactica also had a final season and ending not everyone was thrilled with
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May 26, 2021 20:29
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Was JJ involved past season 1? I was being cheeky. I’m glad you asked that question as it forced me to look it up. It’s a legitimate question because I’m as guilty as anyone for thinking it’s his show even though really Carlton and Cuse have a better claim to that. IMDB shows he was still credited as executive producer through season 5. I know that doesn’t tell us much. He has a co-writing credit on the Season 3 premier “A Tale of Two Cities” and 1 of the Verizon Wireless shorts “The Envelope.” Lostpedia says the short probably is a deleted scene from the premier so your mileage may vary there. Lostpedia references him trying to write more Season 3 episodes and possibly direct again but nothing else is officially credited. I guess his direct role past season 3 is nonexistent. It also references an offer to direct “The End” but he turned it down thinking others deserved the honor (choose your own adventure there).
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May 26, 2021 20:47
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LaptopGun posted:JJ Abrams admits it’s better to have a plan written ahead of time in a recent interview talking about the Disney Star Wars trilogy. I can’t imagine what other experiences this would apply to Man forced to write an ending for the first time in his life realizes that writing endings is hard. Well I'm glad that after 20 years in the entertainment industry, JJ has finally seemingly learned that you can't just ADHD your way through every project and then bounce when something new strikes your fancy.
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May 26, 2021 21:09
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I like your analysis better than mine! 
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May 27, 2021 01:45
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Making things from start to finish isn't really JJ's job. Kevin Smith pretty regularly tells a story on his podcast about how he was askin' JJ what his secret was to getting so many projects picked up by studios and networks and his response was, basically, "I pitch all the time. You don't see most of the things because nobody buys them. I just pitch and develop non-stop." So that's more JJ's job. He doesn't have to direct ever again, so when he does it, I imagine it's because the project is contingent on him doing so or because he actually wants to.
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Jul 19, 2021 04:50
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I'm glad that this show aired on a weekly basis back then. Because I'm rewatching this on an episode per day basis, and oh boy, first season Sawyer is even more insufferable on that schedule.
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May 9, 2022 20:26
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I gave up on Lost in season 4 many years ago and I’m finally trudging through it. Just to finish it I guess Anyway I know I’m wasting my time but well Into season 5 and they’re all (?) back on the island and it’s 1977. Locke seems to be awol for the last episode I watched
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Jul 13, 2022 09:01
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https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/05/lost-tv-show-culture Huh. So it turns out that Lost was just an absolutely disgustingly toxic place to work at every level driven in large part by with monstrously racist and power-mad pieces of poo poo Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse were.
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May 31, 2023 07:26
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Lindelof comes off a tinier bit better there, but it's embarrassing to read Cuse's responses. You can say that you would never say X or Y to a writer, but you did. So now what? The only thing I will sort of side with them on is that I bet every cast member was on at them after Season 1 about how they want more to do. Though I think it's ultimately dumb, they clearly didn't want to do anything with Walt given that the actor hit a growth spurt and so it makes sense that they sideline his old man too. Again, I think it's kinda dumb but I can see how as writers you'd arrive at that decision. It's wild to read that though and not even get into the on set stuff.
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May 31, 2023 10:40
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There were plenty of work arounds for Walt aging. Oh no, Walt died. Oh no, Walt was sent back to the mainland in exchange for Michael turning traitor. Oh no, Walt is growing fast because of magic. (They even touched on this one with "taller ghost Walt".) Time skip, or just having time unfold at a regular TV speed etc. etc. Or they could just ignore it. Plenty of other dumb poo poo happens on the island that we're asked to suspend disbelief over, I don't see this being all that different tbh. Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 11:40 on May 31, 2023 |
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May 31, 2023 11:31
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Yeah if they didn't have a plan to account for the fact that children sometimes grow quickly, they shouldn't have put so much focus on him in the first two seasons or implied that he was a big deal.
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May 31, 2023 11:45
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I have a really hard time separating out my Lindelof bias, especially after just finishing Mrs. Davis. It does sound like he was new to leading and looked to Cuse to be the mentor/adult in the room and that just wasn’t the case. Since Lost he’s written some really strong characters that are people of color so maybe that’s intentionally or subconsciously some type of atonement for him.
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May 31, 2023 13:05
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nine-gear crow posted:https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/05/lost-tv-show-culture That sucks but it's not exactly shocking. Lot of similar folks working in Hollywood. I should rewatch the show.
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May 31, 2023 13:22
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The Dave posted:I have a really hard time separating out my Lindelof bias, especially after just finishing Mrs. Davis. It does sound like he was new to leading and looked to Cuse to be the mentor/adult in the room and that just wasn’t the case. Since Lost he’s written some really strong characters that are people of color so maybe that’s intentionally or subconsciously some type of atonement for him. To give the benefit of the doubt he at least seems to have tried to be better. He pushed for WATCHMEN to be more diverse in the writers room and took a back seat to others. It's how they ended up with the Tulsa stuff. I would presume that whoever he was then isn't the person he is now, but that doesn't mean people weren't hurt by your actions either. The sidelining of your characters (while POC on the cast suffered, so did pretty much everyone once they decided on the central three) is particularly galling once you get to the end. Yes I know all faiths are supposed to be represented there, but it's still very white focused. The man's name is Christian Shepherd for God's sake.
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May 31, 2023 13:29
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DrVenkman posted:The man's name is Christian Shepherd for God's sake. Yeah we probably shoulda seen that one coming.
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May 31, 2023 13:56
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DrVenkman posted:The sidelining of your characters (while POC on the cast suffered, so did pretty much everyone once they decided on the central three) is particularly galling once you get to the end. Sun and Jin's death scene. lmdabo
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May 31, 2023 13:58
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Open Source Idiom posted:Sun and Jin's death scene. lmdabo It's been a minute but aren't Sun, Jin, and Sayid, the three remaining non-white cast members, killed off in the space of five minutes? That excerpt is brutal for Harold Perrineau. I rewatched Lost maybe two years ago and he is doing such strong work in the first season. Some of it is the writing (the scene where Walt tries to show up Michael by asking when his birthday is, Michael answers immediately and then asks if Walt knows his birthday is great), but even in the second season where the writing is doing all it can to annihilate his character Harold remains compelling. What a loving waste of a great actor.
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May 31, 2023 18:32
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Rochallor posted:It's been a minute but aren't Sun, Jin, and Sayid, the three remaining non-white cast members, killed off in the space of five minutes? I was actually watching a behind the scenes video the other day and Calrton Cuse said that when they'd picked their final six or so survivors they decided that half of them weren't going to survive because wanted to make sure people took The Man In Black seriously as an antagonist so they'd have him kill half the remaining cast in short order. ...And then all of his victims just turned out to be people of colour for some reason  Even back when I was watching the show, some of the stuff they came up with for Michael felt insanely spiteful and I'd wondered if Harold Perrineau had done something to piss off the writers or showrunners and now I know he in fact did: he was black and he asked questions.
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May 31, 2023 18:37
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The worst part of that article is Cruse being giddy about killing Mr Eko in a way that was like a lynching. Like what the gently caress?
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May 31, 2023 23:28
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Rochallor posted:It's been a minute but aren't Sun, Jin, and Sayid, the three remaining non-white cast members, killed off in the space of five minutes? It's not even that, it's that they forget about their daughter when Jin commits suicide to die with Sun (which after all the drama with Sun's abusive parents who are raising the kid, lmao). And it's also that they say goodbyes to each other in Korean, up until the end when they swap to English to say "I love you" because it's more meaningful or a capstone to their arcs or whatever. It's super loving racist.
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Jun 1, 2023 01:15
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Even to this day I still have it burned into my brain: WALLLLT WAAAAALLLLTTTT WAALLLLLLLTTTTT
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Jun 1, 2023 03:50
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I wonder if anyone still has a copy of that song someone here made that was mostly sampling of Michael yelling “Walt”?
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Jun 1, 2023 03:57
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That is so unbelievably disappointing. gently caress Carlton Cuse. I hope Lindeloff has changed as much as it seems, but for that behavior, gently caress him too.
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Jun 1, 2023 05:19
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LividLiquid posted:That is so unbelievably disappointing. By most accounts Damon Lindelof has worked his rear end off in the nearly 20 years since Lost ended to try and be a better person and a better showrunner or at least that's what he's trying to present as his side of the story. Carlton Cuse is the one defiantly going "No, that never happened, they're all lying." which is basically proof positive that it all did happen, especially considering the multiple corroborating sources that said the poo poo that happened in that article happened. Every single behind the scenes thing I've seen of Cuse makes him look like a domineering, vindictive rear end in a top hat, so I had little trouble buying what was being said about him.
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Jun 1, 2023 05:53
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I AM GRANDO posted:I wonder if anyone still has a copy of that song someone here made that was mostly sampling of Michael yelling “Walt”? Here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmvj1UzWyvg
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Jun 1, 2023 08:50
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This goes hard.
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Jun 1, 2023 09:09
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nine-gear crow posted:By most accounts Damon Lindelof has worked his rear end off in the nearly 20 years since Lost ended to try and be a better person and a better showrunner or at least that's what he's trying to present as his side of the story. Carlton Cuse is the one defiantly going "No, that never happened, they're all lying." which is basically proof positive that it all did happen, especially considering the multiple corroborating sources that said the poo poo that happened in that article happened. There was someone on Reddit claiming that they heard directly from someone who worked as a writer on WATCHMEN that he hasn't changed at all, but it just read as someone trolling to me. I know people are frustrated by some of Lindelof's non answers or saw him as trying to be evasive but to be fair you're asking someone to remember conversations from like 20 years ago and I'm sure there's a lot - good and bad - that he isn't going to remember. However at least he acknowledges that listen, I don't remember it but I also don't have any reason to think that people are just making poo poo up about me. Cuse is just flat denial from top to bottom.
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Jun 1, 2023 09:16
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While the entire thrust and research of the article was absolutely masterful, I did find it weird that Lindeloff said he would way rather be a decent person than a great creator, and to me that read as a regret-filled mea culpa, but the writer painted it as a false dichotomy as if he was saying you could only be one of the two, but it very much seemed to me that he was saying he'd trade all his accolades for not having hurt people. Which is what you want when you confront somebody with their loving atrocious behavior. Did I read that moment all wrong?
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Jun 1, 2023 20:50
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LividLiquid posted:While the entire thrust and research of the article was absolutely masterful, I did find it weird that Lindeloff said he would way rather be a decent person than a great creator, and to me that read as a regret-filled mea culpa, but the writer painted it as a false dichotomy as if he was saying you could only be one of the two, but it very much seemed to me that he was saying he'd trade all his accolades for not having hurt people. I think both sides are valid there. Lindelof is saying he'd trade all his accolades to take back the harm he caused to other people while working on Lost, that is a genuine expression of contrition and should be honored as such. But the author is also right in saying that people can be great creators and decent people at the same time, and yes it IS a false dichotomy when Lindelof presents it that way as part of his mea culpa. Basically the only thing stopping Damon Lindelof from not being an rear end in a top hat while making Lost was Damon Lindelof, and he failed to meet that mark.
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Jun 1, 2023 20:54
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Javier Grillo-Marxuach's statement (writer from season 1 and 2) about the Vanity Fair article. Goes in two footed on Cuse. An interesting read for sure. http://okbjgm.weebly.com/uploads/3/1/5/0/31506003/final_statement.pdf
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Jun 2, 2023 11:32
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Heh, Dharmalars.
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Jun 2, 2023 11:36
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