Get Sick and Die; The State of U.S. Healthcare

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Get Sick and Die; The State of U.S. Healthcare

F_Shit_Fitzgerald: Feb 2, 2017

Question for those in this thread: how in the world do you respond to morons who tell you that universal health care is "slavery" because it's "forcing people to give charity"? I've run into this on another forum and its baffling, though I know it's a dumb way to reframe the issue.

I've tried pointing out that people have a right not to be forced into medical bankruptcy, and that M4A doesn't mean that doctors and nurses don't get paid, but it's like talking to a wall.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2020 15:40

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# ¿ May 12, 2024 04:13

F_Shit_Fitzgerald: Feb 2, 2017

Griefor posted:

If your definition of slavery is being forced to do anything at all you could argue that being forced to free your slaves is slavery.

Or going into medical bankruptcy because you get sick and can't afford your medical bills.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2020 15:57

F_Shit_Fitzgerald: Feb 2, 2017

Good suggestions. Thanks, all. Probably is a lost cause, but I get a perverse pleasure out of forcing people to confront the contradictions of their philosophy.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2020 16:42

F_Shit_Fitzgerald: Feb 2, 2017

BiggerBoat posted:

Maybe ask why so many of my tax dollars go towards the military and how that "forces me to pay for wars I oppose"? Paying taxes for cops or firefighters I've never personally needed isn't slavery. Paying into social security so that my street isn't lined with the corpses of widowed 70 year olds isn't slavery. Paying for basic sanitation and trash collection I think we can all agree is good. Even before I had a kid, paying into a public education system I didn't use wasn't slavery because I want my neighbors to have an education.

Whatever forum you're on sounds like it's filled with idiots but I usually just tell these types that "we live in a society", see if there's any traction and then go from there.

I mean, the simplest answer is that something like healthcare is a thing all of us are going to need at some point so sharing the costs and eliminating the profit incentive is just simply more cost effective. I mean, should I be forced to go bankrupt because my son has epilepsy and has had 2 seizures by age 7? I think socializing the costs of common needs is wise even if it creates other problems but for some reason the types of people you're talking to tend to think that "free market competition" solves everything. You wouldn't want to privatize water, electricity, food, education, prisons and...

oh wait.

I personally think we need to socialize the commons and let capitalism do the consumer products end of things but I dunno and am lacking the energy to really get into it.

My hip/back/leg arthritis driven pain has spiked up to about level 9 over the last 3 weeks or so. Level 10 is when I can't walk or sleep hardly at all. Right now I can walk SOME and sleep SOME. My insurance company won't cover cortisone injections and my options for physical therapy are limited so I'm reduced to doing that last part myself by watching you tube videos.

I'm cranky, beaten and mad about it. Everyone tells you "your health is the most important thing!" but god for loving bid you get sick or throw out your back and can't do your job anymore. Or, maybe worse, have to miss work hours to visit doctors.

It definitely is filled with idiots. This particular idiot didn't respond after they proposed making medicines and treatments cheaper (which is a start) and I answered that everyone needs health care regardless of their ability to pay, their health condition, or their job (or lack of one).

Just as well. I and my family have dealt with the wrong end of for-profit health insurance and it doesn't take much for me to get really heated about it. As someone else said, people like this are generally a waste of breath to argue with.

F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Aug 15, 2020

# ¿ Aug 15, 2020 20:11

F_Shit_Fitzgerald: Feb 2, 2017

BiggerBoat posted:

Since I smoke, have abused drugs in the past and drink, I hear the argument a lot that "why should I pay for your poor life choices when you get sick?" And most of these people are fat and eat McDonalds and Taco Bell and poo poo, wondering why they can't lose weight. But OK. Fair enough.

My ex wife (and my son) both have epilepsy. My mother had bipolar disorder and mental illness brought on in large part by rape and molestation as a child committed by her father and half brother. My ex was also molested by a family neighbor at the age of 11 that contributes to her acute anxiety. My son also has ADHD and caught a nasty gash above his eye at gymnastics class that put him the ER. They all need(ed) care. The gently caress did THEY do to deserve what's coming to them? And why should they have to go broke for the crime of being sick?

Holy poo poo.

Since you told your story (and your family's), I'll tell mine. I was born with my hips dislocated, a condition that was handed down from one of my distant uncles. Before I was eighteen, I had about ten surgeries: seven on both hips, one for a hernia (caused by being in a body cast), one knee surgery (to correct uneven growth of my legs), and a spinal fusion for scoliosis. Until the ACA, I spent years as an adult without health insurance.

My sister was as bad or worse. She had Down syndrome and some congenital heart defects and as a result, was considered uninsurable. My parents did OK; we weren't rich but had pretty good group insurance through my parents' job. Then my Dad lost his job in the mid '90s and we lost that insurance. It took my dad getting a job with a school picture company taking money to insure my sister, and luckily for us that insurance lasted until her death in late 2002.

Neither of us was responsible for the health conditions we had/have, but we were both considered too "risky" to insure because :capitalism:

: when insurance is for-profit, it sets shareholders trying to make a profit against sick people and their needs. Guess who wins in that scenario?

quote:

That whole "forcing people to pay charity" quote you cited burns my rear end the more I think about it. It's so selfish, backwards and mean spirited and the point is that we shouldn't NEED charity to cover medical expenses. Those assholes would be the first ones whining about their taxes going to support someone on disability and I automatically have to assume they routinely poo poo on homeless people, many of whom are there due to medical issues.

Also, since we're talking about being "forced to pay for charity" and since these dickheads are usually heavily involved in some sort of church that they'll generally cite for all their glorious charity work, maybe ask them why churches are tax exempt but still allowed to own entire city blocks, huge TV networks and politically stump from the pulpit as they rake in cash? One could argue that I have to pay taxes to support an ideology I strongly disagree with while a lot of these fuckers revel in opulence and, in many cases, make or break my elected representative candidates in elections.

Me too. My family would have been up poo poo creek if it hadn't been for Shriner's Hospital, which did surgery on me - and even transported us to the hospital a time or two - for free. I was lucky. But if we lived in a country that cared about people over profit, there would be no need for a Shriner's; kids like me, or your son, would get the help they need for free.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2020 00:53

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# ¿ May 12, 2024 04:13

F_Shit_Fitzgerald: Feb 2, 2017

BiggerBoat posted:

I dunno, man.

Every poster I read here that is visiting/has visited this country always posts the same poo poo: That they are astonished or at least taken aback with how many flags we insist on flying and the crap we slap on our vehicles. To tell you the truth, I find myself creeped out by my instinctual sense of dislike and mistrust of pretty much anyone brandishing red white and blue loving anything these days.

Feels like I'm at war with my own country and it bugs me to be reminded that that is pretty much true.

But, hey, I didn't start the fire.

It's hard to be proud of this country, that's for sure. Most of the rest of the world figured out certain things decades ago (case in point: universal health care of various types) that we still consider "pie in the sky" here in the "Greatest Country In The World (tm)".

# ¿ Aug 20, 2020 01:18

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Get Sick and Die; The State of U.S. Healthcare