|
if fauci didn’t lie about mask effectiveness in the beginning it wouldn’t have become such a political issue
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 04:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 7, 2024 11:10 |
|
|
and he woulda done that under clinton too
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 04:16
|
|
|
they are both completely execrable and have contributed to the death of america in otherwise unparalleled fashion which actually makes them both good, op
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 04:20
|
|
|
babypolis posted:i dont think ive ever watched msnbc in my life so i have no idea what the gently caress you are going on about here MSNBC and Fox were just a shorthand, the views that get placed there dribble throughout the sewer that is the American news media. The question is, where does the phrase "the right being emboldened by Trump" come from? What evidence have you seen of anyone doing anything in a sustained, real world manner because Trump is in office? Despite the media doing its damndest to tie everything to him, it looks to me like white supremacists are gonna white supremacist, anti vaxxers are gonna anti vaxx, and on down the list regardless of who the president is. The media just has a stake in you thinking who the president is matters so they can help launder what is actually causing people to act this way, i.e. capitalism. The one area where who the president is does matter, is in what actions they take and what policies they implement. An example might be coopting the American news media and the entirety (almost) of American elected officials into lying about a country having a stock of chemical weapons, staging an invasion which would lead to an occupation lasting decades and costing hundreds of thousands of innocent lives.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 04:56
|
|
|
fart simpson posted:if fauci didn’t lie about mask effectiveness in the beginning it wouldn’t have become such a political issue fart simpson posted:and he woulda done that under clinton too Half the country: "Fukc you, I'm not gonna let you white genocide me Killary" *Buys literally every type of PPE around until there's nothing left for medical personel*
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 05:31
|
|
|
Trump is the result of racist, reactionary warmongering, not the cause of it. Hatred of muslims, gays, and mexicans was repeatedly stirred up by the right wing in the 2000s. It's good for getting into office, and it's good for starting wars. All the neocons had been thirsting after Saddam for a decade, they wanted to take out all their old grudges in the middle east. "Seven countries in five years", that was the plan. But how could they get the country to commit to that? Well, 9/11 just happened, so let's get everybody mad at Muslims, and promise go blow some up! And it worked, in the beginning. We went to war. But the wars didn't really have a payoff. They turned into boring counterinsurgency slogs, too much "hearts and minds" to keep your average reactionary interested. Fearmongering about the gays, mexicans, etc, was similar. It's great for riling up the base to get elected. But when actually in office, Bush-II-era republicans would just do tax cuts and poo poo. Their base was left slavering for more. And then Obama got got elected. That was the end of the world for the right-wing base, they're terrified of black people. But Obama was a liberal, he believed in compromise. So to try and win Joe Republican over, Obama did poo poo like massively publicizing the killing of Bin Laden... Which spurred another massive wave of Islamophobia, just when it was dying down. American hatred of Muslims shot right back up to post-9-11 levels after that, if you look at opinion polls. Obama also massively ramped up deportations, etc. All this West Wing poo poo, trying to befriend the half of the country that wanted to burn him at the stake. So you have a bunch of mealy-mouthed politicians, feeding the flames of reactionary hatred, but not being willing to commit to anything beyond dog whistles. And the reactionaries are being driven insane, because even though the governing liberals are conceding to their economic demands, they're not giving them culture war poo poo like banning gay marriage. Plus, the right wing media apparatus was getting more and more overt in its racism -- because that drives ratings and clicks. Picture, like, 2014. The internet has metastasized and saturated society, traditional media is bleeding money like a stuck pig... except for Fox News. Bill O'Reilly, Hannity, etc, they kept boomers glued to their screen 8 hours a day. Nobody else could manage that. So they just get bolder and bolder, and leave the traditional Republican politicians further and further behind. then Trump comes down the elevator. He's a recognizable moron who says whatever dumb, vaguely racist poo poo comes into his head. That's precisely the mindset you need, to resonate with your average mouth-breathing reactionary. The liberal media loves to hate him, because he's so anathema to them. And he gets clicks, how could he not? Why do you think you see five headlines every day about whatever shocking stuff Trump said yesterday? It's not because anybody's actually surprised anymore. It's because that stuff drives engagement, which makes money. Right wingers love him, liberals hate him, everybody makes bank when the argument in the Facebook comments gets long enough to stick in more ads. And establishment politicians are powerless in front of him. You think Ted Cruz bringing out some debate club poo poo is gonna stand up to trump saying "We need to build a wall to keep the immigrants out"? No way, that's pure gold. But that's not Trump being some kind of corrupting influence -- an evil One Ring, seducing the freedom-loving American middle class to racism, destroying our traditional institutions and media. It's precisely the other way around. The institutions and the media stoked the flames of that racism, to make money and push policy goals. But they were too squeamish to really commit. Trump wasn't. So yeah, him and bush and obama are three nails sticking out of the side of the same club. animist has issued a correction as of 17:51 on Jul 20, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 05:49
|
|
|
Whatever you may think on the Trump v Bush scale, it's at least generally accepted that Cheney is about a trillion times worse than Pence, right? Right?
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 14:39
|
|
|
Hillary Clinton
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 17:19
|
|
|
animist posted:Trump is the result of racist, reactionary warmongering, not the cause of it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2020 22:33
|
|
|
LastInLine posted:Nixon: lol nixon technically ended vietnam but only after operation linebacker and the bombings of cambodia which vaporized tens of thousands of civilians. i don't personally buy the idea that he singlehandedly prolonged the war by sabotaging the 1968 peace talks but it's hardly like he was committed to vietnamese peace it's nice that he wanted universal healthcare and UBI; i hear obama wanted those things too. maybe we can just put that in both their columns you left out the obvious thing that nixon did that really was good (or at least hard to argue against) which was visiting china. normalizing chinese relations was probably the single most consequential thing he did. of course there's a good chance that ford or carter would've just done it anyway but still
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 00:16
|
|
|
I think everyone agrees fdr was the best president of the 20th century but who was second best? I've always liked ikes response to suez
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 00:43
|
|
|
Kennedy for his denouement
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 00:44
|
|
|
i say swears online posted:I think everyone agrees fdr was the best president of the 20th century but who was second best? I've always liked ikes response to suez lincoln
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 01:07
|
|
|
fart simpson posted:lincoln didn't that guy pardon a shitload of confederates and indirectly invent the kkk and create black oppression as we know it for the rest of the country's existence?
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 01:25
|
|
|
he freed the slaves op
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 01:33
|
|
|
Classon Ave. Robot posted:didn't that guy pardon a shitload of confederates tbf he did kill a quarter of a million of them before that
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 01:45
|
|
|
i say swears online posted:I think everyone agrees fdr was the best president of the 20th century but who was second best? I've always liked ikes response to suez 20th century? well.. teddy liked parks which is more than you can say for any president since lol like teddy also sucked but at least he was for killing germans, public spaces, parks, anti-monopoly, regulation of railroads and food industry. that alone by defacto makes him the second best 20th century president after fdr, and fdr wasn't even good he loved capitalism and hated socialists/communists but he was smart enough to acquiese Xaris has issued a correction as of 01:48 on Jul 21, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 01:46
|
|
|
Eisenhower's not a bad response, although I did always like how he spent his presidency building h-bombs and signing off on increasingly dangerous u-2 missions before closing things out with "MIC... bad?" he did rip poo poo up on the western front so you gotta give a little credit there, although arguably the western allies' material advantages made the outcome inevitable Little Rock was pretty cool I guess
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 02:16
|
|
|
fart simpson posted:he freed the slaves op did he free them or just have them go work for other white people though
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 02:18
|
|
|
who was the trump of the 19th century and who was the bush 2
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 02:20
|
|
|
Louis Philippe and....Metternich?
MoaM has issued a correction as of 02:43 on Jul 21, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 02:41
|
|
|
Classon Ave. Robot posted:did he free them or just have them go work for other white people though freed. during lincoln's reconstruction freed slaves could vote and were getting elected to public office. after he was killed johnson (a southerner) dismantled reconstruction and let them just go ham on the freed slaves.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 03:03
|
|
|
Stringent posted:freed. during lincoln's reconstruction freed slaves could vote and were getting elected to public office. after he was killed johnson (a southerner) dismantled reconstruction and let them just go ham on the freed slaves. I think they were referencing Kanye’s recent remarks about Harriet Tubman
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 03:04
|
|
|
indigi posted:I think they were referencing Kanye’s recent remarks about Harriet Tubman i categorically refuse to find out what this is
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 03:05
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 03:06
|
|
|
Stringent posted:i categorically refuse to find out what this is
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 05:46
|
|
|
Donald Trump is worse than George W. Bush
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 06:32
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:How are you going be able to have an informed opinion for the 'whos worse. obama or west.' thread with this attitude?
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 06:45
|
|
|
Hard choice. Trump probably wouldn't have gone into Iraq(that seemed more like a personal vendetta that Bush II had), but he definitely would have gone apeshit on Afghanistan. Killed a huge chunk of the population, set up a large scale occupation and concentration camps.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 12:28
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 12:32
|
|
|
GABA ghoul posted:Hard choice. Trump probably wouldn't have gone into Iraq(that seemed more like a personal vendetta that Bush II had), but he definitely would have gone apeshit on Afghanistan. Killed a huge chunk of the population, set up a large scale occupation and concentration camps. how do you reckon that?
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 12:37
|
|
|
forbidden dialectics posted:trumps melting brain is frankly harm reduction compared to the sheer brutal efficiency of evil that was the bush admin From the first page, still a good argument. The neolibs had a real machine in place. Trump has, what, the mook who used to be his caddy, who sends out freeper memes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 12:54
|
|
|
Stringent posted:how do you reckon that? A deranged, bloodthirsty and jingoistic public + An insane, narcissistic psychopath that has no concept of morality or empathy and doesn't care about the country, its future or people and only cares about ratings and polls = bloodbath It took the American public many years of killing brown people to get the deranged revenge fantasies out of its system. Trump would have totally delivered on them in ways Bush and Cheney couldn't even imagine
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 13:51
|
|
|
GABA ghoul posted:A deranged, bloodthirsty and jingoistic public get this: he didn’t and they did
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 14:07
|
|
|
Aglet56 posted:lol nixon technically ended vietnam but only after operation linebacker and the bombings of cambodia which vaporized tens of thousands of civilians. i don't personally buy the idea that he singlehandedly prolonged the war by sabotaging the 1968 peace talks but it's hardly like he was committed to vietnamese peace ofc he wasn't committed to vietnamese peace, but after the war was lost he did actually leave. I wouldn't have called that a positive until seeing how Iraq and Afghanistan has gone and welp, it has to count for something. (I actually do believe he sabotaged the 1968 talks) As for UBI and healthcare, I'm under the impression that at least the former was pretty close to getting somewhere. I'll still concede that close doesn't count, but he was definitely the last time there was the possibility of either. I'd consider the opening of China to be a bad thing. I find it difficult to believe anyone who considers themselves a leftist would see it in a positive light. I'd also consider it a matter of circumstance rather than an effort on his part. The opportunity was there and he took it, which I would expect a competent administration to do.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 14:32
|
|
|
GABA ghoul posted:A deranged, bloodthirsty and jingoistic public But enough about Obama.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 15:55
|
|
|
UBI was always a right-wing attack at the welfare state and it's honestly pretty sad that it's suddenly become the big alt-left rallying cry
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 16:01
|
|
|
would trump have pulled off 9/11 or would he have messed it up out of incompetence?
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 16:02
|
|
|
GABA ghoul posted:A deranged, bloodthirsty and jingoistic public Wait, you think the American public has the deranged revenge fantasies out of its system?
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 16:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 7, 2024 11:10 |
|
|
fart simpson posted:would trump have pulled off 9/11 or would he have messed it up out of incompetence? Well, Trump's reaction to the actual 9/11 was to brag that he had the tallest building in New York now, so probably both.
|
|
#
?
Jul 21, 2020 16:05
|
|