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Playing through half the game with only one unit should be interesting on its own.
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Jul 21, 2020 16:16
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| # ? May 9, 2024 00:33 |
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I always love a good Vilk LP, even the short ones. Thanks, dude!
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Jul 21, 2020 16:46
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Your stuff is always great and this was no exception. Thanks for the LP, vilk!
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Jul 21, 2020 16:51
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 As for a prepromote run, it could be fun, especially after something like this, but quite easy. Seth has no problem doing the first half of the game alone, even carrying the lord under one arm if necessary, and then the game throws Duessel and Saleh at you who are both incredibly good. Dozla is going to be the weak link because his bases are trash, but if you throw him some stat boosters (Seth really doesn't need them!) and levels he'll be decent. Innes, as we've seen, isn't too bad either if you put your mind to using him. Syrene... uhh i dunno if there's anything i can do to salvage her but she comes in like three maps from endgame anyway. The big problem during a solo run is the egg map, because stone = death. With multiple characters, and Saleh able to use restore and hopefully physic at that point, that would probably be fairly doable as well.
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Jul 21, 2020 19:05
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I'd imagine any of the GBA games would be easy to solo, probably with a Pegasus Knight or someone with similarly high evasion. I'm really glad dodge-tanking stopped being a thing after these games.
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Jul 21, 2020 19:16
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I don't know, if you try that with Shanna you're going to have a terrible time. She doesn't even oneround archers when she joins and basically explodes if something actually hits her. I don't think she can beat her joining chapter without help. Vanessa doesn't seem much fun either (so many brigands on her first maps). Florina would probably be decent if you use Lyn mode to bulk her up though. But you're still going to be relatively squishy and not very strong, and you don't get terrain avoid so it feels a bit shaky. Axe users tend to have bad hit, but lancereavers are going to suck. Doing it with a myrm instead would let you use terrain, but you'd have unimpressive movement, 1-range lock for most of the game, and difficulties doing any meaningful damage. And IIRC 7 will deploy all the lords on a few maps which could make it hard to protect them all.
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Jul 21, 2020 20:09
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Wow, Moulder sucks so much. He has less than half of Saleh's magic!!
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Jul 21, 2020 20:25
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vilkacis posted:I don't know, if you try that with Shanna you're going to have a terrible time. She doesn't even oneround archers when she joins and basically explodes if something actually hits her. I don't think she can beat her joining chapter without help. Vanessa doesn't seem much fun either (so many brigands on her first maps). Florina would probably be decent if you use Lyn mode to bulk her up though. But you're still going to be relatively squishy and not very strong, and you don't get terrain avoid so it feels a bit shaky. Axe users tend to have bad hit, but lancereavers are going to suck. Doing it with a myrm instead would let you use terrain, but you'd have unimpressive movement, 1-range lock for most of the game, and difficulties doing any meaningful damage. All that is true, and the beginnings would undoubtedly be the hardest parts, they'd also get all the stat boosters. Hell, a (promotable) Thief might be able to do it too, but only Colm would promote at a reasonable time.
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Jul 21, 2020 20:33
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Rabbi Raccoon posted:I'd imagine any of the GBA games would be easy to solo, probably with a Pegasus Knight or someone with similarly high evasion. I'm really glad dodge-tanking stopped being a thing after these games. Fe6 normal mode probably can't be solo'd. Hard mode solo is completely out of the question without TAS-level manip and even then I'm not sure. Fe7 would be an interesting beast, you might stand a chance at doing Eliwood or Hector solo in their respective routes, on normal mode. It'll involve quite a bit of rigging though.
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Jul 21, 2020 21:27
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Torrannor posted:Wow, Moulder sucks so much. He has less than half of Saleh's magic!! Yup. He didn't even try. Well to be fair Saleh is an incredible unit, too. He actually has more magic on joining than Moulder would even if he promoted at 20, so from a gameplay perspective the only thing Moulder really has on him is staff rank. Natasha at least gets a horse. Rabbi Raccoon posted:All that is true, and the beginnings would undoubtedly be the hardest parts, they'd also get all the stat boosters. Hell, a (promotable) Thief might be able to do it too, but only Colm would promote at a reasonable time. Dance Officer posted:Fe6 normal mode probably can't be solo'd. Hard mode solo is completely out of the question without TAS-level manip and even then I'm not sure. Both Eliwood and thieves have the same issue as myrms, though. They're usually pretty noodly-armed and they're stuck with the weakest weapon in the game and no 2-range. I wouldn't want to try either, it seems like a horrible slog if it is even doable at all. I think the only way a solo run can be enjoyable at all is with a unit who gets hand axes or javelins because you'll rely so heavily on enemy phase. Eliwood might be fine once he promotes, but there's a lot of maps before then.
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Jul 22, 2020 03:49
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Primary staff units are the other way that the GBA games are just weird about. Their experience gain is SO slow and the end result.... is a unit that is usually worse than the mages and the Sage prepromote. What's the point?
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Jul 22, 2020 19:23
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Yeah i've ranted more than enough about healer levels being bullshit. Theoretically Moulder and Natasha have Slayer or a horse to make up for Saleh's stats... unless you go sage Moulder, but lol. But, also staff rank because Moulder's going to be able to use any staff he finds the moment he finds it, but Saleh needs to grind an entire rank to use Physic and another if he wants Warp. And the fact that he's combat viable means most people will probably want to use him for that, meaning even slower staff exp. In normal gameplay he's probably competing more with Lute and maybe Artur for a slot.
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Jul 22, 2020 21:40
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I remember the Sage problem being worse in FE7 because the sage there starts with A rank staff. In addition to better stats than Saleh. Yeah, Pent, COMPLETELY invalidate the non-Canas mages, good job. He's the Mage General for a reason.... Saleh is a step in the right direction, balance wise. Oddly enough the class balance means that his actual disadvantage is that all the other mages can get a horse or Slayer. If you actually want to use Saleh in a non-grinding game, he's your best staff option still since he comes before Physic becomes easily available (so he has time to swing that staff), and doesn't have to promote early to avoid the healer exp gain problem. So he'll have the most Physic and later Warp distance. Moulder's advantage there is first healer advantage, so if you really want to use the Latona staff (all zero times that Vilk doing a weird challenge run actually used it), he's your fastest route to that.
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Jul 23, 2020 02:15
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vilkacis posted:Yeah i've ranted more than enough about healer levels being bullshit. If you promote Artur to bishop, he starts at C staves, so he's 22 uses of torch away from A staves. Under normal circumstances I prefer to do some early game healing with moulder, then switch to Artur when he promotes. Building staff rank is way easier than you're making it out to be. Dance Officer fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Jul 23, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 06:49
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Keldulas posted:Moulder's advantage there is first healer advantage, so if you really want to use the Latona staff (all zero times that Vilk doing a weird challenge run actually used it), he's your fastest route to that. Hey  I used it  once Dance Officer posted:If you promote Artur to bishop, he starts at C staves, so he's 22 uses of torch away from A staves. Under normal circumstances I prefer to do some early game healing with moulder, then switch to Artur when he promotes. I mean i got Saleh to S, i know you can, but that's still 22 turns of mostly useless manual grinding. It takes longer if you do useful things with him, even assuming he's on full staff duty.
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Jul 23, 2020 08:08
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Dance Officer posted:If you promote Artur to bishop, he starts at C staves, so he's 22 uses of torch away from A staves. Under normal circumstances I prefer to do some early game healing with moulder, then switch to Artur when he promotes. Staff grinding is never hard, but my statement did say 'non-grinding game'. 22 uses of torch qualifies as grinding since that's 22 turns on a fog map when the story maps thankfully don't fog you that often. I'll say that I didn't well consider that Artur would start with C staff yes. Combined with being an early offensive caster so his experience isn't horrendous, he's a decent pathway to staff use.
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Jul 23, 2020 11:20
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Keldulas posted:Staff grinding is never hard, but my statement did say 'non-grinding game'. 22 uses of torch qualifies as grinding since that's 22 turns on a fog map when the story maps thankfully don't fog you that often. Staff grinding Artur is common in efficiency runs. You can reasonably hit A staves on Artur before heading to chapter 16, where efficiency runs start warping. Going from C to A staves requires 110 weapon exp, heal gives 2, mend and physic 3, status staves give 5, torch gives 5, barrier 4. Chapter 11 in both routes is a fog of war map, and both can be completed in 6 turns. That's 30 Wexp assuming no dancing, which leaves 80. You can buy a barrier in the chapter 14 secret shop. If you spend chapter 15 spamming barrier, there's 56 Wexp to go, again assuming lowest turns possible and no dancing. Which means you have to find 19 mend/physic heals in other places to hit A, ignoring any other staff uses.
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Jul 23, 2020 12:09
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 ???? ?????????????????????
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Jul 25, 2020 12:53
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I love that even on hard mode he can literally solo the game. Oh, Seth 
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Jul 25, 2020 13:27
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Seth and Duessel cut the world in half
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Jul 25, 2020 13:30
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Man look at all these items that talk about promoting dudes. I wonder why the game gives you those?
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Jul 25, 2020 15:16
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Seth: The Run, where Seth kills everything and no one can oppose him. Must feel nice after the bow run.
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Jul 25, 2020 16:27
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Shei-kun posted:I love that even on hard mode he can literally solo the game. And the amazing thing isn't just that he can, it's that it's so easy! Rigged Death Trap posted:Seth and Duessel cut the world in half No!!! They get one swing each! They cut it in four. FoolyCharged posted:Man look at all these items that talk about promoting dudes. I wonder why the game gives you those?  i think they're just fancier red gems to be honestBlaze Dragon posted:Seth: The Run, where Seth kills everything and no one can oppose him. Oh you had better believe it. Positioning? Preparations? I don't need to give a single gently caress about them, it's Seth time, motherfuckers!
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Jul 25, 2020 16:59
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I'm interested in seeing how Dozla fares above anyone else, tbh.
Dance Officer fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jul 25, 2020 |
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Jul 25, 2020 18:22
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This is really making me want to show off Eirika solo, because I had a lot of fun with that.
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Jul 25, 2020 20:04
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Dance Officer posted:I'm interested in seeing how Dozla fares above anyone else, tbh.  Rosalie_A posted:This is really making me want to show off Eirika solo, because I had a lot of fun with that. I don't mind turning this into a challenge run mini-megathread so feel free to  here if you want. Swordlock solo sounds kind of hellish but i suppose having an easy time isn't the point of a challenge run 
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Jul 25, 2020 20:35
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Summons only--play normally until you get Ewan, then make him solo the game until he gets summons, and then he can only use summons from that point forward.
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Jul 25, 2020 21:21
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That sounds hilarious but also practically impossible since summons die in one hit. Given Seth goes through a full 100 javelin uses pretty easily you're probably looking at triple-digit turncounts in late-game maps even if you somehow manage to not have Ewan explode along the way. ...and by the time you have Ewan, you are pretty much in the lategame already.
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Jul 26, 2020 06:39
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Don't forget about Knoll 
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Jul 26, 2020 07:52
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Knoll who  If you were going to do that, i'd say hack Ewan into Eirika's spot and Knoll into Seth's so you can at least play the game with them. I forget if you get exp for summoning though. If not, if you'd be stuck with level 1 promoted characters trying to summon their way through 40-attack shadowshot gorgons, you'd still be preeeeetty screwed. And, hell, even level 20 promoted units take a beating from that.
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Jul 26, 2020 08:31
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 Sacred Bownes FREE DLC part 2!!
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Jul 26, 2020 11:54
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Yeah, I recently learned the "you still get Dozla if L'Arachel doesn't survive" tidbit while playing a randomizer. I got into such a situation on Eirika route that L'Arachel basically had an 80% chance every turn to get one-shotted, and I just decided "gently caress it, I can't be hosed, the units don't look that good anyway", played through the chapter normally, and suddenly ended up with Dozla in my party. I was quite confused.
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Jul 26, 2020 13:36
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You might not think much of Dozla's defensive stats, but he's surprisingly similar to 10/20/1 berserker Ross in that regard. Edit: and 20/1 Garcia for that matter. Dance Officer fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Jul 26, 2020 |
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Jul 26, 2020 14:11
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TheMcD posted:Yeah, I recently learned the "you still get Dozla if L'Arachel doesn't survive" tidbit while playing a randomizer. I got into such a situation on Eirika route that L'Arachel basically had an 80% chance every turn to get one-shotted, and I just decided "gently caress it, I can't be hosed, the units don't look that good anyway", played through the chapter normally, and suddenly ended up with Dozla in my party. I was quite confused. It does make sense since she survives regardless, but, yeah. Definitely the biggest surprise this update... after Dozla's strength growth, that is Dance Officer posted:You might not think much of Dozla's defensive stats, but he's surprisingly similar to 10/20/1 berserker Ross in that regard. Defensive stats aren't the only thing, though. Ross by that point is faster, stronger, more accurate and more dodgy, so he has an easier time getting enemies off him and doesn't have to take as many hits. But mostly Dozla just looks extra bad standing next to some of the best characters in the game with several levels under their belts.
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Jul 26, 2020 15:07
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Just spitballing, if you had handed Ephraim a weapon and left him in range of the Staff Assholes, would he have made a more tempting target? It's not like there's any danger of him killing your real units, so then you just have to keep him from getting in combat with any other enemies. Or would waiting for berserk to wear off still take too long to catch up to Rennac before he leaves?
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Jul 26, 2020 17:05
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To give you an idea of just how bad dozla's base speed is I was going to put out a list of people who have 8 speed or more when they join(dozla has 9 - 1 for promotion bonus), but decided the point would be better listing those that don't: Franz - level 1, -1 speed, matches at level 3 Gilliam - level 4, -5 speed, matches at level 20 Ross - level 1 trainee, -5 speed, matches at level 9,6,9 after promotion 1(fighter, pirate, journeyman2) Garcia - level 4, -1 speed, matches at level 9 Niemi - level 1, -2 speed, matches at level 5 Lute - level 1, -1 speed, matches at level 4 Kyle - level 5, -1 speed, matches at level 8 Amelia - level 1 trainee, -4 speed, matches at level 1 after promotion 1(all 3) Ewan - level 1 trainee, -3 speed, matches at level 10 trainee Myrrh - level 1, -3 speed, matches at level 6 In short form, he is literally worse on average than every other unit in the game (bar gilliam) promoted as early as possible and is only comparable to the slowest of the slow.
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Jul 26, 2020 17:13
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vilkacis posted:Defensive stats aren't the only thing, though. Ross by that point is faster, stronger, more accurate and more dodgy, so he has an easier time getting enemies off him and doesn't have to take as many hits. Ehh. I picked 20/1 stats because they're a convenient comparison. Both Ross and Garcia hit level 20 in chapter 10 of your run, but then they also did most of the work up til that point. On chapter 11, I think a 10/12/1 Ross, and 15/1 Garcia are possible, if very generous(if we're not going to assume leveling up units in Valni tower, which I don't). Their stats compare like so(rounding up all relevant stats): Dozla: 43 hp/16 str/11 skl/9 spd/4 luck/11 def/6 res Ross: 35 hp/18 str/ 10 skl/11 spd/16 luck/11 def/6 res (pirate into zerker) Garcia: 41 hp/16 str/15 skl/11 spd/7 luck/10 def/5 res (hero) Honestly, Ross' stat advantage is overstated.
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Jul 26, 2020 17:23
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FoolyCharged posted:To give you an idea of just how bad dozla's base speed is I was going to put out a list of people who have 8 speed or more when they join(dozla has 9 - 1 for promotion bonus), but decided the point would be better listing those that don't: But Dozla has an awesome beard, so he's the best
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Jul 26, 2020 17:53
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I appreciate all these fishes.
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Jul 26, 2020 18:25
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| # ? May 9, 2024 00:33 |
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Dance Officer posted:Ehh. I picked 20/1 stats because they're a convenient comparison. Both Ross and Garcia hit level 20 in chapter 10 of your run, but then they also did most of the work up til that point. On chapter 11, I think a 10/12/1 Ross, and 15/1 Garcia are possible, if very generous(if we're not going to assume leveling up units in Valni tower, which I don't). Their stats compare like so(rounding up all relevant stats): Its also availability. Youve had ross for longer and may have got some supports for him underway, and thanks to randomness he may have either higher or lower stats than dozla so theres a variable chance that ross ends up better than dozla in key stats like speed, where las dozla will always be the same. It you manage to 20/1 ross or garcia before you get dozla (entirely possible, remember that Vilk blitzed some kill boss/seize maps and fed a lot of bosses to neimi) they are on average better, so it becomes a question of whether you leveled them up or not. If you didnt, Dozlas best characteristics then come from being a zerker and his battle axe, which carries him well in a full team, because you definitely have better units by the point you recruit him.
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Jul 26, 2020 19:22
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