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SIGSEGV posted:Even if they are, mines are also an excellent way of making the player's, and LPer's, brain to collapse into an aneurysm singularity, so perhaps it's best not to venture in that direction. Yeah you can get very very micromanage heavy with them which is why I only tend to use them on extremely important systems like Sol.
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Sep 5, 2020 02:16
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Can someone explain why mines are very micro-heavy? I keep hearing folks say that but I don't really understand why. Nor do I really know what mines are, so that doesn't help.
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Sep 5, 2020 05:13
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Shoeless posted:Can someone explain why mines are very micro-heavy? I keep hearing folks say that but I don't really understand why. Nor do I really know what mines are, so that doesn't help. Mines are stationary explosives that are planted in specific locations as traps for passing enemies, though they're generally frowned upon in the modern age because after a given war is over, nobody tends to go back and clean up all those mines so in certain regions of the world it's not uncommon to hear about innocent people, often children, running afoul of long-forgotten landmines from WWII or the like. In this context, they're basically guided missiles that lay dormant in space until they detect a vessel that isn't using our IFF codes within a certain range (presumably fairly close, otherwise they'd be eliminated by point defense weaponry), at which point they strike. I don't know how Aurora, specifically, handles them but generally space mines are designed to be very hard to detect until they've been set off. I assume the "micro-heavy" part involves having to replace and/or move them frequently.
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Sep 5, 2020 05:25
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Mines in Aurora are a kind of missile. One of the things you can do on a missile is put an active sensor on it so it can guide itself without needing a ship or switch targets if what it was going towards gets blown up. Another thing you can do is have multiple stages so that one big slow & fuel efficient rocket craps out a bunch of little fast ones when it gets close. If you have a missile with an active sensor but no engine, it will just sit there, but once it sees an enemy ship come into the separation range for its 2nd stage, it can split off into missiles that do have engines+sensors+warheads that will go chase down the target. The micro-heavy thing is that if you drop 1000 mines at one spot, then a single dinky scout comes into range, ever single mine will shoot itself off at it and massively overkill. To make that not happen, you have to move your launching fleet, click through a bunch of interface to drop a few mines, move the fleet, click through interface, move the fleet, ... so that their sensor ranges are staggered into layers.
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Sep 5, 2020 05:34
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Foxfire_ posted:The micro-heavy thing is that if you drop 1000 mines at one spot, then a single dinky scout comes into range, ever single mine will shoot itself off at it and massively overkill. To make that not happen, you have to move your launching fleet, click through a bunch of interface to drop a few mines, move the fleet, click through interface, move the fleet, ... so that their sensor ranges are staggered into layers. Ah okay, that explains it.
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Sep 5, 2020 06:53
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They also have a lmited lifetime so you hae to keep doing it.
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Sep 5, 2020 08:15
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Innocent_Bystander posted:They also have a lmited lifetime so you hae to keep doing it. If you keep the waypoints, you can probably save the entire awful process as a macro now. Still not fun times though, and why are you playing a game if not fun times?
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Sep 5, 2020 09:38
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Shoeless posted:I know, I am in fact proposing a (relatively small) megastructure to use as an extremely impractical superweapon. But think of the fantastic view of the action as their colossal fleets rampage around SOL! Think of the HoloNet ratings!
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Sep 5, 2020 20:03
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With all the retirees and in this scenario, surely a stop/loss needs to be put in place.
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Sep 6, 2020 14:58
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Mines really seem like something that should only be used if you're expecting a big ship or fleet to be moving through a point and you have a little while to set some up. Just having a permanent minefield seems kind of mind breaking on top of wasting ordinance. Relatedly, I can't seem to find a way to load up all of my missile slots at once. So I drag each missile to the slot for every launch. Box launchers if it matters. But hey, now I am just going to build massive 2-stage missiles where the first stage is little more than a launch platform and all the normal missiles just take off from there. Hopefully that's how it'll work. Only dealing with a pair of size 30 launchers would save some headache.
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Sep 7, 2020 06:53
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Plek posted:Mines really seem like something that should only be used if you're expecting a big ship or fleet to be moving through a point and you have a little while to set some up. Just having a permanent minefield seems kind of mind breaking on top of wasting ordinance. If you just have one fire control with the Auto assign function do it for you? Sometimes its finicky though.
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Sep 7, 2020 07:23
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1) Auto assign button will generally do okay 2) If the upper right "Assign All" checkbox is checked, dragging a weapon to a fire control or to unassigned will move all instances of it 3) Once you set up one ship, click the "Assign Fleet / Assign Sub Fleet / Assign System / Assign All (the button, not the checkbox)" will copy it to other ships in that grouping 4) The 2 stage thing should work. If you make the 1st stage empty & no engine + set to separate immediately, it should be no overhead besides spacemastering in the launcher+container missile.
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Sep 7, 2020 08:57
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Foxfire_ posted:2) If the upper right "Assign All" checkbox is checked, dragging a weapon to a fire control or to unassigned will move all instances of it I can't believe I've missed this little checkbox the entire time. This is super helpful!
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Sep 7, 2020 20:58
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++++++++ Bonus Vote Results ++++++++ Do we authorize the Admiralty to conduct operations against the KPPP? Should B and C total more votes than A, but A has still won, we will count the C votes as Bs and conduct an unarmed raid. B and C tie: Due to the tie, I will be conducting an armed raid into Kooken territory, and will fire upon their vessels, but will not attempt to deal massive amounts of damage. We just want info on their capabilities. Light damage won’t sink our relations with them much, but should they retaliate and enter our space I will not hesitate to hulk one of their vessels. ++++++++ End of Bonus Vote Results ++++++++ Ship contest to follow shortly
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Sep 7, 2020 22:01
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++++++++ Ship Contest ++++++++ We are refitting the Zeus, Artemis, and Gladius class vessels, so as to save their trained crews. We are desperately short on crew, a situation I will be correcting. 1. What design will we refit our Zeus class Gunboats into? A. Lando131’s Zeus II – I’m preferring this design of the two Lando131 offered, as it has a bit less boxes to manage, while having the flexibility of offering some PD.  B. OddObserver’s Zeurs MNA Class Missile Destroyer  C. Zurai’s Thunderbolt class Missile Cruiser  2. What design will we refit our Artemis class Corvettes into? A. OddObserver’s Artemis LE class Corvette  B. Foxfire_’s Hestia class Corvette, which also includes a design that can be produced new.   C. Zurai’s Oracle class Scout Frigate  3. What design will we refit or replace our Gladius class FACs into? A. OddObserver’s Gladius E class, and Gladius II FACs. code:code:code:code:  D. Zurai’s Elan class FAC  ++++++++ End of Ship Contest ++++++++ Thanks to everyone for being patient while I sort out real life stuff! I’m really enjoying the LP so far, and I hope you are too. Hopefully we get some exciting battles soon, and hopefully we survive! Also once the Zeus refits are done I will be putting through the military tanker, unless there are any objections?
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Sep 7, 2020 22:44
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Virtual Russian posted:B and C tie: Due to the tie, I will be conducting an armed raid into Kooken territory, and will fire upon their vessels, but will not attempt to deal massive amounts of damage. We just want info on their capabilities. Light damage won’t sink our relations with them much, but should they retaliate and enter our space I will not hesitate to hulk one of their vessels. Woo! Hell yeah! Put me on one of the ships! I wanna frag some aliens!
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Sep 7, 2020 22:50
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Thanks for the advice on the missile controls y'all. I haven't had a lot of luck with the auto-assign working but maybe it just doesn't like my tiny missiles. Either way I need to fiddle with it more.
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Sep 7, 2020 22:58
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I vote let these outdated ships remain as they are and stay in back-line garrison rolls; do not refit them at all. Spend those resources on new, modern ships instead, or maybe on a new military academy.
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Sep 8, 2020 04:02
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Shoeless posted:I vote let these outdated ships remain as they are and stay in back-line garrison rolls; do not refit them at all. Spend those resources on new, modern ships instead, or maybe on a new military academy. Wealth and resources aren't really our problem, and I've got academies lined up. If we build new ships they will be below grade as we lack the crew to man them. We'll be building new ships again before you know it. Refitting is going to happen a lot, especially as our crews get even more experienced.
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Sep 8, 2020 12:59
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https://i.imgur.com/FBZPEco.mp4 https://i.imgur.com/QsnTug7.mp4
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Sep 8, 2020 15:10
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Sep 8, 2020 15:13
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Virtual Russian posted:C. Zurai’s Thunderbolt class Missile Cruiser My votes.
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Sep 8, 2020 15:42
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Virtual Russian posted:++++++++ Ship Contest ++++++++ My votes. I didn't want to vote straight down the board on my designs. The Elan is the only beam FAC that has the armor to fulfill its role and the fleet badly needs a scout vessel with the Oracle being the only choice for that position. That left me abandoning my Thunderbolt, and I liked Lando's Zeus-refit a little better despite it being a little slower. It has a hellacious initial punch and it can provide PD cover to our missile ships. OddObserver's Zeus MNA has too few missile tubes and too many reloads given the reload times of the launchers.
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Sep 8, 2020 16:51
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Virtual Russian posted:Wealth and resources aren't really our problem, and I've got academies lined up. If we build new ships they will be below grade as we lack the crew to man them. We'll be building new ships again before you know it. Well, if you say so. I still think those slipways would be better putting those months of work towards new modern ships instead of refitting old ones but... A C D
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Sep 8, 2020 17:58
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A C D We need the sensors on the scout frigate. Hopefully we can start active patrols near the bug worlds.
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Sep 8, 2020 18:33
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Amazing, thanks!
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Sep 8, 2020 19:37
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Ship thoughts: Zeus slot Zeus II: -Decent throw weight, modest armor, a bit slow. - No self-spotting. -I still think PD turrets are for winning harder instead of winning at all (applies to other ships too) Zeus MNA: -This is kind of like both a more and less extreme Bomb Truck. Less extreme in that it has some armor, more extreme in that it goes even harder on trickling out a very large total number of missiles. It has a short fire control range. -This seems like an anti-beamship ship. Thunderbolt: - This is a garrison ship instead of a fleet ship like the other two. 2.5 years deployment time, more reliable than the II and much more reliable than the MNA (don't be fooled by maintenance clocks, look at the IFRs or 1YR/5YR supply consumption). - To get that, it's traded away some speed/ammo but is otherwise middle of the road between them Artemis Slot 3 completely different fleet roles! Artemis LE: - The PD fire control is a tech shrink going from 100 tons to 68 tons. It's still bad because our gauss tech is bad. If we're remaking a PD FC, it should have more range so the accuracy isn't so bad - It uses the old engine, so it's fuel hungry. Probably limited to system defense - It's dependent on there not being a major missile threat. If you can throw a few dozen missiles at it, it'll probably die before getting in range Hestia: - It's a jump point garrison. It doesn't have the armor to close with a missile ship in open space. - It uses the old engine, so it's fuel hungry. It's supposed to sit still for its entire tour once positioned - I haven't been looking at refit costs since they're hard to pull up, but these were cheap Oracle: - Scout/Spotter. We are short on both of these. I would like them better if they were different ships though. We can't really make stealthy scouts since we don't have emissions reduction tech, but they can do a little better by cutting all the noisy active sensor mass. - Also uses the old engine. Cruising around with this will get fuel expensive Gladius Slot Gladius E / Gladius II - I don't think these can actually successfully engage anything armed, but don't have the range I'd want in a freighter raider. They can't shoot till point-blank, so they would need to (1) dodge all antiship missiles [being small will cut targeting range, but that will reduce things to low millions, not 10000], (2) dodge all antimissile missiles, (3) dodge all long range beam fire, (4) shoot back while dodging all point defense fire. Pretty much any hit will go to internal damage Gladius SEP - The railgun has the same problems as the E / II when fighting anything armed. It has missiles though, so would only need the railgun for finishing off crippled or commercial ships. - With the range/deployment time + our lack of carriers, it's pretty much a single 6-shot missile launcher that can be parked over a colony to shoot at an approaching fleet. I'd prefer to defend further away, 1.1bkm is close. Shiv - Like a SEP, except with range/deployment to be a single-shot launcher far away from a colony. Gives up the railgun and needs research to do it. - You could tanker these to move them around, but they're still thirsty and you'd have to bring a tanker/oiler on long raids Elan - Has some armor and doesn't need to sit in the 10000km PD death zone to shoot - 400mkm round-trip range is really short, so if these see action, we've probably lost a fleet battle and they're sallying forth in a doomed last stand for a colony, which is admittedly pretty elan My votes Virtual Russian posted:++++++++ Ship Contest ++++++++ Basically going for a offense-is-the-best defense fleet over garrison ships. Also a fleet that hits together as a deathball instead of being strung out across garrison points. Virtual Russian posted:Also once the Zeus refits are done I will be putting through the military tanker, unless there are any objections? Chop the speed on it down to 4000km/s and cut the size to whatever makes that with one of the good engines? Tanker doesn't get much big-ship efficiency to be worth paying the big ship maintenance penalty.
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Sep 8, 2020 19:37
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I always forget to add the time frame, I'll let the vote run another 24 hours. Ending it when I get home from my last shift at my crappy job.
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Sep 8, 2020 19:38
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Zeus A There are three Missile-cruisers to choose from. I take the one with the biggest alpha-strike. This might help with softening up a Kook capitalship. Artemis C The Oracle fills a crucial role in our order of battle. We need to know what we are going to shoot/run away from. Gladius C Sorry, the shiv does what my design was supposed to do, but better in basically every way.
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Sep 8, 2020 20:15
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A. C. C. Thanks for all submissons! 
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Sep 8, 2020 20:45
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Kodos666 posted:Zeus I like this too.
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Sep 8, 2020 21:21
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Virtual Russian posted:Ending it when I get home from my last shift at my crappy job. :comfort:
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Sep 8, 2020 21:39
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I got my days mixed up, last shift is tomorrow, then I end the vote.
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Sep 10, 2020 03:44
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A C D
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Sep 10, 2020 13:08
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C B D 
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Sep 10, 2020 22:58
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++++++++ Ship Contest Results ++++++++ We are refitting the Zeus, Artemis, and Gladius class vessels, so as to save their trained crews. We are desperately short on crew, a situation I will be correcting. 1. What design will we refit our Zeus class Gunboats into? A. Lando131’s Zeus II 2. What design will we refit our Artemis class Corvettes into? C. Zurai’s Oracle class Scout Frigate 3. What design will we refit or replace our Gladius class FACs into? D. Zurai’s Elan class FAC ++++++++ End of Ship Contest Results ++++++++ Those are the winners, I'll get working on the update right away, which will include a raid. I'll do my best to get one last update out before the move, during which I'll be taking a two week hiatus. I'll be starting the job before I have a place for my stuff, including my computer, and won't be able to do much.
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Sep 11, 2020 04:34
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So the size of our fleet is less limited by resources and more by available crews + shipyards? Or is there a hard fleet size limit?
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Sep 11, 2020 17:42
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There's no limit other than what you can afford to produce, maintain, and staff.
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Sep 11, 2020 17:52
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You need maintenance berths to park your ships in, enough fuel and spare parts production to keep them flying, enough resources to build them, enough crew to fly them, and ideally enough officers to command them (not strictly necessary just very helpful) but there's no hard caps. If you can pull together the resources to do all those things, you can have as many ships as you want. You don't even strictly need trained academy crew, you have an infinite pool of conscript crew, they're just dogshit in a fight compared to real spacers. E: Beaten, but yeah, whatever you can afford you can have
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Sep 11, 2020 18:01
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Wait wait wait wait wait. We have a limitless supply of cheap conscripts? Why didn't anyone tell me that?! That solves our problems completely! All we need to do is get a shipyard or spaceport close enough to an enemy homeworld, then we just rapidly pull in conscripts to a ship in that port, offload them into the pool, and hire even more. Once we have enough, we can just crush the enemy in a land battle with sheer numbers. Literally, we won't even need a dropship, just coat the planet entirely with bodies!
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Sep 11, 2020 18:12
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