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Dawntrail has been confirmed to be getting another Field Operations, which means stuff like Eureka/Bozja.
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Mar 5, 2024 01:09
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 06:33 |
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On one hand, yay for a relic that isn't just 'pay 6k currency'. On the other hand hopefully this one is actually good!
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Mar 5, 2024 01:14
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I liked EW's relics a lot.
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Mar 5, 2024 01:22
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I like EW relics but I think I don't want another expansion where they are just like that? The variety is fun. This being said, I'm currently trying to do my Bozja relic and some of these steps are VERY painful so I guess it's a balance.
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Mar 5, 2024 01:32
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They added Criterion dungeons and a new Deep Dungeon, but didn't provide a thing to grind for in them so they sort of dried up immediately. They should have integrated relics with them in some way, though maybe in a less annoying way than has been done in previous iterations. Just make the relic doodads guaranteed drops!
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Mar 5, 2024 01:53
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They shouldn't have done that because criterion dungeons weren't designed to be long time grinds even for casual players and roping relics into them would make them mandatory for a lot of players and much more annoying. It's cool there's neat 4 man challenge dungeons there doesn't need to be an treadmill attached to everything.
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Mar 5, 2024 02:00
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Variant dungeons would be a good thing to grind for *next* expansion's relic, keeps them relevant.
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Mar 5, 2024 02:06
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:They shouldn't have done that because criterion dungeons weren't designed to be long time grinds even for casual players and roping relics into them would make them mandatory for a lot of players and much more annoying. It's cool there's neat 4 man challenge dungeons there doesn't need to be an treadmill attached to everything. It's not a neat challenge if the queue never pops. You add reasons for people to grind them so the queues pop for new players. No one would ever, ever have done any of the MSQ roulette dungeons if the devs weren't actively bribing them with tomestones. If you want content to remain relevant, you have to provide a meaningful reward for doing it.
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Mar 5, 2024 02:09
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sweet geek swag posted:It's not a neat challenge if the queue never pops. You add reasons for people to grind them so the queues pop for new players. No one would ever, ever have done any of the MSQ roulette dungeons if the devs weren't actively bribing them with tomestones. If you want content to remain relevant, you have to provide a meaningful reward for doing it. Well they're not MSQ dungeons, they're special hard mode fights like EX trials, which people often use PF to find parties for instead of queuing for them. UNless you mean the story modes which...are all easily soloable by any role and combat class by design. Like I cleared all the story beats and findables for all three with the majority or my runs being entirely solo. The skills they give you are entirely broken and made just so you can easily solo poo poo.
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Mar 5, 2024 02:13
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there's an off chance that the next field expedition isn't tied to a relic either, who knows. maybe they go all the way back to "do the least populated forms of content a lot"
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Mar 5, 2024 02:25
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I hope they don't tie relics to the next exploratory zone because I don't really like that content and if they don't tie a relic to it I will probably ignore it.
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Mar 5, 2024 02:37
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One of the important casual treadmills in the game is loot, to the surprise of no one here. And relics are the only realistic method for a casual player to upgrade their most important and often most visual impactful slot. Capped tomestone weapons are raid tools. Unless you're doing savage it takes 2 months of normal raids just to get a single weapon, and it conflicts with the extremely limited currency you need for equipment upgrades. This is completely impossible for those that play multiple jobs, let alone roles. Tons of people don't do extremes, so they don't even have those as fall backs. With relics established as the only realistic upgrade path for a huge amount of players, SE is limited on how grindy and how bullshit the new relics are going to be. I can see them being associated with the new field zones again, but they're not going to be some glorious grind that's going to keep players active for 24 months of patch content. And seeing how they were done in Bozja, that might just be one path to acquisition, and not the sole way to get them.
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Mar 5, 2024 03:27
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IMO ShB had it right where you needed tokens but had multiple routes to get them. You could do Bozja-related stuff or you could do other stuff for most of the steps, or mix and match as you feel like it. The Delubrum or PotD step is bad though. If they do something like that and maybe find some way to integrate tomes too then I think that'd be cool
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Mar 5, 2024 03:33
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iPodschun posted:IMO ShB had it right where you needed tokens but had multiple routes to get them. You could do Bozja-related stuff or you could do other stuff for most of the steps, or mix and match as you feel like it. The Delubrum or PotD step is bad though. The PotD side of that step would be less awful if the drop rate wasn't "oh you just solo'd 100 floors? well here's one I guess"
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Mar 5, 2024 04:06
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The second one-time grind is also bad but at least you only have to do it once.
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Mar 5, 2024 08:15
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The hidden value of eureka/bozja is how it's a level capped environment that's also gear synced. You can mess around with a job's full toolkit against boss-like encounters to better decide if you want to invest in gearing it up, and if you die it's not hard to get up and get back in the fight without feeling like there's an enrage timer breathing down your neck. In Endwalker the only comparable content is Unreal. They aren't hard but not really a place I'd want to test out a job I'm unfamiliar with. In the absence of a new exploratory zone I was hoping variants would be ilvl capped too, but even Sil'dih requires you to gear out of your 89 AF gear to queue in. My big hope for Dawntrail's exploratory zone is that it doesn't reward exp, or that it goes back to the open map style of Eureka. The segmented map/skirmish spawning system alongside how exp is rewarded really hurts Zadnor in particular compared to how people are more willing to cross the maps for NMs. Hoping that with the expansion also including a deep dungeon that that content gets set for exp grinding. If it keeps the same zone segmenting you might still see this problem crop up with tomestone grinding though. I gotta assume the devs see people looping Zadnor area 3 and are willing to try something different next time. I expect the content will host the expansion's relic line, along with the alternate progression path outside the zone that worked well with Bozja. Just please don't keep the one-time step that's only done outside the content again.
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Mar 5, 2024 17:11
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Vitamean posted:The hidden value of eureka/bozja is how it's a level capped environment that's also gear synced. You can mess around with a job's full toolkit against boss-like encounters to better decide if you want to invest in gearing it up, and if you die it's not hard to get up and get back in the fight without feeling like there's an enrage timer breathing down your neck. The less like Eureka anything is, the better.
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Mar 6, 2024 00:09
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Eureka is better than Bozja. This is my hill.
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Mar 6, 2024 00:15
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give me pyros or hydatos as a zone but without the extra action farming nonsense
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Mar 6, 2024 00:53
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Duty actions are like the best part though. There's technically a BIS for each role but also getting minimum cast time on BLM or running honed acuity on tanks is really really funny.
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Mar 6, 2024 01:01
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They shouldn't be a consumable though. It just feels really weird to me and I dislike it.
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Mar 6, 2024 01:09
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I love famring 200 thingamajigs and only getting 3 of the actions I need to meld into another action. then wiping in BA, wasting it
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Mar 6, 2024 01:34
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looking forward to applying my permanent re-raiser/auto-potion/auto-ether/bravery buffs in the new forays
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Mar 6, 2024 01:40
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Anemos > Hydatos > Pyros > Zadnor > Southern Front > Pagos. Things I like: - A big zone that isn't just one look through the entire zone Things I dislike: - Logos/Lost actions. - Matsuno's writing - "Video gamey" placement of enemies. (Zadnor is the worst about this) Things I want: - No mounts period. Ever. Nobody can use mounts. - Get rid of Logos/Lost Actions. Or make them permanent, not consumable. I kinda don't like the implementation of critical engagements either. Make everyone run there and don't gate it off to late arrivals. Both Eureka and Bozja had a terribly boring story, but Eureka's was shorter so it wins points there. My "perfect" zone would be in the style of Anemos (a variety of environments within the zone), add the fates like SoFro/Zadnor, have the big enemy spawns be in the traditional Eureka style - not something you queue for, no one gets mounts, there are no lost actions (or they're not a consumable).
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Mar 6, 2024 01:41
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I guess in all the time I've spent in Eureka and Bozja I've never felt pressured from running low on actions. Most drop just from doing content and most of the rest that are necessary (awakening fragments, namely) are extremely easy to farm. One exception is, I think protectives in Eureka? Mainly because of how uncommon they are combined with how logogram crafting works. Thankfully they removed failing to create an action/deck from Bozja, so even the devs knew that was dog water.
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Mar 6, 2024 01:48
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1) I love the limited actions in Bozja/Eureka because that's how I makes the money, selling the kinds I don't use to other players 2) I prefer Critical Engagements over notorious monsters because you don't get the endless drama about early pullers 3) I don't like Bozja's general aesthetic, pastel catgirls/neon bunny boys got no place in the trenches.
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Mar 6, 2024 01:58
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Eureka zones use the environment better, with the verticality of dropping down onto ledges and the sleeping dragon chokepoints. The island does feel like much more of a character in the story than Bozja and I hope they can make that happen again.
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Mar 6, 2024 02:50
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FuturePastNow posted:Eureka zones use the environment better, with the verticality of dropping down onto ledges and the sleeping dragon chokepoints. The island does feel like much more of a character in the story than Bozja and I hope they can make that happen again. Zadnor especially felt intensely "video gamey" (derogatory) in design - especially enemy placement. A large portion of Zadnor is just groups of enemies in perfect circles - surrounding where the CEs spawn. It feels very inorganic.
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Mar 6, 2024 03:00
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my ideal is the weirdness of bozja, an improved lost action system (more permanent + crazier abilties) and CE's over NM's. CE's owned.
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Mar 6, 2024 04:22
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Mordiceius posted:Things I like: I'm morbidly curious as to why you want a large zone where getting from one end to the other is as slow and miserable as humanly possible.
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Mar 6, 2024 04:52
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I feel like, for Bozja at least, there's some people here who don't join parties asap on entering because there's usually a person or two farming and autosharing a bajillion action fragments. Some are still definitely bad though and a rework of the system would be nice.
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Mar 6, 2024 06:28
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W.T. Fits posted:I'm morbidly curious as to why you want a large zone where getting from one end to the other is as slow and miserable as humanly possible. I enjoyed running around Anemos on foot. It made it more exciting. It's far more dangerous than a moving around on a mount - where you can outrun anything you accidentally aggro. I want the exploratory zone to be dangerous. I want it to be where you have to move with caution - not barrel through to wherever.
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Mar 6, 2024 08:49
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I like having mounts in Bozja because it feels like the only time I can show off mounts to other players while doing actual content and not just ferrying myself to the next quest giver.
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Mar 6, 2024 08:54
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Bozja definitely felt better when it was current content. I'm sure Eureka did too but I wasn't around for that. As someone who ended up getting every note and like 5 relics, it was fine.
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Mar 6, 2024 12:30
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Mordiceius posted:I enjoyed running around Anemos on foot. It made it more exciting. It's far more dangerous than a moving around on a mount - where you can outrun anything you accidentally aggro. I'd rather the fights be fun and possible to get to in a non annoying way instead of boring like eureka where after one or two deaths you knew the developed created safe walking paths through a zone or at least could follow the conga line of the NM trains to learn them. Like in theory the dangerous overworld is cute but in practice since eureka is mostly just hunt trains its everyone walking to one safe path then standing in the safe squares pulling mobs that had way too much hp even at levem.
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Mar 6, 2024 14:35
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The terrain in Bozja was fugly, but, it was fugly in a way that helped sell to me that I was more or less in the trenches of an active warzone. Though yeah, enemy placement sucked, I didn't hate the map itself.
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Mar 6, 2024 15:28
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Kazy posted:Bozja definitely felt better when it was current content. I'm sure Eureka did too but I wasn't around for that. I love Eureka in its current state though. Gameplay outside of BA isn't the most compelling but I like being in big zones with a lot of people working toward common goals. One day I'll get that drat Molech's Claw for my unnecessary 7th magicite... or I'll just get impatient and spend the 1 million gil. the_steve posted:The terrain in Bozja was fugly, but, it was fugly in a way that helped sell to me that I was more or less in the trenches of an active warzone. Though yeah, enemy placement sucked, I didn't hate the map itself.
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Mar 6, 2024 16:47
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Kazy posted:I'm sure Eureka did too but I wasn't around for that. Eureka was poo poo at the time, and if you find anyone that says they liked it they're a proven liar. The one thing thing the whole of the FFXIV community can agree on is that Eureka, as launched, was bad. the_steve posted:The terrain in Bozja was fugly, but, it was fugly in a way that helped sell to me that I was more or less in the trenches of an active warzone. Though yeah, enemy placement sucked, I didn't hate the map itself. I liked the two maps aesthetically as well. Mob placement was too gamey but that's a different side of things. It's not like the Eureka maps I've seen are any better looking. Generic green place, the worst parts of Coerthas, etc.
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Mar 6, 2024 16:54
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Provably false lol.
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Mar 6, 2024 16:55
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Eureka was poo poo at the time, and if you find anyone that says they liked it they're a proven liar. The one thing thing the whole of the FFXIV community can agree on is that Eureka, as launched, was bad. Eureka had BA which is and remains my favorite piece of content in the game so no.
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Mar 6, 2024 16:56
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