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Not sure about other brands, but some of the reading I've done suggests Teslas keep track of how many kwhs they've charged via DC and drops your peak charge rate at a certain point to protect battery health. They don't distinguish between 10kwh at 25kw and 10kwh at 200kw either, so having a DCFC at home is probably less desirable for that reason alone.
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Jul 15, 2020 04:03
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Elviscat posted:Oh yeah, if you live in the greater Seattle area and want someone to look at your service to see if it supports an EVSE, or help you install a 14-50 or 6-50 for an EVSE, PM me or post your email in this thread, I have a lot of time off and love getting more people into EVs. I might hit you up in like 6 months. Or maybe not because the housing market is awful again
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Jul 15, 2020 04:05
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14-50 is the best choice because the cost to install would be similar but if you have capacity issues a 14-30 is perfectly fine for residential use. A 30A charger can deliver 5.7kw an hour which should be good for 20-30 miles of range. I'm having a hard time imagining a residential use case that would need much more than that.
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Jul 15, 2020 04:07
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RZA Encryption posted:Not sure about other brands, but some of the reading I've done suggests Teslas keep track of how many kwhs they've charged via DC and drops your peak charge rate at a certain point to protect battery health. They don't distinguish between 10kwh at 25kw and 10kwh at 200kw either, so having a DCFC at home is probably less desirable for that reason alone. As for why I'm even pondering the possibility of home fast charging. In part, I just want to know what's possible, but also it would provide so much flexibilty in my use especially since the supercharger situation in my area is less than ideal. I recognize that it's not likely for residential but I could imagine a scenario where I could go in with a friend to get a private set up built on their commercial property/shop. Yuns fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 04:12
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gwrtheyrn posted:I might hit you up in like 6 months. Or maybe not because the housing market is awful again Please do! It's a nightmare out there though, good luck  Yuns posted:Tesla commented on one owner that exclusively used DC fast charging and confirmed that his car charging permanently throttled to protect the battery. The salesman who sold me my Leaf drives one, and says he exclusively charges using the CHAdeMO charger at the dealership, because it's free. I'd like to see how long his battery lasts.
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Jul 15, 2020 04:18
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Also Elviscat, could a 400A split phase home circuit deal with the Bosch charging station (208Vac-277Vac single phase power input) if you could somehow get a breaker and wiring that could deal with the 165A? EDIT: a little research seems to show that the answer is no but wanted to confirm.
Yuns fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 04:24
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Elviscat posted:The salesman who sold me my Leaf drives one, and says he exclusively charges using the CHAdeMO charger at the dealership, because it's free. I'd like to see how long his battery lasts. Maybe he gets a screaming deal on degraded warranty-replaced batteries  I guess while we're talking about silly charging, how much would it take to have a house be able to support one of those 80A clipper creek chargers? Presumably, you'd want/need more than 200 amp service for that, right? gwrtheyrn fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 04:28
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Since we're on electricity chat, I have a quick question. My house has 200a service. The detached garage is powered by a 50a breaker. I basically don't use the garage for anything but storing yard equipment and the odd project. For a future EV, I'd like to have a 240v outlet installed. I should be able to have a 30a outlet installed without running a new line right? and I'd need one from the house to the garage if I wanted 50a? This would make the 30a option cheaper?
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Jul 15, 2020 05:11
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Yuns posted:Also Elviscat, could a 400A split phase home circuit deal with the Bosch charging station (208Vac-277Vac single phase power input) if you could somehow get a breaker and wiring that could deal with the 165A? EDIT: a little research seems to show that the answer is no but wanted to confirm. Absolutely! You'd do an install very similar to a house with an electric furnace, one 200A meter and panel for house services, another for the big load, the charger in this case, expensive, but it shouldn't be technically difficult, I've done a couple 400A residential services, one for my parents for the electric furnace, one for a literal loving mansion. Do you have a link to that big boy Bosch charger? I'd love to look at the specs. gwrtheyrn posted:Maybe he gets a screaming deal on degraded warranty-replaced batteries It depends! There are load calculations in the front of the NEC (National Electric Code) that you'd have to use to figure it out (available for free from the NFPA if you sign up), basically you calculate up all your big loads (oven, hot water, dryer) add a certain W/sq ft for hotel services, lights etc, and another W/sq ft for electric heat. Spitballing, I'd guess if you have Natural Gas for heat and hot water, a moderately sized house, and no extra big loads (hot tub, jacuzzi) you could fit 80A on a 200A service, that's about the size of an electric on-demand "instant" hot water heater, for example, and I've fit those on 200A panels again. Disclaimer: my journeyman's card has been expired for 10 years and local regulations vary. E: Endymion FRS MK1 posted:Since we're on electricity chat, I have a quick question. My house has 200a service. The detached garage is powered by a 50a breaker. I basically don't use the garage for anything but storing yard equipment and the odd project. For a future EV, I'd like to have a 240v outlet installed. I should be able to have a 30a outlet installed without running a new line right? and I'd need one from the house to the garage if I wanted 50a? This would make the 30a option cheaper? Yup, you can install a NEMA 14-50 or 6-50 on a 30A circuit as well, provided that: A: it's properly fused for the wire size and load (probably #8 and a 40A breaker in your case) B: the load is not more than 80% of the circuit rating for continuous use (24A or about 5.76kw for a 30A circuit, or 32A or 7.68kw for a 40A circuit, a lot of cars have a 6kw onboard charger is why I recommend a 40A circuit) or 100% if the load is energized for.less than 4 hours at a time. You'll notice this Clippercreek is rated for 24A, very conveniently the maximum continuous load on a 30A circuit! Almost like they designed it that way! And it has a 14-50 amp plug on the end, this would be perfect for your application. Sorry if I'm misinterpreting what you said and mansplaining, but I think a lot of people see that a NEMA 14-50 is rated for 50A, and think they have to supply that outlet from a 50A circuit. How this works, btw, is the charger and car shake hands and get to know each other when you plug your car in, the EVSE on your wall goes "hey bro, I'm rated for a maximum of "x" amps" and the charger in the car goes "cool, cool, that's all I'll take then, brother" my EVSE is a no-name, but is really cool in that I can set it to 16, 24 or 32A, for use in a broad variety of applications, some of the real fancy ones like the Chargepoint you can set the exact amount of current to feed your car via an app or some poo poo, it's wild! Elviscat fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 05:13
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Thanks for answering all our naive questions!Elviscat posted:Absolutely! You'd do an install very similar to a house with an electric furnace, one 200A meter and panel for house services, another for the big load, the charger in this case, expensive, but it shouldn't be technically difficult, I've done a couple 400A residential services, one for my parents for the electric furnace, one for a literal loving mansion. Do you have a link to that big boy Bosch charger? I'd love to look at the specs. https://www.boschevsolutions.com/charging-stations/ev2000-series?sku=EL-52240 You can literally order it off Amazon.
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Jul 15, 2020 05:34
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Nissan stream is up if anyone cares to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbo4-2tH3qk looks like they haven't actually started yet
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Jul 15, 2020 05:50
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For those who want to do their own load-calculations: I'd post the relevant pages highlighted, but I think it'd be  . Big takeaways are, 3W per square foot for general house loads and lighting (referred to as "volt-amperes" by the NEC, volt-amps and Watts are equivalent terms for a residential service, on 3phase systems you have to consider inductive and capacitive loading, is why that's distinguished that way) then 100% of the nameplate rating of any dedicated appliance circuit, 100% heating load for furnace/heat pump/AC (take the biggest of heat or AC loads, don't need room for both for obvious reasons) 65% of your installed heating capacity nameplate rating for 4 or less baseboards, 40% for more than four. Divide the number you get by 240V, and that gives you how many amps of your service you need. There's a 70% demand rating allowance on wire sizing and stuff for residential services, so if you have a big honkin' 80A charger you might want to talk to your electrician about upsizing your feeder wire for a 100% rating, but in practice I doubt it'll matter, load calcs are pretty conservative as is.If you want to dig through the source material for all this: -the good stuff starts on section 220.40 of the NFPA 70, also known as the National Electric code. -the NFPA are fuckers, I'm pretty sure they're required by law to provide the NEC for free, but they act like it's out of some kind of charity thing. -Anyways, to get free access to the NEC, go to NFPA.org, search around until you find a link saying "free.... Actually I think I can link it https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=70 LMK if that works, otherwise dig around until you get an online version of NFPA 70 *unhinged rant about the NFPA removed*
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Jul 15, 2020 05:56
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Elviscat posted:Yup, you can install a NEMA 14-50 or 6-50 on a 30A circuit as well, provided that: I'd assumed that a 14-50 needed a 50a circuit, yeah. I guess one of my main concerns was since the 50a breaker to my garage is supplying 42a there, I can't run that 40a breaker plus something off the 15a outlets since that'd lead to 44a total? Like what if I needed to charge my car while I'm rapid charging my garden tool batteries and drill batteries or whatever? That was kind of my thought behind sticking with a 14-30 outlet, to leave leeway for the rare times I needed to do multiple things  I was mostly referencing this from Tesla. What I'd more than likely do in the future is get a Model 3 and use the mobile connector with one of their adapters.
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Jul 15, 2020 06:00
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gwrtheyrn posted:Nissan stream is up if anyone cares to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbo4-2tH3qk looks like they haven't actually started yet This is live now Elviscat posted:For those who want to do their own load-calculations: Cool poo poo. It's kinda a moot point right now since no vehicle will take 80A as far as I know. The korean cars are 7.2kw and TM3 is like 11kw. Would be funny to have though
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Jul 15, 2020 06:01
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Yuns posted:Thanks for answering all our naive questions! No problem! I love this stuff. That's an awesome charging unit, I'm surprised anyone's produced something like that. I bet your local utility will let you add a second service just for that, should be a relatively simple install actually, it'd be pretty sweet too, because you'd get a bill every month telling you exactly how many $'s and kW are going into your EV. gwrtheyrn posted:This is live now Didn't some years of the Model S or Roadster come with dual 12kW chargers for a total of 24kW? Elviscat fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 06:05
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Nissan Ariya - CUV EV 4 models 2WD and AWD 2 batteries 63 kwh and 87 kwh no data on range yet 375 km recharged in 30 min water cooled Alexa integrated for voice control 0-100 kph in 5.1 seconds allegedly sportcar like handling AWD is called Eforce? and is based on GTR ATESSA and Patrol offroad Propilot 2.0 from Skyline series Floating center console that you can slide back and forth is kinda cool OTA software updates edit: ok maybe I missed it but there was no range data for the 4 models and it's not clear that 5.1 seconds refers to which model. Yuns fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 06:35
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Yuns posted:Nissan Ariya - CUV EV We can more or less estimate the range around 4x the kwh, so ~240 to 360 miles. It's a rough estimate but it will probably not land too far from that. You can also work back from their fast charging numbers for another estimate. Assuming it's a 10-80 charge in 30 minutes, that's ~334 miles of range at 100%. If you assume a 250Wh/mile rate, that's 117kW on average charging for 30 minutes Did you catch what they said around when they were talking about the 'intelligent key'? I thought i heard they said the door opens itself, which is a dumb feature. I hope it doesn't do that They also have built-in nav that will navigate including charging stops, which was a huge gap between tesla and everyone else. Obviously, still no superchargers, but it's a step up. 5.1s is almost certainly AWD. I'd assume the 87kwh model since larger batteries can pull more current safely gwrtheyrn fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 06:42
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Just noticed Alexa said 31% battery is 160 km so that suggests 100% is 516 km or 320.6 miles. Also he says the intelligent key opens the car automatically but I think they just mean that it unlocks automatically when you stand next to the door not literally opens. Just noticed it has the wide monitor in front but also a color HUD.  Nothing earth shattering but I think it'll be a very solid entry into the EV space and if they can get the price less than the e-tron or i-Pace or X and closer to the Y or Mach E price range, I think it'll be a serious player. I was initially put off by the front fascia but in all I like the exterior design as far as CUVs go and I love the copper color. Yuns fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 06:46
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Ok all the news sources say prices will start around 40k presumably for 2WD 63 kwh. I think that pricing makes it a serious contender. With the 7500 federal tax credit available and for example the 5000 NJ rebate and tax exemption that could mean driving away in one for $27,500 plus all fees. That would be an incredible deal for a modern EV CUV.
Yuns fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 07:00
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https://electrek.co/2020/07/15/nissan-unveils-40000-300-mile-ariya-electric-suv-with-liquid-cooled-battery/ From this article: 130kW DCFC, 7.2kW AC CCs for export models, charge port on passenger side (wtf why not driver) NMC CATL cells 40k starting price, 2nd half of 2021 for US delivery. Did anyone see if it's RWD or FWD for the 2WD model? I'd assume front, but I don't know for sure
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Jul 15, 2020 07:00
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Yuns posted:I was initially put off by the front fascia but in all I like the exterior design as far as CUVs go and I love the copper color. Honestly, I like what I'm seeing about it right now, but it is nissan and also it's not coming to the US until late 2021 so it's not an option for me
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Jul 15, 2020 07:04
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Yuns posted:Nissan ... Finally!
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Jul 15, 2020 07:05
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That's a hell of a deal if it retails near 35 (base) Nissan's been pretty solid EV tech wise, besides the noted dumb issues with their batteries, which this seems to fix. GTR/Patrol based AWD is interesting since it implies a single motor and t-case instead of multi-motor, but that tracks with the more conventional Leaf layout. E: more like 40k If they sell the AWD for around 45k out the door, I'll buy one second model year to replace the Leaf, assuming nothing better pops up Nissan's about 70,000 units from their cap on the Fed rebate from what I can find. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 07:05
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Elviscat posted:That's a hell of a deal if it retails near 35 (base) Nissan's been pretty solid EV tech wise, besides the noted dumb issues with their batteries, which this seems to fix. Also Nissan please make a ridiculous Nismo version with a sub-4 second 0-60 like the Tesla Performance model TIA.
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Jul 15, 2020 07:10
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Yuns posted:It's definitely independent dual motors for the AWD version so I'm not sure what they took of ATESSA. Ah, programming maybe? E: nvm, I'm sold: "The Ariya's grille has a large sunken area with a subtle pattern that's supposed to resemble a traditional Japanese kumiko design. It also has a slightly redesigned Nissan logo that lights up." Elviscat fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 07:12
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Elviscat posted:That's a hell of a deal if it retails near 35 (base) Nissan's been pretty solid EV tech wise, besides the noted dumb issues with their batteries, which this seems to fix. Elviscat posted:E: nvm, I'm sold: "The Ariya's grille has a large sunken area with a subtle pattern that's supposed to resemble a traditional Japanese kumiko design. It also has a slightly redesigned Nissan logo that lights up." I remember someone telling me that light up badges were illegal in the US. Is that not the case? The display model definitely had it though Here's what appears to be an official press release https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/re...ew-era%EF%BF%BC gwrtheyrn fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 07:21
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Wow, this looks super compelling. I had counted nissan out.
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Jul 15, 2020 07:31
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gwrtheyrn posted:I remember someone telling me that light up badges were illegal in the US. Is that not the case? The display model definitely had it though Mercedes-Benz has light up badges so that's a negatory. Hell the whole face of Mercurys used to light up.
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Jul 15, 2020 07:32
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quote:Ariya will also offer e-Pedal, which allows the driver to start, accelerate and decelerate using only the accelerator pedal. This sounds kinda awkward to use, but I'd be curious to see how it works.
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Jul 15, 2020 07:33
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Elmnt80 posted:This sounds kinda awkward to use, but I'd be curious to see how it works. That's already on the Leaf and maybe some other cars. Sounds like a love-it / hate-it kind of reaction from the few people I've talked to.
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Jul 15, 2020 07:34
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Yeah, the whole one-pedal thing is already on a bunch of cars. Pretty sure tesla effectively does that too. Hyundai/Kia don't quite do full stop by letting off the pedal unless you also hold the regen paddles. It's definitely an EV thing though. A lot of them let you change the amount of regen if it bothers you too much
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Jul 15, 2020 07:37
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You adapt to it surprisingly quickly.
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Jul 15, 2020 07:38
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gwrtheyrn posted:I saw something like 60k and they are supposedly selling about 10k units/yr right now. How does it work when they pass the 200k threshold, does everyone in the year get the full 7500 or is it reduced in some way for everyone or people past the 200k mark? The quarter that triggers the phase out and the one that follows it both get $7,500. After that, it cuts in half for two quarters, then cuts again, then is gone. So Tesla hit it in Q3 2018. It was cut in half on January 1st 2019 to $3,750. Then it was cut again last summer at the end of June to $1,875. Finally it was gone by January 1st, 2020. Same thing happened to general motors, but they passed it in Q4 2018. Theirs didn't cut the first time until April 1st of 2019. When it cut down to $1,875 last fall is when you started seeing insane deals on Bolt EVs pop up.
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Jul 15, 2020 08:00
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Westy543 posted:The quarter that triggers the phase out and the one that follows it both get $7,500. After that, it cuts in half for two quarters, then cuts again, then is gone. Cool, so no surprises--if they were under the limit when you bought, you're good to go. Also more ariya stuff. The european press releases have the specs broken down by model. https://uk.nissannews.com/en-GB/releases/nissan-ariya-an-all-electric-coupe-crossover-for-a-new-era . The 5.1s is unsurprisingly the AWD version with the big battery "performance" version. The slowest model is the FWD with the big battery at 7.6s 0-100km/h
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Jul 15, 2020 08:11
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Interest tidbit, it has CHAdeMO in Japan but is getting CCS in Europe and North America. Beginning of the end for CHAdeMO.
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Jul 15, 2020 08:15
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Elmnt80 posted:This sounds kinda awkward to use, but I'd be curious to see how it works. I can get something kinda close to this by shifting into "D/B" twice on my Leaf to get "B", basically it enables full regen when the gas pedal is released. It's very smooth and intuitive to use, especially when driving on twisty roads or in traffic with lots of speed changes.
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Jul 15, 2020 08:16
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Ola posted:Interest tidbit, it has CHAdeMO in Japan but is getting CCS in Europe and North America. Beginning of the end for CHAdeMO. CHAdeMO will live on. In our hearts. And China, apparently.
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Jul 15, 2020 08:19
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Ola posted:Interest tidbit, it has CHAdeMO in Japan but is getting CCS in Europe and North America. Beginning of the end for CHAdeMO. Wish they'd put the charger on the driver's side for all markets. Is this because japan drives on the other side of the road, or will the UK variant also have the charge ports on the passenger side?
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Jul 15, 2020 08:19
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gwrtheyrn posted:Wish they'd put the charger on the driver's side for all markets. Is this because japan drives on the other side of the road, or will the UK variant also have the charge ports on the passenger side? Maybe a dual thing like the e-tron, with Type 2 only on the passenger side and CCS on driver's side, as local market dictates. The pics from here at least show ports on both sides.   Like that color, nice with something other than white, black or grey.
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Jul 15, 2020 08:27
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The electrek article said the double side doors is only for japan domestic models with L2 on one side and DCFC on the other, and passenger side for presumably the US model. I guess maybe they'll have L2 on both sides, though I'd still prefer DCFC on drivers side so I don't have to walk around my car at an uncovered chargerquote:The charging port will be on the passenger side of the vehicle. In Japan, the Ariya will use the CHAdeMO standard with the port for DC quick charging on one side and Level 2 on the other.
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Jul 15, 2020 08:31
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