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Agreed, they also smoothed out the use of some Ascensions that were kinda meh. Overall just some buffs really.
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Jun 4, 2023 00:22
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As much as I like the game, it has some flaws that I don't understand how they aren't improved at this point. Like, the loot progression, it seems designed as if the players won't upgrade the weapons, ever, so they are hopelessly outdated by the point you reach Fjord (or even by the last stage of Desert). Even if you find a weapon with super ideal afixes, if it's level 9 and you have a level 18 weapon in your hands, it's too late at this point, the DPS is at the end of the day the most important thing, it's going to be scrapped for gold. And a half a dozen weapons need a buff soo much. Just yesterday I tried to make the Arc Light work. Despite focusing on it, it was like swimming upstream, I ended up needing four times the usual time to kill one ufo, for example, and the final boss killed me at the end. Even for things with shield it wasn't very good. edit: speaking of, new weapons -Wolf Gaze is just ok, in mechanics and and slightly underpowered in efficiency. -Jet Octopus is great, original mechanics and a good, usable weapon -Brick is a brick! Again a good weapon, it's cool to try to chain brick throws with the starlight and... it hits like a brick. -Star Ring is bad. It can be a decent weapon in damage dealt, but it feels a very boring weapon. Hold mouse1, hold mouse2, hold mouse1... Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Jun 5, 2023 |
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Jun 5, 2023 07:43
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Speaking of, sort of, that Transcendental Armory thing seems utterly useless? Like you miss out on 2-3 scrolls for enabling it, so that sucks, but cool, you can bank some awesome weapon you might find mid run, but was too late in to switch over to it, so maybe for next game right? Naaa that would make sense... you can't actually withdraw it until again, way to late in a run when you might've wanted it earlier, so like what's the point of this? Not that I want more power creep in this game, nor does the game need it, it's literally in a brain dead state now, so letting the player take their level +50 Illusion with 3 exclusive inscriptions into a fresh run is not what I'm suggesting, but maybe something can be done with it, maybe have the weapon get stripped of level and inscriptions, but you can save 1 inscription or something like that, also make it so you can't bank the same weapon over and over. I also think the new DLC characters suck, they're OP to a crazy degree... Don't get me wrong, I like big numbers as much as the next guy, but I also like having the "I earned this" feeling of a victory, currently the Mech just solos games with little to no effort, and Owl has his "turn brain off" Q build. These things need nerfs badly. /showerthoughts
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Jun 5, 2023 08:56
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Ive banked a couple run-winning weapons I can swap to if I'm severely behind / non-lucky with drops, i kinda like it. What is bullshit is that the weapon deposit dudes are considered "treasure" for the purposes of vaults - so you can clear a vault and the only reward is the presence of a weaponswap location. I'm 99% sure retrieving a weapon from the depossit also levels it down - I've deposited level 25+ guns and when withdrawing them during a later run they were set at level 9, so you can't whip out a +50 Tiger Cannon from the first Vault in the desert or something Fishstick fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Jun 5, 2023 |
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Jun 5, 2023 09:03
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Im_Special posted:
I was doing this face :O when I saw that Nona's talent for the mech to revive you. I thought it was a one time thing (and even if it was a single time revive, it still would be good!)... nope, it has infinite uses. And with how tanky the mech can be, and he isn't interrupted by enemy fire, he almost always revives you. That's on top of all the rest of BS with its stupid damage output. Owl's Q build remind me of the Tiger's lightning everywhere build there was when he was released, he had to be nerfed one or two months later, because it was a too 'automatic' play style. I have the feeling the DLC is being done by the interns while the main devs are busy starting to work on whatever new game.
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Jun 5, 2023 09:11
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Die? Just get that one blessing where your mech can't die if Nona's still up, now you can just hide/afk around a corner! Fear not if you cannot get that blessing, a single level in Hardwood Armor will do too!
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Jun 5, 2023 09:31
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Turin Turambar posted:As much as I like the game, it has some flaws that I don't understand how they aren't improved at this point. Like, the loot progression, it seems designed as if the players won't upgrade the weapons, ever, so they are hopelessly outdated by the point you reach Fjord (or even by the last stage of Desert). Even if you find a weapon with super ideal afixes, if it's level 9 and you have a level 18 weapon in your hands, it's too late at this point, the DPS is at the end of the day the most important thing, it's going to be scrapped for gold. I don't entirely disagree that it gets weird how many weapons drop over the course of a run yet only maybe 10% are worth even thinking about, but if you find killer affixes it can absolutely be worth accepting the level downgrade. Pretty sure weapon levels tend to be a very linear increase in power whereas most inscriptions will add multiplicative power. Granted, it's been a while and I don't remember things usually dropping with that severe of a level gap in the first place. As for Arc Light, I don't know what you were doing wrong but IME it is actually pretty drat good. Your examples are strange because UFOs are usually pretty tanky unless your build has really kicked off and without a proper build backing it up I would never expect it to singlehandedly murder Pole Monarch either. Between a 3x crit multiplier letting it pop things on headshots and the secondary skill doing silly things it's a fantastic room clear weapon first and foremost. Of the three kunai weapons it's the one least in need of a buff. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Jun 5, 2023 |
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Jun 5, 2023 13:18
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John Murdoch posted:I don't entirely disagree that it gets weird how many weapons drop over the course of a run yet only maybe 10% are worth even thinking about, but if you find killer affixes it can absolutely be worth accepting the level downgrade. Pretty sure weapon levels tend to be a very linear increase in power whereas most inscriptions will add multiplicative power. Granted, it's been a while and I don't remember things usually dropping with that severe of a level gap in the first place. Arc Light is really good with the affix that creates a lightning ball on crit. Otherwise, I use it with the cat when I'm doing a non-sniper run because the crit stat is high enough to reliably trigger Lightning From Void and it's thematically appropriate. Re: weapon levels, I think they become more important on the higher difficulty levels. I definitely wouldn't want to be rocking a level 4-8ish weapon in the desert, which is what drops. While you probably don't need to get everything to level 25 by the time you hit the last boss, you are definitely constrained by the power curve and the Craftsman's upgrade limit. By the time you start reliably seeing exclusive inscriptions, the only things you're interested in are the special ones (forget what they're called) that synergize with your unequipped weapon.
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Jun 7, 2023 16:49
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Geminis are a good example of the multiplicative power I'm talking about tho. Granted, runs where rerolling just absolutely refuses to give me the one I want, ever, are fairly uncommon but rerolling them is still a gamble and a money sink with its own pros and cons. Ultimately I take it as another facet of the metagame same as evaluating weapons in general or budgeting your money or whatever. It's not the right choice 100% of the time, but it can be the right choice often enough that it's worth considering instead of blindly trashing all of your drops because they're lower level than what you've already got. True that it depends on where you're at in the run, same as a lot of other metagame aspects. Though  at the idea that exclusives are nbd. Heck, there's some common/rare ones that can break the game if they just happen to end up on the right gun. Geminis are important but they aint the whole story just like weapon levels aren't.Maybe the margins are that much tighter on R8, but like, there's ten other difficulty levels below that...
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Jun 7, 2023 17:19
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John Murdoch posted:Geminis are a good example of the multiplicative power I'm talking about tho. Granted, runs where rerolling just absolutely refuses to give me the one I want, ever, are fairly uncommon but rerolling them is still a gamble and a money sink with its own pros and cons. The share magazine sizes one can be pretty game changing depending on the weapon you pair it with. Even sharing elemental affixes is pretty strong. One of my early builds was to always go for dual fang mainland and lightning sword offhand with the elemental share gemini, all three elements on one weapon is really good
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Jun 7, 2023 17:26
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I know, that's what I'm saying. If I had to lose a few weapon levels to enable triple elements, I'd take that deal in a heartbeat.
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Jun 7, 2023 17:32
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John Murdoch posted:I know, that's what I'm saying. If I had to lose a few weapon levels to enable triple elements, I'd take that deal in a heartbeat. ah ok, yeah on my builds where I go weapon damage usually its something I pick up really early on, inscribed at level 5 and just upgraded from there. It's funny to see really nice weapons drop from the pole monarch that are 20 levels lower than mine, though I guess thats what the transcendental armory is for now?
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Jun 7, 2023 17:35
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I guess to put what I'm saying a bit more succinctly, I don't think there's one single overriding scaling factor on weapon power. In the abstract, 20 base weapon damage multiplied by 250 multiplicative buffs equals 5000 damage. Well, 10 base damage times 500 is...still 5000. All things equal, the higher level weapon will obviously always come out ahead, but there's plenty of inscriptions that can make seemingly inferior drops punch well above their raw level. Obviously if you can find something early and crank it up so you get the best of both worlds, that's ideal, but I've certainly had runs where the build didn't come together until something particularly shiny and nice dropped in late stage 2 or even as late as stage 3. And even stage 4 has on rare occasion produced some cracked out nonsense. Though I suppose if I'm slightly less strict about pumping the same weapon's level all game long I end up seeing slightly smaller gaps in what's dropping vs. what I'm carrying.  And like I said, I do agree a lot of chaff drops either way.Also as a side note while geminis are very important, they're also the one type of inscription you get some actual control over so my modus operandi is to shop around for something stupid strong and then take it to silly heights by customizing the gemini as needed. Great if I can get a naturally dropped gemini, but I'm way more interested in busted normal/rare/exclusive inscriptions over anything else since you can't really control those beyond some cursed chest shenanigans. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 18:34
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John Murdoch posted:I know, that's what I'm saying. If I had to lose a few weapon levels to enable triple elements, I'd take that deal in a heartbeat. Speaking of, the Painkiller blessing is ludicrously good now. It gives a chance to apply ALL elemental effects when you apply an elemental effect, and still gives you the reverse effects buff (regen when on fire, etc). Some lightning gloves with "spread elemental effect" and/or "hit enemies twice" and you're set. gently caress You And Diebold posted:ah ok, yeah on my builds where I go weapon damage usually its something I pick up really early on, inscribed at level 5 and just upgraded from there. It's funny to see really nice weapons drop from the pole monarch that are 20 levels lower than mine, though I guess thats what the transcendental armory is for now? Unless you're doing like a very weaponheavy build (eg: dualwield dog, sniper cat) I don't think you really NEED to go over like level 20 or 25 for weapons. I looked at my log just now and all our recent R8 clears in duo have been with level 25 or under weapons, but those are mostly skillfocused builds like gasnade cat or blossom bunny. You can probably save some money waiting to upgrade a gun until later, or until you're certain it's very unlikely something much better than that roll will drop.
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Jun 7, 2023 18:43
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John Murdoch posted:I know, that's what I'm saying. If I had to lose a few weapon levels to enable triple elements, I'd take that deal in a heartbeat. I think the core of this discussion is around that fact that especially in the later levels, 'few' means 10 or more, which is pretty steep
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Jun 7, 2023 20:08
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The weapon enhancement levels could probably be adjusted, yeah. A system where like, there's a max level per area and weapons drop at ~3 levels below it would go a long way towards weapon drops actually meaning something later on, instead of just grabbing a good weapon in desert and using it forever.
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Jun 7, 2023 20:46
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Osmosisch posted:I think the core of this discussion is around that fact that especially in the later levels, 'few' means 10 or more, which is pretty steep And I'm saying that in practice it's not necessarily as steep as it looks. Though it's very subjective based on every other gameplay factor - inscriptions, scrolls, ascensions, stage, etc.
John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 21:27
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What I know is that my success rate greatly increased once I learned to choose a weapon early to "main" and invest all the gold on it (beyond getting a gemini inscription for the other weapon) And the youtubers I see playing high Reincarnation difficulty do the same.
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Jun 7, 2023 21:32
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If you find something good enough early on it's perfectly fair to invest gold into that and never let go. I'm not saying that's an improper strategy. High Reincarnation also forces your hand to figure something out ASAP or die to the first Elite, and overall shrinks the wiggle room on this stuff. Let me requote what I was originally responding to though: Turin Turambar posted:Even if you find a weapon with super ideal afixes, if it's level 9 and you have a level 18 weapon in your hands, it's too late at this point, the DPS is at the end of the day the most important thing, it's going to be scrapped for gold. In my mind "super ideal affixes" means "massive DPS multipliers" because that's what most ideal inscriptions would do for any given weapon (ie, we're not talking about niceities like +accuracy on the Firescale). Losing 9 levels of base damage isn't nothing but in this hypothetical trade if you lose that 135% base damage only to gain 500% damage from inscriptions uh, the choice is kind of obvious? John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 22:01
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John Murdoch posted:If you find something good enough early on it's perfectly fair to invest gold into that and never let go. I'm not saying that's an improper strategy. Oh but that's my point. It should be an improper strategy. That's what I don't like it! It's a FPS with only two main weapons (which imo is already a bit too few, i wish they would be 4), so I want to have to use both properly. Ideally, the best and most effective way to play the game would be using the two weapons commonly by the player, swapping depending of a range of factors, like range, ammo, enemy behavior, damage type, etc. That's a main mechanic in FPS! Alas, factors like ammo are very easily mitigated by several scrolls (and the game showers with ammo in any case, you have to very specific combinations of scrolls and weapons to deplete your ammo), and because usually weapon A is much better than weapon B (Because weapon levels, inscriptions, etc), I find using weapon A 100% of the time, even when the damage type in theory is bad for a particular enemy (say, fire weapon against a shielded enemy) or even if I have a cluster of enemies in front and I have a AoE weapon on the other slot. The damage difference can get so big than using the 'wrong type' of weapon kills them faster, even more taking in account that you waste a bit of time swapping weapons back and forth. I appreciate Gunfire boldness in the roguelike aspects, but having good FPS combat always come first. And part of having good combat for me is weapon switching.
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Jun 7, 2023 22:27
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Like...I don't even really disagree with that either but none of that has anything to do with writing off inscriptions in favor of raw weapon levels.
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Jun 7, 2023 22:40
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I know , in hindsight I didn't explain myself well at first, and then the conversation went sideways towards weapon levels vs inscriptions...
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Jun 7, 2023 22:43
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I don't want to be switching weapons mid-fight all the time, but I definitely would appreciate feeling freer to experiment with whatever drops. I actually think the weapon upgrading is a bit of a drag on the game. If it's gotta say in, a way to transfer levels between weapons, and perhaps have a couple of inventory slots you can keep spares in instead of having to leave someting behind if you want to try something new would help a lot.
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Jun 7, 2023 22:55
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drat I was gonna post about how I got both new frames for each DLC character and retract some of my earlier statements about how busted Yugi-Owl is. Yugi-Owl's frame is far and away one of the harder frames to get. Only take Normal scrolls tbh, the sheer amount you can get compared to epic or legendary scrolls outweighs the lesser bonuses provided by normal scrolls. You also need to explicitly avoid taking the occult scrolls that give you a random assortment of other scrolls on pick up because you risk being given an epic or legendary scroll. You can't take curses in any shape or form because those probably also count! Make sure if you're trying to reset a scroll you've picked up in your inventory that you drop it first on the off chance it upgrades a tier. I actually ended up dropping down to R1 instead of my usual R4 to do this because the handful of runs I kept messing up on I found myself struggling to actually keep my damage up unless I hit the right ascensions (I was doing a card build). My first run with Yugi-Owl must have been particularly blessed to have it so easy. Red Panda is heckin' easy, you just restart till you get the Spiritual Blessing that makes it so Iron Wing can't die as long as you aren't knocked down, boom free frame you just need to win the game. Which isn't hard, though for Macross XLR Missile build you need to hit the right blessings asap, and some of the right occult scrolls. When you do though it's really fuckin' funny. My two cents on the weapon situation in the game: I'm an ability build bitch so I don't typically focus on finding really good weapons early, I just pick up and swap out weapons till about end of Desert while keeping an eye out for a solid inscription combo on a weapon I like. I typically go out of my way to experiment cause the guns in the game continue to surprise me with how effective you can find one when you have the right build. Picking up a weapon to slam upgrades into very early is a consistent way to win, but IMO boring and not very fun. If you can't etch a Gemini inscription onto a weapon as the weaponsmith's etch, it's too early to overinvest imo. Just how I feel though, sometimes you hit a god weapon early.
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Jun 9, 2023 23:05
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Evil Kit posted:My two cents on the weapon situation in the game: I'm an ability build bitch so I don't typically focus on finding really good weapons early, I just pick up and swap out weapons till about end of Desert while keeping an eye out for a solid inscription combo on a weapon I like. I typically go out of my way to experiment cause the guns in the game continue to surprise me with how effective you can find one when you have the right build. that's definitely my approach, sometimes you get the nuts early but generally speaking you don't need your final weapon until after the act 2 boss, and you get some really good combos that way you do not remotely need level 30 weapons to clear R8 with weapon based builds, and proper gemini inscriptions can make up for a lot of missing weapon levels, and if you want to be boring some are at least as consistent as forcing an early drop (spore gemini) I do wonder if some peoples' experiences vary depending on whether they're playing solo and/or how many people they're playing with though - i.e. the appeal of the shared elemental gemini falls of significantly with more players because of how miasma scales + being able to inflict your own decay for explosions becomes less urgent with more players e: in fact, you don't need a weapon on R8 Mysterious Jokul at all - level 29 demonlore with essentially infinite ammo, full stacks, high explosive proc chance, etc. and it's not even worth the effort to pull the trigger  https://i.imgur.com/6RitOqB.mp4 (lol Nona is ridiculous, though admittedly this is with a lot of the mech/missile ascensions + blessings) LGD fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Jun 14, 2023 |
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Jun 14, 2023 04:49
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I picked up this game + DLC on sale to play with a buddy. Haven't gotten far in but so far I'm enjoying it and it seems like a good fit for our "low stakes, about an hour of play while chatting" play style. Is there anything to watch out for when starting out in the Talent trees? I know some games can have seemingly good choices that are actually useless or even make gameplay less fun.
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Jul 15, 2023 14:08
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Youre basically gonna max out the tree regardless so theres no locking yourself out of any choices or anything. Theres a couple that make your early runs a lot easier though, most notably any of the damage reduction/revive ones. But eventually youll max out all talents, so no worries.
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Jul 15, 2023 14:20
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There are a few talents that really open the game up. Primarily ones deeper down on the far right and left trees, the former introducing gemini and exclusive inscriptions and the latter expanding the economy of the game with recycling. But they're also competing with the interior trees, which give you a ton of raw gun stats and lots of co-op specific advantages respectively. Ultimately things are balanced such that you can't really hyper-specialize nor truly screw up though.
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Jul 15, 2023 17:25
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If you’re mostly playing co-op, get the revive talents. They will salvage runs far more than points elsewhere.
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Jul 16, 2023 19:47
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DNK posted:If you’re mostly playing co-op, get the revive talents. They will salvage runs far more than points elsewhere. Gonna echo this as my talent tree advice, with the cavet that if you have a particular hero you really like get their hero specific talents asap. Majority of heros have a few hero specific talents that *really* makes them feel better to play. As for general advice, once you feel comfortable beating Normal move up to Elite, and once you're comfortable there move to Nightmare. Beating Nightmare is important because it unlocks Reincarnation mode where you can select Spiritual Blessings during runs and those really open the game up for some insane fun. While Spiritual Blessings cost meta currency on a per run basis, you will always make more of the currency back if you clear a world per spiritual blessings you take.
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Jul 17, 2023 17:45
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Love me some brick I'll tell you what.
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Jul 18, 2023 02:01
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Shifty Pony posted:Love me some brick I'll tell you what.
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Jul 18, 2023 02:07
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Fine! I'll come back to your game for Reincarnation Level 9 and the Bizarre Dream. Update Notes - 8/25
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Aug 25, 2023 08:35
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It seems Turtle has been redone? Or heavily rebalanced. They replace 3 ascensions for new ones, and rebalanced the rest too.
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Aug 25, 2023 09:10
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https://store.steampowered.com/app/2605790/Deep_Rock_Galactic_Rogue_Core/ DRG devs want the Gunfire Reborn money! :P
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Oct 5, 2023 22:45
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Turin Turambar posted:https://store.steampowered.com/app/2605790/Deep_Rock_Galactic_Rogue_Core/ I'm totally okay with this. DRG is one of the all-time greats, and it's actually what ultimately pulled my group away from Gunfire Reborn. They're also making a Vampire Survivors-like, which I'm also okay with.
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Oct 5, 2023 22:56
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Roguelikes are about the ideal way for me to play since having a kid, so I welcome it. I'm hoping it keeps at least the biomes from the base game because the sameness of the acts in Gunfire is my main complaint about it.
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Oct 6, 2023 12:25
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Shifty Pony posted:Roguelikes are about the ideal way for me to play since having a kid, so I welcome it. Even in stock Deep Rock Galactic, the missions are extremely short. Rarely more than 20-25 minutes unless you're doing a multi-mission Deep Dive.
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Oct 6, 2023 18:03
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WhiteHowler posted:Even in stock Deep Rock Galactic, the missions are extremely short. Rarely more than 20-25 minutes unless you're doing a multi-mission Deep Dive. Not the OP, but I find that 20-25 minutes are too long and I don’t even have a kid yet. 10-15 min is my ideal loop for something that I may play solo.
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Oct 6, 2023 19:44
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 00:15 |
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WhiteHowler posted:Even in stock Deep Rock Galactic, the missions are extremely short. Rarely more than 20-25 minutes unless you're doing a multi-mission Deep Dive. the issue is you can't pause (unless you play solo mode? It's been so long I don't genuinely remember). Hell I don't even have kids and it's the reason I prefer single player games at times.
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Oct 6, 2023 20:34
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