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I vote for Concealing shadows Balanced rulings Apex Vellum Citadel
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Aug 31, 2020 21:26
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resurgam40 posted:So when approaching this game, that's what I suggest a first playthrough to be: not trying to be a hero or villain, but to honestly do as you would do if you were pretty much an extrajudicial agent interpreting a body of law. That's exactly what didn't work for me though. Trying to roleplay like an extrajudicial agent of the overlord in Tyranny was what I expected would work the best going in, but actually playing the game that way made me bounce off it hard because I felt I was just playing as the tool of some humongous rear end in a top hat with my only choice being which rear end in a top hat. I was only able to enjoy the game and invest myself in the world after I went for the full "gently caress this nonsense, I am a heroic RPG protagonist and I will solve all your problems" approach. I'm sure that's individual and I don't want to bias the goonmind before the LP starts so I'm trying to not get into the details of how and why. Rest assured you can be a huge jerk in Tyranny if that's more your style. I was just personally not expecting the Heroic Protagonist path through the game to have the support it does.
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Aug 31, 2020 22:06
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I like this game because it's pretty supportive of how you choose to play. Plenty of times where I said "hey can I do this" and then finding out that yes, I can, and there are appropriate responses and consequences for what I did. Being super vague to avoid spoilers, but the game is fairly reactive and that's something I really crave from games, and it's something Obsidian often tries to deliver. That said, some of the ways you can play aren't really fun or satisfying, and the reactivity has its limits, so I've only fully completed two playthroughs despite starting up a new game four or five times.
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Aug 31, 2020 22:28
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Oh boy oh boy! I loved me some Pillars but my computer is 100% wood so it chokes and dies on entering the first city after the prologue in Tyranny. That said I enjoyed the prologue a lot, so I'm looking forward to see how Cleopatra handles things. As for the choices at hand... Support should be Balanced between the legions. We want that fire sigil. Always be acquiring sigils. All sigils every sigils. Sssssssigiiiiiilllllsss. The magic system in this game absolutely loving owns and having more widgets to tool around with is more better. (Also there's a brilliant thematic/narrative component to the magic system, which I, being A Dumb, 100% did not realize when I played - it took an essay about this game to point it out for me.) We laid down the law in Lethean's Crossing. Iron must flow. Who wants to gently caress around with alloying bronze properly? Not us! We followed that act up with a quick trip to the vdate fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Sep 1, 2020 |
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Sep 1, 2020 00:46
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vdate posted:Oh boy oh boy! I loved me some Pillars but my computer is 100% wood so it chokes and dies on entering the first city after the prologue in Tyranny. That said I enjoyed the prologue a lot, so I'm looking forward to see how Cleopatra handles things. As for the choices at hand... scarlet chorus, fire sigil, letheans crossing, vellum citadel
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Sep 1, 2020 02:22
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Scarlet Chorus because gently caress the Disfavoured. Fire Sigil Always be burning. Lethean's Crossing The Vellum Citadel Because Nerds!
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Sep 1, 2020 11:43
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Scarlet Chorus, Fire Sigil, Apex, Vellum Citadel. Voting insurgent-style, I currently think massively favoring one faction will cause the most future problems in our evil empire. And the Vellum Citadel because it looks the least vital for people, IDK we only get the pictures to decide for that choice.
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Sep 1, 2020 23:17
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Fire Chorus Azure Vellum Azuth0667 fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Sep 4, 2020 |
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Sep 4, 2020 04:57
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Fire Sigil Balanced Apex Vellum Citadel I usually don't vote on LPs but I like this game so I felt the need to participate.
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Sep 4, 2020 15:30
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Voting closed! The balanced rulings and Vellum Citadel won by landslides. The Fire Sigil pulled ahead apparently driven by goons who though Cleopatra might want some actual magic to start the game as a mage. Apex won by one vote, which is great as I can show off Cleo's amazing diplomacy powers. Update tonight in which we actually...start the game!
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Sep 5, 2020 01:10
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Cleopatra Jones and the Unfair Edict Anyway, on to Conquest mode! A lot of people showed up in the thread to tell me what Cleopatra should do, so we need to try to balance out the legions (roughly) and go forth and conquer for Overlord Kyros!  Every time you go to a new place in Conquest the token gets pushed onto the board by the Kyros stick here. It's a nice touch.    We get two of these tokens at every node. I'm going for infiltration here, the other one is fighting on the front lines with the army.  I'm honestly just going to show off the options we take. Most of the options are going to be either favoring the Disfavored or the Scarlet Chorus, either by giving them the good assignments or meditating when they inevitably start bitching at each other over stupid poo poo. This is going to be a running theme in this game.  Moving on!  We have some fire mages.  The Disfavored want us to kill them all, but the Scarlet Chorus want us to turn them over to Nerat so Nerat can absorb their minds and use their magic. We toss the Chorus a bone.  This is a fate worse than death, but we are the bad guys! I want to point out what the game is doing here - it's desensitizing the player to these atrocities their character committed by presenting it in this stylized text adventure section. We don't get graphic executions and crucified victims (yet), but we are just as responsible for these elders' deaths because we gave the order. Well, I am. You all voted based on incomplete information I gave you.   We take the Scarlet Chorus option. The actual event changes based on which of the two events you picked at the start. This game is incredibly reactive.   The little playing piece collapses and we zoom out.  The thread voted to go to Apex, so I omit that choice here.   The mountain nation of Apex, ruled for generations by the Queen of House Vendrien, stood at the heart of the Tiers. No army could bypass the landlocked realm without leaving their flank open to attack. By the second year of the war, the Disfavored and Scarlet Chorus had pushed deep into the Tiers. Elements of both armies were dispatched to conquer Apex. Tunon assigned you to accompany them, tasked with bringing Kyros' law to the territory as well as keeping an eye on both armies.  We have a bunch of water mages I turn over to Nerat to make future sigil acquisition a bit easier.  I'm sure this will never come up again.  We are going to help out the Disfavored here because we need to balance our rulings.  The Scarlet Chorus is all in favor of bloodshed but they also just kind of throw trash peasant hordes at problems. Somehow this actually wins them fights against disciplined, well-equipped opponents and they never manage to run out of peasants in the Bronze Age world where an entire peninsula with multiple nations has a population of "thousands".  This is the Cleo option. The Scarlet Chorus option is taunting the Queen of Apex until she challenges you to a duel and then killing her.   Thus ends Apex. The goons picked Vellum Citadel as their last destination, so we will go there for the last year of the conquest.    The Vellum Citadel was an archive and library of massive scale. Its inhabitants were known as the School of Ink and Quill, a circle of mages that, centuries ago, carved out their own mountainous refuge on lands unsettled by the other major realms. Legends said that the Citadel housed a treasure trove of arcane knowledge. The Overlord's spies infiltrated the school and confirmed as much. The time was ripe to send a detachment to the great library fortress, and force the scholars to yield to Kyros.  A detachment of Kyros' army marched on the Vellum Citadel expecting an orderly surrender. As they neared the main gates, a blast of arcane energy struck the commanders dead. Suddenly the highest ranging officer alive, Kyros' forces looked to you for the next steps. The call weighed on your mind, as it had an immediate influence on soldier losses. Oh, this is a fun one! Instead of picking which army to favor, you pick which army to thoroughly piss off by throwing them into the meat grinder to hold off the enemy. No, you can't send a mixed detachment, gently caress you!  This is also politically the safest option - Nerat views his soldiers as expendable trash while Graven Ashe actually cares about the Disfavored.  Unfortunately we can't really replace Disfavored for reasons that will be shown after the conquest.  The Disfavored learned of a hidden enemy enclave, and sent scouts to locate it. They never returned from their mission. The remaining Disfavored soldiers demanded that you send the Scarlet Chorus to retrieve their scouts, but the Scarlet Chorus flatly refused to fall into the same trap. They recommended that the scouts be treated as wartime casualties.  We send the Scarlet Chorus out anyway.  Anyway, it's time to end the conquest by showing how powerful Kyros is.  Crestfallen by the preferential treatment you showed the Disfavored, the Scarlet Chorus retreated deeper into the mountains - leaving your detachment with a skeleton crew. Tunon sent word that Kyros' patience had run thin - the Overlord would cast an Edict of Fire on the enemy. The parchment arrived in a slender case of engraved iron. Written on it, the words of a spell powerful enough to destroy the Vellum Citadel. You had the chance of when to read the Edict. Reading it at sunrise would offer your enemies no warning of the devastation to come. You could also wait until sunset, giving them ample time to flee or make amends. Yea, I kinda messed up the balance a little by thinking the Chorus icon meant Chorus. We can fix this. Sorry, crazy murder peasants.  I, uh, gently caress up again here and apparently completely missed that the Chorus was "crestfallen".  of the enemy fortress. Kyros' will be done.  RIP Sages.  The armies of Kyros left the devastation of the Vellum Citadel in silence. From that day forward, the Tiers came to know the once-noble citadel as the 'Burning Library'. This was an undisputed loss - of resources, knowledge, culture, and life. But a message had been sent: the Overlord will not tolerate defiance. You didn't have long to rest before Tunon called you into service once more. You were one of the last to depart from the mountains, and as you journeyed off, you spotted a few campfires in the mountains. They were mere specks, dwarfed by the inferno, the last gasps of survivors, or perhaps looters from Kyros' armies bored and daring enough to pick through the ashes. We are given the option to replay the conquest again, but we have a whole game to get through.   This is how you got butchered without mercy in antiquity.   In summary: Either Ashe and Nerat stop bitching and work or Kyros kills everyone with a magical explosion. Don't think about it too hard.  Cleo's reward for loyal service is Kyros telling her she's expendable. This is entirely keeping with how tyrants have treated their "friends" throughout history.   By transitioning from stylized propaganda art to the realistic 3D Unity models, the game is telling us that we are returning to reality now instead of the sanitized narrative of Kyros' conquest. It's a little fuzzy given who our narrator is (though we know she's obviously with the Tiers instead of Kyros) but now we actually get to get our hands dirty.  The game is going to throw tutorials at me, and I'm going to click the X to make them go away.  Here we see Tyranny in a nutshell. We're doing some legitimately great things here, and some bad things. I absolutely adore the little models in dialogue, because the developers can make them so expressive by having them gesture and convey the mood of the conversation instantly. On the other hand, the Tyranny devs have fallen into the trap of "describing poo poo we can clearly see" like Aurora giving us the salute that her model is obviously giving us.  The other great thing Tyranny does is let you click the hyperlinks to get explanation of any proper noun, so we don't need to have Aurora explain to one of Kyros' judges who Kyros is. It's legitimately great, and I think both Pillars of Eternity and Pathfinder Kingmaker ripped it off. Like I said, this is a game made by people who obviously knew and cared about their craft dragged down by some mistakes. Oh, yes, the Disfavored are vaguely racist and will only recruit from one part of Kyros' empire. There aren't a lot of them either, and it's part of another of the game's running themes that evil fucks itself over. If Graven Ashe had recruited loyal Tiersmen and trained and equipped them as Disfavored he would be in a better position both by denying the Scarlet Chorus recruits and having more soldiers to put down the insurrection. Of course, this would make him a bigger threat to Kyros as well. He already commands a formidable legion of loyal troops who are ultimately loyal to him moreso than Kyros, so I imagine Kyros encourages all this idiocy to maintain control.   : [Lore 20] Can you hear that hum in the air - that glow around the rocks? The avalanche is Kyros' magic - the Overlord has sealed the valley.Always take the skill options, that raises your skills which raises your level which lets you get cool stuff. Also Lore is legitimately awesome, especially for a mage like Cleopatra.  : I come bearing an Edict of Kyros, our soldiers will complete their task or die. Tyranny. Stop it. You have the great model, you have her dialog, please do not describe her slackening posture. : [Subterfuge 20] Your first instinct is to blame the Scarlet Chorus, no wonder Kyros resorts to an Edict to enforce order. What Aurora is not saying is that she realizes Cleopatra could have her killed for this poo poo.   Incidentally, the text for oathbreakers: Oathbreakers posted:In 'honor' of the Vendrien Guard reneging on the surrender of 429, soldiers in both the Disfavored and Scarlet Chorus now refer to these Tiersmen as 'oathbreakers'. It is, perhaps, one of the few points of agreement between the Disfavored and Scarlet Chorus. TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
 So, we have our first tutorial combat, but I want to talk a bit about the conversation with Aurora. She's the first person you talk to in the game, and she sets up both who your character is and how life in Kyros' Empire works. Aurora is a loyal soldier of the Empire who put her life on the line and her reward is Kyros threatening her life. Her indignation is enough to overcome her absolute terror at being hauled before Tunon's judgement until she realizes that Cleopatra could have her executed for treason against the Overlord. Now, you might notice that Aurora's perspective might be somewhat useful for someone like Cleo coming in from the outside trying to resolve whatever's going on, and that the Disfavored troops blame the Scarlet Chorus is actually pertinent information for anyone trying to get the armies to work together. For all we know she's right and it actually IS the Scarlet Chorus' fault. Unfortunately rather than listening to her we drive her away and we can see her desperately trying to prove her loyalty by yelling loudly about Kyros.  Thanks to setting the Bastard City on fire we have this lone spell. It's a fire spell with a two meter range, that does a bit of fire damage and also sets people on Magefire. What does that do?   Damage over time and people start flailing wildly and skip their turn. It's a DOT stun, it rules!  That hit chance. Nice.  Unfortunately our way to the next combat zone is blocked by a boulder, and Aurora tells us we're going to need to squeeze through.  Because we have 30 Athletics, we can just push the boulder onto this guy, instantly killing him and saving us the time of hacking through his giant pile of HP.  Remember kids, riots give you magical powers!  Nothing interesting happens in this fight because it's the tutorial and these guys are flammable.  Oh, who are you? Scarlet Furies are the Scarlet Chorus elite.   : [Join the battle] Save something for me. This gets us tutorial combat, but Verse here is our first party member.  More idiots get set on fire.   : You fight like a storm. What's your role in the army? : A Scarlet Fury - one of the elite killers of our ignoble gang. You'll see more than a few of us around camp, but don't let that fool you. We're a rare breed.: Most of the 'soldiers' in the Scarlet Chorus are little more than farmers and children armed with rusted forks. Makes them easier to control. : Why are the Vendrien Guard attacking now? : [Join the battle] I'm ready if you are. We are an RPG character, Verse. We also live in a preindustrial society where armor is rare and valuable so stealing it is an excellent idea. : I see your point. Nice and practical.  TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
Before we let Verse and Cleopatra revel in their mutual bloodlust on their eternal quest for loot and XP, I want to show off the magic system.  We took this off one of the dead Vendrien guard soldiers. This lets us upgrade all our spells for an addition 2 meters of range. Now, none of those guys were mages, so I assume the guy who had it was carrying it to propose to his sorceress girlfriend by getting her something nice and we ruined everything. Oh well, all in a day's work for the secret police.  The way spellcrafting works in this game is awesome. You have two mandatory components: a Core, like the fire sigil we picked up in the conquest, and an expression like Focused Intent up there. We will be getting more of each of these this very update. The scroll we just picked up was an accent, and we can layer those all over our spells to add things like faster cooldowns, more damage, a bigger AoE, or unique effects that do silly things. The downside is that the more accents you add (and the more complicated your expression is), the more lore you need to use the spell. We will be raising Cleo's lore like it is awareness of breast cancer.  Verse also has enough lore to cast the spell, so...there you go. You're a wizard, Verse. Try to use the power responsibly.  Before Verse can revel in her newfound power these guys run up.  And...now we have a clash between the image of the low-held falx and the description here.  Look, our Conquest choices are showing up already! This is going to be a recurring pattern, as we run into the people we aided or ailed during the conquest and they react appropriately. : Drop your weapon and perhaps we can settle this without bloodshed. You might notice we've gained favor with the rebels. This might come in handy later on. : Fatebinder - did I hear that correctly? Maybe you misunderstand why we're here. : As he signals his men to charge, the sound of chanting rises from the south, drawing his attention.: "Scarlet Chorus reinforcements! Hurry!" : "Hold position, all of you! You there - keep to the path!" The warrior gestures along the canyon trail, but his soldiers turn their attention to the Scarlet Chorus, roaring challenges.: "No! Don't engage them, we need to run!" His orders falling on deaf ears, the warrior reluctantly readies his weapon. This isn't a long fight. The two guys at the bottom get overwhelmed by the mage and her trash pack, but there's no rest for the wicked unfortunately.  You know, all those "glare silently" dialogue options are beginning to make a lot of sense.   : "Skewer him! Worry not for me, Graven Ashe will protect!" The Disfavored officer winces, blood seeping from the seems of his bracers and cuirass.   : [Conquest] I'm Cleopatra Jones, my name should be known to you, and it should be an honorable one. Please, give me the knife. I can't think of a better screenshot that shows how hosed up this offensive has gotten.  : I offered that man mercy and you made a liar out of me. Ah, yes, there's that Disfavored racism. : The fault lies with the oathbreaker for forcing our hand. Just clean up this mess. : The warrior nods, clapping her gauntlet to her breastplate in salute. "At once!": "Kyros be praised! That oathbreaker fought with the rage of Cairn himself!" Drastus slides a trembling hand along the cut on his neck. "Thank you Fatebinder, I thought today was my last."  If you take the second option the Disfavored get even more pissed at you. The green text, incidentally, states that most Northern Imperials (like the Disfavored) can't read, but that the nobles of the Tiers absolutely can and have been using this to pass along messages the Disfavored can't decipher. It's hilarious, as if you go back one screen the Disfavored soldier is screaming about "mongrels" but their commander is incapable of reading a simple letter - and they can't actually learn to read because that's conceding that the "mongrels" are better than them at at least one thing. : [Examine the parchment] : Recruitment material - they were trying to bring more traitors to the fight.: "Well from the look of it, we kept them from slipping out of the valley. Whatever they hoped to accomplish, I think their plan died here."This is the game indicating that the Disfavored are idiots blinded by racism. Remember, the Disfavored can't read and their enemies are distributing recruitment pamphlets. The rebels could be giving these to random merchants with instructions to lie and say that they're shipping manifests or romance novels or whatever and Kyros' army would have no idea that the merchant is blatantly a rebel recruiter because they can't read! If we'd taken the right encounters at the Vellum Citadel we'd see that the Disfavored enjoy burning books. We didn't find a rebel scribe or a rebel printing press, we found some pamphlets on a courier team and Drastus is painting it as a glorious victory that crushed the rebel plan forever. : The Archons are expecting you. When you're ready, leave by the gate to the southeast, and follow the trails downslope for a few hours - you'll see the camp fires leagues away - can't miss it.TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
I'm cutting the update here, as it's gotten really long. Suffice to say I'm impressed with how well Tyranny is holding up to my analysis - it's actually laying out what it has to say early on, but it's not beating the player over the head with it or anything. This intro tutorial map is giving us all kinds of juicy information: -Despite being a comrade who fought in the war with us, Aurora still has to kowtow to us because we can arbitrarily have her killed and is too terrified to offer her legitimate opinion that the Scarlet Chorus is loving things up. The Scarlet Chorus confirms her opinion by literally cheering for allied troops to be killed. -Kyros is a bad leader who relies on literal magic to keep their troops in line, and is so terrible that when Aurora asks "why is Kyros killing their own loyal troops" we literally cannot provide a good answer -The Scarlet Chorus, despite being led by an individual called "the Archon of Secrets", is an undisciplined rabble that cannot stop killing long enough to act as an occupation force. They have the numbers to be a serious threat, but squander this on idiotic human wave tactics because the Archon is unable to impose military discipline and cannot effectively train them into a useful army (unlike, say, Hannibal). -The Disfavored are blinded by their racism against the Tiersmen to the point where their enemy shows up with easily concealable propaganda they can't actually decipher and stop, and they declare victory because they stopped one squad from spreading a handful of pamphlets. Despite being Kyros' elite they will throw military discipline out the window the minute they feel challenged at the top of the racial hierarchy. Go look at how angry they became because their commander got beat by a Tiersman. It captures racism perfectly - the racists simultaneously need to believe they are inherently better, but also need to keep their victims down. If the racists actually were better somehow they wouldn't need to actually oppress their victims and ban them from reading and whatnot, they would just rise to the top on merit. The American South banned slave literacy because they recognized a literate black man like Frederick Douglass would be on par with their elite, but they also tried to convince themselves they were inherently superior because of who hosed whom. This leads to cognitive dissonance, which we see perfectly with Drastus convincing himself this was a glorious victory that made Kyros' armies look strong when in actuality they killed 12 dudes when in reality it showed that the Tiersmen were willing to fight, better organized, as heavily armed as the Disfavored (early iron weapons are worse than bronze), and have a better communications system. This further fucks the Disfavored because every loss at best requires reinforcements from the homeland and at worst is irreplaceable because they're literally too racist to recruit Tiersmen, and they will take losses because they can't interact with the locals. We'll see if the game sticks the landing! TheGreatEvilKing fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Sep 5, 2020 |
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Sep 5, 2020 07:33
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: Fatebinder! It's been a while! Thank Kyros you made it to us, I thought you were sealed outside the valley.
: Ok, so I have this hostage, so now you're going to back off or I stab him.
:: STABBING TIME!
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The start of this game is really good and it's going to be interesting how they manage to just piss it all out the window
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Sep 5, 2020 08:54
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Crane Fist posted:The start of this game is really good and it's going to be interesting how they manage to just piss it all out the window
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Sep 5, 2020 09:24
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I consider this the best of Obsidian's isometric RPGs despite the flaws, sod the haters  Kinda disappointed we went for Peacemaker, though- mind you, it might be irrelevant considering our choices further down the road, but still, I've found the most fun playing this to be immersing myself in the role of being Kyros's hand.
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Sep 5, 2020 09:48
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We see already what a good start this is. Characterization is strong, and it has already made the PC perform several unspeakable atrocities as a matter of establishing backstory, showing that there are no innocents, unblemished heroes in this war. One thing that threatens the characterization of the eponymous tyranny, though, is how this extreme, cartoonish evil seems to go hand in hand with absurd incompetence. Enough of this could stretch credibility that this was an army capable of world conquest, as opposed to idiots empowered by writer fiat.
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Sep 5, 2020 10:12
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I don't remember all the details of Graven Ashe's powers but I think he literally can't recruit outside of his homeland. Without that personal connection to the North no one he recruits would have his protection, and without it his troops are no more durable than your average Chorus grunt.anilEhilated posted:It's... mostly not that bad, IMO; hell, this is making me want to reinstall it. Most players don't notice the biggest problem with Tyranny until they finish it and go "ok that was cool but where's the rest of the game?" Also combat being entirely based around waiting for cooldowns is pretty crummy.
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Sep 5, 2020 10:21
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Most players don't notice the biggest problem with Tyranny until they finish it and go "ok that was cool but where's the rest of the game?"
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Sep 5, 2020 10:22
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Wicked Them Beats posted:I don't remember all the details of Graven Ashe's powers but I think he literally can't recruit outside of his homeland. Without that personal connection to the North no one he recruits would have his protection, and without it his troops are no more durable than your average Chorus grunt.. This already feels like spoilers, so... Yes, BUT. Given how being an Archon, and their powers and related stuff works in the universe, you could make an argument that this is only because of his/his legion's racist attitudes.
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Sep 5, 2020 11:46
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:Oh, this is a fun one! Instead of picking which army to favor, you pick which army to thoroughly piss off by throwing them into the meat grinder to hold off the enemy. No, you can't send a mixed detachment, gently caress you! Yeah, some of the choices are really great. IIRC, in one of them You can pick to sacrifice both armies, pissing them both off, but getting one area in the game to be different. Cosmetics only though. TheGreatEvilKing posted:
This feels the same way that running into refactoring leftovers does. You start with a simple solution you can implement quickly (describe what happens in text), then you find time to do a better one (portraits), but don't have the time allocated to go back and clean things up (remove the descriptions, or at least pare them down). ------- Also how dare you pronounce the edict without warning. Are you an evil rear end in a top hat? 
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Sep 5, 2020 11:51
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Xarn posted:Also how dare you pronounce the edict without warning. Are you an evil rear end in a top hat? Yes.
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Sep 5, 2020 15:36
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Xarn posted:This already feels like spoilers, so... Yes, BUT. Given how being an Archon, and their powers and related stuff works in the universe, you could make an argument that this is only because of his/his legion's racist attitudes. At the risk of turning the thread into a CIA document: That raises the question: without the pride in his homeland and the obsessive belief in the superiority of the North and their version of soldiering, does Ashe ever develop into an Archon? The ideas that founded his connection to his soldiers are what transform the bond between him and his soldiers into a magical pact/geas. Literally magic racism that is so deeply entrenched that it warps reality and becomes fact. In fact, you could argue that if he ever started recruiting outside the North it would potentially dispel the driving myth that backs his powers, though I don't know that the game ever provides an example of an Archon's power weakening (the commentary being that ideas are powerful and quickly grow beyond our ability to control or direct them).
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Sep 5, 2020 16:53
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Okay question... Is this deep analysis due to your multiple playthroughs or am I just a dumbfuck? I got literally nothing of that in depth thought process when I played through. It makes sense, but maybe I'm just too easy going and trusting.
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Sep 5, 2020 19:10
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Wicked Them Beats posted:I don't remember all the details of Graven Ashe's powers but I think he literally can't recruit outside of his homeland. Without that personal connection to the North no one he recruits would have his protection, and without it his troops are no more durable than your average Chorus grunt. That's not true. They have better armor and gear.
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Sep 5, 2020 19:16
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Don't Graven Ashe's troops use iron instead of bronze?
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Sep 5, 2020 19:28
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MonsterEnvy posted:That's not true. They have better armor and gear. They also have legitimate combat training and officers schooled in actual tactics. They're illiterate, yes, but they're dumb in specific ways and quite intelligent in others. The person who compared the Chorus to a Khornate cult is dead on, imo.
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Sep 5, 2020 19:38
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It's probably that they don't know how to read the local language, given that understanding written orders is a vital skill for (professional) soldiers and officers. Which, again, ties into the racism angle - why would they need to read anything these barbarians put out?
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Sep 5, 2020 19:43
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Isn´t the whole illiterate angle a part of the Bronze age-esque setting? The only people who gets an education are ones who are deemed important and/or rich people.
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Sep 5, 2020 20:26
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Regarding illiteracy, Sylphosaurus is correct. It's not common in the setting. The game says explicitly that the Tiersmen nobles are educated, so the two captains we killed were probably literate but the rest of the Vendrien Guard probably wasn't. I need to go back and put that in the update as there was some confusion over professional soldiers being unable to read. mortons stork posted:One thing that threatens the characterization of the eponymous tyranny, though, is how this extreme, cartoonish evil seems to go hand in hand with absurd incompetence. Enough of this could stretch credibility that this was an army capable of world conquest, as opposed to idiots empowered by writer fiat. I get what you're saying (and this will probably become a bonus update) but the incompetence of the armies is a feature, not a bug. Remember, Kyros is a tyrant first and foremost. The Scarlet Chorus and Disfavored are not out here fighting because they believe Kyros' peace is truly beneficial for the world or to protect their homelands Graven Ashe and the gang are Disfavored because they originally beat the poo poo out of Kyros' armies to protect their homeland, but because Kyros will kill them if they don't. Talking with the troops they are more loyal to Ashe and Nerat than Kyros and you can bet actual money this comes up later so keeping the armies weak is a feature, not a bug. Look up how the Russo-Finnish war went after Stalin purged all the competent military officers. The Soviets WON because Finland would never be able to overcome the entire Soviet Union, but they inflicted far more casualties on the Soviets.* Kyros has been at this for 400 years, the conquest of the tiers is an inevitability as Kyros can keep pulling in armies from the rest of the continent. However, sending a hypothetical version of Graven Ashe and Nerat who were friends, had literate troops, and actually used a combined battle plan of the Chorus spies and mages backed by the Disfavored phalanx recruiting local Tiersmen to join the army? That's a bigger threat to the Overlord than a free Tiers could ever be. There may be some more explanation as we go through the game as well. *For an ancient example, look at the adventures of Julius Caesar. This was more pronounced in Julius and Augustus' successors, as the Caesars could expand the empire as they had subordinates who actually trusted and liked them.
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Sep 5, 2020 21:05
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My cursory reading is also that literacy was more widespread than this at least among the Romans, though it's hard to get hard evidence of what literacy rates were among the lower classes. But there's a lot of say, surviving Roman graffiti and so forth, and ancient sources are almost all aristocrats who tend to disdain the lower classes, so it's likely literacy was reasonably widespread at least into the middle classes. Of course, this is a fantasy game heavily influenced by a long-lived tyrant who no doubt benefits from low literacy among the classes they oppress, so there's no particular reason to think the actual bronze age is a good guide to what this world should be like.
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Sep 5, 2020 21:11
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Donkringel posted:Okay question... Is this deep analysis due to your multiple playthroughs or am I just a dumbfuck? I got literally nothing of that in depth thought process when I played through. It makes sense, but maybe I'm just too easy going and trusting. I'm spending 4+ hours on these text updates and transcribing from screenshots. You're not a dumbfuck, the average course of playing one of these games doesn't actually encourage you to delve into the text that deeply. I didn't realize most of this stuff myself until I sat down and did the update.
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Sep 5, 2020 21:14
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:I'm spending 4+ hours on these text updates and transcribing from screenshots. You're not a dumbfuck, the average course of playing one of these games doesn't actually encourage you to delve into the text that deeply. I didn't realize most of this stuff myself until I sat down and did the update. Thank you for all the effort that you’re putting into this. I found the game’s premise and writing intriguing but the gameplay a bit tiresome so never saw it all the way through. Your LP of this has been great
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Sep 5, 2020 21:37
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Radio Free Kobold posted:It's probably that they don't know how to read the local language, given that understanding written orders is a vital skill for (professional) soldiers and officers. Which, again, ties into the racism angle - why would they need to read anything these barbarians put out? Because they might be secretly plotting against you, allowing them to use low treachery to undermine your superior troops who would "obviously" never lose in a fair fight. Because they could be releasing false histories without your knowledge, claiming their ancient ancestor was building roads due to her divine nature, rather than the "truth" that she made a pact with the devil to conduct racial purges? Because words are one of the most powerful weapons, doubly so in a setting with belief based magic, and ignoring them is intentionally going unarmed? You don't need to stop being racist to treat the enemy seriously. You just need to acknowledge they can harm you.
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Sep 5, 2020 22:05
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The spell making in this game is a ton of fun, and it's why Lore is the god stat and this is actually Wizard Simulator.
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Sep 5, 2020 22:15
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chiasaur11 posted:Because they might be secretly plotting against you, allowing them to use low treachery to undermine your superior troops who would "obviously" never lose in a fair fight. I mean the Disfavoured response to this seems to be literally "hey nice words, you book reading rear end bitch, let's see you write your way out of a sword in the face" so this would probably be a pretty hard sell to them
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Sep 5, 2020 22:39
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Cythereal posted:They also have legitimate combat training and officers schooled in actual tactics. They're illiterate, yes, but they're dumb in specific ways and quite intelligent in others. The protection given by Graven Ashe also heals their wounds quickly. As shown by the soldier who you find with his guts hanging out but by the end of the encounter if you go talk to him again he's standing up and is like, "See, told you I'd be ok." I really, really, really wish this game had been longer. It's so incredibly rich with lore and some of the surprises they throw in to dialogue that you might not catch are really good.
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Sep 6, 2020 03:00
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I'm glad that I'm reading this LP because I've played the prologue of this game at least three times before getting paralyzed by indecision and/or finding something else to do and I never realized that the Disfavoured were actually illiterate and mostly(?) incompetent. My take-away before reading this LP was always that the Scarlet Chorus was just a generic Chaotic Evil lunatic baddies faction while the Disfavored were the more or less competent Lawful Evil ones who were being continually dragged down by their lunatic 'allies' and overall smaller number of soldiers. Goes to show how important it is to properly read things I guess.
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Sep 6, 2020 10:43
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Keep reading the LP
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Sep 6, 2020 10:49
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I see this is the typical Obsidian thing of very strong first impression combined with dense-as-gently caress writing from the get-go.
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Sep 6, 2020 10:59
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I really like the Disfavored compared to the Chorus. Sure, they're racist assholes, but they're a medieval-ish military force in a evil fantasy empire.
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Sep 7, 2020 00:26
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Cleopatra Jones and the Law of Kyros Last time on Tyranny, we discovered the evil Overlord Kyros had sent us with a death warrant to get the Disfavored and the Scarlet Chorus working together, and that this rebellion was far more capable than anyone actually bothered to tell us. Oh well, maybe the dead enemy commander had something cool on him.  Oh, this bracelet is nice, but what's that Sigil?  Nice! This lets us go from derpy single target touch fire spell to AoE fireball dot stun. This is great!  Verse is unfortunately too dumb to cast it, but as a cool and smart fatebinder we have two spells now, so we have two separate cooldowns. This game doesn't have a manabar or anything, all magic is just cooldowns. The end result is that we try to get as many spell slots known as we can (Cleo has 4 and Verse has 2) and we just rotate through all our spells to keep people permastunned/paralyzed/on fire/whatever.  Oh boy, the Scarlet Chorus and the Disfavored are having a dispute. Unfortunately as a Fatebinder Cleo's job is to resolve this poo poo, so in we go.  Remember, Drastus is always wrong. Killing family members never stops conflict in honor cultures like, say, a bronze age warrior noble.  : "All must be given a chance to find absolution in service to the Scarlet Chorus." The mage points a finger at the Disfavored officer. And you know full well this has always been our way. He has a chance to be slave or soldier - only then do we feed him to the pigs."It will surprise no one to learn the Scarlet Chorus is having a problem with Tiersmen deserters.  Ok, Drastus, I will grant you this once - this is an actual problem. You can go back to being wrong now.  Well, poo poo. : [Conquest] What gives? Last I was here, the Disfavored showed a little more mercy to the enemy. Here we are. Neither of these options are good and twenty minutes from now this will bite us in the rear end. Our options are to return him to the easily escapable Scarlet Chorus where he can escape and provide intelligence to the enemy, or execute him and make him a martyr. gently caress it, we pissed off the Disfavored most recently so let's curry favor. : Execute the oathbreaker. One chance to surrender is enough. : "I won't keep you here any longer, Fatebinder - I know you have important business in the valley." Drastus salutes you, his iron gauntlet rapping against his breastplate. "For the glory of Kyros." The screen fades to black, but if you're playing it on PC you get the "A Slow Death" achievement with a picture of a man in Vendrien Guard armor getting impaled on a spike.  TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
Now, back in the Bronze Age failing to abide by a surrender agreement would get you killed. That said, the game is trying to tell us something here. Cleopatra, despite wielding a lot of power as a Fatebinder, is not free, and only has the ability to mediate between terrible ideas presented by the Disfavored and Scarlet Chorus instead of being able to command them to work together and say, put Tirel in a prison camp and use him as a hostage to compel good behavior (something Caesar did all the time). We don't have good options on team Kyros. Oh well. I discovered something funny on this map. You see, there's a merchant here I literally just discovered on this playthrough. Do they have anything good?  It's the lightning sigil! Remember how I warned everyone that if we took this at character creation we were screwing ourselves out of a talent? It's worse than that, we can buy the lightning sigil on the first map of the game before going to the Archons' camp. Now, you might be thinking this is something we can't afford and have to grind money for to come back later. Nope. We can afford it by selling all the heavy bronze armor we looted off the Vendrien Guard to the quartermaster, and have 5 gold Kyrosbux left over. He's got some other Sigils I am going to have to come back for.  We want this guy for our CC effects.  This is also pretty great but I need 5 Kyrosbux for another Core Sigil in the near future.  Using our new lightning sigil we can teach Cleopatra this cool spell, which blasts a small area of effect with lightning that damages and stuns people. So, yes, we can fill the entire cooldown bar with CC spells. We don't have enough to permastun people early game, but we'll get there, oh yes.  We will also be coming back for this chest which has a fairly powerful sigil in it.  We need to go to the Disfavored camp to meet the Archons. I'm sure they'll be happy to take our advice.  Oh, hi Verse. What's up? : What's that? : [Subterfuge 32] Did the Voices of Nerat ask you to spy on me? : Well, are you even surprised? He's the Archon of Secrets. Knowing in advance is his business. So is snatching up any advantage over Graven Ashe. Those two compete like a couple of new recruits for a spot around the fire.So Verse reports directly to the Voices of Nerat and has just confirmed that the enmity between the two legions is straight from the top. She's making it sound like Nerat's priorities are stopping Graven Ashe and then the rebels, in that order.  I'm sure Verse is completely trustworthy and has no mental issues. : I'm here to deliver an Edict from Kyros.We already told Aurora.  : The Archons must claim Ascension Hall by Kyros' Day of Swords, or all will perish. : What else has the Voices of Nerat told you? : Why so suspicious? Ominous!  : Why do you think the Archons are at odds?: "I've been with the Scarlet Chorus since the early days of the conquest, so I can say it's been building for a few years now. There's an energy about those two - like a pair of storms moving to collide." : By my authority, the Archons will fall in line.If you take the first option it scares the poo poo out of Verse.   : I really ought to be meeting with the Archons. : "One last thing... be careful around these Disfavored types. They take their work seriously, and most have suffered too many blows to the head."TheGreatEvilKing summary posted:
We can take away that things are worse than we thought. This isn't some recent quarrel that can be solved by one of the Archons apologizing, this is some old feud that got dragged into the conquest and boiled over as the two Archons were forced to work together. The complete lack of cooperation between the Chorus and the Disfavored we saw was because of the Archons, not in spite of their efforts to control their armies. It's a mess.  I'm pointing out the gate guard because he's another guy who reacts to the Conquest. If we'd fought with the Disfavored at the gates of the Bastard City we could give him the Disfavored salute along with "Graven Ashe protects" and he'd recognize us as a cool dude. As it stands...  We picked the Edict of Fire, which scares the poo poo out of this guy because it's a nuclear weapon against people who don't even have steel swords. He tells us to go in and points us to the war tent. I'm putting it off to do a few things first.  This guy is a merchant who works with the Disfavored. He is from the south of Kyros' empire, but he sticks around because he trusts Tunon and Kyros' laws to protect him from racism.  That said, the game doesn't hesitate to throw in that even the favored merchant patronized by the Archon of War is absolutely terrified of running afoul of Kyros' law. Whatever, let's see what he's got.  Sweet! I saved enough money from the tutorial area loot, so we get to start the game with the lightning and ice sigils. Aren't you glad we didn't pick them in character creation?  Frozen, unfortunately, is just a big slow. We can add a stun effect to our ice spells later. It kind of rules. We learned more wizardry in the last 10 minutes of gameplay than it's possible to ever learn in character creation. I love RPGs sometimes. Instead of going to the war tent to continue Cleo's Very Long and Bad Day, we're going to see what is going on with the Disfavored troops hassling this merchant.   : The Overlord regulates all trade. If you lack the proper permits, your goods are forfeit. : A trade permit? Well how was I... I mean... to whom would I speak for such a thing?The Overlord's armies have been here at least a year. There's no way he doesn't know this.  : Anything to be argued before Tunon may be argued before me. This is bold. Per the developer blog some Fatebinders execute people for making claims they consider frivolous. The fact that this nameless Disfavored soldier is sassing a Fatebinder, who directly enforces Kyros' laws, suggests that fear of Kyros is weakening around here.  : [Subterfuge 32] [Lie] Curious. I was just hearing about a supply caravan of reagents going missing. : Didn't say the shipment went missing around here. And I certainly didn't mention when. Start talking.: "Well I... I suppose some of it's looted." The peddler tosses his hands in the air. "Look, I'm just trying to scrap together an inventory to sell. All the Tiers have been wrapped up in war... forces a man to get creative with his source of wares.": "I found most everything out in the forests of the valley - I'd keep my head low when I heard sounds of combat, then I'd take a look, and grab whatever wasn't claimed by the first victors."  Decisions Lie Before Us! How will we sentence this merchant? For bonus credit justify your answer using what we know of Kyros' laws.
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Sep 7, 2020 01:09
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