|
There's also a YOSPOS Tesla thread that I can only assume is much better than the CSPAM one (I'm never going into CSPAM). Why is The Sicilian banned anyway? I don't know who that is.
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2020 06:29
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 10, 2024 11:47 |
|
|
CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:The Sicilian was a really god awful poster who turned the first EV thread into a smoking crater with constant fights with pretty much anyone. That sounds like an impressively bad poster. I changed lanes approaching a light the other day to avoid a slow car and ended up being two cars back from a Smart car EV. As you'd expect, that was the worst possible choice of lanes to be in if you wanted to do at least the speed limit, but I'm not sure I've seen another Smart EV before? Maybe I just didn't notice them, but I certainly haven't heard anyone talk about them.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2020 06:47
|
|
|
ZeroHedge is definitely a site that should be taken with a HUGE grain of salt (maybe a salt mine) and really just not posted, but a lot of Seeking Alpha articles are very well researched (for example Montana Skeptic, who Musk doxxed). Be it a Twitter post or a Seeking Alpha article, if the post/article is citing Tesla's SEC filings and publicly available registration data from various jurisdictions, I think it's on people who have a problem with it to refute the point. It's been my experience that very few people bother to read what Tesla actually files with the SEC versus random headlines they see on CNBC or something similar. Here's a question for the thread rules - do we consider something like below appropriate for this thread? It's more autonomous vehicle related A German court just banned the use of the term "autopilot" for Teslas in Germany. This is not surprising, and if we were under any other regulatory environment than the current one in the US I would have expected the terms "autopilot" and "full self driving" to already have been banned from use by Tesla.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2020 16:24
|
|
|
That's a fairly large swing on the CO2 lifecycle balance including production being 30 to 60% lower than the diesel model. I wonder if the difference is based on power generation for the electricity used to charge it.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2020 21:23
|
|
|
I'm assuming they need to sell every one they make in the EU (at a loss if needed) so they can sell their high end / high margin cars and SUVs. Ola posted:Yes, that's exactly it. I think it's basically 30% better on the German grid, 60% on a fully renewable. Too bad the Germans shut down so much of their nuclear power, although I think their coal is finally dropping. I'd like to see exactly how detailed these projections get, I'd guess none of them are the point where they're considering the increased wear and tear on the road due to the weight of EVs, necessitating more frequent repairs. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but that seems like a rabbit hole with no end. *edit* Actually I was just thinking of Teslas with regards to weight, I don't know how something like a Volt compares to similarly sized cars. MomJeans420 fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Jul 14, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2020 21:55
|
|
|
Elviscat posted:I'm looking at wrecked Leafs and Miatas with blown engines, do y'all think the Leaf traction unit is small enough to stuff in the Miata's trunk? Build your own battery pack
|
|
#
¿
Jul 15, 2020 00:13
|
|
|
RZA Encryption posted:You adapt to it surprisingly quickly. I imagine it's quite similar to riding a motorcycle with a high-strung engine - I'm able to use engine braking to handle a huge amount of my braking needs, as long as it's not a quick stop. Electric car subsidies have rendered Renaults free in Germany
|
|
#
¿
Jul 15, 2020 16:18
|
|
|
Ola posted:You have to go there, maybe wait in line, sign the complicated forms, meander around the car park trying to find it by pressing the fob, etc... If you travel enough you can just sign up for the free Hertz gold rewards program or whatever it's called, I used to just arrive at the car place and pick up the keys from a board without talking to anyone then drive out. The only verification was by the security as you left the parking garage, and the whole process was easier than grabbing an Uber.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 15, 2020 23:37
|
|
|
Ola posted:I would much rather just sit for 45 minutes at a charger in my own car and look my phone, get lunch or use a nearby bathroom, than travel to/from a rental place even if I was Hertz Gold Senator Premium. Factor in having to fill it with gas at some point as well. Oh I agree, I was just saying if you travel frequently there are things you can do to make your life a lot easier. In previous jobs I've had a wide range of travel experiences, ranging from being gone Monday to Friday to being out of the country for two months at a time to traveling every other week, and nothing compares to being at home / being in your own vehicle. But if you do have to travel, you can minimize a lot of the pain points with a little effort up front. I don't have an EV so I don't rely on the charging infrastructure, but even in California I have noticed one thing that would make me think twice before a long road trip in a EV. My friends and I used to take road trips to various breweries before COVID-19, and when we went from LA to San Luis Obispo I noticed the supercharger station at the Madonna Inn had a huge line. A few months later that same station became famous for having comically long lines on the Thanksgiving holiday weekend, and I would have been pissed if I had to wait in that line. I guess now you know avoid the more crowded charging locations on holiday weekends, and I realize most people don't do 400 miles in a day to grab some beer, but had I required access to those chargers to get home it would have really messed up my day. Just another reason he may want to rent a car versus charging on long trips, but I have a feeling that is almost all charging location dependent.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2020 04:40
|
|
|
Elmnt80 posted:So explain your position on why its a bad business practice. I'm curious to hear your thoughts. It's not made clear it doesn't stay with the car, people have purchased cars that have FSD on the window sticker and then it's taken away (which would have factored into the purchase price), and it's the only thing you can pay thousands more for which now won't help you on resale. Those are the obvious factors, then you can add in that people have paid for it, owned the car for four years, never had a chance to use it (because it will never exist), and now don't even get the benefits when they sell the car. Musk has also drastically walked back his FSD claims in that now he considers it complete if the car could theoretically have a chance of driving across the country (got to realize that FSD revenue to post a profit), but realistically it's never going to arrive for any Tesla with the current hardware.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2020 18:50
|
|
|
big crush on Chad OMG posted:I can’t understand how Tesla can continue to sell vaporware for a car that it will never deliver on. Well, I can, but I don’t understand how it’s allowed by regulatory agencies. You'd think the FTC or some state Attorney General would have brought a claim by this point, but at least for blue states I think it wouldn't be a great idea politically so they don't do it. That's the only reason I can think of. See for example, Tesla defying orders in Alameda county just to reopen a few days early to make a point, they now have 130 employees with COVID-19 (they claim only 10 came from the factory, but that is very suspect), and no one in the local government did anything in response to them opening illegally. In EV charging news, this is what NY just announced:  (it's from this article which is behind a paywall)
|
|
#
¿
Jul 17, 2020 16:45
|
|
|
I wouldn't be arguing that Teslas are less prone to inadvertently moving into people / objects after the number of them that have crashed into store fronts in parking lots. The drivers blame unintended acceleration, others blame the driver accidentally stomping the throttle instead of the brakes, but even if it's the latter then maybe Joe Public isn't ready for awesome acceleration yet. But no matter the car, people will find a way to do really dumb things with them, it's not an EV/ICE distinction. Also braking power on any modern car is more than enough to engage ABS, your tires are going to be the biggest factor in stopping distances. If you're talking repeated hard braking like the track that's a different story with brake fade etc, but for day to day driving needs I can't imagine there are any modern vehicles that need an upgrade in braking power.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 21, 2020 18:50
|
|
|
And that's why you need to get your toddler their own gun, so they learn proper gun safety.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 21, 2020 18:56
|
|
|
Westy543 posted:Apparently at the Q2 earnings call, Tesla said they have eventual plans for a compact and a "higher capacity vehicle." My bet is long term they shut down Fremont and move all production to Texas
|
|
#
¿
Jul 23, 2020 17:44
|
|
|
The e-tron has been killing it in the EU, at least as far as BEV SUVs go (an admittedly limited market)
|
|
#
¿
Jul 24, 2020 20:00
|
|
|
I don't think batteries are incredibly constrained, it may depend on the market but Toyota is using Panasonic batteries in China, and anyone can go get CATL batteries. Panasonic has more unused capacity at GF1, but I imagine they're contractually bound to save them for Tesla. However, Tesla has renegotiated their arrangement many times in order to post a profit, so I'm surprised Panasonic has taken that opportunity to get some money out of what hasn't been a great investment for them.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 24, 2020 23:15
|
|
|
Nitrousoxide posted:Once ev's start to become more popular then getting charging available at state and national parks will become a thing and that will likely spread out into other more remote places. I would prefer state and national parks don't have charging stations for the same reason I don't want them to have gas stations
|
|
#
¿
Jul 28, 2020 18:55
|
|
|
Paywalled article about this study 
|
|
#
¿
Jul 29, 2020 18:16
|
|
|
but why?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 29, 2020 20:59
|
|
|
Darchangel posted:Because no one ever buys anything but trucks and SUVs, duh. Any auto manufacturer knows that! Electric pickup could have a market (larger than the nerds in AI, who don't count), but is there a huge electric Hummer market? Although if you assume most of them are used for driving to and from work and looking uncool when you pull up to the club, no reason they need to be ICE. angryrobots posted:Yes, ideally workplace charging becomes the norm which also shifts load to solar, but the article didn't say this was part of their study or the two given scenarios. The problem with workplace charging is it requires such a massive investment to your typical office building, and then I'm assuming they'll want to charge you for the power. But I'm not sure it's worth building the infrastructure to charge you for the power when your typical person wants to park there 8 or 10 hrs a day, then the charger isn't used the rest of the time.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 30, 2020 00:17
|
|
|
Ola posted:Are there regulations on how big an AC unit you can install in the US? Aren't huge central units pretty ubiquitous? Big ones must be multi-kW for sure. And in the peak hours of the late afternoon, people arrive home, open doors, let in hot air, the AC whirrs away no problem, the grid doesn't explode. It peaks in California in the summer around 6pm, when everyone gets home from work and turns on their AC (and other devices/lights). It makes for an interesting problem with solar because of what's known as the duck curve - solar power drops off right as power usage spikes, so you need to rapidly bring on natural gas power. Here is California's power usage from yesterday, along with the net demand (total demand minus renewables). You can see 10,000MW of power has to ramp up in 3 hours,  
MomJeans420 fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jul 30, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Jul 30, 2020 18:25
|
|
|
That's assuming it gets built for the stated cost, which is most likely not going to happen. California has looked into compressed air energy storage before, we don't have the salt caves that other places use but you can just use abandoned oil and gas reservoirs to store the air. However, the costs were so high (as of fairly recently) that it wasn't really an option compared to other forms of storage. I don't remember the numbers, but the state essentially said it wasn't worth it at this time. It's possible that is some sort of amazing breakthrough, but I'd be surprised if it's cheaper to manufacture tanks that can store liquid air in massive quantities than it is to just find a depleted reservoir and pump air into it. Same reason sometimes utilities store natural gas in old reservoirs rather than tanks. Also, to fully replace natural gas you need a lot more than that. I don't feel like trying to sum up the area under the line on the California ISO chart, but a simplistic approach is to take the 90,691 GWh generated in 2018 and divide by 365 to figure out the daily power (which is too low for the max you'll need as it's a lot higher in the summer than in the winter), which is 248 GWh. You need to store 248 GWh of power, but you also now need to generate an additional 248 GWh/day so it can be stored.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 30, 2020 20:02
|
|
|
Ola posted:Yeah there's definitely a lot more to it than just that, it was just for perspective. Then there's the round trip efficiency, so we need even more solar, etc. But it wasn't an infeasible sum to do just that. I wonder what building that many natural gas plants would cost. For another comparison, Tesla's big battery in Australia was $161 million for 193 MWh, $830k per MWh. The Manchester liquid air plant is 250 MWh for $111 million, $444k per MWh. I'll have to check that out, energy storage is one of the biggest problems to be solved, and IMO batteries are not going to be answer (at grid level). But also you have to figure out a lot of these plants have already been built so it's not like they're going to phase them out early and just waste all that money. *edit* A new natural gas plant is still insanely cheap in comparison, $700MM for a 828 MW power plant built in 2013. In other news, I know there is always talk of battery scarcity in this thread, sounds like Ford doesn't think it's an issue. (not an endorsement of Phil LeBeau) https://twitter.com/Lebeaucarnews/status/1288956157290328067?s=20 MomJeans420 fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Jul 30, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Jul 30, 2020 23:34
|
|
|
MrLogan posted:They blamed the hold up because they were waiting on a document from me for county permitting. I forwarded them the document which I had sent within 3 hours of them emailing. I had called the next day to confirm they had it; not sure how they went from yes, we have it to having no clue where the document was. Surely you've seen people try to coordinate buying a Tesla or getting it delivered in this very thread. Elviscat posted:I did some math last night, and estimated that providing the US with 100% non-fossil-fuel electricity would cost about $20trillion, just for installed capacity, that doesn't take in to account storage needs to account for the duck curve, and that's using Vogtle 3&4's massively over budget cost per MWh. A lot of that can come down, the AP1000 design wasn't 100% complete when they started building Vogtle, and getting the first new nuke permits in decades from FERC didn't help anything either. I'm a huge fan of nuclear but it's probably politically impossible to get it cheap enough to be competitive in the US. Somewhere like China is a different story. MomJeans420 fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Jul 31, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Jul 31, 2020 23:24
|
|
|
Elviscat posted:The AP1000 is such a good design for a PWR too, it'd be really nice to see it replace all the old reactor designs that have lovely passive cooling features, and poo poo like ice-condenser containment which is such an lol concept. I'm not on the engineering side but I work with people who are, and they were impressed with the AP1000's passive safety systems. One of those things that seem really obvious now, but weren't done before for one reason or another. Indiana_Krom posted:Yeah, my Model 3 is awesome, but this company is hilariously inept at customer service. My experience buying it was pretty bad, but I got through it mostly thanks to a competent sales advisor who went the extra mile to get it done for me. I was also fortunate to not have any QC issues with the vehicle itself. It may depend on where you live. Just from my friends that own Teslas, it seems it's easier if you live near Silicon Valley or LA.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 1, 2020 19:59
|
|
|
Yuns posted:As a rider, I'm not super enamored of EV motorcycles. The problem is that most motorcycles already have insane power to weight and the acceleration problems mostly have to do with keeping the front end down. An EVs torque benefit therefore isn't that great and the added weight of the battery and motors can make it less nimble and therefore overall slower in corners. I haven't ridden an electric bike yet, but I agree that the instant torque doesn't sound as exciting as it is for a car. My bike "only" has 123 hp and not much torque at lower RPMs, but as you said my biggest issue with acceleration is keeping the front end down.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 2, 2020 19:46
|
|
|
In Southern California the only time Teslas stand out are when I see a Model X and I'm reminded just how ugly those things are
|
|
#
¿
Aug 3, 2020 01:56
|
|
|
Yuns posted:Ummm I've managed to kill a Shorai in one of my motorcycles by fully discharging it by leaving my key in it to the point where it couldn't be recharged or saved. While I've switched to them in all my motorcycles and run them 4 seasons for weight reasons; they definitely can be killed. I think it's the EarthX ones or something similar that have a pretty smart onboard circuit that won't let them run down until they're dead, and other fancy features. I know there's someone in AI who's all about lithium batteries, but I don't remember who that was.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 4, 2020 02:06
|
|
|
Elmnt80 posted:*points to rules regarding sources, points to electrek links, gesticulates wildly* That would be true for most manufacturers, but Tesla is pretty well known for not responding to press inquiries so I wouldn't expect a press release from them on anything negative. *edit* But there is a BBC article about it now, but they probably just used Google translate on the same German blog that everyone else used. MomJeans420 fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Aug 5, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Aug 5, 2020 20:24
|
|
gimmicky poo poo is that), but a release from the manufacturer or an english language german paper might be the better option. Less chance of mistakes or garbled translations.
|
I didn't know people were still trying to drive Tesla roadsters, even in LA I haven't seen one in many years https://twitter.com/JeffreyFarber/status/1289568814263279617?s=20
|
|
#
¿
Aug 7, 2020 20:30
|
|
|
That seems insanely low for insurance? *edit* oh is the e-tron your second car?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 12, 2020 04:21
|
|
|
Long_Tine_Spork posted:Not strictly EV related, but it does require EVs! LOL at so many items in this.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 13, 2020 19:56
|
|
|
As someone who did LA -> Aliso Viejo -> LA every day for two years, and also frequently does LA -> Carlsbad -> LA, I have to agree that is a poo poo-rear end commute. I almost bought a natural gas Crown Vic to use the carpool lane, but in the end it was easier to just use it and not worry about it because realistically you won't get pulled over. Now I just take the bike, but that's not a relaxing time when you're splitting lanes for most of the drive.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 14, 2020 07:50
|
|
|
The i3 EU numbers are a little more than 50% of 2019's numbers, so not great but not nearly as bad as the US.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 14, 2020 19:12
|
|
|
Ola posted:Hard to capture how steep, rugged and beautiful the scenery is as well. Someone who captures is better and really gorges themselves on the scenery are speed flying paragliders: This video stresses me out
|
|
#
¿
Aug 15, 2020 08:07
|
|
|
Shai-Hulud posted:I might be talking out of my rear end but it feels like a lot of other companies could do what Teslas autopilot can do but choose not to. I think a Tesla customer is more willing to accept a kinda working technology compared to someone who buys a brand new BMW or Mercedes. This is exactly it, a system that works 99% of the time is still completely unacceptable for a system that doesn't do driver monitoring. Liability reasons alone are why the traditional manufacturers are doing things like Cadillac's Super Cruise vs having the public run beta versions of software. Anyone could have licensed Mobileye's technology (what Tesla originally used for "autopilot" but Mobileye didn't like how Tesla was using it so they refused to renew Tesla's contract), but they'd have to use it in a more common sense manner (see this article with Mobileye's CEO).
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2020 19:46
|
|
|
I hadn't thought of that, but COVID-19 does kind of mess with the traditional "just grab lunch as you're charging on long trips" part of the EV narrative. Nfcknblvbl posted:I'm surprised Tesla never installed things similar to this along remote highways. Musk tweeted years ago (2016?) that Tesla was going to install battery packs and solar at every supercharger so people could charge even when the power is out. About 10 seconds of thought will show you the solar idea was never going to work, and batteries would be prohibitively expensive if you were going to handle up to 1,500 cars per day (that's what the V3 superchargers are supposed to be able to handle, I have no idea how many vehicles a station typically sees).
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2020 16:49
|
|
|
On the one hand the last thing any Audi needs is more electrical stuff to break, on the other hand this keeps their engineers from doing crazy things with timing chains *edit* I don't think Audi particularly cares about selling the etron in the US right now. It's the top selling EV SUV in the EU for 2020 though. MomJeans420 fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Aug 21, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2020 18:30
|
|
|
Ola posted:Why is it so important to give Tesla competition? I think we're still at the point where the interesting competition is anything EV vs anything not EV. It's not really that interesting when 99% of the market is driven by subsidies and regulations. Change the regulations and the EV numbers go up or down.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2020 18:55
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 10, 2024 11:47 |
|
|
I thought it was something to make people less worried about the life of the battery. You pay for car minus the battery, then lease the battery from the manufacturer. I also haven't seen that in a long time, I assume that's not available on new cars but I haven't looked at buying a car in the EU.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 22, 2020 08:14
|
|