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I've only caught some reviews of this show so far, but I liked the tidbits of plot/tone that the reviews laid out so I may end up checking this out. I'm an absolute sucker for courtroom dramas though, so if they kept this reboot going and start heading more and more into that territory I'd really like it. I do know from the review that they take at least one very clear shot at the structure of the original show, so that's always fun. What people today might not recognize is just how insanely popular Perry Mason has been. The Perry Mason book series is the third best-selling book series of all time with more than 80 books. The original T.V. show had 271 episodes, and NBC eventually followed up that show with 30 T.V. movies. And since I haven't seen or read any of it, doing a Perry mason deep dive may be just the thing to do when I get bored and want to fill up roughly a full year of my life consuming those various media, assuming I find them interesting. Anyway, I bring up that level of past popularity mostly to point out that doing a hip reboot in a modern T.V. style seems like a very safe move, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they kept making them in a mini-series format, kind of a throwback to the serials of old. As much as I want more courtroom stuff as a general rule, catering to that noire style and going with this prequel smart is absolutely the way to go, both creatively and in terms of drawing in audience attention. I want Mason being an attorney and taking on a case to be treated like waiting for Bruce Wayne to become Batman in Gotham with a really kickass score coming in when that happens. Alright now I'm clearly thinking about this show too much, so I'll definitely check it out, probably without even waiting for the whole season to be out.
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Jul 2, 2020 01:45
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Land deals are definitely a spot on every Noir bingo card.
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Jul 6, 2020 19:21
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I finally started watching this show properly and it absolutely owns. I really hope we get further seasons, or further miniseries, because everybody's knocking it out of the park on this one. I don't even mind the completely obvious CGI when it shows up, it's kind of charming to see them recreate 30s environments with it. drat, if we do pivot into Perry taking over the case for the second half of the season it'll be basically the perfect show for my tastes. Half noir detective stuff and half lawyer who's also doing detective stuff, and we ought to get a real juicy trial too. I feel like E.B.'s actions will result in the bail money arriving. I was expecting that to lead to a misdirect, but as others have pointed out it's a perfect motivation for Mason to step in and lawyer the hell out of this. He might have resolved himself to do that at the moment he said he'd "Do what's best" since the D.A. had that past embezzling hanging over him, and another lawyer working on the case wouldn't have to deal with that. I'm so ready for a classic "broke the guy down on the stand" Perry Mason moment now too, that'd be satisfying as hell with a whole season's worth of cops being crooked to build up to it. Then the case gets Mason enough fame and press that he takes over E.B.'s office. I'd get a kick out of him calling his practice Perry Mason and associates too. I'm definitely expecting the Sister's resurrection prediction to be the result of them killing some other kid, and that Charlie's been snuck out to his grandfather or something like that. It's pretty easy to hand out ransom money when you're expecting most of it back in the end. And it's not a kidnapping gone wrong, it's a kidnapping gone right but someone's willing to kill a whole other kid just to make sure no one's looking for Charlie. Mason cracks the case, Charlie's found on Easter, and the Sister's got some legit conduit to god stuff going on, or can at least claim that she does. CeeJee posted:He's a jerk but seems to have nothing to do with the kidnapping and could be the most important ally for Mason once he gets some evidence on the real killers. A corrupt detective is a great fall guy for his false prosecution of the wrong people. Yeah Root's gonna be hard to convince, but once Mason throws a literal mountain of evidence on him about how she's innocent, and when Root realizes that despite all the fervor he's cooked up he's going to lose the case (probably because Mason broke down the husband on the stand), I think he'd be willing to listen to how Mason thinks a crooked detective was involved, and that'd be sensational enough to give the D.A. some cover for losing this high profile case. Oh, and I'm so, SO glad that Mason sold those photos he had to the tabloids. Screw that film studio, go and get paid Mason! Maybe we'll get a scene with film studio thugs and the detectives showing up to mess with Mason at the same time, that'd be fun. After how much he's been kicked around so far, I'd also enjoy him laying in wait on his property and holding up a few people who show up trying to beat him up, it'd be nice to see him ahead of the game on that front for a change. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 13:30
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AFewBricksShy posted:I think the studio released those. They didn’t want the shots of the girl he was with released to the press because she was their next big thing. They wanted dirt on not-fatty-arbuckle. Oh dang, yeah that makes a lot more sense. Ah well, I hope he ends up getting one over on the film studio one way or another before the end of this series. I think I'd buy general grief as a reason for her not recognizing her kid, personally that's not a big hurdle for me. I definitely have some big non-parent bias of "all little kids look the same" going on though. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Jul 17, 2020 |
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Jul 17, 2020 03:06
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Fun to think that the D.A. on the original show knew about Mason's shady origins and helped him cheat to pass the bar, and then just kind of went with it while Mason presumably kept going head to head with him in court. Maybe they reach a kind of truce on that after Mason helps sink the current D.A. I wonder just how much of this was in the books and how much they're making up, because this is making Mason into just a ridiculously compelling character, and I'd love to see him being a combination lawyer and detective in future seasons set in this time period. I also really like that we assumed Mason had a decent law background, but nope he's just gonna wing it and still kick rear end because the D.A. has freakin nothing, although I guarantee Mason's gonna have some piece of damning evidence tossed at him out of nowhere at the trial. I also like that they've kept the same bar exam for what, a decade? It's pretty funny to think about America not taking that poo poo super seriously when it takes a massive education and I'm sure a much more complicated test now to be a lawyer. Drake's wife changed her mind too quick for my tastes, but then again we gotta keep things zipping along so you can't really do a slow burn on that. I guess I can buy that when the racism was properly directed at her and her husband she just decided "Yeah, screw Caesar you go get some justice for whoever you can." I'll be shocked in Mason's partner lives through the season, having someone learn a huge secret and then get killed is pretty much all we need now for a full Noir bingo.
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Jul 20, 2020 13:56
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Woo I'm glad we're getting another season, and surely many more if it keeps getting these kinds of ratings  . Eight million for the premiere and best series premiere numbers in about two years means this show is quite a bit more popular than I expected.Here's hoping they're able to find a place to shoot safely and we get the next season within 1.5-2 years. I'm looking forward to seeing more great acting, fun period/noir stuff, and a combined PI/lawyer dynamic that you don't usually see. If my prediction of Mason's partner getting killed comes true, I'd be very on board with Drake partnering up with Mason as an investigator in the future. That seems like it'd be an interesting dynamic.
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Jul 23, 2020 05:53
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I just found out that Robert Downey Jr. was originally cast to play Perry Mason on this show but had to drop out because it didn't fit into his mega movie star schedule. Rhys is killing it, and it's not a bad thing to go with a younger actor for this origin story, but man I would have enjoyed watching RDJ get shaken down by the film studio jerks and blow up at the crooked defense lawyer in EB's office. RDJ and his wife are still executive producers on the show, so here's hoping we get to see him pop up as a character in a future season. I'd certainly enjoy seeing him as the lawyer Mason's up against in a future case. I'm sure the suits at HBO would love the chance to splash RDJ into trailers for the show too, and that seems like a good way to build on the strength of the better-than-usual pilot viewers (better first episode numbers than Watchmen, for instance) and the overall success of the first season.
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Jul 26, 2020 21:51
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Looks like the church is wrapped up in Charlie's kidnapping/death, and unraveling that whole can of worms is what's going to save Emily. I'm looking forward to Hicks laying basically all of this out, and then probably getting killed by Ennis. Then Mason can use any documents and testimony from him as an exception to the hearsay rule, assuming that works the same back then. If they manage to get a proper deposition from him and a paper trail then Mason should be pretty well set to make his case. Of course, it's gonna get ugly as hell when the church is the one bankrolling him and Emily. Smart of Mason to basically yell at the sidebar too, kind of got his point across and kept him from being completely screwed when the judge didn't allow the dentures/autopsy in as evidence. Mason should absolutely be able to call Ennis to the stand too, and I really hope he does. That seems like it's being set up as the classic "Mason breaks someone down on the stand" moment of the season. Maybe throwing whatever Hicks gives him at Ennis will rattle him enough to make him confess, or at least greatly incriminate himself. I like how this ramped up the tension with the DA throwing every dirty trick at him (perjured testimony, mountains of useless discovery) and made it look like Mason's totally screwed, so now it's gonna be a lot of fun to see him win this when it's the defense's turn. It's also cool that they've set up Ennis to potentially be gunning Hicks, other church people, Drake, or even Mason himself. I expect him to only go after one person, maybe two at the most, but I like that I can't be sure who that'll be ahead of time. Hicks absolutely has to be the frontrunner though.
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Jul 27, 2020 11:15
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Escobarbarian posted:Where’d you get that number from? Yeah poking around more I have no idea how it could be that much based on other figures I've seen since I saw that 8 million figure, I think I saw it on an article that was announcing the second season pickup.
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Jul 27, 2020 13:44
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Yeah that was where I saw it, it's the to-date number and not the premiere number. I thought Holcomb was an okay guy but nope, turns out he's literally dirtier than Ennis. I could see Ennis being taken down this season but Holcomb hanging out as a seedy bad dude into next season.
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Jul 28, 2020 05:10
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Along with Mason calling Ennis as a defense witness, I'd love it if Mason: -Got the judge to be okay with him calling a witness who's not on his list (citing the 15 minutes he had to prepare for the Matron). -Called the Matron to the stand as a defense witness and got her to say that Emily wasn't left unattended or questioned without her lawyer and had her repeat what she said she heard Emily say, then produced depositions from the other prisoners who were crammed into the cell next to Emily's testifying about what Emily really said, getting the Sister up there to dispute it as well, and then calling up the secretary to talk about how the detectives were trying to beat a confession out of Emily and reinforce that the Matron lied about that (nearby prisoner depositions/testimony could be useful here too). Basically, it seems like there's a mountain of ways to discredit the Matron's testimony, and I hope Mason's on the ball enough to do it. Stuff like securing the testimony from nearby prisoners would be a nice way to show that while Mason's currently an overall lovely lawyer, he's willing to put in the leg work to make up for it. -Realized that Emily has basically gone crazy, and chose not to put her on the stand because it'd be a huge risk (pretty much the same logic behind why the DA didn't call Ennis). I think she's going on the stand anyway, and I think you lose points with the Jury if she doesn't, but I just think he'd end up losing more points when she breaks down in five different ways on the stand. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 14:39
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Ah yes, the classic beerfest approach. Works for me!
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Jul 28, 2020 21:03
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With Hicks and the church elder that Pete got a lead on as potential ~shocking deaths~ related to the ongoing investigation, I think Pete's chances of living have jumped up quite a bit. He does still have major detective and noir tropes working against him though. I'll be very shocked if the next episode doesn't end with someone being killed, and I actually expect two deaths with one happening earlier in the episode to make us think that'll be the only one we see.
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Jul 30, 2020 02:10
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Yeah, that was about how I figured the resurrection would go. We've got the whole picture of it now, it's just about proving it in court in a town that's full on looney tunes and after a big crazy spectacle. I hope Mason's closing features a table with his evidence heaped on it, and another with Emily's letters which are basically the prosecution's only physical evidence tying her to the kidnapping. That was some dark poo poo in the opener, the scariest thing about that was the guy didn't even need to say anything overt and she knew what he meant. Ennis being involved is the only thing that remotely kept these kidnapping idiots from being caught soon after and rolling on everyone. Going back to a hotel you've been to before is a stupid rear end move. What the hell was wrong with taking the kid to Gannon's house, or really anywhere that wasn't public? And you didn't have a plan to feed the kid? And if you did have a plan, it was to involve a random sex worker? I was way off on my death predictions, and kudos to the show to have Ennis just tie up the obvious loose ends and not be so looped in on the conspiracy that he knew about the secret paid off former accountant who also secretly had the properly damning copies of the original financial records. It was nice to see this kind of "I've been waiting to tell the truth and expose poo poo" witness actually live and get to go on the stand for a change. Also, RIP to Mason's ribs after this episode, goddamn.
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Aug 3, 2020 05:42
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Kudos to the show, I really didn't see Mason's one last move coming at all. I also rather liked how right when they were building up to the big Perry Mason interrogation they faked us out by having it be a fantasy scene. I would have liked Mason to hammer home his alternate theory for the crime and how that created reasonable doubt in his closing, but hell after the DA was using poor emotion clearly just using emotion as well wasn't a bad idea. I feel like we're done with Sister Alice and the church and we'll be moving on to fresh characters and a fresh case next season, hell now that Perry's a proper lawyer I think you could do two separate clients/trials/cases that have some link to one another and that'd be just fine too. We still have at least one scumbag detective as an antagonist for season 2 as well. Overall I definitely respect that this show was willing to take its time, not give it's characters big wins and have every clue pan out or mystery solved (who dug up Charlie's body isn't certain though there are suspects, the thread was never identified, Ennis wasn't broken down on the stand), and yet still show enough little wrinkles to make it work (Emily not found guilty, Root losing his goddamn mind to a reporter). I like that if you're paying attention, they establish that Drake's got some legit detective chops as well. Tracking down Alice seems like it'd be impossible in the low-tech 30s, but Drake did it in a day or two and his expenses were perfectly reasonable Mason, take his word for it  . Cute that one of his expenses was labeled as Maria too.With a nice mix of playing into expectations and subverting them, while giving us some very solid acting performances and using like four different background music tracks at the most and really repeating the hell out of them but still making that work for me, I give this season a solid A-, and I have high hopes for what they can pull off in season 2. darkgray posted:Wonder if they'll have Pete take over as next season's police detective, so they can keep the fun banter going on when this season's baddies are, uh, removed. Feels like I heard him say he used to be a cop at some point. Good call on this one too, Pete as the cop investigating someone Masons' representing, with each of them sure of that client's guilt or innocence, is some ready made character drama that should be fun as hell, and that dynamic would work well both in a low-stakes casual/friendly way and an intense high-stakes way. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Aug 10, 2020 |
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Aug 10, 2020 08:02
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I'd be interested in seeing how this show approaches Perry taking a case that's way less sensational/in the press than this season's case was and involves defending a regular ol' white guy who doesn't have the heaps of prejudices against him that a woman or a person of color would, but still involves that noir corruption/sleaze element. Given how the police/authority side of things was presented this season, and tying into a prominent issue of today, I'd be on board with seeing Mason defend a cop who was framed. Kind of the opposite of this case evidence wise: there was no evidence that Mrs. Dodson killed her kid but she got charged with it anyway, and in season 2 the client could have a mountain of evidence against him but it's mostly planted/staged against him in a frame-up. Then you have Mason directly trying to uncover corrupt cops as a key part of the case, and that could lead to a bigger win with him getting at least one or two of the people involved charged with a crime.
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Aug 10, 2020 20:54
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That thread was also just the sort of thing you expected to see dramatically matched up with a thread later as a key piece of evidence/clue to the perpetrator, so having it just not end up panning out and serving as a symbol of Perry moving on from the case was another time the show went against the common tropes of detective/noir.
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Aug 11, 2020 00:52
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It's a bit of an obvious route, but having Drake partner up with a guy who's generally an untalented sleazebag but is able to get at least some results and investigate in a lot of places Drake can't, and who basically gets by because Drake is telling him what to do/he takes credit for Drake's ideas, could be a way to go. I think there's room for a proper trash fire as at least a temporary member of team Mason, while people like Mason, Stickland, and even Drake at times are only partial trash fires. Also no matter how much they're not completely leaning into tropes, someone on Mason's team has to get killed or hospitalized next season. Mason's clearly got adamantium ribs and a wolverine like healing factor, so my money's on Drake getting in over his head and being left for dead by some bad folks, leading to some full on hellfire and fury Mason-ing in response. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Aug 11, 2020 |
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Aug 11, 2020 08:29
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I really liked the first season and I'm definitely enjoying this season so far. I'm putting all my fake money onto a bet on the burned-down Luxe that those Serbians that keep wrestling (the ones Paul's brother was talking about) will be brought in as Perry's heavies when he needs some backup while he pursues evidence or otherwise works to ensure that justice is done. What happened to Dodson is also a smart place to take the story since it ensures maximum mopiness for Mason and makes sense for where that character was at the end of the first season. I really hope Perry gets to talk with his Mexican quasi-love interest about this case he's taking on at some point. Her perspective on it seems obvious, but it seems like a scene we ought to see at some point. I feel like it wouldn't be out of place if she just showed up at his office at some point and offered to put him on some sort of clearly bullshit Retainer (kind of willingly opting-in to the sort of thing that they semi-duped Sunny into signing on board for) to make sure he has the money to give those kids a proper defense. I'd expect Perry to accept that sort of help eventually, but I'd expect he'd be strongly against it in the moment. Edit: It's also going to be fun to watch more and more increasingly damning evidence come up against Perry's clients, whether it's true or manufactured. Oh look, here's a gun they definitely had! Whoops, we found some witnesses that put them at the scene!
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Mar 15, 2023 06:55
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Solkanar512 posted:So McCucheon put that woman in a convalescent home because he had his belt around her neck for too long, didn’t he? That's a good call and makes a lot of sense to me. She asphyxiated too long, ended up pretty much brain dead, and McCutcheon was rich and connected enough to cover it up. My guess is her politician brother got a huge bribe that was hidden as part of the stadium construction arrangements since he knows or found out what went down there. I was sure the brothers were getting paid to take the fall, but unless there's another twist there I guess Perry's gonna have a few non innocent clients along the way too, which overall is more interesting and gives the character more internal conflict so that's fine with me. I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone else took out McCutcheon and used the planned hit to have ready-set fall guys that should hopefully never tie back to the person who arranged the murder. Then for whatever reason (perhaps threats to their family) the brothers aren't telling Perry about how "yeah we totally were gonna kill this guy, but then we got there and he was already dead!" It seems like there's a lot of unneeded extra steps there, but at the same time with the level of wealth and power we've seen at work here something as simple as "pay a guy to pay a guy to pay another couple guys to kill a guy and hope those random poors manage it" seems sloppy. It also certainly seems like Brooks was killed because he was one of the people getting subpoena'd and we saw the Produce guy who also had a subpoena get killed by somebody; it seems simplest to just have that somebody kill Brooks too, but with the added frame-up for other people in place since he's so rich and famous. The stuff with the fingerprint also lends credence to the frame-up scenario. I like that it's not as black and white as them just being framed or just taking money to accept guilt, and I'm excited to see how all the little details of this pan out by the end of the season. Hopefully this show just keeps on truckin' because I've enjoyed the plotting and writing, the sets all look great, and it's a very fun lawyer show for me.
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Apr 7, 2023 00:24
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I feel like Gryce is coming in to help sort out whatever the hell is up with the food deliveries to the casino boat. I'm not expecting him to be in on the sleazy situation there or anything, but I expect Perry to bring what he knows/the produce he picked up to him and he'll help put the pieces together. My only guess at the moment on that is McCutcheon is smuggling in oil (maybe to cover for his oil fields not doing well enough). It's definitely a smuggling operation of some kind, but there's gotta be some weird twist for why oil would be involved in it. Solkanar512 posted:Heck yeah, called the belt. I certainly didn’t call the fact that it would be Della who got the “Perry Mason” moment. That bit where she turns to the jury with the belt around her neck was just great. It's got along way to go for wildest "attorney puts a belt around their neck as part of talking about someone using it in sexplay" scene. As far as I know Barba for Law and Order SVU still has that locked down, as seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyZryRhkfOU BigglesSWE posted:Kind of wonder if someone actually *replaced* the weapon in the safe, to have leverage over Mason. I don't recall it looking that silvery. The gun looked the same to me, though we got a nice detailed unobscured close-up of it initially and this time we just saw it at a distance with a hand covering up a nice chunk of it. I think they'll play this one straight and have it be the same gun, since Mason and Della are on their way to at least standing a chance at the trial and they need one last big obstacle to put all the odds against them again and make them actually uncover most or all of what's up here in order to win the day for ~justice~. I also like that this turned into an obstacle for Perry's new relationship as well. With how the character has been depicted he absolutely should be screwing up his romantic relationships at least once a season. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Apr 11, 2023 |
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Apr 11, 2023 22:03
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If the Gallardos are telling the truth and did kill the guy for money, then it wouldn't exactly be a happy ending if they were found not guilty and that seemed to be at least a possibility before the gun got found out. This could get them on course for something like a 20-25 year sentence if all the tangled webs of things come out and Mason is able to put out there all the details for the DA and jury, or agree not to expose all kinds of shady poo poo if the DA will agree to a lighter sentence. Also hopefully the last episodes will bump this up a tier for me, and I'm still definitely liking the show and want as much of it as I can get, but I feel like season one was a more entertaining and higher quality season than season two. For me that mostly comes down to how much we got to see about how that church operated both in public and behind the scenes, and I felt like we were able to get a lot of insight into multiple interesting characters alongside fine acting. This time around it seems like we're drill down more on the main characters like Mason, Della, and Paul, but not getting enough development of the supporting characters, particularly those involved in the case. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Apr 12, 2023 |
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Apr 12, 2023 20:48
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It all clicks into place nicely now. I guess Nygaard is probably taking point on the Japan deal in a lot of ways and McCutcheon is just the guy supplying the oil. We'll probably get a few more tidbits about how exactly that was all set up before the season's over. Kudos to the show, I didn't expect at all that the oil could be being smuggled out. Good tie-in to history too with Japan's oil embargo stuff going on too. I hope they lean on the history of the moment again in the many season that will hopefully come along of this fine show. Some drat sloppy smuggling work there though with oil ending up on the produce. It's a big rear end tanker, just store that fruit elsewhere and toss it off the boat elsewhere! I'm sad that my "get the produce to expert Sunny Gryce" prediction doesn't seem like it'll pan out. Now I think we're definitely on track to match or best season one, at least in my own eyes. If during the next season they can give me a setup as wild as the church from season one and combine it with how well this season is having everything all come together at the end here, I'll be one happy camper. Weirdly enough I'm optimistic that the show will keep going despite the insane amounts of cuts happening in the whole HBO ecosystem right now. It's a genre show, set in a historical period, and drawing on an IP that's quietly insanely popular (The Perry Mason book series is the third most popular book series of all time with 300 million books sold and 82 books written). Granted both the heyday of the series and the classic TV show are quite old, but I think there's some real value to carrying on that name and IP. Having Robert Downer Jr. and his wife as executive producers certainly can't hurt either. And of course, Matthew Rhys is doing a great job, but in the alternate universe where RDJ was cast as Perry Mason (which almost happened), you have to imagine they'd keep doing the show for literally as long as he wanted to keep playing the role regardless of what the ratings looked like. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Apr 19, 2023 |
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Apr 19, 2023 13:25
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I like that so far they've been writing season finales that also work well enough as series finales in case they don't get renewed. Hopefully we get some good news on a renewal sooner rather than later. Give me at least five seasons of this fine show, please and thank you.
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Apr 25, 2023 21:56
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