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> To compound things, bike manufacturers are also starting to really push the 650b wheelset (27.5 inches in diameter, so right in between 26" and 29") for more downhill/freeride type riding. Ah, the good ol days.
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Jul 25, 2020 16:20
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| # ¿ May 10, 2024 04:57 |
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As long as carbon frames are laid up by hand on molds, their human cost is gonna be a lot higher than alu. Maybe I'm underestimately how long it takes to finish welding up an alu frame in a jig. Not to say that their margin couldn't be better than aluminum, but you can't send as many cf frames through N molds as fast as alu frames through N jigs.
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Aug 3, 2020 17:05
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Flatland Crusoe posted:The 2 processes share almost no common technology even if the end product looks the same. With carbon the more times they can reuse the mold the cheaper the part will be. With aluminum the cost is somewhat more broken down to each build allowing more size options especially if you can use the same tubing dies and then cut the tubes down. At current bike sales volumes, does either tech run the risk of wearing out a die or mold in the run of a bike? A popular model in a common size, over a few years of using that frame / geo, will sell what, a few thousand bikes? Rear triangles will be... 10,000 units? Flatland Crusoe posted:I'm pretty sure the direct labor cost with AL is going to be higher based on the time and skill required to tig weld aluminum. With carbon the layup is a semiskilled task. I can see the hourly pay being higher, but will all welding on a frame come anywhere close to time to lay up the tubes, join the tubes, and finish the frame? I'm assuming most big places are still making their own carbon tubes and not doing monocoque? I feel like welding a frame is half a day's work, with layup for an FS frame being far more time? Ignoring all bake time in the autoclave, and all downstream assembly, like pivots, shocks, etc. Maybe I'm grossly underestimating the speed at which they can throw on the layers. At which point, the limiting factor is number of molds and autoclave size.
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Aug 3, 2020 20:16
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VelociBacon posted:I got a tour of the Intense factory in the 00's and I think they said their (master) welders did a couple frames a day. I suspect with companies like Giant it's not done by hand so it probably takes 30 min of welding per bike there. I'm not aware of any bike frame manufacture being substantially mechanized. I thought every weld joining tubes was done by a human. meowmeowmeowmeow posted:Most aluminum tube is from a catalog, most manufacturers are not specifying custom tube unless they absolutely have to. Some parts are cast, generally around the BB/linkage area, and some of the intersections of tubes like parts of the rear triangle or dropout area, so tooling investment in the tubes is pretty low. If you need to hydroform, does that require another step in the supply chain, or does the tube supplier do it? quote:Almost if not all bikes are monocoque and don't use pre-rolled tube, Is that true? I thought LuescherTechnik was showing most cut frames as assembled from baked tubes. quote:so your lay-up means a mold is tied up not baking, so you pay for extra molds as well.
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Aug 3, 2020 21:20
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evil_bunnY posted:I don't think I'd ever want a dropped to ride gravel, but a locking suspension post would be ace for gravel bikepacking. It's not necessary, but I've run into a few descents that suddenly got more rocky, so would have been nice to have more clearance to shift back to tip toe over the technical bits. Not worth the extra weight, but nice.
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Aug 7, 2020 17:46
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Ok, here's a trip report for my first real ride on my hardtail with the Trust Message. There's a bunch of stuff I put on the bike since I last rode it, so will give quick reviews for that stuff as well. The On-One 45650B is a 27.5 evolution of their 456 hardtail, which is meant for 4-5-6" forks. I'd ridden this as an around-town bike and also a couple times as a rigid 26+. The geometry of the On-One is a bit weird. It's a 2014 with mostly old school geo, but slack because it's a British hardtail. 65.7 deg HTA, but only 410mm reach in 20", the biggest size. That's shorter than my medium 2017 Fuse, which is why I got the XL 45650B frame. On the trail, the geo doesn't really stand out except that the standover is notably high -- 4cm higher than my Fuse. I hit the top tube quite a few times dabbing.  I also decided to try out a bullmoose bar: https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HBOOBM/on-one-bullmoose-handlebar with end extenders to bring the width to 75cm. I'd ridden 76cm before and I thought it would be enough, but the bars just don't work for me with this frame. I need more downsweep, and maybe a cm more stem reach. I can live with 75cm, but wider'd probably feel better. So bear in mind my riding was done with these bars I couldn't even adjust, other than brake lever position, which I did a couple times. I was on 2.3" DHF and Aggressor. I actually forgot to bring my pump, so was maybe a little conservative in letting air out (had to ride 4mi to/from the trail). I think I dialed in the rear correctly, but might have left the front a bit firm. It was dry and I liked the traction from both.  I usually wear unpadded Giro DnDs. This time, I brought some baseball gloves with D3O padding I have been meaning to test out. The left hand is a catcher glove with slightly longer padding on the index finger. The way the padding sat felt weird on the right hand fielder glove, so I cut the padding out and trimmed it. These were much more comfortable than my DnDs, but I dunno how much so compared to normal padded gloves. Riding for just a bit barehanded confirmed that they were making a huge difference in canceling out little shocks. On to the Trust fork itself. I've been very positive in the bike Slack that this product was part of a very robust and professional effort for a debuting brand. The instruction manual, accessories, packaging, construction -- all show a company that was trying to do it right from day one. The initial setup when the fork came out was to set both air springs to psi = your weight in lbs. Then they changed it to 15psi less than your weight. I weight 205, and set it at 180. The fork ships with 1 spacer (out of 4 possible total), and of course I stuck with that. If you haven't read about the kinematics of the Trust, this is pretty illustrative: https://bikeco.com/trust-message-fork-review-geometry/ especially the Contour Travel and Trail for Trails sections. Notably, the trail increases (when HTA held constant) up to 55% of the fork's travel, which is 130mm along the axle arc, but only 120 measuring parallel to the steerer, which I think matters after my ride. Here's a couple meager pics of the the trail. From fast gravel / pulverized pine needles (perfect for gravel biking):  To minorly steep descents with some chunkier rocks and roots poking out:  To really jaggy big roots and occasional rock gardens:  I've ridden most of this area with a Fuse on a 140mm Fox 34 Factory, which reasonably dialed in settings, so that'll be the point of comparison. First off, my quarantine fitness is absolute trash, and I took way more breaks in the ~2h riding than I ever have. I couldn't fully commit in the 2nd half because I was just too cooked from climbs. Whenever I could, I'd seek out worse lines to hit the suspension. Unfortunately for my testing purposes, I only found the cool/hard stuff in the 2nd half. The first half was very tame, though even on the few fast descents I did, I double checked that the fork was in the fully open setting. It was. This was a comment made by more than one reviewer, that they were caught off guard by how firm the bike felt. Similarly to those reviewers, I never needed to switch to the other firmer settings for climbing. The sag indicator shows I got to 80% of travel, which seems right. The second half is where all the varied terrain came in. I had a good time despite gassing a third of the way up every climb, and would have had with other bikes. On 1-2" washboard root sections, the ride was certainly composed, but definitely not cush. Of course the rear was still harsher, but the difference wasn't that much. Over most small spiky bumps, I kept thinking it was hard to tell from a rigid fork. On this kind of terrain, the Fox 34 is definitely plusher, and feels more reactive. On bigger steps, the Trust felt great. Having the wheel move back in reaction to a square edge definitely improves the sense of carrying speed (until I get jounced by the rear wheel). On rocky descents is where you really notice the trail-maintaining geometry. Maybe the Trust is only working to maintain stability throughout travel, but compared to a telescopic fork, it sure feels like it's increasing stability as it compresses. Up to a point -- on bigger hits, I felt like it was swing back toward less stable. This is all born out by the suspension diagrams linked above, but I didn't have those in mind when I was riding. So yeah, I'd summarize that in the first half of travel, you benefit from perceived increasing stability, which evaporates as you move deeper into the travel. My fox 34 felt a bit more linear, and I got closer to bottoming out on the same harsh descents. Some reviews said this feels like a bigger fork than it is. I don't think I agree with that. It feels like a very firm, progressive 120mm fork. Trust claimed this could replace up to a 150mm fork. I don't really see that extreme. I like the added stability, but from one ride, I don't know that it's game changing. The extra confidence you get from stability in the first half of travel is really nice, but you would never sell this fork as something safer or easier to use for beginners. You ride it with the same fundamentals and just appreciate the different suspension behavior. The fact that the feeling changes in the 2nd half of travel is... disappointing? Like the party trick is not as impressive that way. Last thing -- a couple times, having the tire slip off a small rock sideways, I got a sense for how stiff the fork is. Which is very. Very little twist or lateral bend. That coupled with pretty stiff first bit of travel are maybe what make it feel like a rigid fork.
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Aug 10, 2020 04:20
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n8r posted:Single pivot? Sup with that? What's the leverage ratio curve, tho?
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Aug 12, 2020 18:21
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kimbo305 posted:Would anyone be interested if there were women's cuts options? I can volunteer to try to set up a similar group order if 1) there's interest 2) I can get an Aliexpress vendor to do the women's custom design. Not sure if anyone in this thread wants a roadie women's cut jersey. No idea if a regular men's jersey of some size would have the looseness of an MTB jersey.
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Aug 12, 2020 23:03
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What’s causing the detension issue where the top half of the chain is dangling? Even if the clutch were weak, it should allow the chain to freewheel back over the cassette.
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Aug 17, 2020 15:16
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jamal posted:I suppose the cage could be locked forward. 
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Aug 18, 2020 01:09
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Does it only slap when you’re coasting? Is it possible that the freewheel is catching somehow?
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Aug 20, 2020 03:08
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I'm genuinely curious if covid transmission can happen in these conditions.
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Aug 24, 2020 03:09
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Don't remember if you've answered this before, but do you have a extra set of hoods on your shifters for comfort?
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Sep 1, 2020 01:02
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I spent 3.5h putting on Cushcores and tires. You absolutely have to wedge the bead down to the center channel to have any hope of getting the whole bead over. I think soapy water is also key to pumping the bead back to the hook — trying to physically wrench the bead didn’t work. These better be worth it.
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Sep 18, 2020 02:26
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mAlfunkti0n posted:Rode a modern geometry frame for the first time today. Soooo glad I swapped that goofy bikes direct frame for the ragley Marley another goon found. Where are the picssss?
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Sep 18, 2020 12:30
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Noice. I was planning on doing the same soon butkimbo305 posted:I spent 3.5h putting on Cushcores and tires the front tire's wobble is way too much for me to bear looking at on the road, so gonna have to try again after my hands and forearms are rested up.
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Sep 18, 2020 17:45
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Bring the wheels in one trip, frame another. It’s parts for repair.
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Sep 25, 2020 02:57
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jammyozzy posted:This was exactly my problem with a 29er. I ride the largest frame whatever manufacturer offers, and by the time you add 29" wheels to that manouvering it around some of the twisty trails here is an absolute chore. I get the appeal if everything you ride is open and flowing, but to me they feel like riding an oil tanker when you get into tight stuff. How for the same model of tire/rim, how much heavier does a 29" wheel end up being? From what I've noticed, HTA and front center do more to slow down steering than the extra weight being moved (from the axles about the center of mass and separately, the mass of the front wheel about the steering axis).
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Sep 27, 2020 01:25
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Kilazar posted:To that I'd like to upgrade this spring. Initially when I started looking around I had landed on a Rosco 7 from Trek. But then over the past couple months I found out about Bentonville and all the fun that can be had with downhill there. In OKC we have next to 0 of that. But I'd like to start planning trips to Bentonville since it's not too far out for me. So that started to change my research a bit. I am now leaning more towards an entry level full suspension. Not sure how downhill you want to get, but the Siskiu D7 is pretty tame geometry and low travel. The Siskiu T7 is $100 more, has a much bigger travel fork, is slacker, and has a more aggressive tire. The Hawkhill is a little less travel and aggressive than the T7.
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Sep 30, 2020 14:01
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Kilazar posted:Also downhill won't be my main focus as I live in flat rear end Oklahoma. Loong low grade ups and short not much better downs when there is any variation in terrain. At least from the trails I have ridden so far. There is one trail that is very "spikey" lots of sharp sudden ups with sharp sudden downs back to flat then sharp ups again. So whichever of the 3 bikes will be best for my home terrain while affording me the once or twice a year downhill trip's. If that's mostly what you'll be riding, the D7 might be a better fit. You can have fun on any bike, but if most of what you're doing is pedaling through rough but flat trails, the shorter travel on the D7 will be more efficient.
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Sep 30, 2020 14:50
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kimbo305 posted:the front tire's wobble is way too much for me to bear looking at on the road, so gonna have to try again after my hands and forearms are rested up. I gave this a go a while back to no avail. Sprayed soapy water all around, tried to massage the water into the bead, used my nicer tire levers to put more pressure into them, no luck. At one point I was doing a pushup with a lever in each hand, and the bead just woudn't budge off the hook. Pervert that I am, I decided to downgrade to Cushcore XC, which has the notched inner edge, which is supposed to make it easier to install. Remove, who knows. Ordered a 2.4" Rekon, too. Should I downgrade the tire? 2.3" DHF is probably the worse case tire -- stiffest and tightest. I like the grip out here, but it's not necessary. Pros for the Rekon: lighter, bit wider, maybe easier to install. Once the cushcore is in, I'll do another attempt at getting the DHF off.
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Oct 3, 2020 00:46
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Would it be weird to run Rekon front, Aggressor rear? The knobs are small, but not as tiny as the whatever stock tires on my 27+ Fues.
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Oct 3, 2020 01:57
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But I'm too cowardly to even attempt unmounting the unwobbly rear  The other option I looked at was a slightly wider and hopefully looser 2.5 DHF. But could also do 2.6 DHF.
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Oct 3, 2020 02:39
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Suburban Dad posted:Bike shops are dirt cheap for labor. As big of a pain as cushcore sounds, it's probably worth the 20-30 bucks they'd charge to put it on. I think the calculus was that no hour figure they could quote would be worth the time spent doing that over all the other easy work they have coming now during covid. If it were unmounted, that'd be one thing, but I can see having to undo my work on a carbon rim might be too much risk to take on. VelociBacon posted:I wouldn't run a 2.5 or 2.6 on my downhill bike, I think it's kinda crazy to consider putting any 2.5 or 2.6 tire on a bike you have to pedal around unless you really find that a 2.4 isn't enough. I've only ridden two plus bikes, and one pedaled ok, and the other was incredibly slow. Both on 3" Dirt Wizards. But yeah, I can't convince myself that 5mm extra width would be the thing that seals the deal.
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Oct 3, 2020 03:46
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It is, fwiw, but I ordered the Dissector 2.4.
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Oct 4, 2020 01:57
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How much load, and pics of the cassette?
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Oct 7, 2020 00:56
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feelix posted:It's hard to get a good pic but it's a small section (like 5 or so teeth) of one of the big cogs bent out away from the wheel. Probably construction quality matters more than steel supply choice. If that bent cog was already tilted a little bit toward the chainline, it would magnify the sideload on the cog. Similar if the splines were the least bit loose. I’d probably be trying to do a JRA warranty case with SRAM first before committing to losing 3 gears.
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Oct 7, 2020 20:02
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n8r posted:Looking at the new Ripmo Deore build. I know there are a few Ripmo riders here so I'm looking for some feedback. Hmm, almost 3deg slacker. Won't that be way more stiction in the fork? And thus eat into the efficiency?
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Oct 10, 2020 02:23
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I built 29+ wheels for my fat bike, and that thing could climb. Surly Dirt Wizards still come in 29x3, 1100g.
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Oct 10, 2020 07:57
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After seeing yet another video on how to mount cushcores, I decided I'd take another stab at unmounting my setup (Bontrager Line rim, 2.3 DHF). After an hour of spraying soapy water at the hook and pressing with all my might into the bead, the only progress I'd made was budging the bead a few mm and severely fraying the edge of it. Worse, there were permanent stretches to the sidewall from all my unsuccessful poking: That pushed me over the edge to: kimbo305 posted:I am Kurtz, mad in the jungle. I am Immortan Joe, mourning a perfectly symmetrical stillbirth. I hope no one here ever needs to know the sensation of cutting through a fresh tire's sidewall, or of slicing through the kevlar bead strand by strand until it pops loose. Ultimately, the obstacle was the really tall ramp/backstop on the proprietary plastic Bontrager rim strip. Best pic I could find of it:  Between the height of that wall and my caution levering against the carbon rim, I could never budge the bead over. I honestly thought about sanding the ramps down some to make the next uninstall easier. At this point, I threw on a 2.4 Dissector, which took maybe 4 min. Easier than I remember of the DHF, but when I tried to pop the bead off to preview installing the cushcore XC, it still didn't come off with some effort. The bead slid up to the ramp easily, but I still couldn't move it up and over with some cautious tire levering. Hopefully with some riding, the bead will loosen up a tad more. I also need the time to heal all the bruising on my palm from forcing the tire lever. Anyways, the Dissector without cushcore feels a lot lighter, which is good. The knobs are definitely a step down in size from the DHF, but I'll be fine.
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Oct 11, 2020 21:35
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I'm intrigued https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHGt09eIyoI
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Oct 18, 2020 08:37
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I've not had that any better success riding on freshly fallen snow with fat tires. It's still too powdery and packs between the knobs right away, living you with a giant slick torus of snow.
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Oct 23, 2020 19:13
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n8r posted:Were you riding snow specific tires? I have not experienced snow sticking to my Vee snow avalanches. 4.5" measured Vee Bulldozer. They're not particularly paddlelicious. And 4.2" Husker Dus before that, which had less traction but did shed snow well. Suburban Dad posted:What pressure were you running and what width? less than 10 according to my pump but not really sure. I played it by ear, feeling out how much squish made sense.
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Oct 23, 2020 21:45
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Suburban Dad posted:Lower. Like less than 5 and give it another shot. It could have been. My point about the pump is that what it reported below 10 wouldn’t match up well to reality. n8r posted:Just guessing pressures for fatbiking can mean a not fun time. I run 4.5f 5.5r for the groomed singletrack we have here. Is there such a thing as too low? I had tubes in mine, and went as low as knicking the rims over expansion joints and stuff. PS. I no longer have that bike, after the great fat bike trend faded
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Oct 24, 2020 00:48
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I've not enjoyed the 27.5+ I had for out here in Massachusetts (rocky, rooty, very short sometimes steep climbs/descents). I think you can get the tire pressure just right so that you get the right amount of support without everything feeling rubbery and disconnected, but it takes extra effort to get there. The extra weight is noticeable for sure. If the rollover ease is what you want, normal 29 is totally fine. I'm now running 27.5 and it's a bit more challenging for climbs, but geometry is a big factor is descents, and it's fine there. I think if I were buying a whole bike, I'd still go for 29.
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Oct 31, 2020 22:27
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vikingstrike posted:I believe the Kyle/April MTB channel (forget the exact name) have videos on both topics. Kyle is pretty good at breaking things down and explaining whats going on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSGJqFXrEdU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3giTBDTzwvk
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Nov 26, 2020 22:03
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-qUnyl5Z14&t=260s
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Nov 27, 2020 11:04
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Try for a slight upsize with a torx bolt if you have one. Then extractor bolts if you have those.
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Nov 30, 2020 18:01
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bicievino posted:Dremel + flathead screwdriver, or if even that doesn't work, super glue a cheap allen wrench in. I figured dremel wouldn't work cuz the bolt is recessed in the lockring. I've once successfully drilled through the shaft of the bolt and had all the threading gracefully come loose, but that'd be dicy with a really small bolt.
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Nov 30, 2020 18:39
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| # ¿ May 10, 2024 04:57 |
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VelociBacon posted:I refuse to believe that it's going to take 8 months to a year for a bike shop to resupply. Why would they even open? If they get mostly repair business, but even then it seems like lots of common parts are out of stock.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:58
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