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Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Wibla posted:



A bigger issue is that they're now throttling supercharging for older cars with the 85 kWh battery, because they don't want the batteries to wear out and have to replace them within the 8 year battery/drivetrain warranty period. That's some scummy poo poo.

Is the 8 year battery warranty for used vehicles and second/third etc owners too?

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Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


That doesn't surprise me. I bet the margin on an etron sucks compared to an ice full size luxury SUV.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


dialhforhero posted:

I can then only assume that since no e-Golfs are sold new in my region I am SOL on maintenance.

I was browsing Carvana so welp.

Check out a Hyundai Ioniq EV (not hybrid) if you're looking on Carvana. Better range than the eGolf, charges faster, very efficient and can be had for in the teens.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Bum the Sad posted:

Here in Texas the utility company will blow up my phone on days where it’s 100+ begging me to turn my AC to 78.

Are you running it lower and they want you to not use as much electricity?

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Bum the Sad posted:

It's a blanket text to all customers. They do have some creepy rebate program where they can control it though with creep thermostats. gently caress that, it's 72 during the day and 68 at night. I'm not a savage.

When I lived in Houston, I think we had it that low due to it being a soupy mess outside in the summer. I now live in one of the hottest (dry heat) places in the country and we never have our house under 78. Maybe i'm broken now from living in southern Arizona, but anything under 78 and I get chilly.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Gamesguy posted:


6. Audi MMI took some getting used to, I don't like how it requires a fairly forceful push to activate the on screen buttons. Initially I thought the screen wasn't working but then realized I wasn't pressing hard enough. I would have preferred a non-touchscreen climate control system but they were able to cram other functions onto the screen. What would've really been nice is if you could use the MMI on one screen and android auto on a different screen. But like on most cars you can't - AA takes over the main screen. The default navigation is probably one of the best on the market, but why would I ever use it when I can use waze instead?


I believe there is a way to disable this in the menu system somewhere. Good luck finding it.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


MomJeans420 posted:

Very positive article on the Polestar 2 - I have to admit I'm not wild about the back, but rather than being hideously ugly like the Model X I think it's more just fairly generic looking, which may be a positive for the Volvo demographic.

Environmental problems with mining for nickel - ignore the headline, it's not only talking about Tesla. Apparently Indonesia will account all the growth in nickel supplies over the next decade. I'm not sure if this is behind a paywall or not, I think they let you read a few articles for free but I forget.

quote:

Tesla’s nickel quest highlights metal’s environmental burden
Waste linked to mining of key EV battery component threatens marine life

Indonesia is expected to account for almost all of the growth in nickel supplies over the next decade © Reuters


Elon Musk’s call for miners to dig more nickel for Tesla’s batteries faces its biggest test in Indonesia, where companies in the world’s top producing nation are planning to dump millions of tonnes of waste into the sea.
Mr Musk said on an earnings call last month that Tesla would give a “giant contract” to companies that could mine nickel “efficiently and in an environmentally sensitive way,” in response to a question about the biggest constraint on the electric car maker he runs.
The chief executive’s remarks reflect a growing anxiety in the electric car industry over supplies of the industrial metal, which is vital for boosting the range of electric car batteries. Demand for nickel, which is also used in stainless steel, is expected to increase six-fold by 2030.
Analysts predict that Indonesia will account for almost all of the growth in nickel supplies over the next decade, overwhelming output from new mines in Canada and Australia. But a number of Chinese-backed projects in the country plan to dump mine waste containing metals such as iron into the sea, in an area renowned for its unique coral reefs and turtles.
“It could undermine the entire proposition of trying to sell a consumer a product that is environmentally friendly, if you have this back story,” said Steven Brown, a Jakarta-based consultant and former employee at nickel miner Vale.
Planned Indonesian nickel projects
That presents a problem for carmakers such as Tesla and Volkswagen, which have pledged to soften the environmental impact of their batteries. “At some point it will happen where they can’t avoid Indonesian nickel,” said Mr Brown.
Nickel is the most expensive metal in an electric car battery after cobalt, trading at $15,320 a tonne. Electric vehicle makers are increasingly moving to nickel-rich technologies because the metal improves the battery’s energy density, enabling vehicles to drive further on one charge.
Indonesia’s president Joko Widodo is keen to capitalise on that rising demand and hopes to make the country the world’s centre for nickel processing and battery production. In January, in order to boost the domestic processing industry, Indonesia banned exports of raw nickel ore.
But converting rock that contains about 1 per cent nickel into a form suitable for batteries produces large amounts of waste. If all the announced projects in the North Maluku and Central Sulawesi areas go into production they could produce 50m tonnes of waste a year, according to Mr Brown.


The Harita Group, which is building a project on central Obi Island backed by China’s Ningbo Lygend, has said it is conducting a feasibility study on disposing of the waste at more than 200 metres below sea level, from where it will flow to the seabed. Harita did not respond to a request for comment.
At least eight mining projects worldwide use deep sea waste disposal, according to NGO Earthworks — including three in neighbouring Papua New Guinea and two projects that dump waste into fjords in Norway.
French nickel producer Eramet has called for the practice to be banned. The company is investing in a nickel project in Weda Bay in Indonesia but will build a dam on land that will store dry waste, it said.
“The European and American markets will not accept this solution,” said Samuel Dufay, Eramet’s vice-president for environment, referring to deep-sea disposal.
Environmental activist Pius Ginting of AEER, an Indonesian non-governmental organisation, said many companies were choosing the method because it was cheaper than an inland waste dam. But he noted that it threatens to damage an area known as the Coral Triangle that is rich in coral reefs and tropical fish.
Adding to concerns: a spill starting in April 2019 at the Chinese and Canadian-owned Ramu nickel and cobalt processing plant in Papua New Guinea, which also disposes of its waste in the deep sea.
Alex Mojon, a mining and environmental consultant from the Swiss Association for Quality and Environmental Management, who was asked by the provincial government in Madang to assess the PNG project, said harmful fine particles remained in suspension in the seawater and were carried by currents over a much larger area, including to beaches of the archipelago islands.
Worries over the impact of waste disposal in Indonesia will probably delay the development of nickel processing plants, said Jim Lennon, an analyst at Macquarie, adding that Harita’s project is the only one likely to begin before 2022.
Even so, he said, “we do see a huge reliance on the global EV market on Indonesia as a supply source.”
That leaves electric car makers in a position of swapping one environmental harm for another, said activists.
“The net result is we have clean air in our cities — but then we destroy a rich biodiversity area,” said Mr Ginting.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


knox_harrington posted:

The options list is ferocious.

New Porsche thread title.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Shai-Hulud posted:

Congrats on the car but electrical mirrors and autodimming mirrors as options on a 100k car? Jesus Porsche....

First time browsing a Porsche price sheet eh?

Wait till you see the $1000 stitched P crests in the seats.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


90MPH??? Is everyone driving like crazy or is there no one on the road?

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


MrLogan posted:

I mean, if you want a car with a bad interior, poor reliability, goes fast in a straight line, and costs a lot then Tesla is the natural progression point from BMW.

:vince:

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


knox_harrington posted:

10 minutes in and he's still dribbling on about electrify america

Having your software be undercooked to not use the charging network you built is downright embarrassing.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007



Holy poo poo i hate how they talk during these things. "SAYING SPECS SLOWLY AND KIND OF LOUD"

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Sonic Dude posted:

Everyone who is saying that acceleration is just for fun should go take a motorcycle safety course. There are 4 directions out of any hazardous situation, and brakes only enable one of those. Especially when you’re already moving at relatively high speed, stopping to avoid a hazard may not be an option, and around/past is your best choice.

Acceleration is also very fun.

I bought an EV for the latter reason.

This is as dumb in this discussion as it is in a motorcycle discussion. Everyone who says "oh man my motorcycle is too slow for the highway" are just poo poo riders. If you've put yourself in a situation where the ONLY way out is quickly accelerating, you've failed already and need to figure out why you ended up there so it doesn't happen again. Generally you shouldn't be adding speed to any hazardous situation.


wolrah posted:

Exactly. There are a few clips out there of people avoiding getting rear ended while stopped due to traffic by using EV acceleration to get on the shoulder or otherwise get out of the way. I'm sure that ability is even more important to two-wheelers when some dipshit doesn't see them.



Most drivers aren't even aware of being in traffic much less checking their mirrors for getting rear ended. This is an extremely out there example. You could perform it in a regular car as well if that's something you're used to checking for (ie you're probably a motorcycle rider).

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Godzilla07 posted:

The MX-30 in the U.S. is definitely a compliance car. $34K for 100 miles of range and 143 HP.

I'm hoping they had to rush this out due to lack of money/compliance reasons and gen 2 is going to be really good. Then all the reviewers can say "this is what it should have been in the first place".

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


I think I've seen half a dozen ID4 already, seems like the second most popular EV on the road after tesla.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


So my mom has a model 3 on order (standard range model). Initially they were saying November but now it's pushed back to January. Then the sales guy at the pick up center (same one who helped her with test drive) said that there might be some new battery chemistry model 3s available sooner, but only have 250mi of range.

Is this just sales bullshit? New chemistry having lower range? Seems funky.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Yup that sounds like the exact thing the guy was talking about. Thanks EV thread!

This is an order in the midwest.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Where can I watch a Tesla self drive into the ocean?

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Sonic Dude posted:

For the Model 3, Car & Driver (in between their love letters to the Mach-E) measured 30-50 in 1.4s and 50-70 in 2.0s. I suspect not needing to downshift has a lot to do with that. That’s on a car with a 3.5s 0-60 time, so adjust accordingly for the Plaid’s sub-2s launch.

I think the instant torque is second only to regen braking on the list of things that you have to adjust to when driving an EV. It’s fun as hell to press the accelerator and just be at a faster speed, but it can be extremely disconcerting when you’re in an unfamiliar or uncomfortable situation, and the car behaves in a way you don’t intuitively expect.

In those two ways an ev is quite a bit like a motorcycle.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


My mom is kinda tech challenged sometimes. She loves her new model 3 though! I know she can go take a class at the pick up location but it's a little far. Are there other good resources for learning all the little options besides just playing with the screen?

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


cruft posted:

Both of our cars were gone when I got a data center alert, so I rode my bike into work, road construction made me the bottleneck on a 2-lane road. Twice. Now I'm recovering from an asthma attack from trying to bust rear end uphill. I doubt the drivers noticed the difference between my top speed of 11mph and my still-able-to-breathe speed of 8mph.

Anyway, I'm on board with this plan now.

You were not the bottleneck. You were using the road on a legal vehicle (a bicycle). Go at a speed you're comfortable. If cars had to wait an extra 30 seconds, gently caress em.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


bird with big dick posted:

The Mach has the same range as a Y they just don’t lie about it like Tesla.

Edit: I'm wrong! Google docs is hard on small phone screen, wrong row.

Looks line the LR rwd beats out the Y and the awd is about the same.

Russian Bear fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Oct 9, 2021

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


bird with big dick posted:

Edmunds range tests are 344 (Mach e) and 263 (Y)

317 for the long range Y on their chart. I'm probably getting battery capacities mixed up or something. I'm not familiar with their test methodology either.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


dk2m posted:

I moved to the Bay Area during the summer this year and gas prices are some real poo poo out here. I’m getting some really good offers on my RS3 and I’m supposed to be commuting back to the office in January, which will be a 30-40 mile round trip. I really don’t feel like a) putting a ton of miles on this b) spending absurd money on fillups if I can avoid it. I’ve pretty much decided to trade this in for a sensible daily and get a second dedicated fun car somewhere down the line

I’m starting to now look at plug in hybrids as probably the Most Sensible choice as I have the option to charge both at my apt and work - is there anything on the horizon that makes sense waiting for or is there some current unanimous choice in this segment? I also need to understand how California treats these as I don’t think you can use plug in hybrids on HOV lanes.

RAV4 Prime would cover your commute and give you weekend trip ability if you wanted one car. But literally any EV will work for you, even if you wanted to get something older and used if you're going to be able to charge at home and have a second ice fun car.

Ok Comboomer posted:

EV Thread Mk 3: Niro fiddled while Bolt burned

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


My mom bought a model 3 (just to go point a to b!) because she lives in a Midwest state that doesn't have any other EVs for sale new. Before you say "but shipping a car!", please, my mom and I assume most average car buyers can't be bothered to figure that poo poo out.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Jimong5 posted:

speaking of ID 4 I test drove one of those today, I liked the driving dynamics more than the Y, (I cannot stress how awful that turn stalk is, it's like almost disqualifying for me) and that turning radius on the ID is insane. The acceleration was pretty disappointing, the Volt/Bolt has more oomph. Maybe the AWD version is better. Not a huge fan of the touch controls but they are way less awful than I thought they would be. Would probably pay for the Audi to get away from them. The thing about the Y is the amount of storage they pack into that thing is absurd, the ID was pretty disappointing after seeing the Tesla. As someone over 6 ft I can confirm that the rear headroom in the ID is not enough.

Probably gonna look at a Mach E next but the local Ford dealers are looking shady and jacking the price on in stock models.

What's so bad about the turn stalk? I don't have experience with any new teslas but I don't remember anything too weird in the model s I drove.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Ioniq EV as well. Depending on your definition of small.

Russian Bear fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Oct 17, 2021

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Ulf posted:

Pfft only because you’ve put four wheels on your EVs :brap:

(Though my horribly unaero Zero still draws that at around 90mph)

How do you like your Zero? Any surprises with ownership? I've been thinking of trying one at the local dealer as they always have demo bikes.

VVV That sounds like the slimiest car sales person bullshit VVV

Russian Bear fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Oct 20, 2021

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Not strictly an EV, but thought i'd post this because in our situation 1 car and 1 e assist bicycle is pretty ideal as far as household vehicles go. When it comes time to replace the honda fit, it'll be with an electric car of some sort. If you live in a place with ok bicycle infrastructure, give an e bicycle a try, they're a ton of fun even for experienced, able bodied "cyclists" and can be a great car replacement.

We just added a Specialized Como to the vehicle family:

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


cruft posted:

When we got our electric car, we immediately stopped using the bicycles. At all.

I still ride mine around when ms cruft and cruft jr have both of the cars. But after like 4 years of them sitting out in the fietsenhok in the driveway, rusting, I put their bikes into the storage shed. It's kind of sad. We used to be big bicycling advocates, and event got certified by the League of American Bicyclists to teach classes.

Tell me more about your electric bikes. How much did the cost, how do you charge them, what's the range and top speed, how do they handle, can you carry groceries...

So this is a Specialized Turbo Como 4.0. It has a 500wh battery (and the 2022 version now has an even bigger battery, but it costs a little more) and as far as range goes, specialized has a little calculator app. If I put my height and weight (6'4, 205lb) and keep it on the flats in eco mode (best scenario), the range is 65 miles. The 2022 versions of these bikes will have even more range. Basically it's more than your average person would use in one ride. Make sure you use a reasonable estimate for average speed for your ride... you're probably not average more than 12 miles an hour with stops etc. But best of all? It doesn't matter! Specialized has an app where you can even set it to give you the maximum assist for let's say the 2 hour ride you're going to do. Or like most people, just modulate the level of assist yourself. It's an electronic assist bicycle.. meaning that you have to pedal to get help from the motor. This is an important distinction because many people thing there's a throttle on all ebikes, but that would put it into being a different class of bike that's usually not allowed on bike paths etc, although if you're being reasonable no one will care. So typically ebikes from bicycle manufacturers like trek, spec, cannondale etc. will never have a throttle.

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/turbo-calculator/app

This 2021 retails for $3750 if you can find one in stock, the 2022 versions are being bumped up to 4k. Yes i see you recoiling in horror, that's so much money! It is, but these are some of the best ebikes around (best as far as smoothness and integration), so that's expected. There are less expensive options from this brand and Trek etc; these start at 3250 for the 2022 base version with a 530wh battery - so even better than the one we have for less money.

The top speed on this bike is 28 mph, but you do have to put some effort to actually get up to that speed with full assist on since it multiplies your effort x4 and I don't expect that people are going to be going more than 20 mph in this nice upright pedaling position in general.

The handling is very solid since the bike weights 45lb. Obviously since you're sitting fairly upright you're not putting a ton of your own weight over the front wheel so maybe slow down for those corners. The nice thing with the heft, is that if you put some panniers on it (like we have) it doesn't upset the balance of the bike too much once they are loaded. I have friends with the same bike who regularly do grocery store runs on theirs, it won't do a costco trip obviously.

It will charge from totally dead in like 6 hours i think from a normal outlet, but I just plug ours in every few days since my partner uses it every day for commuting, going to the gym, cafe etc.

Call around your local bike shops (whatever brand they carry) and ask what ebikes they have in stock and just go ride some and see how they feel. Every brand has ebikes of every kind nowadays.

Russian Bear fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Oct 20, 2021

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


marshmonkey posted:

I love and fully support ebikes but this reads like the script the salesperson reads, lol.

I’m glad battery tech is getting to the point where you don’t need to worry about range any more.

I used to work in a bike shop and sell these when they first came out. I'm just super pumped on ebikes, because it might mean one less car on the road. Which is always better. Like I said at the end, I don't care what brand you pick to try out, I'm just most familiar with this one.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


The amorphous blob competition.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


borkencode posted:

Tesla is rolling out their beta "Full self driving" software to more people, and I'm one of 'em. I've tested it thrice so far.

1) Last night from the neighboring subdivision back to home. Dark, rainy, possibly a buggy release (*more below). For a short trip this was very unimpressive. Car couldn't decide where to drive along the wide empty unmarked suburban streets (similar nearby area https://www.google.com/maps/@41.561298,-87.9034294,3a,75y,254.51h,79.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIbCXmKaoQKXAA9UKAtepUg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) making a few sharp turns to correct itself back into a "lane".

2) Today on the way to pick up lunch ~7 miles. Still pretty rainy, but at least light out. Updated to version 10.3.1. Much better lane keeping, but did want to hug the yellow line a bit on a wide street, like it thought another traffic or bike lane had to be to the right. Handled a very busy 4 way stop quite well, but then ended up not going into the left turn lane for the final turn of the trip. Had to disengage once due to it getting a bit close to a tipped over construction sign sticking into the lane.

3) Trip back home from lunch. Very similar to the trip there, there were a couple times where I thought it was very slow to get up to speed, and I gave up on it close to home when it was doing 10 under with someone tailgating. I think unmarked roads make it a bit "nervous".

Overall it was a bit unsteady. My wife felt a little queasy afterwards, as it would often drop speed for a second then re-accelerate once past whatever road section it wasn't confident about. I think it makes turns a bit like a teen with a learner's permit.

*The 10.3 software that got pushed out yesterday had some issues, and there was supposed to be rollback to 10.2, but I don't think my car installed it right, my software version didn't go back

How badly can a bicycle bully a tesla in fsd mode at slow speed? Asking for a friend.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


What if Ford just forgot that they programmed this feature.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


I assume there are no EVs that aren't connected to the internet all the time for over the air updates (and so car manufacturers can track your car), right?

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


kitten emergency posted:

speaking of defensive driving I don’t know if I got bailed out by the mustang emergency stop assistance or not but I nearly rear ended someone the other night because they unexpectedly braked, and I think it might have been the first time I’ve ever felt the friction breaks engage on that car. it was extremely sudden though, and I did slam the pedal down. either way, thanks technology!

So you were following too closely is what you're saying. Hopefully the takeaway is you need more space at whatever speed you were going. Defensive drivers avoid the emergency situation in the first place.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Are there legal implications for sentry mode in places where you can't record people without permission?

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Cool cool cool.

So NSA definitely has a backdoor into all these systems and would never misuse that right :tinfoil: there are probably easier things to see all that with.

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Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


Sign up now to be one of the first 100 to pay a market adjustment and to have the bed fall off.

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