whos worse. bush 2 or trump.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > whos worse. bush 2 or trump.

whos worse
	george bush jr
	trump
	obama

ClassActionFursuit: Mar 15, 2006

C-Euro posted:

They both suck rear end, the US has barely survived the last 12ish years of Republican presidents.

I guess I would say that Bush was worse in terms of foreign policy and Trump is worse in terms of domestic policy, but only because those were respectively the more visible parts of their presidencies.

If only a democrat had been elected somewhere in the middle of those 12 years of republican administration to undo the damage

# ? Jul 17, 2020 11:58

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# ? May 7, 2024 11:07

C-Euro: Mar 20, 2010; Soiled Meat

LastInLine posted:

If only a democrat had been elected somewhere in the middle of those 12 years of republican administration to undo the damage

Yeah it's a shame.

# ? Jul 17, 2020 13:37

docbeard: Jul 19, 2011

Stringent posted:

Fixed that for you.

I mean, Clinton was awful and Carter was also a president of the United States so probably bad, but worse than Reagan and Nixon? Take me there.

# ? Jul 17, 2020 13:46

Hatebag: Jun 17, 2008

Bush is responsible for 9/11 and the transition to overt fascism in the us, a few genocides, starting a multigenerational omni-war in the middle east, killing any possibility of mitigating climate change when it would have been possible, and crashing the economy for disaster capitalists to steal resources, which is bad. Trump is responsible for murdering a few hundred thousand to a few million americans (eventually), reducing the capability of the us to project power, and possibly the destruction of america, which is good.

# ? Jul 17, 2020 13:52

Stringent: Dec 22, 2004; image text goes here

docbeard posted:

I mean, Clinton was awful and Carter was also a president of the United States so probably bad, but worse than Reagan and Nixon? Take me there.

It was the Carter administration that effectively hamstrung any notion of the Democratic party continuing even a halfhearted defense of the American worker against capital. Carter's nominee to the Fed chairmanship famously said, "The standard of living of the average American has to decline." and the Carter administration went cheerfully about making that happen. Once Clinton rolled in he of course delivered the coup de grace with NAFTA, the crime bill and all the other means tested entitlement cuts and austerity we all know and love, but he was really just following the game plan that Carter laid out in his administration.

Reagan and Nixon were never anything other than servants of capital and the MIC. They never made any bones about it, you got what was on the label. It was Carter and Clinton that sold out any notion of representation for working people at the national level, all while lying through their teeth about whose interests they were in fact serving. That makes them far worse to my mind.

# ? Jul 18, 2020 07:07

ClassActionFursuit: Mar 15, 2006

Edit: ^^^

docbeard posted:

I mean, Clinton was awful and Carter was also a president of the United States so probably bad, but worse than Reagan and Nixon? Take me there.

Nixon:

Established EPA
Ended Vietnam
Wanted universal healthcare and UBI

Reagan:

Terrible in every way

---

Carter:

Ramped up and funded genocide in East Timor

Clinton:

Accomplished almost every republican policy goal of the post-Soviet era
Eliminated welfare
1994 crime bill/"three strikes"
Campaigned on stopping NAFTA and immediately signed it
Poisoned the well on healthcare for twenty years
Repealed Glass-Steagall

Clinton was more or less turbo Reagan minus the deficit spending. Hell, I'll defend Nixon as the best post war president, not that it's a high bar to clear. He might've been a terrible person who was extremely racist but he accomplished good things for the wrong reasons.

# ? Jul 18, 2020 14:45

PawParole: Nov 16, 2019

docbeard posted:

I mean, Clinton was awful and Carter was also a president of the United States so probably bad, but worse than Reagan and Nixon? Take me there.

Liberal poster.

Stringent posted:

It was the Carter administration that effectively hamstrung any notion of the Democratic party continuing even a halfhearted defense of the American worker against capital. Carter's nominee to the Fed chairmanship famously said, "The standard of living of the average American has to decline." and the Carter administration went cheerfully about making that happen. Once Clinton rolled in he of course delivered the coup de grace with NAFTA, the crime bill and all the other means tested entitlement cuts and austerity we all know and love, but he was really just following the game plan that Carter laid out in his administration.

Reagan and Nixon were never anything other than servants of capital and the MIC. They never made any bones about it, you got what was on the label. It was Carter and Clinton that sold out any notion of representation for working people at the national level, all while lying through their teeth about whose interests they were in fact serving. That makes them far worse to my mind.

Socialist poster

Don�t fall for the propaganda!

# ? Jul 18, 2020 15:18

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

C-Euro posted:

They both suck rear end, the US has barely survived the last 12ish years of Republican presidents.

I guess I would say that Bush was worse in terms of foreign policy and Trump is worse in terms of domestic policy, but only because those were respectively the more visible parts of their presidencies.

we've only had republican presidents since carter, op

also lmao dubya is responsible for poo poo like the hurricane katrina response, his domestic policy was very very visible

# ? Jul 18, 2020 19:34

MonsieurChoc: Oct 12, 2013; Every species can smell its own extinction.

We never talk about how HW was head of the CIA and then became President.

# ? Jul 18, 2020 19:37

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

MonsieurChoc posted:

We never talk about how HW was head of the CIA and then became President.

or how Zapata Oil was a CIA front

quote:

The company traces its origins to Zapata Petroleum Corporation, founded in 1953 by future U.S. President George H. W. Bush, along with his business partners John Overbey, Hugh Liedtke, Bill Liedtke, and Thomas J. Devine. Overbey was a "landman" skilled in scouting oil fields and obtaining drilling rights cheaply. Bush and Thomas J. Devine were oil-wildcatting associates.[5][better source needed] Their joint activities culminated in the establishment of Zapata Oil.[6] The company was named for Viva Zapata!, a 1952 biographical film starring Marlon Brando as Mexican revolutionary Emiliano Zapata.[7] The initial $1 million investment for Zapata was provided by the Liedtke brothers and their circle of investors, by Bush's father Prescott Bush and his maternal grandfather George Herbert Walker, and their family's circle of friends. Hugh Liedtke was named president, Bush was vice president; Overbey soon left.

According to a CIA internal memo dated November 29, 1975,[6] Zapata Petroleum began in 1953 through Bush's joint efforts with Thomas J. Devine, a CIA staffer who had resigned his agency position that same year to go into private business, but who continued to work for the CIA under commercial cover. Devine would later accompany Bush to Vietnam in late 1967 as a "cleared and witting commercial asset" of the agency, acted as his informal foreign affairs advisor, and had a close relationship with him through 1975.[8]

In 1954, Zapata Off-Shore Company was formed as a subsidiary of Zapata Oil, with Bush as president of the new company. He raised some startup money from Eugene Meyer, publisher of the Washington Post, and his son-in-law, Philip Graham.[9][10]

Zapata Off-Shore accepted an offer from an inventor, R. G. LeTourneau, for the development of a mobile but secure drilling rig. Zapata advanced him $400,000, which was to be refundable if the completed rig did not function, followed by an additional $550,000 together with 38,000 shares of Zapata Off-Shore common stock when it did.

The U.S. government began to auction off mineral rights to the Caribbean, the Gulf of Mexico, and islands off the Central American coast in 1954, and in the late 1950s and early 1960, Zapata Off-Shore concentrated its business in these areas.[11] In 1958, drilling contracts with the seven largest U.S. oil producers included wells 40 miles (64 km) north of Isabela, Cuba, near the island Cay Sal.

In 1959 Bush bought control of Zapata Off-Shore, funded with $800,000,[12] splitting Zapata Corporation into two independent companies with the Liedtkes still in control of Zapata Petroleum. Bush moved his offices and family that year from Midland, Texas to Houston for access to the Caribbean through the Houston Ship Channel.[13][better source needed] But although Zapata Offshore had only a few drilling rigs, Bush set up operations also in the Gulf of Mexico, the Persian Gulf, Trinidad, Borneo, and Medell�n, Colombia, and the Kuwait Shell Petroleum Development Company was among the company's clients.[14][better source needed]

In 1960, Jorge D�az Serrano of Mexico was put in touch with Bush by Dresser Industries. Dresser was owned by Prescott Bush's Yale friends Roland and W. Averell Harriman, and had been George H.W. Bush's first employer upon his graduation from Yale, giving him his start in both the oil business and the defense contractor business.[15][better source needed] Serrano and Bush created a new company, Perforaciones Marinas del Golfo, aka Permargo, in conjunction with Edwin Pauley of Pan American Petroleum, with whom Zapata had a previous offshore contract. The deal with Permargo is not mentioned in Zapata's annual reports, and SEC records are missing. In 1988, a Bush spokesman claimed that the deal lasted only from March to September 1960. However, Zapata sold the oil-drilling rig Nola I to Pemargo in 1964.[citation needed]

Zapata's filing records with the U.S.Securities and Exchange Commission are intact for the years 1955�1959, and again from 1967 onwards. However, records for the years 1960�1966 are missing. The commission's records officer stated that the records were inadvertently placed in a session file to be destroyed by a federal warehouse, and that a total of 1,000 boxes were pulped in this procedure. The destruction of records occurred either in October 1983 (according to the records officer), or in 1981 shortly after Bush became Vice President of the United States (according to, Wison Carpenter, a record analyst with the commission).[16]

During the Bay of Pigs invasion and the Cuban Missile Crisis, Zapata allowed its oil rigs to be used as listening posts.[17] In 1988, Barron's said Zapata was "a part time purchasing front for the [Central Intelligence Agency]."[17]

# ? Jul 18, 2020 19:46

babypolis: Nov 4, 2009

The Pussy Boss posted:

lol at trying to pin all the corona deaths on Trump. You think we get a national lockdown and massive government assistance under President Hillary Clinton, or [insert corporate-owned Democrat here]? Everyone wears masks and stays home in peace and harmony and we come together as a country to defeat the pandemic? lol nope.

somehow all the other neoliberal countries dont have such bad outbreaks. this is certainly a case where trumps complete incompetence has had a very negative effect.

also the only reason things got so bad with iran was trump breaking the iran deal. cant give him too much credit for chickening out at the very end

# ? Jul 18, 2020 19:58

babypolis: Nov 4, 2009

we really lucked out with trump being such a cowardly bitch tho. a little more backbone and i think we would have seen bloodshed on a scale never seen before

# ? Jul 18, 2020 20:33

Paranoid Peanut: Nov 13, 2009

Trump has been bad even before covid. Hth you fuckers

# ? Jul 18, 2020 20:52

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

Paranoid Peanut posted:

Trump has been bad even before covid. Hth you fuckers

sure, but is he worse than bush the lesser? clearly not

# ? Jul 18, 2020 21:15

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

LastInLine posted:

Clinton:

Accomplished almost every republican policy goal of the post-Soviet era
Eliminated welfare
1994 crime bill/"three strikes"
Campaigned on stopping NAFTA and immediately signed it
Poisoned the well on healthcare for twenty years
Repealed Glass-Steagall

Clinton was more or less turbo Reagan minus the deficit spending. Hell, I'll defend Nixon as the best post war president, not that it's a high bar to clear. He might've been a terrible person who was extremely racist but he accomplished good things for the wrong reasons.

clinton also supplied more arms than the entire cold war period to turkey in the 90s to genocide kurds, waged an imperialist war in kosovo based on lies, and effectively supported the haitian coup of his predecessor through his actual actions in spite of his bullshit words

# ? Jul 18, 2020 22:34

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

babypolis posted:

also the only reason things got so bad with iran was trump breaking the iran deal. cant give him too much credit for chickening out at the very end

democrats also almost unanimously voted to sanction iran in violation of the deal during the trump administration and probably want to bomb iran as much as john bolton

npr basically called trump a pussy for not bombing iran when he called off the military strikes

# ? Jul 18, 2020 22:36

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

i wouldnt give nixon credit for ending the vietnam war, since nixon publicly announced a massive expansion of the vietnam war in contradiction to his campaign promises, which resulted in mass nationwide student riots and burning down rotc buildings which ended up in the national guard and cops murdering students at kent state and other locations

# ? Jul 18, 2020 22:39

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY: Feb 3, 2006

MonsieurChoc posted:

We never talk about how HW was head of the CIA and then became President.

I love to bring it up, it's really hosed up.

# ? Jul 18, 2020 23:35

Jewel Repetition: Dec 24, 2012; Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.

babypolis posted:

somehow all the other neoliberal countries dont have such bad outbreaks. this is certainly a case where trumps complete incompetence has had a very negative effect.

also the only reason things got so bad with iran was trump breaking the iran deal. cant give him too much credit for chickening out at the very end

It's not Trump, it's our population. If Hillary had been president we'd have just as many people not wearing masks

# ? Jul 19, 2020 01:07

Algund Eenboom: May 4, 2014

Donald Trump is worse than George W. Bush

# ? Jul 19, 2020 01:12

Stringent: Dec 22, 2004; image text goes here

mlyp

# ? Jul 19, 2020 02:24

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Algund Eenboom posted:

Donald Trump is worse than George W. Bush

just because you keep repeating it won't make it true

# ? Jul 19, 2020 02:44

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

absolutely pathetic

# ? Jul 19, 2020 02:52

Stringent: Dec 22, 2004; image text goes here

mlyp

# ? Jul 19, 2020 03:11

animist: Aug 28, 2018

blink twice if you're being held hostage by rachel maddow algund

# ? Jul 19, 2020 03:12

Jewel Repetition: Dec 24, 2012; Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G92AB8ZG7xY

New rule!

Algund Eenboom posted:

Donald Trump is worse than George W. Bush

# ? Jul 19, 2020 03:30

ClassActionFursuit: Mar 15, 2006

comedyblissoption posted:

i wouldnt give nixon credit for ending the vietnam war, since nixon publicly announced a massive expansion of the vietnam war in contradiction to his campaign promises, which resulted in mass nationwide student riots and burning down rotc buildings which ended up in the national guard and cops murdering students at kent state and other locations

I would agree with this on the basis that it's not like it was possible to further pretend we were going to win in Vietnam. The thing that makes me still give Nixon credit is that we passed that point a long time ago in Afghanistan and Iraq and we're still there.

I'll reiterate that I don't believe Nixon to have been a good man, I simply give him credit for having done some good things for bad reasons.

Also thanks for the reminders of all the other bad things Clinton did. I can't believe I forgot Kosovo.

# ? Jul 19, 2020 11:28

Stringent: Dec 22, 2004; image text goes here

Compromise position: Nixon was better than Obama.

# ? Jul 19, 2020 11:38

hallebarrysoetoro: Jun 14, 2003

Stringent posted:

Compromise position: Nixon was better than Obama.

nixon was worse because of pinochet, reprisal bombing campaigns against vietnamese, hating paul newman, supporting israel as a client state of america, codified race based voting, began to dismantle the usps, had a dog named checkers (???) and in general was what a trump administration would look like with any shred of competency

# ? Jul 19, 2020 12:22

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

comedyblissoption posted:

democrats also almost unanimously voted to sanction iran in violation of the deal during the trump administration and probably want to bomb iran as much as john bolton

npr basically called trump a pussy for not bombing iran when he called off the military strikes

Trump calling off strikes on Iran due to proportionality and civilian casualties is, and I cannot stress this enough, loving UNPRECEDENTED in like 40+ years of US foreign policy?

Nixon put Kissinger in the white house, and for that alone he deserves eternal damnation.

# ? Jul 19, 2020 12:26

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Orange Devil posted:

Trump calling off strikes on Iran due to proportionality and civilian casualties is, and I cannot stress this enough, loving UNPRECEDENTED in like 40+ years of US foreign policy?

I wonder where it puts him relative to NATO leaders in general during the same period, or more narrowly, post-9/11 leaders. Like, he has to be in the better half in terms of personal foreign policy for post-9/11 leaders, he's just handicapped by being at the head of the empire while all the minor shitheads don't have the ability to start poo poo.

# ? Jul 19, 2020 12:59

Terror Sweat: Mar 15, 2009

Trump vetoed Bernie Sanders bill to stop funding the Yemeni genocide. That's pretty bad

# ? Jul 19, 2020 16:19

docbeard: Jul 19, 2011

I think we can all agree that the best president was David Rice Atchison (in that he (a) was president for only a day and (b) was probably not technically the president at all).

# ? Jul 19, 2020 17:14

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Terror Sweat posted:

Trump vetoed Bernie Sanders bill to stop funding the Yemeni genocide. That's pretty bad

yah but obama started the political and military support of the genocide which is far worse hth

# ? Jul 19, 2020 23:06

babypolis: Nov 4, 2009

comedyblissoption posted:

democrats also almost unanimously voted to sanction iran in violation of the deal during the trump administration and probably want to bomb iran as much as john bolton

npr basically called trump a pussy for not bombing iran when he called off the military strikes

iirc that was because it somehow got entangled with some dumb russiagate bs. still pretty bad ofc, but id wager most dems supported the iran deal and there wouldnt be a raeson to mess around with it in a hillary presidency

Jewel Repetition posted:

It's not Trump, it's our population. If Hillary had been president we'd have just as many people not wearing masks

thats after 3 years of being emboldened by trump tho. now you could say that 3 years of hillary hate gets the same result, and you could be right, but i dont think covid turns into a whole cultural issue without trump. all of this is a reaction to how mismanaged everything has been, trying to minimize the problem, imo

# ? Jul 20, 2020 00:02

MoaM: Dec 1, 2009; Joyous.

the girth of trump's incompetence penetrates the sinister depths of bush2's admin

ted cruz raises his head and lets out a squeaky moan

# ? Jul 20, 2020 00:07

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

babypolis posted:

but i dont think covid turns into a whole cultural issue without trump

lol someone forgot freedom fries

# ? Jul 20, 2020 00:11

Peanut President: Nov 5, 2008; by Athanatos

Stringent posted:

Compromise position: Nixon was better than Obama.

i'll one up you here: hoover was better than obama

# ? Jul 20, 2020 00:41

Stringent: Dec 22, 2004; image text goes here

babypolis posted:

thats after 3 years of being emboldened by trump tho. now you could say that 3 years of hillary hate gets the same result, and you could be right, but i dont think covid turns into a whole cultural issue without trump. all of this is a reaction to how mismanaged everything has been, trying to minimize the problem, imo

That really sums up half the problem right there. Liberals are so out of touch with the population at large they honestly believe that Trump is driving all this stuff on the right instead of just reflecting it. There is a very literal one to one correlation between MSNBC and Fox News in that the people who listen to them do not listen to anything else, not even their own lived experience of the world.

# ? Jul 20, 2020 01:45

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# ? May 7, 2024 11:07

babypolis: Nov 4, 2009

Stringent posted:

That really sums up half the problem right there. Liberals are so out of touch with the population at large they honestly believe that Trump is driving all this stuff on the right instead of just reflecting it. There is a very literal one to one correlation between MSNBC and Fox News in that the people who listen to them do not listen to anything else, not even their own lived experience of the world.

i dont think ive ever watched msnbc in my life so i have no idea what the gently caress you are going on about here

its entirely possible people would just respond to a mask mandate from a clinton presidency with the same idiotic cries of tyranny out of a purely reactionary sentiment, but they also would have no incentive to minimize the scale of the problem. this is all conjecture of course so who the gently caress knows

# ? Jul 20, 2020 04:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > whos worse. bush 2 or trump.

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