Wizardry 8: From Crabs to Galactic Conquest

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EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Man, I had a great time with Wizardry 8, despite the clunky-as-hell combat system. I dug up my old party, so pick whichever one of these bozos best fits in with whoever else you take:

-Hanzo Steele, Male Mook Samurai, Kindly Voice 2
-Scales (real name Lady Cordelia Fireheart), Female Dracon Valkyrie, Aggressive Voice 1
-Vindleberry "Vinny" Sparklewing, Male Faerie ~~Ninja~~ Hitman, Cunning Voice 1 (i.e. the Italian-American stereotype voice)
-Elroy "Roy" Manchester, Male Human Bard, Laid-back Voice 1
-Glindle Tinkergear, Male Gnome Gadgeteer, Eccentric Voice 1
-Eldrin Q. Thistlethorp III, Male Elf Bishop, Intellectual Voice 2

And I figure a Hybrid LP will get the best of both worlds, as everyone else has said.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2020 08:40

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 13:35

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Raitzeno posted:

I'd prefer a screenshot LP, but if you can screenshot/transcribe the text in any videos that need to be taken, I'll happily settle for a Hybrid, especially if the voices are as integral to the experience as it sounds so far..

For context, the game is more or less fully-voiced, and uses a system of manually-typed keywords where a character may have something to say about literally dozens of topics. On top of that, the party themselves will chime in with dialog in response to story events, which will differ depending on which of the thirty-six voice options you're using. There's also a lot of neat (for the time) visuals. On the other hand, combat is so agonizingly slow (it uses the same "multiple groups of up to about a dozen enemies in every combat" system Wizardry has always used, except now they move and attack within a 3D space, one at a time) that a video of it would not be great.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2020 22:33

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

I take exception to the implication that you can't be both Thieving AND Virtuous. Save the world by putting its contents directly into your pockets.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2020 02:39

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Black Robe posted:

It's the Hero Tax.

Yeah, and it's not like you can't strive to be kindly and heroic in terms of quest resolution while robbing everyone blind. It's called "being a JRPG protagonist".

# ¿ Jul 13, 2020 06:37

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Straight White Shark posted:

I think that thread is just gone to the ether. I found some of the guy's other ramblings and he's just a fuckin loon, but there's probably a grain of truth behind it all.

EDIT: Ok, so from what I can gather the short version is that penis monsters never had anything to do with the game that was released as Wizardry 8. In between Wiz7 and Wiz8 Sir-Tech contracted with a 3rd party shop in Australia to produce a sequel to Wiz 7. The principal coder claims that he used his superior northern European genes to singlehandedly produce the greatest sequel to the greatest cRPG series ever made despite the sex crazed antics of the (insert various LGBT slurs here) that comprised the rest of the team, only to have Sir-Tech pull the plug because they were afraid of his northern European game design prowess. Someone posted some concept art they had found from an auction of Sir-Tech's assets depicting some monsters that were somewhat suggestive in a vague, Gigeresque sort of way, giving a veneer of truth to some of the guy's claims. Other claims, such as the harem of underage sex slaves the project leader supposedly had (for he was gay, you see) remain uncorroborated.

It's worth noting that Cleve Blakemore is every kind of virulent bigot under the sun and one costume change away from just being an out-and-proud Nazi, and was only brought onto the old Wizardry 8 project as a consultant midway through an already-troubled development cycle. After his resignation, he took twenty years to make a Wizardry knock-off entirely by himself (having burned all of his professional bridges publicly badmouthing a former employer), and it was mediocre even by 1997 standards. So, even the stuff that seems to have a kernel of truth to it is most likely wildly misrepresented at best, and his game design skills are as uncorroborated as anything else he claimed.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2020 06:50

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

PurpleXVI posted:

Weird derails are honestly welcome as long as they're interesting and no one gets in a fight over them, especially if they're related to the game, the developer, the series, etc. in a way that adds facts we might otherwise not have.

Also new update probably incoming within 24 hours.

A possibly more fun topic is the behind-the-scenes battle that took place to get the current Wizardry 8 published. You see, the Sir-Tech that published most of the Wizardry series, and failed to develop Wizardry 8 once before, did not, in fact, develop this one. This one was made by Sir-Tech Canada, a company formed following the shuttering of the original Sir-Tech, seemingly set up entirely to finish this one game, as it collapsed shortly thereafter. And with their dying breath, Sir-Tech signed over unlimited rights to Wizardry to a Japanese company, in response to the franchise's wild popularity over there. But, it gets better, in that signing away the IP was likely done specifically to spite Electronic Arts, who allegedly pulled a lot of strings to gently caress over Sir-Tech as much as possible in order to prevent the successful release of Wizardry 8 and force them into a buyout so EA could acquire the Wizardry license (essentially doing to Sir-Tech what they'd previously done to Origin Systems). Of course, while Sir-Tech was forced into insolvency, EA failed to prevent Wizardry 8 from being released, and the IP was sold to a company that would actually use it well, so, like Ultima VII, Wiz8 (and all the Japanese entries) exists in large part as a giant "gently caress you" to EA.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2020 15:21

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Omnicrom posted:

I knew nothing about Sir-tech or Wizardry going into this thread, but I suddenly have a huge amount of respect for them and I wish all the best for the Japanese Wizardry games, may they flourish for as long as video games survive.

The other big thing to know about Wizardry is that Wizardry IV is one of the wildest rides in video game history.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2020 19:57

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Omnicrom posted:

I'd totally forgotten that was Wizardry. That would definitely explain why Werdna is in the party though. I also read the LP of Tales of the Forsaken Lands a little while ago.

Honestly most of what I know of Wizardry is that it's that game that inspired Etrian Odyssey and also kind of the generic fantasy setting in Japanese media along with Dragon Quest.

The real bummer is that only very few of the Japanese games inspired by Wizardry adopted any of the rad sci-fi elements added during the Dark Savant trilogy. Also, many of the cultural references and in-jokes were lost on the Japanese audience, so they took the whole thing completely seriously and so the Japanese installments are honestly kind of dreary.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2020 22:50

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

William Henry Hairytaint posted:

Also if you're really set on playing 1 or 5 like I suggested, 1 is available on the NES and 5 is on the SNES and both are decent ports with far far FAR superior graphics.

There's actually an SNES title called Story of Llylgamyn that contains the first three games, but it's technically Japan-exclusive, though most of the text can be set to English (using the original scripts, IIRC), and Aeon Genesis made a patch to translate what little text wasn't in English. That said, it's the most graphically advanced and user-friendly version of the original trilogy.

Further, there's also New Age of Llylgamyn on the PS1, which combined IV and V and is really the only way a person used to modern video games is likely to be able to play Wizardry IV without going mad. The PS1 version also includes an "arranged mode", which is a full remake of IV that gives you direct control over Werdna's monsters, but makes it so there's only ever one of each, essentially making it a more traditional Wizardry party crossed with Shin Megami Tensei (since you still have to summon new monsters to get upgrades), as well as other improvements (such as a complete revamping of the Black Box that makes inventory management vastly easier). The arranged mode doesn't have an English language option, mind you, and you'd have to deal with some Japanese text even with the original version, but one feature available even for the original Wiz4 is automapping, which, I mean, you can imagine how useful that would be for Wizardry IV in particular.

EDIT: Found some footage of New Age of Llylgamyn! Behold, Werdna's emergence into a new realm of 3D graphics!

EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Jul 15, 2020

# ¿ Jul 15, 2020 05:37

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Wizardry didn't just influence Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy, it can easily be seen as the progenitor of the entire JRPG genre. Many early JRPGs were first-person dungeon crawlers because of Wizardry's influence, such as Phantasy Star, Shining in the Darkness, and Megami Tensei (and later, Shin Megami Tensei). You'd be hard-pressed to find a JRPG that doesn't draw on that legacy, either directly or indirectly (such as Earthbound's gameplay being fairly derivative of Dragon Quest).

# ¿ Jul 20, 2020 16:54

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Cythereal posted:

Nah, Wizardry 8 doesn't let you import endgame items like Crusaders does. 8's import list is actually pretty stripped down, the most powerful stuff you can import is all roughly mid-game gear from Bane and Crusaders that there's a decent chance you either never picked up at the time (or immediately sold) because you already had better gear when you found it, or sold it later in the game as you replaced it with endgame kit.

There is one important item you can transfer up from Wizardry 7, but you can only get it by transferring up from Wizardry 6. Also weirdly enough there are a few polearms you can transfer up, in particular, that can last you until well into the game. Most other weapon types don't have much in the way of awesome stuff that transfers, but there's like three polearms that are solid mid-game weapons, one of which actually being a strong candidate for best polearm due to its secondary effects. That being said, all of those weapons can be found later on in Wizardry 8 so you don't actually lose much by not transferring.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2020 20:00

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

3, Both

No reason not to fill the RPC slots for the time being, but be ready to dump them in favor of better/more interesting characters.

Also, for where to go next, just head to Arnika. The place I really want you to go from the Northern Wilderness would definitely be impossible for the party right now.

Also, on the topic of Sgt. Kunar (since you mentioned it), wasn't it also possible to find evidence that he's a double agent and rat him out to avoid him turning you in to the T'rang as well? Seems like a more elegant solution than directly murdering him.

EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jul 22, 2020

# ¿ Jul 22, 2020 19:20

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

PurpleXVI posted:

The votes seem pretty conclusive, but you never know, there could be a sudden surge of folks who want to see everything burn.

Unrelated, a lot of RPG LP's tend to have spell overview posts, listing the various types of wizardry you can get up to and talking a bit about their various applications. Is this anything that would interest people? Or are you all just here for the great voice acting and to watch me cry when I try to beat a monster well above a level for half an hour in a row?

I've played Wiz8 but I also do not remember most of the spells and it'd be neat to know what the party's working with since I've also forgotten which spells are on which lists.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2020 23:38

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

I found the best solution to be very carefully seeking out and completing as much quest content as I could in each area, to make sure my team was at the highest possible level, and had the best gear they could. Even so, I recall Trynton being pretty rough at first. Once you've cleared some encounters and gained a couple levels, it'll get much easier.

# ¿ Jul 23, 2020 21:39

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Swap Sparkles for Vi

As mentioned, Sparkles can be kind of grating, and also Vi is as close to "canon" as the RPCs get.

Go use the wheel key and also check out some of the other side content setpieces. Also pick up a plain dagger, short staff, and longsword, for no particular reason.

I forget which ones exactly are presently accessible and won't immediately ruin your party at this level, but there's a ton of cool poo poo in Wizardry 8 if you go off the beaten path a little, and the earlier you do it, the longer you'll be able to enjoy the rewards. Some secrets in this game are pretty complicated, the stuff schoolyard rumors are made of, and I just love poo poo like that.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2020 18:11

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

PurpleXVI posted:

Only one I'm currently missing is the short staff, that loving thing always takes me forever to find.

Same here! I swear, you'd think goddamn stick would be easier to find!

Also, yeah, the other contender for best RPC is great, especially because he fit better into my preferred party setup than Vi (my party already had a Valkyrie, so while she was still pretty great, she ended up just being a watered-down version of her). The other guy's class, I think, is one most players are going to overlook unless specifically aiming to use some of the less-exciting classes, so there's less redundancy.

Also, gonna be honest, it's a real shame Male Cunning Voice 1 didn't make it onto any of the party. His commentary tends to be some of the best, because while everyone else is doing their fantasy adventure shtick, he's doing the whole Goodfellas routine, and I think his commentary if you select him for a certain decision is possibly the funniest bit of PC chatter in the game. For those of you planning to try Wiz8 for yourselves, definitely pick Male Cunning 1, you won't regret it.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2020 19:28

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Do not rob the bank overtly when you have already gotten away with doing so secretly four times.

DO acquire the Cane of Corpus right this second. The Astral Dominae quest will pan out however, but going much of the game without the only reason to have a Fairy Ninja in the party is something to be avoided.

Go to Marten's Bluff and work on resolving the T'rang-Umpani war peacefully.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2020 10:39

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Zurai posted:

If you can beat that fight at this point, I'd love to see it. I usually have to come back closer to level 20, and even then it takes a couple reloads. It's generally considered the hardest fight in the game.

Seconding this, that fight was the only fight that really gave me a hard time during my playthrough, and I'd love to see you try it at your current level, so take the long way back.

Actually, set up a portal at the T'rang base, go pick up the Cane of Corpus, then take the long way back.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2020 12:15

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

RFS and Vi

Vi is literally the only RPC in the game with a significant amount of plot relevance, and RFS owns. Bring Saxx for the few areas Vi won't go to, though.

# ¿ Aug 24, 2020 02:38

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

I have no strong opinion on whether you do the Umpani or T'rang questline first, but do NOT go to Rapax Rift until you've done everything else. It just feels more fitting to save it for last.

Also, no class changes. If you wanted a Bishop, you should have picked one at the outset. :colbert:

# ¿ Aug 28, 2020 18:03

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

I can say from experience that the Negatair is quite reliable, particularly in encounters where you're dealing with large numbers of weaker enemies (i.e., the exact situation mass save-or-die spells are made for). I don't know offhand how it compares to actually casting Asphyxiate with higher spell circles, but I can't say I saw a huge difference in effectiveness between the gadget and the spell in my playthrough.

# ¿ Sep 4, 2020 05:31

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

One mildly interesting note about the Al-Sedexus quest is that having an all-female party won't lock you out of the (temporarily) peaceful solution. You can't usually select a woman from your party, but if that's all you have, the devs included a contingency to allow it.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2020 03:40

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Kacie posted:

I've forgotten why we're visiting the Rapax in the first place. If we have all three Dominae, why can't we march up Ascension Peak like we did earlier? (Thanks, I'm sure this was explained earlier.)

Because the second anyone attempts to Ascend, the Dark Savant will use the tower he stuck in Arnika to blow up the planet, unless some way is found to disable the device. I don't recall exactly what was in the Rapax Rift that was relevant to that quest, but it was something, pretty sure.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2020 04:16

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Sum Gai posted:

Once you have two of the endgame artifacts the Rapax seal Ascension Peak with a landslide, so you have to go through their territory.

There are workarounds for that, like placing a portal on Ascension Peak before it gets blocked, which is what PurpleXVI did.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2020 04:20

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Oh, well, that'll learn me for not watching the linked videos, I'd forgotten exactly when Al-Sedexus grabs her sacrifice and assumed it was last update, so, when I mentioned that she's perfectly willing to take a woman if (and only if) the party is all-female, this update is actually what I was referring to. Additionally, you can use RPCs for this purpose if their level is close enough to that of the rest of the party (Myles, in particular, has some pretty great dialog for the whole sequence, though getting him there at a high enough level is easier said than done). If they're too weak, they'll be rejected. Additionally, RFS will mention lacking the necessary "components" in most cases and is not usable regardless (rumor has it that if he's the only male character in the party, he'll do it, but I've found no evidence to support this).

# ¿ Sep 17, 2020 23:25

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

PurpleXVI posted:

I'm not sure what could have "unslogged" Wizardry 8. Probably smaller fights with tougher enemies, something similar to fighting other parties like yourself, or perhaps enemies moving more simultaneously once their moves are plotted(to prevent them banging into each other).

Don't have the battles out in the world with free movement. Sure, it feels neat to have everything be organic like that but we've seen how maddeningly slow it is. Instead, keep the old style where it was purely turn-based with no free movement. Anachronox showed that PC RPGs can handle that sort of battle engine, and it would be a lot faster.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2020 20:23

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

PurpleXVI posted:

The problem with that is that "line up and bop each other"-fighting like an ancient jRPG is... really hard to have any real tactical depth in. Like, any game I've had where fighting required thinking and not just a big ol' numberslam, it had positioning of some kind. In Wizardry 8 as it is, for instance, picking the right place to fight is huge. Like there are fights where the difference between a wipeout and an easy win is whether you put your back to a wall or engage in a corridor where the enemy can't swarm around you and hit you from behind.

See, that's the thing about game design, is you can't always have everything. In this design space, barring some heretofore completely unknown solution, you can have two of the following three:

-First-person, on-the-ground perspective.
-Turn-based combat.
-Action that isn't slow as gently caress.

The turn-based stuff with tactical movement is all isometric in large part because it's much, much faster to get everyone moved around (and even then, they take a lot longer than oldschool Wizardry/JRPG-style combat). The only other solution I could see maybe working (but probably requiring too much processor power for a game as old as Wiz8) is just input the party's actions, and then have everyone move simultaneously. You still end up losing a lot of tactical depth since you can't set actions to go off in order, but battles don't take forever to finish.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2020 21:35

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

The solution to Wizardry 8's janky magic system is to use a Bishop as your party's pure spellcaster. It's true that they get spell levels more slowly, but Wizardry 8 is the only game in the series that actually goes to a high enough level that Bishops can really play around with top-tier spells, and once you get to that point, they'll absolutely be able to clean house. There's one endgame battle that I completely trivialized just by using the Gadgeteer's NegatAir and the Bishop's Quicksand or Death Wish (I forget which I used, pretty sure it was Quicksand because their Divine resistance was higher). Wiped out not only all but maybe one or two of the dozens of weak chaff enemies, but also one of the "boss" enemies of the encounter. In fact, I would contend that the ideal party is two tanks (Samurai and Valkyrie tend to be my picks, in order to use as much class-exclusive gear as possible), a Fairy Ninja (obligatory in the Dark Savant Trilogy), a Bard, a Gadgeteer, and a Bishop. The only thing you kind of miss (the Ranger's Scouting) can be easily replaced by Detect Secrets and/or just reading a guide on the internet.

# ¿ Sep 23, 2020 20:32

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

So, it was the fight with the Rapax Prince and Al-(party member) that I totally trivialized via the NegatAir and other kill-all spells. I didn't get any Treants in the area when I hit that fight, so I just popped both and not only did just about all of the Templars die, so did Al-(party member). The Rapax Prince was essentially left alone on the field, which, as one might expect, was not much of a challenge.

Also, I think the good endings of Wizardry VIII are really powerful, and I think they were written, or at least finalized, after the writing was on the wall for Sir-Tech. Because the message seems to be "you've adventured and grown with Wizardry for potentially twenty entire years, and now, the next adventure we set for you is to create something yourself, it's all on you now". It's kind of funny, years later, a similar message would show up in The Magic Circle, a game that's all about tortured development cycles like that of Wizardry 8 (in fact, Wizardry 8 clearly influences a lot of the surface aesthetic).

# ¿ Oct 1, 2020 20:45

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 13:35

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

PurpleXVI posted:

So, I actually did the fight twice because first time I was a moron and did the bomb defusal before going up, so I needed a second climb without it, and that time had no treants and... I think despite spamming the NegatAir every round, it ate like three or four enemies, tops. Though one of those was the Rapax Prince. I guess you're just luckier than me.

It might be what levels we each were, as well. I almost assuredly did a lot more unnecessary fighting, so I might have gone in with a couple extra levels, slightly higher skills, etc.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2020 21:41

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