Get Sick and Die; The State of U.S. Healthcare

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Get Sick and Die; The State of U.S. Healthcare

Bishyaler: Dec 30, 2009; Megamarm

Tibalt posted:

The ACA is good. It personally helped me and people I know, and has helped literally millions more get healthcare and treatment that they wouldn't have otherwise.

The idea that the ACA is what prevents us from having a better healthcare system is bullshit. The claim goes that since it wasn't perfect, it's an obstacle to that better system. You can see the sleight of hand in Willa's post - the ACA could have had a public option and price controls, and it doesn't. It could and should have had those things, and it was also a mistake on Obama's part to spend so long negotiating with Republicans.

But I don't believe that a public option would flip Willa's opinion, or anyone else who criticizes the ACA. So we're back at the same point - the very real, very helpful ACA that exists, and the very hypothetical, very nonexistent UHC that couldashouldawoulda.

UHC wouldn't have passed the Senate that existed in 2010, and I don't believe that anything better than the ACA would have been passed in the last ten years. And those things that Willa pointed to, the single payer and the price controls, haven't been passed either.

ACA is a thousand times better than what existed before, and that's the only honest metric on which you can judge its success.

Yes, its a self-fulfilling prophecy. UHC was never possible because Democrats actively fight against it. Also the ACA did nothing to slow or stop increasing rates and patient responsibility. It does get credit in shaking people's faith in the government's ability to deliver healthcare though. Saying it's "a thousand times better" is a hilarious amount of hyperbole and partisan nonsense.

# ¿ May 3, 2021 17:17

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# ¿ May 9, 2024 21:53

Bishyaler: Dec 30, 2009; Megamarm

Tibalt posted:

Let me guess- you never had to interact with US insurance before 2010, and have only the foggiest memories of what it was like.

Because that's the only conceivable way that you think that the millions objectively helped by the ACA must be partisan hyperbole. People losing their job due to health issues that prevented them from working, and being denied insurance due to their condition, and ultimately being ruined by the catastrophic event - that happened all the time. And that's if you were the sort of person who had a job that offered health insurance.

If you were someone who worked in an industry that didn't offer health insurance, but earned too much to qualify for Medicaid, the Obamacare exchanges were a godsend. I personally was able to afford insurance due to the ACA.

I've been under my own insurance since 1996. In what reality are ACA plans that cost $300 a month with a $7000 deductible and 50% coinsurance objectively good? Unless you're in for major surgery, that covers nothing. And if you were gainfully employed enough to eat a surprise $7000+ bill, you probably already had semi-decent insurance through your employer. So the working poor would've been paying $300 a month for slightly less crippling medical debt in case they ever needed care?

# ¿ May 3, 2021 18:28

Bishyaler: Dec 30, 2009; Megamarm

Mellow Seas posted:

Can somebody find me one post, anywhere, ever where somebody in D&D said that the ACA is fine and so we don't need to expand healthcare coverage? Can anybody find me one post where somebody said that universal single-payer is a bad policy, and that they prefer the ACA to M4A, rather than just saying that it's unable to pass with the current construction of congress? I mean, I'm constantly assured those are positions that people hold, so it shouldn't be hard, right?

I don't know if you'll find that in D&D, but you will find several prominent Democrats including Biden saying that expanding the ACA is the way forward, not M4A.

# ¿ May 3, 2021 21:36

Bishyaler: Dec 30, 2009; Megamarm

Kalit posted:

But out of curiosity, do you think Biden would actually be supportive of Medicare for All if ACA had not gotten written into law back in 2010? Because that's a hell of a take....

No. I think if the ACA had not passed in 2010, Democrats would be taking this opportunity to push a market-based solution like the ACA, just like they are attempting to expand the ACA now. They have accepted that ~45k deaths a year from lack of healthcare is preferable to taxing the rich and killing the health insurance industry.

# ¿ May 4, 2021 14:37

Bishyaler: Dec 30, 2009; Megamarm

Tibalt posted:

Hold on - are telling me you literally don't believe that better things are possible?

Well, cool, glad you admit that Obamacare is the best solution, despite the many acknowledged flaws.

Better things are easily possible if Democrats would practice what they preach. The problem is, they don't.

# ¿ May 4, 2021 14:56

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Get Sick and Die; The State of U.S. Healthcare