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Declan MacManus posted:me and my partner got tear gassed, shot at by rubber bullets, had flash bangs deployed, and generally endured all manner of munitions being shot at us at the discretion of a democratic mayor for having the audacity to ask that police maybe be held a little bit accountable, and joe biden picked a cop as his running mate and made a point of saying most cops were good i dont anticipate anything getting better under biden but i could see things getting a lot worse under a trump 2nd term, that’s what im saying. im not gonna scold folks that feel like they need to hold their nose to vote for biden under those premises. ultimately as i said much earlier in the thread i wont be voting for joe biden because trump gave me $1200 and joe has offered me $0.
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Aug 21, 2020 15:49
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Taintrunner posted:lol "buying time against fascism" not everything that is a crime against humanity is fascism
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Aug 21, 2020 15:54
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jarofpiss posted:not everything that is a crime against humanity is fascism poo poo like this really shows how pathetic Biden defense ends up sounding you really wanna split hairs like this?
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Aug 21, 2020 17:16
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jarofpiss posted:not everything that is a crime against humanity is fascism liberals.txt
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Aug 21, 2020 17:23
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one of the few things in CSPAM which still bring me joy are the gormless liberals who occasionally trundle in to enlighten the local savages on real leftism
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Aug 21, 2020 17:31
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Biden has literally no other options to stop the protests besides a crack down. His stated goals and past necessitate it. The idea that we're going to get a 4 to 8 year reprieve from anything is completely unmoored from reality.
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Aug 21, 2020 18:03
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lol @ this thread becoming a honeypot for libs
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Aug 21, 2020 18:10
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i fully support Howie and earnestly encourage anyone, regardless of how much of a swing state they live in, to vote for him, but i am a little mystified by the implication made by the good posters itt that mass movement organizing for thing like the Green New Deal or M4A will be more effective or easier under Trump compared to Biden. at best I see there being very different challenges between the two, but I think anyone making the definitive claim of one or the other being 'better' for the success of american leftism (a thing that does not, at this point, functionally exist) is claiming a predictive power they cannot possess
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Aug 21, 2020 18:36
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you see, Biden will crack down on protests like that but Trpum!, he'll crack down on protests like this
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Aug 21, 2020 18:37
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But Rocks Hurt Head posted:you see, Biden will crack down on protests like that "Maybe we shouldn't crack down on protests." "Exactly what a Russian bot would say, comrade!"
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Aug 21, 2020 18:40
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here’s organizing for M4A and the GND under Biden is going to go: “healthcare pls” “lol no” “yaaassss Biden slay those problematic white Bros”
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Aug 21, 2020 18:41
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jarofpiss posted:i gotta go get in the shower but i am curious what you hope the outcome of this election will be bold of you to assume hope exists anymore. edit: i mean, i literally have unplugged from the presidential election at this point. i see myself and others getting a raw loving deal no matter if it's trump or biden. material conditions will not improve either way, and i'm not gonna applaud somebody who tweets politely but still has the boot on our loving necks. Gene Hackman Fan has issued a correction as of 19:10 on Aug 21, 2020 |
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Aug 21, 2020 18:43
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Taintrunner posted:here’s organizing for M4A and the GND under Biden is going to go: Well, we're three and a half years into trying to achieve the same ends under Trump with gently caress-all to show for it My only point here is that, if you're framing your theory of power for the left in america around the results of this election, regardless of who you think is 'necessary' to win, you're a loving moron
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Aug 21, 2020 18:49
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But Rocks Hurt Head posted:Well, we're three and a half years into trying to achieve the same ends under Trump with gently caress-all to show for it It's not so much that Biden winning will stymie it or that Trump winning will aid it. But Biden losing another loving election will help.
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Aug 21, 2020 19:11
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Jewel Repetition posted:You seen this? https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3916038 I have in fact seen that, but I'm reluctant to tox because even though Biden is like 98% as bad as Trump it might be worth it to me to vote for that 2% improvement. Can't blame anyone for not having the stomach for it, though.
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Aug 21, 2020 20:37
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how soon before we can start being openly hateful to these loving wokescolds? before joe eats poo poo in the general, after they eat poo poo in the general, or when the revolution comes and they're lining people up against the wall?
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Aug 21, 2020 21:10
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TehSaurus posted:I have in fact seen that, but I'm reluctant to tox because even though Biden is like 98% as bad as Trump it might be worth it to me to vote for that 2% improvement. It's a question of at what point you draw the line. If Joe is acceptable, is the next conservative acceptable? Is their inclusion of Kasich signaling that they're willing to be flexible on abortion and LGBT rights? When does the rightward march end? (it doesn't) Also anyone thinking that a liberal who has said multiple times that they don't plan to do anything will be an effective opposition to fascism is ignorant of history.
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Aug 21, 2020 21:19
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trying to decide if ronnie or barry raped anyone so i can say "every president ive ever lived under was a rapist" i mean surely hollywood and yale cover everyone up to clinton who covers himself, back to yale and yeah trump sooooo obama? only assumed non rapist?
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Aug 21, 2020 21:19
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Taintrunner posted:here’s organizing for M4A and the GND under Biden is going to go: my biggest fear is that biden is gonna poison the well of mainstream left wing discourse for a generation i lurk some of the d&d threads and a big question that pops up is “what do you realistically hope will happen” and not to get too blackpill with all this but i don’t really have hope at the national level? like i guess my ideal scenario is that biden dies before he can enact austerity and kamala is too chickenshit to cut social security or i guess trump wins but then the democrats somehow take the senate so the next four years are just a stalemate? i literally do not trust either party and i can’t understand how people are willing to form a coalition with the democrats much less a c t i v e l y s u p p o r t them; democrat just means “to the left of pinochet” and that encompasses a whole lot of people that i do not care for and don’t trust to not sell me and my concerns down the river as soon as the election cycle is over (or in this case as soon as the committee starts??) i’m not organizing to push biden left; it won’t work and i’ll get scolded to death as i get tear gas shot at me. i think i’m just done with electoral politics beyond the state level
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Aug 21, 2020 21:31
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WampaLord posted:poo poo like this really shows how pathetic Biden defense ends up sounding i haven't defended biden at all, my point is literally every american president commits atrocities but trump is a fascist
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Aug 21, 2020 23:00
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jarofpiss posted:i haven't defended biden at all, my point is literally every american president commits atrocities but trump is a fascist Sure, but Trump isn't even the worst president of this century.
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Aug 21, 2020 23:00
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Probably Magic posted:Sure, but Trump isn't even the worst president of this century.
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Aug 21, 2020 23:02
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Trump didn’t champion a war which killed a million innocent Muslims, in fact, he got elected because he spoke out against it. Biden and Powell, however - championed it.
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Aug 21, 2020 23:04
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Probably Magic posted:Sure, but Trump isn't even the worst president of this century. yeah he might be the last one though. it does seem like things are becoming more unstable and capital is showing itself incapable of stabilizing the status quo. trump seems interested in continued the dismantling and accelerating the decline of the american state with the goal of transforming the government from whatever it is now into an explicitly fascist government. i think the collapse is inevitable regardless of the outcome of the election but i'm not really confident in the ability of the left to effectively resist a second term trump that continues on the path he says he wants. regardless, there's no guarantee trump even agrees to leave office or doesn't incite mass right wing terrorism claiming election fraud when all is said and done. so it really may not matter in the end who wins. obviously the goal is the dismantling of this state and the creation of a worker controlled society, i'm just not sure we're ready to ascend into the vacuum of a collapsed american government where the left stands now. especially with state power currently being controlled by ideological fascists (and not just classic american president war criminals). given the above context i'm not gonna scold people that are scared and vote for biden. i'm (probably) not going to because i don't actually think it matters. i do find it funny that there's this cspam version of leftist that is all "hell yeah punch a fascist but no i won't vote against one"
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Aug 21, 2020 23:14
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jarofpiss posted:yeah he might be the last one though. it does seem like things are becoming more unstable and capital is showing itself incapable of stabilizing the status quo. trump seems interested in continued the dismantling and accelerating the decline of the american state with the goal of transforming the government from whatever it is now into an explicitly fascist government. i think the collapse is inevitable regardless of the outcome of the election but i'm not really confident in the ability of the left to effectively resist a second term trump that continues on the path he says he wants. regardless, there's no guarantee trump even agrees to leave office or doesn't incite mass right wing terrorism claiming election fraud when all is said and done. so it really may not matter in the end who wins. Gene Hackman Fan posted:i see myself and others getting a raw loving deal no matter if it's trump or biden. material conditions will not improve either way, the police state will still expand, and i'm not gonna vote for somebody just because they tweet politely but still has the boot on our loving necks.
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Aug 21, 2020 23:25
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jarofpiss posted:given the above context i'm not gonna scold people that are scared and vote for biden. i'm (probably) not going to because i don't actually think it matters. i do find it funny that there's this cspam version of leftist that is all "hell yeah punch a fascist but no i won't vote against one" the only way you can possibly reconcile 'vote against a fascist' as a statement equivalent to 'vote for joe biden' is if you think the literal entirety of the problem with the republican party is donald trump and solely donald trump because joe biden explicitly wants to be their friends according to joe biden
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Aug 21, 2020 23:28
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Zvahl posted:the only way you can possibly reconcile 'vote against a fascist' as a statement equivalent to 'vote for joe biden' is if you think the literal entirety of the problem with the republican party is donald trump and solely donald trump because joe biden explicitly wants to be their friends according to joe biden i'd presume if someone is going to vote for joe biden they also plan to vote against the rest of the republicans?
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Aug 21, 2020 23:31
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Again, weak liberals are who put fascists in power. Trump is a direct result of Obama doing jack poo poo to help anyone and now his more conservative #2 is trying to worm his way back in. I'm sure it will be different this time for some reason.
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Aug 21, 2020 23:31
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cenotaph posted:Again, weak liberals are who put fascists in power. Trump is a direct result of Obama doing jack poo poo to help anyone and now his more conservative #2 is trying to worm his way back in. I'm sure it will be different this time for some reason. yeah of course. im confused why anyone is getting the impression i said anything will get better if joe biden wins
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Aug 21, 2020 23:33
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jarofpiss posted:yeah of course. I don't think you said that, but I'm unconvinced that putting biden into office will even pump the brakes.
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Aug 21, 2020 23:36
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jarofpiss posted:yeah of course. i think it's the implication that they won't get any worse.
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Aug 21, 2020 23:36
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cenotaph posted:I don't think you said that, but I'm unconvinced that putting biden into office will even pump the brakes. what’s gonna stop him from a Patriot Act 2 or a Crime Bill 2? jackass wants Republicans in his cabinet and fetishizes reaching across the aisle
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Aug 21, 2020 23:38
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cenotaph posted:I don't think you said that, but I'm unconvinced that putting biden into office will even pump the brakes. Gene Hackman Fan posted:i think it's the implication that they won't get any worse. things will continue to get worse as capital becomes increasingly off balance and unable to maintain a status quo. biden won't fix any of this, nothing will get better, but things might not head as quickly to an explicitly fascist conclusion under him (as opposed to trump). that's been the entirety of what i've argued this entire thread. and i've said the framing of voting within the bourgeois electoral process as a sacrament with moral character is wrong. that got taintrunner calling me a liberal repeatedly and everyone assuming i'm arguing that you're somehow obligated to vote FOR biden when i've said nothing but the literal exact opposite.
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Aug 21, 2020 23:42
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Taintrunner posted:what’s gonna stop him from a Patriot Act 2 or a Crime Bill 2? jackass wants Republicans in his cabinet and fetishizes reaching across the aisle Oh believe me I'm 100% with you and I personally despise the man because of how his policies have affected me. He won't do poo poo. jarofpiss posted:things will continue to get worse as capital becomes increasingly off balance and unable to maintain a status quo. biden won't fix any of this, nothing will get better, but things might not head as quickly to an explicitly fascist conclusion under him (as opposed to trump). that's been the entirety of what i've argued this entire thread. and i've said the framing of voting within the bourgeois electoral process as a sacrament with moral character is wrong. I am sympathetic to your point about moralizing bourgeois electoralism but I also think voting joe is a tacit approval of white supremacy, rape, etc. and if you think voting does anything at all then sending a message to the democrats by not voting for them is morally preferable. That's my current line of reasoning but I'm not sure the democrats would take any message from a loss when they have voter suppression and electoral interference to blame.
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Aug 22, 2020 00:03
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jarofpiss posted:things will continue to get worse as capital becomes increasingly off balance and unable to maintain a status quo. biden won't fix any of this, nothing will get better, but things might not head as quickly to an explicitly fascist conclusion under him (as opposed to trump). that's been the entirety of what i've argued this entire thread. and i've said the framing of voting within the bourgeois electoral process as a sacrament with moral character is wrong. and i'm saying that biden won't even slow it down because he spent his entire career pushing for the same thing trump is now openly doing. we'll just have the added benefit of liberals tut-tutting people about all sorts of poo poo that biden will do that they derided trump for doing.
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Aug 22, 2020 00:04
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it's actually okay if you vote for biden on your mail in ballot. because it's going in a trash can. as it should.
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Aug 22, 2020 00:05
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the inherent contradictions of capital have been lain bare and the american electorate is like “ok cool well gonna cast my vote but thanks for the fun facts i guess??” i don’t think either president has a significant lead in terms of being the accelerationist’s choice; biden will slash safety nets but at least signal that fascism is maybe bad a little but not do much to stop it, while trump would never touch a third rail like that but is more than happy to endorse open fascist aesthetics and talking points basically it’s whether you want people to suffer while the quiet parts stay quiet, or if you want someone who says the quiet parts loud but has a vested interest in not killing the elderly directly; all paths lead to tom cotton
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Aug 22, 2020 00:05
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Dolphin posted:it's actually okay if you vote for biden on your mail in ballot. pls recycle, even if it has joe's name on it i assure you that can come off
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Aug 22, 2020 00:54
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jarofpiss posted:or i think that my partner probably wont get black bagged under biden and very much could under a second term trump He wrote the Patriot Act. Your partner is in danger no matter what.
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Aug 22, 2020 01:08
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jarofpiss posted:things will continue to get worse as capital becomes increasingly off balance and unable to maintain a status quo. biden won't fix any of this, nothing will get better, but things might not head as quickly to an explicitly fascist conclusion under him (as opposed to trump). that's been the entirety of what i've argued this entire thread. and i've said the framing of voting within the bourgeois electoral process as a sacrament with moral character is wrong. No one is saying that you are telling others to vote Biden, nice straw-man. Look man you seem like a decent dude with a decent amount of insight. But let me tell you this plainly: poo poo is hosed no matter what. There is no way to shorten, improve or allay the pain that's coming. It's already well baked into the system. BUT: Putting that rapist gramps back into the office, will absolutely put the entire media apparatus in lock-step. They will write largely positive coverage of him, winding down their Trump escalation poo poo. And instead we get a media "gleischschaltung" that would have given loving Goebbels a chub. And then the foreign bombings will start, all the while the now scattered liberal-class will gain more clout to enact their vision of fascism, but with a light touch. Don't be a loving idiot. Write in Howie.
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Aug 22, 2020 01:16
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