Bad Fantasy Books (Dragonlance, Pern, Xanth, and more)

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Bad Fantasy Books (Dragonlance, Pern, Xanth, and more)

ExecuDork: Feb 25, 2007; We might be fucked, sir.; Fallen Rib

Kaiser Mazoku posted:

Maps are helpful if the story involves warfare and political intrigue and characters in-story are actually referring to maps themselves to plan their great conquest.

I agree. I'm just about through C.J. Cherryh's Fortress in the Eye of Time, and while it's basically good (no sign of the creepy sex stuff so common among the bad books mentioned in this thread, some interesting social dynamics told from an interesting perspective) one big downside is the map. Yes, I'll admit to flipping back to the front of the book from time to time because I like maps. The map for Fortress Book 1 is terrible. The characters very frequently talk about national borders, rivers, provinces of the empire and how far apart all these things are from each other and usually refering to cardinal directions. The province of the empire where almost the entire novel takes place is special for several reasons, most prominently its position at the edge of empire, separated from a historical enemy by a river and vulnerable to both overt and covert attack from that enemy. But none of these details can be seen on the map. The names of places on the map do not match the names used in the text. The big labelled features never appear in the text. And the use of cardinal directions in the book sometimes seem to flip, like the author made a mistake and wrote "south" when she should have written "west" or "north", like the editor just glossed over every bit of geography.

Black August posted:

I still appreciate this thread. Reading about Derkholm makes me want to write a story about a Dark Lord's underlings getting a union to back their demands for better treatment.

I remember reading a story like this. I had thought it was Yahtzee Crowshaw's Mogworld but I'm not sure. Anyway, the main protagonist is a zombie (or possibly a skeleton) raised by a necromancer to be mindless labour building his castle and dungeon. But he turns out to have sentience and after a little while he ends up negotiating working conditions for the entire undead workforce, using basic arguments like "we should be paid for our labour" to convince the quite-reasonable necromancer. There were some funny scenes with the necromancer coming to the realisation that even though an animated skeleton doesn't eat, doesn't sleep, and can't stray beyond sight of the cursed castle, the skeleton still deserves a day off now and then.

nonathlon posted:

Took me a helluva time to catch up with the thread, so I'm belatedly joining in on Spider Robinson.

I'm glad somebody brought him up. I read a few of the Callaghan's books back in high school and I thought they were just fun little faffs about how happy the author was to find himself semi-retired and living in the Florida Keys. They also reminded me (superficially) of Larry Niven's Tales from the Draco Tavern short stories (aliens come to Earth and hang out at a bar. Hijinks ensue).
But I knew Robinson was more active as a critic than as a writer. And then he wrote an editorial in a newspaper that was widely syndicated (this would have been late 90's, maybe early 2000s) basically saying climate change was impossible because climate models were "bunk" (and therefore: "climate science is bunk"). That just pissed me off and I stopped paying attention to him.

# ¿ Nov 3, 2020 03:04

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 16:50

ExecuDork: Feb 25, 2007; We might be fucked, sir.; Fallen Rib

I own about 35 GURPS books, but I've never played the game. I just like the sourcebooks, Russia is a particular favourite. They're usually about evenly split between stuff you could throw into any RPG (or, for that matter, fiction you were writing, copyright concerns about particular fantasy/sci-fi worlds notwithstanding) and stuff that's specifically written for the GURPS rules but is flexible and generalised enough that you could pretty easily adapt it to your RPG of choice.

The examples and other oddball bits they put in the margins are good fun, too. I can particularly recommend the play-by-play in GURPS Hi-Tech (gunpowder to approx the year 2000) for using crew-served weapons in two situations: French gunners with a 10-lb cannon vs. a Dutch secret weapon in the hundred years war the secret weapon is a Tyrannosaurus rex. It gets shredded by grapeshot "unless it makes its dodge roll" and Kansas National Guard long-range artillery circa 1925 vs. "A Thing Man Was Not Meant To Know" The artillery spotter gets too close and has his mind invaded by the psychic powers of the space squid, shortly before the battery scores a direct hit and banishes the beast back to the void.

Each book has a different author (or occassionally team of authors) but there are line editors and other full-time employees of Steve Jackson Games that keep some consistency. They wouldn't put up with any of the stupid, ugly, bullshit sex stuff that so many fantasy and sci-fi authors seem unable to resist writing about (one-handed).

\/\/\/ Absolutely. From memory (don't have the books with me) the author of GURPS Cops was a Boston PD detective for like a decade before becoming a lawyer (and becoming either a prosecutor or a defense lawyer, can't remember) so she had buckets of direct experience with almost everything in the book.

ExecuDork fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Nov 4, 2020

# ¿ Nov 4, 2020 06:04

ExecuDork: Feb 25, 2007; We might be fucked, sir.; Fallen Rib

I read an unfortunate amount of Piers Anthony in my youth, too. I blame my friends and the easy access to heaps of lowbrow Sci-Fi and Fantasy on their parents' bookshelves.

If I'd stuck to what was on the bookshelves at home, I'd have read endless mystery novels. I'm much happier with a Larry Niven or a David Drake than I am with a Sue Grafton or a Patricia Cornwell.

Piers Anthony would be in a special, rather icky class by himself if not for all the other authors mentioned in this thread who type one-handed. I enjoyed Firefly when I was 15, I doubt I'd like it today. I think there's something about living in Florida that really fucks with minds. Or maybe it's just the correlation between old men and Florida as a retirement destination. Anyway, Anthony is a mess, and Spider Robinson lost his goddam mind when he switched from critiquing the work of others and started writing his own stories.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2022 01:22

ExecuDork: Feb 25, 2007; We might be fucked, sir.; Fallen Rib

Jack-Off Lantern posted:

I wanna mention the Elminster Series of books here, too. Its about a fighter, thief, mage mary sue named Elminster, chosen of Mystra, who was a girl in a book or two Mary-sueing his way through books. They're not good.
They're also Forgotten Realms sooooooo.

Yuuuup. Any book with Elminster as a character in it is terrible. I read one or two, and a couple of short stories in some anthologies and just... no, he sucks. Sometimes, for no apparent reason, the description of (young) Elminster waking up as a girl after some magical experimentation rattles around in my head. Mainly the phrase "swaying sensation" Elminster-the-girl looks down at herself and is suprised to find her breasts

The other stand-out scene involves a really, really stupid setpiece of mages measuring their dicks with a fireball contest. Elminster - in disguise, naturally - wins by launching the magical equivalant of a nuke. And everybody stood up and clapped! of course.

EDIT: Dragon Magazine (I had a subscription for a few years, from about age 16 to 20 or 21) ran a series of essays by major names in D&D (incluing Gygax and Arneson, I think), a kind of "this is how I got into D&D/RPGs/Fantasy". Ed Greenwood's (creator of Forgotten Realms) essay included a comely young woman knocking him down with a real sword and ~~saying~~ breathing "Play with me" to him, age 14 or so. That was the first thing I'd ever read that I thought might have been written one-handed.

ExecuDork fucked around with this message at 11:26 on Mar 30, 2022

# ¿ Mar 30, 2022 11:21

ExecuDork: Feb 25, 2007; We might be fucked, sir.; Fallen Rib

Razakai posted:

There was some sort of spooky ghost monster that would not only kill you if it touched you, but make it so you no longer existed - everyone's memory of you would be erased, etc etc.

That's basically the main point of John Dies at the End. John doesn't die, but another character does about 1/2-way through and is erased. All of the other characters simply stop talking about him. Their story becomes/always was "crazy poo poo happened to the four of us", and it's only in the author notes at the end of the book that the reader is reminded that five characters got together in the first few chapters. I wonder if David Wong / Jason Pargin read that Dragonlance story when he was younger.

****
I remember a Dragonlance book that was basically "what if WWII air combat but DRAGONS!" and while the fact I read it age 17 probably matters, I remember it being one of two books I've ever had to pause reading just to pump my fist and say "gently caress yeah!" Good times.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2022 00:09

ExecuDork: Feb 25, 2007; We might be fucked, sir.; Fallen Rib

HelloIAmYourHeart posted:

what was the other?

A pulp sci-fi formerly-two-volumes-now-one-900-page-monster probably written in the late 70's or early 80's by some author I can't remember. The whole thing is set a couple of centuries in the future. In book 1, the protagonists gradually learn that a large number of Nazi scientists and politicians escaped from Germany at the end of WWII and launched into space, and established a colony somewhere. I can't remember exactly where, but among Jupiter's moons is the leading contender in my memory. In book 2, the descendants of said space-Nazis return to Earth and try to invade and Take Over The World! The Space-Nazi strategy is basically a Deathstar, but instead of detonating Alderaan they're going to land the fucker in the Atlantic ocean and unleash many, many Stormtroopers. You know, as is the obvious strategy in these kinds of things.

It was schlocky as hell and I needed an especially large crane to suspend my disbelief about the whole drat thing. But it was also written very well (to my 19-year-old eyes) and impressively fast-paced. The Deathstar turning towards re-entry was a genuinely surprising moment, and throughout the whole book there were plenty of car chases, aerial dogfights, sneaky spy/saboteur scenes, and (this is most important) lots and lots of sex. I wish I could remember the author, or the title, or anything else about the book.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2022 01:15

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 16:50

ExecuDork: Feb 25, 2007; We might be fucked, sir.; Fallen Rib

Comstar posted:

I remember reading several Thieves' World anthologies back in the '80s.

I loving loved Thieves World. The next time I see one in a used bookstore I'll almost certainly buy it. They were fun! Your characterisation as "Beirut with elves and magical swords" is pretty spot-on.

nonathlon posted:

Thieve's World was an anthology series much like Wild Cards - hatched by a band of writers lead by a central figure, starting with some decent authors writing decent stories, but over time suffering bad power creep, and the series becoming dominated by a small set of hack authors. I recollect some of the original stories were done by award-wining authors. But I got tired of the books about 3-4 in, then some years later found something like volume 10 and read it, spending most of my time bewildered as to how they managed to get to the situation within from the stories I'd read.

OK, maybe I'll check the volume number before I buy it (if/when I see one). I know I really enjoyed the first 3-4, and I think I read like #6. One thing I really liked (and this is a bit lame and trivial, sure, but I like it) was having the protagonist or other main characters of one story appear as secondary characters in other stories in the same volume, by other authors. I also liked trying to identify the characters on the cover, who were generally illustrated in close proximity to each other even if they appeared in very different stories.

Groke posted:

Oooh, this sounds familiar. Except the way I remember it, it wasn't Earth but some colony planet (mainly colonized by Finnish people?) and I think the Space Nazis weren't OG Nazis but some kind of neo-Nazi revival movement.

I kind of want to say early Kevin J Anderson, but that could be wrong and he's shat out so many books it's hard to find a complete list even on the Internet.

Entirely possible!

Your comment about Finns reminded me of another book that maybe belongs here. I tried to read the Draka Trilogy by S.M. Stirling when I was in my early 20's and I couldn't get through it. I think I made it to the first few chapters of Book 3 and had to put it down. It was too hopeless. Every hint of a good guy protagonist gets horribly murdered just as soon as you think they're going to accomplish some tiny thing against the utterly evil Domination (aka The Draka).

The Finnish connection is a scene stuck in my memory where an American (free) secret agent encounters a leader of the Finnish resistance against the Draka that have recently conquered his country. The American asks what the still-free parts of the world could do to help. The answer is "invade". The resistance leader is captured and brutally executed - the Draka are fond of impaling - a few pages later, the American escapes back across the Atlantic but I didn't keep reading and find out what happened to him. I assume he was impaled, too, it happened a lot in the first two books.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2022 02:57

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