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Morbi
Aug 7, 2013

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Torquemadras posted:

- PM original characters are memory-holed (Kammy Koopa...)

To be honest, the existence of Kammy Koopa when Kamek was already a semi-established character with the exact same position and personality always struck me as kind of weird and redundant.

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Morbi
Aug 7, 2013

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Re: the big ending spoiler of Olivia wishing herself out of existence, it seemed to me like an extremely in-character wish for her from the angles of A: it being an accidental miswording by a character who makes many poorly thought-out decisions throughout the game, B: an intentional act of projected guilt as Olly's sister for not somehow stopping him before it got to that point, or even some combination of the two. Olivia has a childlike understanding of complex emotions like guilt and grief (which makes sense, considering she and Olly were probably folded pretty recently) and I was surprised just how much they were willing to explore that aspect of her character.

Morbi
Aug 7, 2013

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Amppelix posted:

ok, what exactly is the point of the cafe in toad town where you can buy speed up tea that lasts for five seconds, and also intentionally slow yourself down???

To make you go faster or slower for five seconds, obviously.

Morbi
Aug 7, 2013

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John Wick of Dogs posted:

Hmm was just checking out the gallery and noticed there's one kind of enemy I didn't fight in the yellow streamer area. I have no idea what it could be. It was in the bottom right under either a fire or hammer bro. Apart from that I have 100% of enemies

That's a special enemy type that only spawns in one location in the game. You'll find it by actually getting into fights in the tunnel where you first get the bootcar instead of just gleefully running the folded soldiers down.

Morbi
Aug 7, 2013

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Blackbelt Bobman posted:

I was going to say this, the little letter hints are pretty useful.

Here’s an interesting thing I found out by being an idiot: (Green Streamer Boss)

Like an idiot I destroyed his sheath on the first turn and he immediately started his instant death attack. I managed to struggle through only loving up once (thanks 1-up shroom) and came out victorious.

When I did the rematch in the boss fighting machine I didn’t destroy his sheath and... you get Ice Vellumental panels?!?! Did I just miss them the first time or is your punishment really no ice powers? That’s kinda mean tbh the ice makes the battle way less stressful.


I did it the intended way the first time and then broke the sheath during my rematch and I can definitely confirm that if you just go for it, they force you to do it "the hard way" without Vellumental panels the whole way through.

Morbi
Aug 7, 2013

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I don't know if it's just because I'm a freak who constantly jumps into spatial puzzle games and is waiting on bated breath for HAL to make another Picross 3D game, but seeing people talking about this game's puzzle system like it's incomprehensible is pretty surreal. This game is pretty reserved with its harder layouts until the second half, and even then, it gives you a huge number of handicap options if you need it to the point of letting you just skip it, if you want.
If anything, I wish it had gone even harder with it in places. I remember absolutely losing my mind when I saw what the Origami Boo gimmick was, and the game never really takes the concept up another step like that again.

Morbi
Aug 7, 2013

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This game is pretty low-end on the puzzle difficulty scale outside of the trial-and-error in boss fights, so I... guess you are?

Morbi
Aug 7, 2013

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loquacius posted:

This is a good game and I like it a lot but was anybody else completely blindsided by the dark tone it took on Bob-ombs which is not shared by any other game in the series?

Like, after Paper Mario 1 and TTYD had Bombette and Bobbery exploding willy-nilly because you wanted to get a Super Shroom on the other side of a wall or whatever, this one had me spend a chapter and a half wondering why Bob-omb wasn't doing any explosions before suddenly learning they actually kill him and now I have a sub-objective to cheer up the mascot sidekick character because a party member's shocking suicide has left her too depressed to continue the quest. Do kids play this game?


This is mostly a consequence of the first two Paper Marios being the only games in the entire franchise that play fast and loose with the nature of Bob-omb lives in order to make Bob-omb partners actually practical. In all other appearances (including, actually, the other Paper Mario games featuring them), it's pretty overt that Bob-ombs are mass-produced, one-time explosives that just happen to also have sapience, and I appreciate that TOK takes a couple of moments to explore how hosed up that is. There's been a lot of hand-wringing about how they could have at least given Bobby uniquely-colored shoes or the like, but I would argue that his character arc wouldn't be anywhere near as strong if he wasn't designed to be, literally, generic cannon fodder.

Morbi
Aug 7, 2013

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Araxxor posted:

There's like 50 songs per chapter. It's genuinely absurd. I wonder how much of the production values were spent just going towards the music.

This game had FIVE different composers and they all went unbelievably hard
I just blew my friend's mind by pointing out that percussion backing in Bobby's theme includes the sound of a turnkey clicking.

Morbi
Aug 7, 2013

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One very small, trivial nitpick since I've been watching other people's playthroughs:
For a game that insists on having so many cute faux-musical singalong moments, the localization did an uncharacteristically poor job at times writing lyrics that fit the melodies. "Go With The Flow" in particular, I have no loving clue how they intend to be sung with the way they try to have each single line fill two whole measures.

Morbi
Aug 7, 2013

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Amppelix posted:

also kensuke tanabe is not someone nintendo is going to get rid of lol

he's a producer on shittons of games not just the "haha i make paper mario bad" guy

A lot of people do not seem to realize that Tanabe has literally been with Nintendo since Doki Doki Panic/SMB2, which he directed, a fact that is probably not unrelated to how much love Birdo continues to get in newer Paper Mario titles.
The man co-wrote Link's Awakening (Which, again, may have had something to do with Wart getting a cameo beyond the shared "dream" theming), he's not going anywhere.

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Morbi
Aug 7, 2013

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Araxxor posted:

The scene after Bobby's sacrifice was really good with how it dwells on the immediate consequences and having to deal with it. And one thing I really liked about it was that Breezy Tunnel has basically the same tone as the rest of the game's quirky and comedic NPCs. It's just juxtaposed with the events that happened, showing you that life around goes on regardless, and it's a pretty conflicting feeling on top of what just happened. I think it's a really strong piece of writing the more I think about it.

I admit, it's been a little frustrating seeing the people committed to hating the game without giving it a fair shake because of the development politics deliberately spoil themselves and then simply write off Bobby's death as "baby's first heroic sacrifice" without learning about the way more sobering plot beats of then having to see Mario console his grieving child companion, or later on, Olivia's inability to understand the permanence of death after seeing the identical Bob-Omb troops in Bowser's Castle.

I got around to playing Color Splash for the first time a week or so before TOK came out, and while it had a lighter tone on the whole, that game also clearly started the thread of Intelligent Systems commenting on the disposable nature of Bowser's minions that continued into this one. Not just with the Sunset Express Shy guy either, it's all over the place, the game often doesn't distinguish between "real" enemies and minions who will chat you up until you walk up to them, and there's an uncomfortable amount of gags where they admit you're probably going to kill them someday and that's Just How Things Go.

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